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Thread: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

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    Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    HI There
    I've just seen this on dpreview:
    Panasonic M & R adaptors

    I think it's fascinating because it shows that they've realised the great potential of using other lenses with the G1. It also says that they've been made in conjuction with Leica . . . so perhaps they've had a change of heart about m4/3 as well.

    Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Interesting - maybe this also suggests that Panasonic will try to solve the "smearing" problem in the next generation of the G1

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Interesting - maybe this also suggests that Panasonic will try to solve the "smearing" problem in the next generation of the G1
    HI Woody
    I didn't see any smearing in the RAW files (as long as you turned off NR )
    was it just a jpg issue?

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    It is a problem in the corners on wide lenses. I did ask the question when I was at PMA. I was told if they launch an adapter the lenses will work an not produce problematic images. This led me to believe that perhaps the corner problem was related to software corrections in camera. However, I'm not sure how much the rep knew of the issues. It will be interesting to see if it is a "smart" adapter.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    It is a problem in the corners on wide lenses. I did ask the question when I was at PMA. I was told if they launch an adapter the lenses will work an not produce problematic images. This led me to believe that perhaps the corner problem was related to software corrections in camera. However, I'm not sure how much the rep knew of the issues. It will be interesting to see if it is a "smart" adapter.
    HI Terry
    Interesting - when I was using it I was shooting RAW using either standard 4/3 lenses or leica M lenses and converting the RAW files to .dng files (not the huge linear files created when using the panasonic m4/3 lenses). I didn't see the smearing on those.

    I didn't think that lens correction information was included on the non m4/3 lenses (which is why it'll create a standard dng).

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Terry
    Interesting - when I was using it I was shooting RAW using either standard 4/3 lenses or leica M lenses and converting the RAW files to .dng files (not the huge linear files created when using the panasonic m4/3 lenses). I didn't see the smearing on those.

    I didn't think that lens correction information was included on the non m4/3 lenses (which is why it'll create a standard dng).
    Yup, which is why I almost didn't make my post. I guess it will be a wait and see and then test camera/lens/adapter combos.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    It's also interesting that "These adaptors also allow users to use the movable MF assist function, which enlarges the selected area when focusing manually." This sets these adaptors apart from the others on the market. Goodbye to thumb gymnastics!

    There is reference in the dpreview item on a forthcoming information on lens compatibility so let's hope the adaptors are not somehow restricted.

    Martin

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Fascinating. Panasonic seem to have originally marketed these cameras for the usual football moms but given the pricing of the GH-1 and this announcement it looks like they've discovered that there's a much more interesting market to tap into and one with little to no competition.
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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Terry
    Interesting - when I was using it I was shooting RAW using either standard 4/3 lenses or leica M lenses and converting the RAW files to .dng files (not the huge linear files created when using the panasonic m4/3 lenses). I didn't see the smearing on those.

    I didn't think that lens correction information was included on the non m4/3 lenses (which is why it'll create a standard dng).
    Jono,
    I have used a variety of M mount lenses on mine. Before I upgraded to CS4 and had G1 support in Bridge, I converted my files to DNG. I never saw the smearing that was reported by others, even with the CV 28 f/1.9.
    I love the G1 and am so happy that the development continues.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Jono,
    I have used a variety of M mount lenses on mine. Before I upgraded to CS4 and had G1 support in Bridge, I converted my files to DNG. I never saw the smearing that was reported by others, even with the CV 28 f/1.9.
    I love the G1 and am so happy that the development continues.
    HI Cindy - do you mean you still don't see it when using CS4 and Bridge?
    Certainly, it was nothing to do with IQ which drove me away (it was raw support and the EVF). I'm almost certain I'll be around again when the Olympus offering appears.

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by mreddington View Post
    It's also interesting that "These adaptors also allow users to use the movable MF assist function, which enlarges the selected area when focusing manually." This sets these adaptors apart from the others on the market. Goodbye to thumb gymnastics!

    There is reference in the dpreview item on a forthcoming information on lens compatibility so let's hope the adaptors are not somehow restricted.

    Martin
    Just don´t see how they would do it... After all, neither M nor (at least older) R lenses have anything in them that could signal that they´re in the process of being focussed (that is, that the focussing ring is being turned), so no way of activating MF assist automatically. Those lenses that now allow it are all of the focus-by-wire type.

    The only thing they might do is signal the presence of a lens in the mount, so there would be no need to set the "work w/o lens" option in the menu; otherwise they should work like the Novoflex adapter, no more. And so the thumb gymnastics would still be needed.....

    Well, sincerely hope I´m wrong....
    Last edited by Per Ofverbeck; 21st May 2009 at 05:50.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Just don´t see how they would do it... After all, neither M nor (at least older) R lenses have anything in them that could signal that they´re in the process of being focussed (that is, that the focussing ring is being turned), so no way of activating MF assist automatically. Those lenses that now allow it are all of the focus-by-wire type.

    The only thing they might do is signal the presence of a lens in the mount, so there would be no need to set the "work w/o lens" option in the menu; otherwise they should work like the Novoflex adapter, no more. And so the thumb gymnastics would still be needed.....

    Well, sincerely hope I´m wrong....
    I thought the same as you. If you read the wording carefully, It just sounds like how we currently use the lenses.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I thought the same as you. If you read the wording carefully, It just sounds like how we currently use the lenses.
    I thought the same. I don't own any Leica lenses so this is rather moot for me, but if I stick with the m4/3rds format (no reason to suggest I won't) and perhaps even make it my 'main' system in the future, then there's always the possibility I may add other used MF lenses--so I am still interested in whatever is offered. I just don't see how a manual focus as we use on the Panasonic AF lenses could be implemented with an adaptor--but I'm always open to learning something new.

    Diane

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I thought the same as you. If you read the wording carefully, It just sounds like how we currently use the lenses.
    Yes, you are probably right. I was undoubtedly being over-optimistic.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Magic lens adapters! Comes with M8-style microlenses for your sensor.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by mreddington View Post
    It's also interesting that "These adaptors also allow users to use the movable MF assist function, which enlarges the selected area when focusing manually." This sets these adaptors apart from the others on the market. Goodbye to thumb gymnastics!Martin
    I'm not sure I understand how this will work, in fact, how it already works with the kit lens neither.
    Is there some "electronic" between the lens and the camera (through the mount 's connectors) detecting that the focus ring is turned thus activating the MF assistance ?
    Therefore, if I'm not wrong, I just can't see how it could work with a totally mechanical lens...
    Moreover, I don't understand why this MF assist should only work with a dedicated Lumix adapter, whatever the mount used.

    There would be in my opinion a far much simple solution : to have the option (in the menu) to set the MF assist to be actioned only pressing the shutter (instead of keeping exposure), exactly like it already works to quit the MF assist : you press the shutter and go back to full frame.

    Another argument for this : if the MF assist function is automatically activated when you turn your focus ring, then you're obliged to focus with the assistance even if it's not necessary or if you just don't want to.
    When I use my 50Lux (especially wide open), they are many situations where the MF assist is unnecessary and a waste of time.

    Anyway, that would be something to put on top of my wish list.
    Any opinion welcome...

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    The quote from Dpreview is "These adaptors also allow users to use the movable MF assist function, which enlarges the selected area when focusing manually."

    This is the true of all other lens adapters.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    OK, I give in - my dreams are shattered!

    Or, in other words: think before you post, Martin!

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by mreddington View Post
    OK, I give in - my dreams are shattered!

    Or, in other words: think before you post, Martin!
    Don't be downhearted Martin
    All you've discovered is that all converters do the job . . . .
    I must admit, I found manual focusing pretty good on it.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    All you've discovered is that all converters do the job . . . .
    Indeed, Jono, and I'm not complaining! It's great to be able to use M glass at a higher effective focal length. As you and others have said, Panasonic seem to be taking this option seriously.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    I wish they would allow you you to turn on focus assist using the film mode button -- a button I never touch. Seems like it could be reprogrammed easily enough to let you choose the function of a button. Halfway down on the shutter release wouldn't work because you would jump to focus assist every time you tried to take a picture.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    I hope Brian Mosley will comment on this topic. I remember, a while ago, he was gathering some info of user preferences on manual focus lens on G1 to provide some feedback to Panasonic for future improvements.

    Kind regards,

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    it is possible the pano adapter could make electrical contact with the body contacts and thus be detected. none of the aftermarket adapters do this

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieH View Post
    Halfway down on the shutter release wouldn't work because you would jump to focus assist every time you tried to take a picture.
    Ooops ! You're totally right, I didn't think of that (shame).
    But anyway, using that or that other button than the shutter is really a pain for such a fundamental feature : focusing...
    Moreover, there is an ergonomic trick, coming from the computer world, that could perfectly work IMO on a camera button : the double halfway press, like the mouse double click.
    Simple halfway press : keep the exposure ;
    Double halfway press : MF assist on ;
    Re-simple halfway press : MF assist off ;

    May be to complicated or too specific... Or may be because I play piano, it sounds to me like an evidence !

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Certainly an interesting development, especially if Panasonic can add value by having access to the camera's firmware.

    I very much enjoy being able to focus M lenses through the lens and macro is much better than on an M with an OUTRO and a 75mm Summicron or 90mm Elmar.

    I'm interested that others here haven't seen the poor edge performance. The IQ I've seen with a 28mm Summicron is not going to win any prizes... What's your secret??

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by marknorton View Post
    I'm interested that others here haven't seen the poor edge performance. The IQ I've seen with a 28mm Summicron is not going to win any prizes... What's your secret??
    The poor edge performance has been discussed. Sometimes the discussion went a bit strange... as we, as usual, use our cameras for different things and have different demands.

    In short the consensus is that many of the wide angle lenses does produce smeared borders when used with the G1. Here WA is around 28mm and shorter.

    For the 35mm lenses the opinions differ.

    For 50 and longer the consensus seem to be that they all (?) work.

    Then we have exceptions; the CV28/2 Ultron makes ugly smearing (me and Carl). The CV28/1.9 does not (Cindy).

    And then we have all the personal takes on it: I don't see, I see, OK, I see but it doesn't matter, I shoot 16:9 and then it is fine, It is fine at infinity, For dark pub portraits... who cares about the corners, The smearing is obtrusive and so on. In my opinion all valid opinion and reflections - but not always true for everybody.

    BTW; Cosina also make M-mount to µ4/3 adapters. They happily announce the adapters to be compatible with all their lenses...

    Cheers, /Jonas

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Now Photo District News says the Panasonic adapters may not officially make it to the US at all; Panasonic USA is still "studying" whether to carry them or not.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by mreddington View Post
    It's also interesting that "These adaptors also allow users to use the movable MF assist function,
    its interesting wording, I expect that it allows nothing more than the camera functions used by existing adaptors do which can also use the moveable MF assist function. I don't think it will activate 'by wire' as do the electronic lenses.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieH View Post
    I wish they would allow you you to turn on focus assist using the film mode button -- a button I never touch. Seems like it could be reprogrammed easily enough to let you choose the function of a button. Halfway down on the shutter release wouldn't work because you would jump to focus assist every time you tried to take a picture.
    This would be be my preferred option. The film type could be relegated to the main menu, it's not something that needs immediate or frequent access.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by marknorton View Post
    Certainly an interesting development, especially if Panasonic can add value by having access to the camera's firmware.

    I very much enjoy being able to focus M lenses through the lens and macro is much better than on an M with an OUTRO and a 75mm Summicron or 90mm Elmar.

    I'm interested that others here haven't seen the poor edge performance. The IQ I've seen with a 28mm Summicron is not going to win any prizes... What's your secret??
    Yes, it's curious. I can verify that the Zeiss ZM 25 mm (a "normal" FL on m4:3) does indeed smear the edges, and that's one of the reasons I haven't bothered much with Leica M-lenses on the G1. However, R-lenses with their much longer flange/focal distance might work, for instance my 19mm Elmarit-R (which really isn't that great at the edges at FF), the excellent 28mm Elmarit-R or the 180/2 Apo-Summicron would certainly be worth trying.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Now that is something I'd like to see...a G1 mounted on a 180/2 APO-Summicron.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Now that is something I'd like to see...a G1 mounted on a 180/2 APO-Summicron.
    Not only that, I'd throw in the 1,4 Apo converter for good measure

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Let's reverse the logic. If Panasonic wanna produce the adapter with her partner, does it mean Leica will produce a clone G1 in the near future? Will there be something called Glux -1? This is a heritage of the sisterhood in production line. I just wonder there will be a titanium body with a external hand grip as Dlux4.

    It is quite terrible that I can have a Leica M to G1 adapter as low as $68 USD in Hong Kong and of course, higher price for Leica R mount. This move seems so weak to draw attention from G1 fans. I hope there will be a bundle of G1 body + Leica M/R adapter. This should boost the sales.

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    Re: Panasonic and Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by pentacon6 View Post
    Let's reverse the logic. This move seems so weak to draw attention from G1 fans.
    I couldn't quite understand this either. It draws sales away from their micro four thirds lenses which are late in arriving on the market to boot. The 20mm example will have to sell for peanuts if and when they finally release it, as by then supposedly many will have heard of the adapter/second-hand lens route.
    Could it be now that the "marketing-masterminds" at Panasonic have changed track and are thinking way ahead (video) and the simple G1 is just an initial stepping stone to be discontinued shortly to make way for more GH1 type combo-cameras? Could this indeed mean (hopefully)* that the micro four-thirds still camera idea becomes Leica-only territory?

    *hopefully as in quality, not as in Leica prices, alas.

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    Re: Panasonic and Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    I couldn't quite understand this either. It draws sales away from their micro four thirds lenses which are late in arriving on the market to boot.
    It makes perfect sense to me as a way to sell a G1 or GH1 as a supplementary camera to the well-monied gents who already have an extensive M and/or R lens collection. Not everyone is as enthusiastic as we are about reading up on adapters in forums, buying from third-party Chinese vendors, etc; some of those conservative M/R lens owners probably will be more comfortable with a "factory-supported" solution. At any rate, it's easy enough to add the adapters to the product line; if that's all it takes to snag some incremental camera-body sales, why not pick up that extra money?

    The 20mm example will have to sell for peanuts if and when they finally release it, as by then supposedly many will have heard of the adapter/second-hand lens route.
    Don't underestimate the advantage of autofocus for many users. I'll probably want the 20 myself for that specific reason, even though I'm up to the kazoo in adapters.

    Also, if you need a 20mm lens, the adapter/second-hand-lens route has a lot of potholes in it. If you buy a C-mount lens, you've got to deal with sensor coverage issues, the possible need for machining the mount, the possibility of "corner smearing," and in some cases awkward ergonomics. If you buy an M-mount lens, well, none of the 20/21mm options are exactly cheap, especially after you've added the cost of the adapter. If you buy an SLR lens plus adapter, you've negated the Micro Four Thirds advantage of compact size.

    Could it be now that the "marketing-masterminds" at Panasonic have changed track and are thinking way ahead (video) and the simple G1 is just an initial stepping stone to be discontinued shortly to make way for more GH1 type combo-cameras? Could this indeed mean (hopefully)* that the micro four-thirds still camera idea becomes Leica-only territory?
    I think that's a rather long, tenuous bridge of speculation... although it wouldn't surprise me if the GH1 eventually supplants the G1 entirely, especially if manufacturing costs are similar and if the GH1 is such a hit that they need the manufacturing capacity.

    On the other hand, since they've already made the upfront investment in the G1 and since it has gotten some positive attention (Pop Photo Camera of the Year, for example) it would make sense to keep it in the lineup so they could offer a lower-cost model to people who aren't interested in video.

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    Re: Panasonic and Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    I couldn't quite understand this either. It draws sales away from their micro four thirds lenses which are late in arriving on the market to boot. The 20mm example will have to sell for peanuts if and when they finally release it, as by then supposedly many will have heard of the adapter/second-hand lens route.
    Could it be now that the "marketing-masterminds" at Panasonic have changed track and are thinking way ahead (video) and the simple G1 is just an initial stepping stone to be discontinued shortly to make way for more GH1 type combo-cameras? Could this indeed mean (hopefully)* that the micro four-thirds still camera idea becomes Leica-only territory?

    *hopefully as in quality, not as in Leica prices, alas.
    I shoot a great deal with MF lenses, but would really like a fast AF lens in this range. MF lenses in 20 f/1.7 range are pretty pricey--and generally bigger than I expect (from pics) this to be (concurring with Ranger's post). I can't afford Leica lenses--and, even so, still not AF, so I think there's lots of room for us others *smile*.

    Diane

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    Re: Panasonic and Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    I Could this indeed mean (hopefully)* that the micro four-thirds still camera idea becomes Leica-only territory?

    *hopefully as in quality, not as in Leica prices, alas.
    Don't forget Olympus - they certainly show every sign of making a Pen F lookalike, and they're scheduled to bring out 5 lenses as I understand it as well.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Panasonic and Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Don't forget Olympus - they certainly show every sign of making a Pen F lookalike, and they're scheduled to bring out 5 lenses as I understand it as well.
    yes, this will be the star of the second half year. Video is a must in spec.
    My friend's friend try it already. Not a suprising comment: must buy.

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    Ranger, Diane and Jono

    Better points than mine all round. I hadn't thought of it this way (these ways) - ah, constructive discussion; nothing better. Thank you.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    http://panasonic.jp/support/global/c...nect/mrma.html

    I was expecting something a bit more innovative from the hyped "Panasonic/Leica collaboration" on this adapter. How about a "smart" adapter with LEDs and chip to recognize lenses with the Leica 6 bit coding and a G1 firmware upgrade to process that info and apply corrections for distortion.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Poor wording there, the focal length isn't doubled.

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    I don't think Leica is going to waste resources on the Micro 4/3. They know their future is with the S2, R10 and next generation M.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Panasonic and Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Don't forget Olympus - they certainly show every sign of making a Pen F lookalike, and they're scheduled to bring out 5 lenses as I understand it as well.
    Jono that's the problem I'm seeing with Olympus is the "lookalike." If it doesn't have the PEN F functionality, I don't see any thing to make it standout.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I don't think Leica is going to waste resources on the Micro 4/3. They know their future is with the S2, R10 and next generation M.
    They hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    Jono that's the problem I'm seeing with Olympus is the "lookalike." If it doesn't have the PEN F functionality, I don't see any thing to make it standout.
    You mean, if it doesn't use film?

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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    No hump on the top; view finder not in the middle of the body, an EVF doesn't care where it is.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: Panasonic to make M & R adaptors for G1!

    Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that hump.
    Igor: What hump?

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