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Thread: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

  1. #1
    Ranger 9
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    Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    This YouTube video shows a sort of sleight-of-hand trick for bringing up the G1's "manual focus assist" feature with one finger action.

    Okay, it's kind of trivial, and yes, probably a lot of people have already figured it out on their own, and no, it's not as good as the one-button firmware update we're all hoping for. But it does work! I tried it, and after a few minutes of practice I can do it every time. I used it at a concert shoot last night and it really does make focus assist more accessible.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    That's pretty slick. No, I hadn't tried that but have been doing what someone else suggested--clicking on the left button and the center as I bring the camera to my eye so its ready to MF when I am. Both help, but I may practice this one more--still, it would be nice to have that one button, wouldn't it?

    Diane

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Thanks Ranger9. Good tip and works quite well.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    I'm guessing he's only just started this technique... as there's still some paint on his cursor buttons.

    I'll give our Panasonic contact a call this week for any progress on the requested fast MF assist mod.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    What about a fix for the shutter delay when pressing the shutter button while in MF assist mode?

  6. #6
    ekso
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    This YouTube video shows a sort of sleight-of-hand trick for bringing up the G1's "manual focus assist" feature with one finger action.

    Okay, it's kind of trivial, and yes, probably a lot of people have already figured it out on their own, and no, it's not as good as the one-button firmware update we're all hoping for. But it does work! I tried it, and after a few minutes of practice I can do it every time. I used it at a concert shoot last night and it really does make focus assist more accessible.
    thanks mate. This is a good tip.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Shutter delay fix? Explain

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Really, it is a good tip - but I wouldn't use your thumbnail, unless you want to scratch off the decals on the buttons.

    You can roll your thumb from left to right and it works just as well.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    MONZA...Re...shutter delay scenario

    1. Shoot with out lens
    2. Aperature priority
    3. MF setting
    4. MF assist zone activated
    5. Zone scrolled to desired position
    6. MF zone magnification activated.
    7. Lens focused
    8. Shutter button fully depressed for the eXposure
    9. Unacceptable shutter lag...

    for example... the violinist was in profile and the focus point, and the green praying mantis
    was facing camera...when the shudder button was depressed...but this wuz t' resuLt...



    not [email protected] acceptable result!

    It would be nice to have a fix for this problem...

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    [QUOTE=Y.B.Hudson III;95131]MONZA...Re...shutter delay scenario

    You are right to many actions to perform before pressing the button with action/moving subjects.
    Must be a firmware solution for it, but as someone from Panasonic said before; I don't read the forums.
    We need friends in high places! Brian?

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    I don't perceive any difference in the time between pressing the button and the shutter firing with focus assist (i.e., with a magnified view) or without focus assist (i.e., an unmagnified view.)

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    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Monza...follow my scenario...scroll the focus area to desired position, magnify the area...then cLicK...there is no delay if the focus area remains in the defalt position...

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    OK...since my desired position is always centered, there isn't a delay.

    There is far, far more delay moving the box around, that's when the shot is lost, which is why I don't move the box except if I'm shooting on a tripod.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    I get the delay all the time when having zoomed in the are I want to focus precisely, it doesn't matter if I have moved around it or not. It's the fraction of a second it takes for the camera to go back to the normal unmagnified view before taking the image that is disturbing.

    A fix that let go of the shutter immediately would be fine.

    But... when in magnified view the camera goes to normal view with a halfpress of the shutter. I wish it didn't do that. Normally to get the image, free from camera shake and at the right moment, I halfpress and then take the image.

    When in magnified view this doesn't work. To get the image quickest possible I have to go from no press to to full press in one movement (not good) and to that get the mentioned delay.

    There are a number of other ways this could be handled.

    I wonder if there is anythin gin my setup making for the delay. I'll have to dig into the wonderful and logic menu system and see if I can find anything related.

    regards, /Jonas

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    I don't see any fraction of a second delay in my testing...only if the box is moved. But I rarely if ever move the box, anyway. This is almost a guarantee of missing the moment, unless it's a still life subject.

    Manual focus assist does need some perfecting, I hope Panasonic gets around to it soon.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Ranger, It is a great post.

    Just to add some extra fingers.. (sorry no video, I hope I can convey it in words):

    Mine is a 3 finger operation.

    The thumb as Ranger demonstrated very well.

    The index finger staying atop the shutter trigger.

    The middle finger on the "thumb wheel" (located in the front).

    The thumb does the magnification, the middle finger either enlarges it or one push (yes, you can) takes it back to the non-magnified version.

    The index finger does the deed.

    The discrepancy experience on delay with the half pressing of the shutter comes only from that soft, hesitated half press.

    Push the "thumb wheel" and the shutter- no delay.

    Yes, one can train themselves to do this quickly.

    It works well for me since I use only the LCD (or TFT) for framing/focusing and my other hand is actually cradling the camera in addition to the focusing part.


    Ranger, Nice demo. Oddly (not sure if I had ever met you at all), your voice sounds familiar!

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    I don't see any fraction of a second delay in my testing...only if the box is moved. (...)
    I get a short delay, tried it again. It doesn't mater though if I moved the box or not.
    Camera is set MF, single shot mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    (...)
    The discrepancy experience on delay with the half pressing of the shutter comes only from that soft, hesitated half press.
    Hesitated? I never hesitate. By a quick and firm press all the way down I didn't stop half way thinking click or not click... I just pressed.
    I even trained ckicking and after three or four times I learned how to quickly press the trigger all the way down and let go of it without getting any image at all. The camera hesitates...

    I still wonder if it is a thing with the settings.

    In real life this odean't matter a lot. I adopt by setting the focus and wait for the moment with the screen in normal view. The G1 is pretty slow anyway making me work slight different compared to the Canon SLR.

    regards, /Jonas

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    I have never been in magnified focus assist mode and directly fired the shutter; my process is to focus, half-press, recompose, fire. Since the magnification results in no view of the rest of the frame, I find a half-press to revert to the standard magnification works best for me, to verify the rest of the frame before shooting. (Even so, I can't seem to perceive any delay if I do directly fire the shutter without doing the half-press.)

    Perhaps the change in the subject in this image was due to not seeing the subject move because it was outside the magnified area?



    When the G1 is on a tripod, I've moved the focus assist box around. Sometimes the box moves briskly around the screen, sometimes it's sluggish. Haven't figured that one out yet.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    I have never been in magnified focus assist mode and directly fired the shutter; my process is to focus, half-press, recompose, fire. (...)
    Well, that explains the differing experiences. If you never tried it you didn't suffer from it...

    Your way of working is pretty much the same as mine then. At short distances and large aperture openings I don't refocus of course. No problems. The delay is there when trying to trig the shutter directly when in magnified mode.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    As I mentioned though, even when I tried it (without moving the box) I didn't perceive a delay. After moving the box, I perceived the tiniest of delays.

    Moving the box is what really takes time, so much so that the moment is easily lost.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    As I mentioned though, even when I tried it (without moving the box) I didn't perceive a delay. After moving the box, I perceived the tiniest of delays.(...)
    Sorry, I missed that. Oh well, it's a mystery not very important. I seldom tried to grab anything directly from focusing assist mode.
    Last edited by Jonas; 29th April 2009 at 07:51. Reason: spelling

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    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Yehh, Monza the shot was missed because of the near 1/2 sec delay of the shutter... following my senario...it does occurr in A priority and P priority, it can be avoided by using the AE lock or M mode...I rest my case...now It's up to Panasonic to fix the bug or publish a disclaimer ...

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Half second??? Wow...I have to test this a third time as I haven't seen hardly any delay at all....

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Unable to duplicate this...the AE lock button seems to be the same thing as pressing the shutter halfway (it reverts back to unmagnified view) so I'm not sure how that can be used to avoid a delay. Tried it in M, A, and P, no difference at all...

    I'd like to see this on video. I'd shoot video of my tests, if I could.

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    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    AE lock, A priority, MF assist activated and magnified, lens focused, shutter full press @ 1 sec. on the clock.


    A priority, MF assist activated and magnified, lens focused, shutter full press @ 1 sec. on the clock.


    ... ... My reaction time tests @ 250 millisec. tests were repeated 10 times, representative results* are posted...

    regards hudson


    * actual pics... taken with G1 of laptop screen...
    Last edited by Y.B.Hudson III; 30th April 2009 at 12:50.

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Hmm...interesting website. When I get my G1 back (it's borrowed) I'll try again to see if this can be duplicated...

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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post
    ... ... My reaction time tests @ 250 millisec. tests were repeated 10 times, representative results* are posted...
    I tried, not ten times and averaging, but as I said above I do get a delay when trying to shoot directly from the focus assist mode. The delay I get seem to be shorter, around 200-300 msec.

    That is a quarter of a second and I definitely notice it. It doesn't matter if I moved around the zoomed area or not.

    --
    Jonas

  28. #28
    Ranger 9
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    Re: Pseudo-one-push manual focus assist for G1

    Yes, the millisecond page is great! Lots of fun experiments are possible with this.

    I couldn't try to duplicate the effect of longer time lag when focus-assist mode is on, because when getting ready to take a picture I habitually take up the slack in the release button; this cancels focus assist.

    However, I was able to try something else that interests me, which was to see what extent it's possible to overcome shutter lag by practice.

    This is common with most physical activities: If you wait to swing your tennis racquet until the ball reaches you, you're going to lose a lot of matches! You have to learn to anticipate -- to predict where the ball will be and start your swing in time to make contact with it. That's part of why practice improves your tennis game: your nerves and muscles get better at anticipating.

    Since action photography also involves nerves and muscles, I figure the same principle should apply. No matter what "shutter lag" figure is computed via instrumented tests, you still have to take actual pictures (usually) by watching the action and then pressing the button with your finger at the proper time. The more you know about the type of action, and the more practice you have photographing it, the better you should be able to get at anticipating the action so the shutter goes off at the right time.

    I also have a theory that a digital camera makes this learning process quicker because it gives you immediate feedback on how far off you are, helping you "groove your swing" to catch actions.

    So, using the spiffy millisecond page, I tried a series of pictures using my Epson R-D 1 -- a camera which should have a short mechanical lag time, and with which I also have a lot of practice -- and also my G1, a camera which is still fairly new to me and which, subjectively, seems to be comparatively "laggy."

    I took a series of 20 shots with each camera, watching the numbers change on the millisecond page and trying to catch the exact moment when 999 milliseconds turned over to zero milliseconds. I scored the results based on how far the captured numbers deviated from zero: negative numbers mean I shot early (too much anticipation) and positive numbers mean I shot late (not enough anticipation.)

    I did 20 trials with each camera, dropped the two biggest outliers from each series, and graphed the rest; the results are attached.

    As you can see, the mean error was smaller with the R-D 1: 36.9 milliseconds vs. 69.0 milliseconds.

    However, the standard deviations are similar, meaning that my results with the G1 varied by about the same amount as the ones with the R-D 1. My biggest "miss" was similar with each camera: 211 ms with the G1, 194 ms with the R-D 1. And the total ranges are similar: 270 ms with the G1, 269 ms with the R-D 1.

    If you look at the bars on the graph, you can see that after my first three tries, my timing with the G1 improved dramatically; as you move toward the right side of the graph, the G1 bars and R-D 1 bars become more similar in length.

    I interpret all this to mean that with more practice, I should be able to learn to shoot peak action with the G1 just about as well as with the R-D 1, even though the G1 is perceptually "laggier." I suppose the next step would be to work my Nikon D300 into the mix... but it's late and my reaction times are probably shot by now...

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