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LUMIX G1 STRANGE PATTERN IN IMAGE

jotloob

Subscriber Member
I have experienced a strange issue .

After many tries , I can pin down the problem to at least four different cameras G1 , with OEM wide angle lenses .
The shorter the focal length the more obvious is the problem .

I came across that problem just by luck .

A little description is neccessary .
I used a VOIGTLÄNDER 4,5/15mm lens , but the problem also shows with other WA lenses .
Shoot a blue or dizzy sky , and offload the image .
I use LR + PSCS3 . Enlarge the image to 300% and inspect the right top corner and right lower corner . I find a funny pattern which I do not find on the left side of the image .
Of course you can shoot anything , but then it is much more difficult to see the pattern .

Here it is .

View attachment 17888

Do you get the same pattern ? ? ?
What could cause this pattern ? ? ?
Why does it not appear anywhere else in the image ? ? ?
Is this supposed to be normal ? ? ?

It will possibly not cause any trouble for normal little images , but it is very strange to me .
When using the lens kit zoom at the wide angle position it can also be seen , but very very much softer . But the pattern is there .

Looking forward to hear your experience .

Jürgen
 

monza

Active member
I seem to recall this is caused by the raw conversion software, there is a thread around here somewhere...
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
If you mean the right-angled "check" pattern -- I see it in a lot of images, not necessarily with wide lenses but mostly at higher ISO settings.

I also recall discussion that it is related to what raw-conversion software you use; I use Adobe Lightroom.

What software did you use for these? Have you tried running them through SilkyPix (s/w supplied with camera) to see if you can reproduce the results?

If we can definitely show it is a Lightroom-specific problem, we might be able to ask Adobe to do something about it...
 

pellicle

New member
Hi

I have experienced a strange issue .

Do you get the same pattern ? ? ?
What could cause this pattern ? ? ?
Why does it not appear anywhere else in the image ? ? ?
Is this supposed to be normal ? ? ?
I found this using dcraw ... I asked the maker about it and he patiently pointed me to the FAQ:


If you see patterns like this or this in your output images, first try
"dcraw -a". If these patterns persist, use "dcraw -f" to get rid of them.
I expect that LR is using the core library from dcraw

perhaps there are some options on preferences in the settings?

HTH
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
If you mean the right-angled "check" pattern -- I see it in a lot of images, not necessarily with wide lenses but mostly at higher ISO settings.

I also recall discussion that it is related to what raw-conversion software you use; I use Adobe Lightroom.

What software did you use for these? Have you tried running them through SilkyPix (s/w supplied with camera) to see if you can reproduce the results?

If we can definitely show it is a Lightroom-specific problem, we might be able to ask Adobe to do something about it...

First of all , thank you guys for the hint to the possibility of a software problem .
My workflow is LR to PS .
I use LR and PSCS3/CS4 converting from RAW to TIFF .

I have now installed SILKYPIX + the latest update .

If I open the TEST image with LR and transfer that to TIFF , open that image file with PSCS3/4 , the pattern can easily bee seen .
If I do the verysame using SILKY PIX , open the image file with PSCS3/4 the pattern does NOT exist .

That encourages me to say , we have a software problem for the RAW conversion of the LUMIX G1 to the ADOBE LR software .
Shurely also for other ADOBE software .

How sould we proceed . ? ? ?
 

pellicle

New member
How sould we proceed . ? ? ?
my workflow before I got the G1 was to use ACR to convert my image into Photoshop, when I got my G1 I found that my version of ACR did not support it. I had been expecting something like that.

Personally I don't like running with the cutting edge for exactly that reason.

I've not altered my workflow to use dcraw as my conversion and then open that file in CS. This has both advantages and disadvantages. I can use dcraw for instance to generate all the jpg thumbnails using the -e option. Now I just shoot RAW and get mid sized jpgs out of the raw file for preview.

However I also had been experimenting with the use of photomatix (as it opens my RAW file directly) and doing gentle tone mapping. I then open in CS and apply some local area contrast and curves. My woodpecker shots were done this way for instance



I now seem to prefer this method as I can get a look more like a scan of negative (only much clearer) which I like.

it may just be a matter of playing with settings in LR as I suggested or it may be that you could explore a hybrid workflow.

Sometimes the best solution is a workaround ... it may take some personal adjustment though.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Thanks for your answer .

As I stated before , SILKYPIX does not show the "pattern" .

In the meantime , I have addressed the problem in the ADOBE LIGHTROOM forum .

As I also use PHOCUS for HASSELBLAD digital images , I do not want to change my workflow .
PHOCUS and LIGHTROOM are so similar and very easy to handle .
Therefore SILKYPIX is only a replacement solution , till the issue is clarified .

Jürgen
 

pellicle

New member
As I stated before , SILKYPIX does not show the "pattern" .
I did read that ... but as you also said:

My workflow is LR to PS .
I use LR and PSCS3/CS4 converting from RAW to TIFF .
I thought I would mention the options of dcraw to allow you closer to your prefered workflow. I don't like slikypix much.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
I don't like SILKYPIX either .
I had a look for the recommended dcraw today and found it very complicated to get that software installed and finally gave up .

As LR is very similar to PHOCUS from HASSELBLAD , which I also use , I decided not to change my workflow and wait for a solution from the LR people .

In the meantime I will use SILKYPIX as a substitution .

I will come back with details from ADOBE as soon as that is available .

I would be very much interested if other G1 users have seen the same issue .

Jürgen
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
I have updated LR2.3 to LR2.4 , but the above described issue is still there .
Is anyone else seeing this pattern as described above ? ? ?

Jürgen
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
I have updated LR2.3 to LR2.4 , but the above described issue is still there .
Is anyone else seeing this pattern as described above ? ? ?
Jürgen
Yes, I see this pattern (I call it "checking") in some of my own pictures. Usually it's only noticeable in smooth medium-toned areas, and I tend to see it more in shots at high ISOs (possibly because most of my shots are at high ISOs!)

My reading of the release notes for LR2.4 is that it adds compatibility for some new camera models and fixes some minor bugs (mostly interface bugs in the Windows version.) I assume there were no changes in the underlying imaging "engine," so we could not expect it to resolve this issue.

I suppose I should find some good example images and start posting them on the official Lightroom forums, as Adobe is likely to do something only if enough of us make a stink. The G1 and GH1 are still tiny-minority cameras compared to all the Canons and Nikons out there, so it will take some effort to get Adobe to pay attention.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Yes, I see this pattern (I call it "checking") in some of my own pictures. Usually it's only noticeable in smooth medium-toned areas, and I tend to see it more in shots at high ISOs (possibly because most of my shots are at high ISOs!)

My reading of the release notes for LR2.4 is that it adds compatibility for some new camera models and fixes some minor bugs (mostly interface bugs in the Windows version.) I assume there were no changes in the underlying imaging "engine," so we could not expect it to resolve this issue.

I suppose I should find some good example images and start posting them on the official Lightroom forums, as Adobe is likely to do something only if enough of us make a stink. The G1 and GH1 are still tiny-minority cameras compared to all the Canons and Nikons out there, so it will take some effort to get Adobe to pay attention.
Ranger9

I am using MAC OSX 10.5.7

First of all , thank you for your reply . So , now I know , that I am not the only one seeing that pattern .
I came across this issue , when I wanted to merge 3 images for an HDRI using photomatix .
There I saw a kind of chessboard pattern in the described areas .
Inspecting the single image the suspected areas turned out as shown on the first page of this thread .

I have opened a thread at the adobe forum , but there is no solution and no activity so far .

I have gone back to LR2.3 as I use PSCS3 and PSCS4 .
Not all updates are golden and often no real advantage to the former version .

Thanks again . Jürgen
 

sandymc

New member
The pattern you're seeing is called a maze pattern,and it is indeed related to the raw processor - specifically, it occurs on AHD type demosaicing algorithms (which both dcraw and Adobe's convertors are), usually when there is a difference in level between the two green channels in the Bayer matrix.

This usually gets worse with higher ISO, and does vary between individual cameras - probably not every G1 would show it even under identical circumstances.

Your best bet would be the Adobe forums - specifically you want Eric Chan to take note. But Adobe probably won't make changes unless there are several different people with the same problem; one camera doing this would probably be a camera issue.

Sandy
 

Terry

New member
This has come up a number of times over at DPReview so you can do a search there and Eric Chan has been on a couple of threads over there so search for him as well and perhaps you can send him an email.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Sandy

Thank you for your reply .
It encourages me to believe , that the issue is with LR2.3
I have seen this maze pattern with four different LUMIX G1 cameras .

I do hope , that other LR users join in and report their experience .
If ADOBE does not supply a solution , I will just kick out LR and regard this product as unsuitable , as a similar issue might exist for other cameras as well .
Additional to that , there are rumors , that the LR2.4 converter does not convert HASSELBLAD 3FR files as good as PHOCUS does .

I don't know if this is true , but a great name does not always mean the best performance .

Jürgen
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I've been shooting with the G1 and using Lightroom to do my processing for over 5000 images now. I use a wide range of lenses from a Cosmicar 12.5mm f/1.4 up to an Olympus ZD 50-200mm and Nikkor 180/2.8 with EC14 behind it. Including the standard G Vario 14-45 as well, of course.

I've never once seen this problem in any of my exposures. I've heard others talk of it but only in the context of using dcraw.

Do you have any statistics on what lens/lens opening/shutter time/etc it seems to appear at? If you do, I'll see if I have anything similar and do a more exhaustive check.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Godfrey

Thanks for your contribution.
As I mentioned before , I came across this issue when I wanted the create an HDRI image using photomatix .
There I saw a chessboard like pattern in the right top corner of the image .
After inspecting the images in detail , I could identify the source .
The maze pattern in the right top and bottom corner .

I have no statistics .
But . . . . i noticed , that the issue is not there or can hardly be seen when using long focal length lenses .
The shorter the focal length of the lens , the more obvious is the pattern .
I described all that in the first page of this thread .

I can see the issue with the standard kit lens , with my 2,8/28mm KONICA HEXAR RF lens , and best with the VOIGTLAENDER HELIAR 4,5/15mm lens , but I can not see it with my KONIKA HEXAR 2,8/90mm .

Therefore , as you use long focal length lenses , you will not see the issue , or only very "soft" .

Jürgen
 
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