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Thread: has anyone here ever tried this ??

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Hi,

    I still have an SINAR f viewcamera in a big box here. I didn't use it since at least 20 years, but now I see that one can adapt a Nikon camera to it.
    And since I have a way of adapting Nikon lenses to my G1, wouldn't this be the way to use my G1 as a digital back on the SINAR ????

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Moveable-Camera-...0516124008r890

    What should I expect ? Extreme tele-effect (I have two lenses, a 150mm and a 210mm, and considering the crop factor from 4x5 inch to 4/3 )
    Do you think it could focus on infinity ??

    Really, if that would work, that would be great fun and another proof of the immense versatility of the G1.

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Hi,

    I still have an SINAR f viewcamera in a big box here. I didn't use it since at least 20 years, but now I see that one can adapt a Nikon camera to it.
    And since I have a way of adapting Nikon lenses to my G1, wouldn't this be the way to use my G1 as a digital back on the SINAR ????

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Moveable-Camera-...0516124008r890

    What should I expect ? Extreme tele-effect (I have two lenses, a 150mm and a 210mm, and considering the crop factor from 4x5 inch to 4/3 )
    Do you think it could focus on infinity ??

    Really, if that would work, that would be great fun and another proof of the immense versatility of the G1.

    C U
    Rafael
    I'd be interested in something like this also. I haven't used my 4x5 for a few years and still have a nice Rodenstock Sironar S 135. Unfortunately I don't have a wide lens which might be better. Here is another adapter for either Canon or Nikon:
    http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/c..._detail&p=2859

    Carl
    Last edited by scho; 18th May 2009 at 06:48. Reason: add link

  3. #3
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Hi,
    (...)wouldn't this be the way to use my G1 as a digital back on the SINAR ????
    (...)What should I expect ? Extreme tele-effect (I have two lenses, a 150mm and a 210mm, and considering the crop factor from 4x5 inch to 4/3 )
    This is just what I was referring to when I started my other thread about fitting lenses for extremely different sensor sizes to the G1. That 150 should be about a 45mm on 35mm film, and the 210 should be about 65mm. So you'll be using the extreme center of both lenses. I'm very curious to see if the resolution of the lens can manage that kind of abuse !

    Post pictures quickly

    I was thinking today of making a kind of rubber funnel that would hold any lens through friction, including projector and enlarger lenses. It's just a concept and probably won't work in real life, though. But I've been called crazy before when using toilet paper rolls as extenders for macro photography, so why not ?



    Peter.

  4. #4
    elf
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Hi,

    I still have an SINAR f viewcamera in a big box here. I didn't use it since at least 20 years, but now I see that one can adapt a Nikon camera to it.
    And since I have a way of adapting Nikon lenses to my G1, wouldn't this be the way to use my G1 as a digital back on the SINAR ????

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Moveable-Camera-...0516124008r890

    What should I expect ? Extreme tele-effect (I have two lenses, a 150mm and a 210mm, and considering the crop factor from 4x5 inch to 4/3 )
    Do you think it could focus on infinity ??

    Really, if that would work, that would be great fun and another proof of the immense versatility of the G1.

    C U
    Rafael
    One of the big problems fitting DSLRs is the grip sticks out quite a bit. The Nikon adaptor on the G1 should extend out past the grip, so I would expect it to work well. The tilts and swings are much more interesting than shifts (at least to me), so I would also look at adapting other lens from 35mm to MF to the Sinar.

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    One of the big problems fitting DSLRs is the grip sticks out quite a bit. The Nikon adaptor on the G1 should extend out past the grip, so I would expect it to work well.
    I just checked this, and the combination of the DMW-MA1 and the fotodiox Nikon-4/3 adaptor sticks out a few millimeters furthers than the grip.
    So, I would also expect it to be, at least mechanically, adaptable.

    I might well order one today, after all, it's rather inexpensive and could open the doors to a lot of fun

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterLeyssens View Post
    That 150 should be about a 45mm on 35mm film, and the 210 should be about 65mm.
    Huh? A focal length of 150mm is 150mm regardless of the format onto which its image circle is being projected. Given the 4/3 format's 2X multiplication factor, a 150mm lens will have the same angle of view as a 300mm lens (and a 210mm lens will mimic a 420mm lens).

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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Really, if that would work, that would be great fun and another proof of the immense versatility of the G1.
    I successfully used my DMC-L1 as a poor-man's digital back on my Toyo 2x3 and 4x5 view cameras. It does indeed work well enough with longer focal length lenses, but as my vision is such that I tend more toward normal and wide-angle lenses, I wasn't as happy with it as I'd hoped. I also learned that many of what pass as high-resolution lenses for the 4x5 format aren't nearly as high in resolution when used for the 4/3 format. :-(

    That said, except for the stupid grip on the right side of the camera (why, oh why, did Panasonic style the G1 as a faux-DSLR?), the G1 is much better suited to this application than the L1 or any other 4/3-format camera. I haven't yet tried it on my Toyo 2x3, but I think by positioning it vertically and offset-mounting it on the lensboard, I may be able to get the grip to clear the top of the rear standard, giving me more clearance between the rear lens element and the camera body. This is critical, because the biggest problem I had with my L1 in this application was the rear lens element coming into contact with the lens mounting ring before infinity focus was achieved.

    I hope to get around to trying this setup in the next few weeks and will post back once I have.

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Focal length being focal length, what we need to consider is the crop factor !
    and that is "diagonal of 4x5 / diagonal of 4/3" or 162/22.28 = 7.27 !
    (source, and an excellent read : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor)

    Thus, the 150mm lens will have the effect of a 1090mm on the G1 sensor, and the 210mm will look like a 1526mm.

    I bought one adaptor today, so if the combination works well and focusses to infinity, get ready for some decent moonshots

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  9. #9
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Focal length being focal length, what we need to consider is the crop factor !
    and that is "diagonal of 4x5 / diagonal of 4/3" or 162/22.28 = 7.27 !

    Thus, the 150mm lens will have the effect of a 1090mm on the G1 sensor, and the 210mm will look like a 1526mm.
    1526mm what ? You aren't giving your reference bases, so your numbers have no meaning. You should compare apples to apples. Let's convert everything to 35mm EFV and see what the result is.

    If the crop factor between 4x5 and 4/3 is 7.27, then the crop factor between 4x5 and 35mm is about 3.6. Of course, we know 4/3 to 35mm is factor 2.

    When we talk about a 150mm lens, we know it's a tele on a 35mm system. A 150mm lens on a 4/3 will be a tele that's twice as long. But on 4x5, it will be 3.6 times shorter, so it's a wide normal (comparable to about 41.5mm on 35mm EFV).

    The 210mm is a rather long tele on 35mm, a twice as long tele on 4/3 and on 4x5mm a very short tele that's comparable to about 60mm EFV.


    Peter.

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    The basis is 4x5, of course, Peter, I have not been talking about any other format.

    So the picture I will capture on the G1 will look like made with 1090 cq 1526 if it were made on 4x5

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  11. #11
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    So the picture I will capture on the G1 will look like made with 1090 cq 1526 if it were made on 4x5
    Yes, true. I just don't know what to expect from an x mm lens on 4x5, so I convert to 35mm EFV to make it easy on myself. The 210mm will be 420EFV when used on the G1, which gives a FOV of about 6 degrees, which is comparable to a 1500mm lens for a 4x5 camera, indeed.

    Since the moon is half an arc angle, you'll get the moon as about 1/10 horizontally and 1/7 vertically. with the 210mm Not bad If you want it to fill your frame, you'd need a 4/3 lens of about 1200mm, which corresponds to a 2400mm lens on 35mm or a 7750mm lens on a 4x5 camera


    Peter.

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    The only unknown here, Peter, is the role of the MTF of the lenses, so how good will be the image that the optics throw on the G1 sensor

    Will it make sense on a 3000x4000 px sensor ??

    But, it will be a fun experiment

    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  13. #13
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    The only unknown here, Peter, is the role of the MTF of the lenses, so how good will be the image that the optics throw on the G1 sensor
    Exactly ! That's what I meant when I wrote:

    "So you'll be using the extreme center of both lenses. I'm very curious to see if the resolution of the lens can manage that kind of abuse !"

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    But, it will be a fun experiment
    Absolutely ! I'm looking forward to the results as much as you are. Remember that, because the image circle of the 4x5 lenses is much larger than the sensor of the G1, so you can shift it a lot. You'll have to watch the angle of the light, though: if it isn't straight, you may get vignetting.

    If the Oly announcements are good, I will probably get myself one of their mft cameras and start playing around, too



    Peter.

  14. #14
    elf
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    The basis is 4x5, of course, Peter, I have not been talking about any other format.

    So the picture I will capture on the G1 will look like made with 1090 cq 1526 if it were made on 4x5

    C U,
    Rafael
    My Mamiya 645 80mm takes the same image that my Olmpus 40-150mm at 80mm takes. The big difference is that I can shoot a 16+ frame panorama using shifts. The panorama will look very nearly the same as a single image taken with a Mamiy 645.

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    My adaptor arrived today !
    Will try and shoot some pics over the weekend

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Ladies and Gentlemen, we proudly present to you, the first pics of this funny combination !

    Setup : G1 with 4/3 adaptor, then the Fotodiox 4/3 to Nikon, then the nikon to SINAR plate.
    Lens : Rodenstock Sironar-N MC 210mm f5.6
    This lens is in a Copal #1 shutter, but I don't use it here, the G1 determines the exposure



    iso400 1/25 f22




    iso100 1/30 f5.6 (Scheimpflug applied)

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Ladies and Gentlemen, we proudly present to you, the first pics of this funny combination !

    Setup : G1 with 4/3 adaptor, then the Fotodiox 4/3 to Nikon, then the nikon to SINAR plate.
    Lens : Rodenstock Sironar-N MC 210mm f5.6
    This lens is in a Copal #1 shutter, but I don't use it here, the G1 determines the exposure

    iso100 1/30 f5.6 (Scheimpflug applied)

    C U,
    Rafael
    Looks good. Macro with tilt What was distance to the flower and how did the LCD work out for focusing?

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Looks good. Macro with tilt What was distance to the flower and how did the LCD work out for focusing?
    Hi !

    The distance to the flowers was ca 1.5m in both cases.
    The LCD is great for focusing, especially when you combine the 5x magnification with the micro-focusing knob of the SINAR. Other viewcameras might be more difficult (cq shaky), but with the SINAR it's really easy.
    The most difficult part is to find your subject, since you have no more mattglass to find it !

    Also, exposure is really perfect, had to apply almost no corrections.

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  19. #19
    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Interesting Rafael. The photos look very creamy, but attractive with a nice bokeh background. Did you do a lot of sharpening in PP? Would like to see a snapshot of this setup.
    Salut, michiel

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    IDid you do a lot of sharpening in PP?
    Not more sharpening than usual, Michiel.
    Weather permitting (should be OK), I'll do some more tomorrow, and I'll post a few pics of the setup.

    Have a pleasant saturday evening,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    I rigged a makeshift adapter for the G1 on my Tachihara 4x5 using a piece of gatorfoam board with a hole cut in the center to hold my Canon FD to m4/3 adapter. Attached the G1 and put my Rodenstock APO Sironar-S 135mm f/5.6 on the 4x5. Just hand held this assembly together on my desk and took a shot across the room of a table lamp. Easy to focus and reasonably sharp. Problem is the G1 grip which sticks out too far - really need an extension tube on the adapter to get enough clearance to the adapter board. Left side of the image is OOF because the board wasn't square and I didn't apply any swing to compensate. I also don't know if this would focus to infinity for landscape work. If the adapter board is cut long enough it would be quite easy to shift the G1 on the 4x5 and use rise/fall to get multiple rows for stitching.


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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Some more test shots today with the G1+Tachihara 4x5 and Rodenstock APO Sironar-S 135mm f/5.6. Put the homemade set-up on a sturdy tripod and tried a few shots from my deck. Will try some multi-row stitching later this week.

    Self-portrait:







  23. #23
    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    One more: G1+Tachihara+Rodenstock APO Sironar-S 135mm f/5.6 @ f/22


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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Some stitched shots using the G1+Tachihara 4x5.

    Three shot vertical using rise/fall:


    Five shot stitch using the homemade sliding back:


    Four shot vertical using rise/fall:

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Well done, Scho, lovely stitches !

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Well done, Scho, lovely stitches !

    C U,
    Rafael
    Thank you Rafael. I look forward to seeing more from your set-up with the Sinar.

    Carl

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    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    I'm still looking at options for a G1+4x5 stitching platform. Now trying a Shen-Hao sliding back with a Canon EOS mount plus an EOS to m4/3 adapter from RJ. Very nice, compact platform for stitching on a PTB45, but way too much extension. The EOS mount +adapter puts the G1 sensor more than two inches in back of the 4x5 film plane. I think that I can cut the extension down at least by half and get a more comfortable working arrangement. Had to use my Fujinon 240mm f/9 to get this stitch from 8 overlapping frames in portrait orientation.



    Zoomify

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Thank you Rafael. I look forward to seeing more from your set-up with the Sinar.

    Carl
    Me too, I'm anxious to continue on this track, but it has been consistently very windy here for approx 2 weeks. And today, rain is pouring down from the sky
    No way that I can focus the SINAR outside in these conditions

    But, as soon as the wind calms down ......

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  29. #29
    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I'm still looking at options for a G1+4x5 stitching platform. Now trying a Shen-Hao sliding back with a Canon EOS mount plus an EOS to m4/3 adapter from RJ. Very nice, compact platform for stitching on a PTB45, but way too much extension. The EOS mount +adapter puts the G1 sensor more than two inches in back of the 4x5 film plane. I think that I can cut the extension down at least by half and get a more comfortable working arrangement. Had to use my Fujinon 240mm f/9 to get this stitch from 8 overlapping frames in portrait orientation.
    ]
    Here are a couple of shots of the stitching set-up:
    Shen-Hao PTB45 w/ Fujinon A 240mm f/9 lens+Digital Adapter Back w/ EOS Mount+EOS to m4/3 Adapter +Panasonic G1




  30. #30
    elf
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    How is the adaptor fastened to the sliding plate? Could you just replace that piece with the first section (lens mount) from a set of plain extension tubes?

  31. #31
    Super Duper
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    How is the adaptor fastened to the sliding plate? Could you just replace that piece with the first section (lens mount) from a set of plain extension tubes?
    The EOS adapter is just attached to the sliding plate with three small screws and some sticky glue under the flange (not very secure). It is easily removed and now I just need to find a shorter tube to replace it.

  32. #32
    elf
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    This site may have some useful info for you: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/a...ew-camera.html

  33. #33
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    Re: has anyone here ever tried this ??

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    This site may have some useful info for you: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/a...ew-camera.html
    Thanks for the link. Some good tips for this project.

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