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Thread: Having fun with the E-P1

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Here are the goodies and the bag. I think I have a rear cap in the car so I left the E-P1 and kit out. Generally I have at least one camera out of the bag but I can get everything in. The pancake and 50 lux are back to back in the same pouch. I did that a lot with my M8 that also has some really small lenses. Yesterday I had the two Oly lenses back to back and the Leica lens between two of the padded pouches.






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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    If I had the choice I would buy the Oly in a heart beat. The G1 like for Mike just would not be worth holding onto. The EVF on these things are not that great anyway. Okay that came a MF shooter with a big as day viewfinder.

    To me coming from a history of the M8 the Oly just reminds me so much of it as a RF camera to throw in the little Domke and run out the door. Most likely sell my G10 and get one but first I want to see about raw converters and if C1 will support it. Most liky get a 7-14 a 17 pancake and something like a Oly 50mm Macro f2 which would also be a nice 100mm portrait look lens wide open. Obviously for me this would be my toy.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I've been really tempted by the 25 f/1.4 but it is really larger than I'd like for this system.
    It is large, but it's a great lens. I use it mostly with the L1 and E-1, but when you need a normal and it's dim out, it's the one to have.

    I was interested in how others would use it if they had the G1/GH1 and I can see everyone has a bit different way/reason. I'm still honestly not sure w/o the VF if I would get a lot of use out of it. I'm not a tele shooter (thus less interest in IS)--my 45-200 is rarely on my camera-- I'm not a street shooter--and sometimes critical focus (MF) is very important to me and I'm just not sure about that with only an LCD.
    The G1's 'two-button-press to get to focus assist' is much more convenient than the E-P1's 'get to the right info screen, press ok, dial in magnification'. But beyond that, the screen and magnification seem just as easy to use as it is with the G1. The real question is whether you prefer to use a TTL eye-level viewfinder more.

    Personally, I see the E-P1 as my two-three lens camera: the 12.5mm, the 17mm, and a 35-40mm will be just right. Wide lenses are easier to use with the LCD than long teles, unless I'm using a tripod (then teles are great!).

    I see these two cameras as two complementary bodies with different feature sets and very similar image quality potential. If you find you use the viewfinder a lot with the G1, and prefer it for your critical focus work, I'd say the E-P1 is probably not the right camera for you. I'd wait for the next Olympus before doing it.

    There's no need to be in a hurry. Consider your photography and act on that basis.

    I saw the Cube with the EP-1 .. LOL
    Someday I'll give you all a real laugh and dig up the photo of my ultraminiature Minox IIIS fitted to a 22lb pro tripod and head ... ];-)

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    If I had the choice I would buy the Oly in a heart beat. The G1 like for Mike just would not be worth holding onto. The EVF on these things are not that great anyway. Okay that came a MF shooter with a big as day viewfinder.
    I've compared the G1's viewfinder with my Pentax 645 and Hasselblad 500CM prism finders. Frankly, I prefer the G1's finder: it's brighter and easier to set critical focus manually, even with slow lenses stopped down to f/8-f/11 and extremely wide lenses (like Terry's G Vario 7-14mm f/4). Far as I'm concerned, it blows away the Canon and Nikon "full frame" DSLR viewfinders completely.

    All a matter of opinion and preference, of course. I'm fussy about certain aspects of viewfinders and not about others. To date, the only two optical reflex viewfinders I miss are the Nikon F3/T and Leica R8. The rest, eh? the G1's EVF does a better job of what I want a viewfinder to do.

    That said ... I will buy the Oly anyway. It services another kind of work better than the G1, that's all, and the fact that it shares the lenses makes it affordable. :-)

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quite a good size camera, slightly larger than a P&S:


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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    To me coming from a history of the M8 the Oly just reminds me so much of it as a RF camera to throw in the little Domke and run out the door.
    I thought the same when I first picked up the EP1. But the gritty, low res LCD on the EP1 and the crystal clear finder on the M8 make for a very different shooting experience. Shooting with the EP1 is like shooting with your basic point and shoot.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    No doubt , for me the EP-1 is really something to play with so not a big a deal since i shoot medium format backs for the real work. Seems like a step up from my G10 which I never use the finder anyway.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I thought the same when I first picked up the EP1. But the gritty, low res LCD on the EP1 and the crystal clear finder on the M8 make for a very different shooting experience. Shooting with the EP1 is like shooting with your basic point and shoot.
    Ahh but a point and shoot that allows me to do a better job getting my shots in critical focus which is better than I was getting with the M8 wide open

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Ahh but a point and shoot that allows me to do a better job getting my shots in critical focus which is better than I was getting with the M8 wide open
    I guess it depends how and what you shoot. You can fire up an M8 and focus your f1.4 lens quick smart. On the EP1 you need to go through half a dozen button presses. This may be fine for stills and landscapes but is clumsy for pretty much anything else.

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Going completely off-topic: looks like a VERY nice bag, Terry. Not at all like most of Lowe-Pros line so far (and Im no fan of theirs...). Seems most Swedish dealers are still waiting for delivery...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    ...
    I took a picture of my bag with my m4/3 kit. Small bag with lots of stuff. So the whole thing is very easy to grab and go for the day.....
    In my small Lowepro Terraclime 100 bag I had both bodies, 7-14, 14-45, 45-200, 17, 14-42, 50 lux.....
    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Here are the goodies and the bag. I think I have a rear cap in the car so I left the E-P1 and kit out. Generally I have at least one camera out of the bag but I can get everything in. The pancake and 50 lux are back to back in the same pouch. I did that a lot with my M8 that also has some really small lenses. Yesterday I had the two Oly lenses back to back and the Leica lens between two of the padded pouches.






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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Per

    I like the bag a lot. Not very big. No velcro on the outer closure . Also comes in black or a light green. Not a lot of padding (which I like) but this size bag also comes with a wrap for the camera.


    Attachment 19009

    the name of the series is called terraclime

    .... oh and to bring it back on topic. If you are going out with just the E-P1 and an extra battery and lens here is the smaller size




  12. #212
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    I have a smaller version for my G10 and actually showed Terry these bags at PMA. What I like about them is you can cross shoulder them and put them in the side of your back and not even feel you are carrying a bag at all. Also i hate a lot of padding which these do not have.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    funny how people dislike velcro.

    the smaller bag reminds me of the domke 5xb.
    interesting clasp on these, is it easy to use with one hand?

    joe

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    You have to get used to it Joe. You can do one hand but certainly slower than Velcro. Harder to put back on than release
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    maybe that's why i'm ok with velcro, i can do it with only one hand, all others require 2 hands.
    i'm looking for a small one camera, maybe 2 lens bag and will check this series out.

    joe

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by back alley View Post
    funny how people dislike velcro.

    joe
    Messenger bags with velcro have a bad habit of attaching to some of my favorite articles of clothing and wrecking them.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    no crack intended terry...
    it's usually the sound that bothers people.

    i use duct tape and cover more than half the velcro.

    joe

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    The sound does bug me when I am shooting
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    I'm very taken with the Terraclime 100 too. Sigh. As if the dozen or three bags I already have aren't enough. Best bag out of Lowepro I've seen in a long while.

    I hate velcro closures too. I do like velcro on the interior to allow easily repositionable dividers and padding, however. Billingham does this just right.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Friedel View Post
    Here we have the detachable EVF!!!

    Karl
    This is how Uwe Steinmuller is shooting with his EP-1--and other small cams. I get that this makes usability much easier for folks like me that just have issues with shooting with the LCD--but it rather defeats the purpose of small, doesn't it? I did look at it on his site awhile ago and even considered it for my G9 at one point, but never went further than that.

    Diane

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If you find you use the viewfinder a lot with the G1, and prefer it for your critical focus work, I'd say the E-P1 is probably not the right camera for you. I'd wait for the next Olympus before doing it.

    There's no need to be in a hurry. Consider your photography and act on that basis.
    Good advice Godfrey. I'm still going to trek on down to Charlotte and handle the EP-1, but I think I'm better off waiting and seeing what else is coming. I'm in no hurry either as I am well covered camera/lens wise for about any situation, but am hoping the m4/3rds develops more as it suits for a lot of my shooting. For now--looking forward to getting my 17 f/2.8 for the G1. That and one other lens (maybe the 40 f/1.7) will be a very small kit that should work well for me.

    Diane

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm very taken with the Terraclime 100 too. Sigh. As if the dozen or three bags I already have aren't enough. Best bag out of Lowepro I've seen in a long while.

    I hate velcro closures too. I do like velcro on the interior to allow easily repositionable dividers and padding, however. Billingham does this just right.
    LOL--I like it too, but one more bag, as you say. I have a closet full and all seemed 'just the thing' at one point or another with one camera/kit or another. I'm still sold mostly on my old Domkes (3 at last count) and have never tried the Billinghams--so many like them. What I like about the Terraclime is the seemingly very flexible body. The seaming seems different than on my Domkes where the structure makes them boxier--though soft. I do use dividers in 2 of my Domkes also.

    Diane

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by back alley View Post
    funny how people dislike velcro.
    I don't think it's a matter of disliking Velcro(tm). It's a matter of disliking the "schplKKEEEEEEW" sound it makes when you peel it.

    That, and the hook portion turning into a Museum of Lint of every sweater you ever wore...

    But then, I don't like the plastic clasps that snap back and sting my fingertips, either. Zippers or buckles are too slow, and snaps aren't flexible enough. Magnets would be a thought, but would they damage your storage media? There's no perfect solution.

    Doctor Who has his psychic paper, and I'm waiting for psychic adhesive -- stays firmly stuck when you want it stuck, lets go when you want it to let go...

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    ... I'm waiting for psychic adhesive -- stays firmly stuck when you want it stuck, lets go when you want it to let go...
    I think that's made by the same company that sells the "portable hole" used by Bugs Bunny, and the various gadgets for Wile E. Coyote.

    Cheers,

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    ACME

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The G1's 'two-button-press to get to focus assist' is much more convenient than the E-P1's 'get to the right info screen, press ok, dial in magnification'.
    Actually, if you configure the E-P1 correctly, it's a simple one button push to get the focus assist.

    Cycle through the live views (using the info button) until you get to the one that has a small green square in the middle. That's the mode you want to be in. Once in that mode, simply hit the "ok" button in the middle of the dial, and the small square is magnified to fill the whole screen for focus assist. Simply hit "ok" again to jump back to the regular view.

    Mike
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post
    Actually, if you configure the E-P1 correctly, it's a simple one button push to get the focus assist.

    Cycle through the live views (using the info button) until you get to the one that has a small green square in the middle. That's the mode you want to be in. Once in that mode, simply hit the "ok" button in the middle of the dial, and the small square is magnified to fill the whole screen for focus assist. Simply hit "ok" again to jump back to the regular view.

    Mike
    Mike, my only issue with the green box screen is that there is no shooting info there at all (histo, shutter, ev, etc.). Otherwise I would leave it on that screen.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Friedel View Post
    Here we have the detachable EVF!!!
    Karl
    Laughing, rolling on the floor ....

    Buy a car without wheels and mount roller skates

    GH1 is the better E-P1

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Mike, my only issue with the green box screen is that there is no shooting info there at all (histo, shutter, ev, etc.). Otherwise I would leave it on that screen.
    Yes, which is just the way I like it, especially when shooting with my M lenses. Nice and clean.

    Mike
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Mike - I've turned off a number of the info screens so getting to the right one for manual focus is much faster.
    There are sooooo many settings in these menus it is unreal.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Bracketing -
    When I first set up the camera, I turned bracketing on. I am almost certain that the camera was automatically making the three exposures. At one point over the weekend I turned it off. Now when I try to turn bracketing back on, the only way I get a bracket is to actually go in and hit the shutter 3 times. Can't figure this out and the manual is not overly helpful. (The manual actually says you need to make 3 shots on your own). This does not make sense.

    Anyone have any thoughts?

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Bracketing -
    When I first set up the camera, I turned bracketing on. I am almost certain that the camera was automatically making the three exposures. At one point over the weekend I turned it off. Now when I try to turn bracketing back on, the only way I get a bracket is to actually go in and hit the shutter 3 times. Can't figure this out and the manual is not overly helpful. (The manual actually says you need to make 3 shots on your own). This does not make sense.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
    It probably works like my E-1 and other Olympus cameras: setting "bracket" is independent of setting drive mode. You set the camera to bracket AND you set the drive mode to Continuous. When the controls are set that way, press and hold the shutter release will produce the bracket sequence and stop. If you set it to bracket only with drive mode on Single, you have to make each exposure with a separate press of the shutter release.

    ---
    Just checked the E-P1 manual, page 52:

    "• In single-frame shooting, the exposure changes every
    time the shutter button is pressed.

    • In sequential shooting, hold down the shutter button until
    the selected number of frames are taken."

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Thanks Godfrey,
    I saw that. It just didn't jive with what I thought the camera was doing on Friday. I was getting brackets and I generally don't set the camera to sequential shooting.

    The only issue with this is if you forget you are in a bracket and just take one shot and move on to a different subject, your next shot will be part of the previous bracket i.e. the exposure will be compensated.

    If there were a quicker way to get in and out of bracketing mode it would be simple. It is just pretty deep in the menus and I need to figure out how my mode works....you have to shoot holding down the fn key????

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    Blown highlights?

    I'm seeing a lot of blown highlights in the sample images I have looked at so far. And in many cases they seem to be blowing in a rather ugly way. Is this just a jpeg thing, or are the raw files irretrievable as well? This is the one thing that is preventing me from having a serious interest in this camera.

    Bill

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    Re: Blown highlights?

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of blown highlights in the sample images I have looked at so far. And in many cases they seem to be blowing in a rather ugly way. Is this just a jpeg thing, or are the raw files irretrievable as well? This is the one thing that is preventing me from having a serious interest in this camera.

    Bill
    Where are you seeing all of the blown highlights on this thread or other places? I've actually have been surprised (and posted about it) that the camera seems to handle them pretty well. I believe a lot of people right now are dealing with jpegs waiting for additional RAW support.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    A few quick shots from a neighborhood BBQ this evening...

    These are all out-of-the-camera jpgs. I captured RAW+JPG, but haven't started processing the E-P1 raw files yet, as I'm waiting for LR/CS to support the files. These jpgs below have some cropping and minor exposure corrections, but this is pretty much how they look out of the camera. I use the "natural" setting in the camera, with no other adjustments.
    Mike Hatam
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Looking good. You seem happy with the set up. There was a short thread going over at LUF and there was the usual outrage the people would put their Leica lenses on a piece of garbage camera....there is a reason I don't hang out over there .

    Which of your Leica/Zeiss lenses are you using here? I was keeping a 50 lux in my bag for shots like these.

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    Re: Blown highlights?

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of blown highlights in the sample images I have looked at so far. And in many cases they seem to be blowing in a rather ugly way. Is this just a jpeg thing, or are the raw files irretrievable as well? This is the one thing that is preventing me from having a serious interest in this camera.
    I don't know where you're seeing blown highlights. I've only played with Terry's a little bit and tried to force blown highlights in the JPEGs, and I was unsuccessful.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    [QUOTE=TEBnewyork;114924] ... I was getting brackets and I generally don't set the camera to sequential shooting. [\QUOTE]

    hmm. I have this vague recollection that the symbol indicating Continuous drive mode was on in your camera's display on Friday.

    The only issue with this is if you forget you are in a bracket and just take one shot and move on to a different subject, your next shot will be part of the previous bracket i.e. the exposure will be compensated.
    If it's like the E-1, again, the "bracket" signal will flash when you're in an intermediary bracket step and Single shot mode.

    I haven't read all the way through the manual yet. I'm sure there's a lot to discover about the E-P1. I haven't even finished reading the G1 manual yet, to be honest. ;-) :-)

  40. #240
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Hi all, Raw Developer (http://iridient.com/ ) version 1.8.4 can develop EP1 raw files, Mac only

    Jose

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Looking good. You seem happy with the set up. There was a short thread going over at LUF and there was the usual outrage the people would put their Leica lenses on a piece of garbage camera....there is a reason I don't hang out over there .

    Which of your Leica/Zeiss lenses are you using here? I was keeping a 50 lux in my bag for shots like these.
    Yes - this was my 50 pre-asph lux, all shots wide open.

    I'm quite happy with this combo. And they 'feel right' together, when in the hand.

    I stopped hanging out at LUF long ago
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    A few shots from Saturday, at the beach (Pajaro Dunes in Watsonville, California). This was my first day with the camera, and experimenting with various lenses.

    The action/people shots were taken with the Panny 45-200. All the other shots were taken with the Leica 50 pre-asph lux or the Zeiss ZM 21 f2.8.

    These are all out-of-camera jpgs, with some cropping, and minor exposure and color balance adjustments.

    I was pleased that the Panny 45-200 was able to focus quickly enough for me to get some action shots of the kids playing in the surf.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Three more from my day at the beach...
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Re: Blown highlights?

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of blown highlights in the sample images I have looked at so far. And in many cases they seem to be blowing in a rather ugly way. Is this just a jpeg thing, or are the raw files irretrievable as well? This is the one thing that is preventing me from having a serious interest in this camera.

    Bill
    HI Bill
    I'm not seeing this - of course, blown highlights is mostly due to exposure - if you get it wrong it's hardly the camera's fault!
    Still - recovery in the RAW files is pretty good - at least a stop before it starts to get ugly.
    I'd say it was better than any of the 4/3 cameras I've used before, the dynamic range and noise response is also good . . . without damaging Olympus' nice colour response.

    Have a serious interest!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post
    Three more from my day at the beach...
    Lovely stuff Mike - I could do with a day at the beach, but I'll have to wait until September

    I'm glad you're liking it, I think it's fab. My only trouble is getting time to use it seriously - Three weddings in a week, where it was safer to use the A900

    Just this guy you know

  46. #246
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    Re: Blown highlights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Where are you seeing all of the blown highlights on this thread or other places? I've actually have been surprised (and posted about it) that the camera seems to handle them pretty well. I believe a lot of people right now are dealing with jpegs waiting for additional RAW support.
    Not so much here, but a lot on DPR and Flickr. Take a look at Jono's first pic of the red flower, and you can see on the stem where it curves at the top a fairly ugly white patch. That's just a small example, but I have been seeing very similar and much worse examples of highlights blowing completely out and not in a pretty way. It's probably not good netiquette to post other peoples' pics from other sites here, but I'll see if I can point out some good examples of what I'm seeing. FWIW, it does seem that most of what I'm seeing is jpeg's right from the camera, and I did see in a thread about how to open the E-P1 raw files in a converter some samples comparing the jpeg's to the raw files, and the raw files did seem to hold the highlights better. I guess it remains to be seen.

    Bill

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    Take a look at Jono's first pic of the red flower, and you can see on the stem where it curves at the top a fairly ugly white patch.

    Bill
    HI Bill
    For the sake of the discussion here it is
    The shot was taken in very bright sunlight with water on the stem - which was reflecting the sunlight - the reduction to manageable size has made the shape more awkward. I'm not sure that there is any camera which will not blow specular highlights like this though. Of course, one could expose for it . . . but you'd need superhuman dynamic range to deal with it.
    What is also noticeable about this shot is that it's kept the poppy red very manageably exposed - they're notoriously tough to get right.



    Pehaps this is a better example in that it really was over-exposed (first day with camera). I've managed to recover quite a lot of detail in what was inherently simply white.




    I'm always rather sceptical when people say that a camera 'blows highlights' , because it seems to me that it's almost always an exposure issue. Certainly some RAW files do better at recovery than others

    I wouldn't like to be responsible for you thinking that the camera wilfully overexposes and blows highlights on the basis of my crappy photography!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I'm always rather sceptical when people say that a camera 'blows highlights' , because it seems to me that it's almost always an exposure issue. Certainly some RAW files do better at recovery than others

    I wouldn't like to be responsible for you thinking that the camera wilfully overexposes and blows highlights on the basis of my crappy photography!
    Jono, thanks for commenting. I do agree that often times the highlight problems I see are simply poor exposures. But one thing I know for sure is that your photography is definitely NOT crappy.

    I spent some time looking at all the E-P1 images I could find on my calibrated monitor at home, and they do look better than what I was seeing on my (truly) crappy monitor at the office. However, since I'm still looking at jpegs, I think it's best I reserve judgment until we have raw conversion capability and we can start looking at the raw files.

    Bill

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    ... However, since I'm still looking at jpegs, I think it's best I reserve judgment until we have raw conversion capability and we can start looking at the raw files.
    Anyone willing to put up with Olympus Master or Studio 2 has RAW processing available now. I hate using Studio 2 ... miserable, clunky software ... but it does actually do excellent rendering.

    The only way I know how a camera works for sure is to buy one and use it, test it, myself on the subject matter I shoot and the way I shoot. I don't trust *any* images posted to the web, period. But even with that, I see enough good stuff with the E-P1 already that I am planning to buy one soon.

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    Re: Having fun with the E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post
    Actually, if you configure the E-P1 correctly, it's a simple one button push to get the focus assist.

    Cycle through the live views (using the info button) until you get to the one that has a small green square in the middle. That's the mode you want to be in. Once in that mode, simply hit the "ok" button in the middle of the dial, and the small square is magnified to fill the whole screen for focus assist. Simply hit "ok" again to jump back to the regular view.
    Cycling through the view options means multiple button presses unless you like living with a green square in the middle of the view all the time and don't want any of the other informational tools available. ;-)

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