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Thread: AEL/AFL on E-P1

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    AEL/AFL on E-P1

    I posted this on DP review but it looks like it is going to fall off the front page with no responses....any one here want to share?

    I've had a lot of different cameras and my best set up turned out to be the way I customized my D700 for focus/exposure/shutter release. In this set up I would use the AFL button (one press don't need to hold) on the back to achieve focus and then the shutter button only did exposure and release. Works great especially if you like to focus and recompose. Once you get the hang of it, you can work really fast and accurately.

    After about 10 days with the E-P1, I haven't quite figured out a good configuration where I take advantage of or even use this button.

    Would you be so kind as to share your focus and exposure routine and how you use this button on your E-P1.

    thanks!

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Hi Terry,

    I just picked up an E-P1 yesterday and configured it exactly how you described since that's my preferred shooting style as well. Here's how you do it:

    Go into the menu and select the menu with the gears *. From there, in the *B menu select AEL/AFL. Within that menu you can configure each of the 3 focus modes. For each one that you want to use the AEL/AFL button to perform auto focus set it to Mode 3. This will map the AEL/AFL button to focus and the shutter button half press will now lock exposure instead of focusing.

    Hope that helps.

    Greg

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Awesome...off to go set the camera. I don't think the writer of the manual and I gel very well. I looked at the manual a couple of times and didn't figure out that little table.

    Your post just reminded me that I spaced out on making the RAW files available. I will go and copy them to my iDisk. I will then send you the link.

    Terry

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Thanks for the tip Greg. I've been trying to figure this out as well, as I set my Canon bodies up the same way that Terry described, and prefer this way of shooting.

    Mike
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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    OK,
    Now the other one I learned yesterday that is quite useful is the spot metering. There are actually three varieties and it takes out the step of setting exposure compensation. So, if you have it set to spot meter the shadows and then meter off of a dark area of the scene it exposes that as a shadow not as "neutral" opposite if you have the spot meter set to highlights. I tried it a bit and find it worked quite well and the LCD will show you the changes. For example: if you are in the highlight version and you point the camera straight ahead in a mixed scene and the sky is going to blow and looks white then point the camera to the sky and you can see it turn back to blue on the LCD. IMHO worth playing with.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Awesome...off to go set the camera. I don't think the writer of the manual and I gel very well. I looked at the manual a couple of times and didn't figure out that little table.

    Your post just reminded me that I spaced out on making the RAW files available. I will go and copy them to my iDisk. I will then send you the link.

    Terry
    Hi Terry, I am getting the E-p1 as soon as it becomes available in Australia, but I would like to try the raw files in my favourite Raw developer RPP beforehand. Would it be possible to get one or 2 raw files from you?

    Best regards
    Volker

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Hi Terry, the great thing about having the E-P1 with you every day is that you can experiment with the settings - keep playing and there's a heck of a lot to discover! I'm still learning

    When you have stuff to share, please consider adding to our running E-P1 Team Review Diary here :
    E-P1 Team Review Diary

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Seitz View Post
    Hi Terry,

    I just picked up an E-P1 yesterday and configured it exactly how you described since that's my preferred shooting style as well. Here's how you do it:

    Go into the menu and select the menu with the gears *. From there, in the *B menu select AEL/AFL. Within that menu you can configure each of the 3 focus modes. For each one that you want to use the AEL/AFL button to perform auto focus set it to Mode 3. This will map the AEL/AFL button to focus and the shutter button half press will now lock exposure instead of focusing.

    Hope that helps.

    Greg
    you're genius it works

    btw, is it possible to turn off the AF-beep?

    Yogi

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Hi Terry,
    A little OT, but have you got your G1 set up to do this, too? I'm trying to figure out how I'd go about it ... still need to RTFM.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by volkerhopf View Post
    Hi Terry, I am getting the E-p1 as soon as it becomes available in Australia, but I would like to try the raw files in my favourite Raw developer RPP beforehand. Would it be possible to get one or 2 raw files from you?

    Best regards
    Volker
    Hi Terry,
    Thank you very much for the files! I will try them out in RPP and will report my findings when I am finished.
    Best regards
    Volker

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Joan View Post
    Hi Terry,
    A little OT, but have you got your G1 set up to do this, too? I'm trying to figure out how I'd go about it ... still need to RTFM.
    I haven't found a way to completely disable focus in the shutter button like the method above. Here is what you can do:
    Set the AF/AE lock to AF lock.
    Set the lock to hold
    When you want to focus press the AF/AE button. It will then hold focus and the shutter won't change the focus.
    However, when you go to take your next shot and want to focus again, the first press will "unlock" your previous focus and you can then refocus.

    If you don't set the lock to hold, then you have to physically hold the button while you do the other step. This is pretty annoying.

    So, I don't really use AE/AF as much on the G1. But don't worry I don't love it any less
    Last edited by Terry; 11th July 2009 at 14:32.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Thanks, Terry, this now makes sense!! I was using it to AE lock, but the viewfinder changes continously and sort of screws up my brain when I try to recompose. Your way sounds better.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Terry and all,
    I just picked up my E-P1. I bought the 14-42 kit and a 17. I already have a VC 35VF. Anyway, my question is, while I am waiting for the battery to charge, what other changes to the default settings did you make? I like the idea of the AF lock, so that is one.
    thanks,
    Durr

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    The first thing you need to do is go to the wrench in the menus.
    Next turn the gear menu display to on. All of the important menu items for customization are all in the gears and they default to off.

    There are a lot of different info screens that are tempting to turn on (hitogram, gridlines, etc). If you want to be able to use the manual focus enlarged view with manual focus lenses, you want to keep the number of info screens to a minimum or you will end up having to make a lot of button presses.

    The level function is very useful. Worth enabling.

    Gradation gives a lot of noise problems. Leave it at standard.

    There are two buttons that you can set for "custom buttons. Seems like most of us have set the Fn button to toggle between AF/MF.

    The other button, the left arrow button, on the four way controller, I have set to exposure to quickly get to spot metering. Conversly you could set the AEL button to do spot metering. (when you get that far go back to the top of this thread). It doesn't address spot metering but the use of the AEL/AFL lock button.

    You can decide which dial does what for example in aperture priority I have the aperture change done with the top scroll button and the exposure comp on the wheel of the four way controller. Similar setup for shutter priority.

    There is so much you can customize. I'm trying to strike a balance of keeping it simple and learning all it can do.
    Last edited by Terry; 11th July 2009 at 16:50.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Terry, that's just what i wanted, a starting place. Now I can get to work with the manual and customize it to my style. Thanks so much. I really think I am going to like this little camera. I have to order an adapter for my 35 Cron and 50 Lux. Thanks again. Durr

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    My little tip, when working with M mount lenses using an adaptor and MF, is to....

    FIRST turn off all but the 'zoom' option in Menu>Gear Logo>D>Info Setting>LV-Info

    This means that there's only ever a max of one press of the info button to get you to the zoom MF focus screen from whence you press OK to zoom.

    SECOND when you then use the OK button to zoom in, and have manually tweaked your focus ring to get optimal focus, it's annoyingly out of finger range to have to press OK again to get back to the non-zoomed view for framing. Your right thumb is high on the camera holding it steady while you zoom-focussed with your left hand and if you change grips so as to have a spare finger or thumb to re-press OK to cancel zoom you are in danger of changing the camera to subject distance.

    So instead, cancel zoom by using your right thumb to press Play button twice in succession without changing your grip. It's much easier than the OK button!

    Phew, there we go.

    BTW if anyone has a Leica 50 lux with adaptor, you must, must, must use it on the Pen. It shows you what the sensor can do in a way that you'll not see with the kit zoom which IMHO is weak. And if the shutter speed is faster than 2x focal length, try turning off IS. The results are usually sharper.

    It is a great camera, capable of very mediocre results if not used well!

    Tim

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Thanks Tim,
    Good thinking there that works. I hope they do a firmware update to use the halfpress back to regular view like the G1. I find it hard to take the picture in the zoomed view and was struggling a bit with that button push.

    For the next camera hardware version I would hope the mode dial would let you make a custom setup for manual lenses - how can they not have a C1, C2 etc.

    I'm not sure I've grasped Oly's version of a set of custom settings where if I've read it correctly you actually have to hold a button in the whole time

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Tim. I've been thinking about your IS "off" comments.

    Do you think that you are very steady from shooting the M8 and that is fooling the IS system?

    Have you gone in and set the focal length of the lens in the IS system?

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Tim. I've been thinking about your IS "off" comments.

    Do you think that you are very steady from shooting the M8 and that is fooling the IS system?

    Have you gone in and set the focal length of the lens in the IS system?
    Hi Terry,

    I'm not really very sure about this because I haven't tested it scientifically but I have noticed that the camera produced some really wow files (i.e. perfect at 100% rather than just at 50%) for me for the first time when I used the Lux on a tripod with MF. Yesterday I strolled around London for a while with the kit zoom and when I got home and looked at maybe fifty images, many were very nice but none was as perfect as I mow knew they can be. So I went for another much quicker (so smaller shot sample) walk with the Lux and found that more of the shots were really sharp and that those that were tended to be at higher shutter speeds - with IS off.

    Now, it is often hard to know if slight lack of sharpness is due to a soft lens, a mild mis-focus or slight shake but my strong feeling (which I will today try to verify) is that the IS system pretty much always gives you a tiny shake, maybe one pixel blur, but most often saves you from a bigger shake.

    So if you want to get the really best shot my strong suspicion is, shoot with a fast shutter and no IS. BTW when I had IS on I did have the right focal length set.

    I really will try to test this in more detail today - going for a longer stroll with the Lux!

    BTW I really hope the first firmware update has zoom focus and quit zoom focus assignable to the Fn or AEL button or better still to a hybrid with what you've suggested elsewhere - i.e. have metering assigned to the AEL button and then zoom and quit zoom to shutter half-press.

    I agree with you about the My Mode stuff. You do have to keep the Fn button pressed and it's daft.

    Other gripes: why did they not include a lens hood, which is vital and which needs a weird thread size that no generic fits? My guess is that they're not simply mean, but that they don't want any shots circulating of the Pen looking larger or less beautiful during the honeymoon!

    All in, I think I like it a lot. I certainly really love the way it feels and the results it can produce: I'm not yet convinced that the systems design of it makes those results easy enough to get at!

    What I do know is that it is re-lighting in me the joy of carrying a camera all the time and getting those off-beat, opportunistic shots that nine months of medium format gear have sucked out of me like a Dementor!



    Best,

    Tim
    Last edited by tashley; 12th July 2009 at 01:26.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    I just tested as follows: 50 lux in manual mode, handheld.

    First series of shots on a window and brickwork about 200 metres away. Five shots with IS, five shots without, F4 at 1/400th. There was no discernible difference between the IS and non IS shots.

    Second series F 2 @125th on a newspaper about 1.24 metres away. Five shots with IS and five shots without. Every shot without IS was better than the best shot with.

    Now to work out which shutter speed to focal length ratio determines when we should turn IS on! I'll try it at 1/50th next.

    Tim

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Tim - thanks for doing this testing. I'll be watching this closely, as the 50 lux is my main lens on the E-P1, and will want to know the optimal IS settings (depending on shutter speed).

    Mike
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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    I must agree. Compared to the G1 the Olympus method of manual focus zoom, and then unzoom is unwieldy. I am going to email the local tech rep with some ideas on how to make the process simpler, and less kludgy.

    Martin

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    I've tested the same way as above but now with a shutter of 1/50th at F5.6 on a newspaper 1.25 metres away and as I thought, it demonstrates that the IS does always introduce a tiny blur but often saves you from a worse one. Out of five shots with IS off and five with IS one, otherwise identical apart from the natural variations of hand-holding, the single best shot was with IS off - but the next six in the ranking were identical and were all with IS on. The remaining four IS off shots were clearly worse.

    I then went and shot a whole bunch in the wild with the IS off and I would say that I feel very confident at 1/400th, pretty confident at 1/200th and somewhat at 1/125th.

    What would I choose? If the shot were vital and there was only one chance to get it but enough time to choose settings, I'd go for no IS above 1/200th and IS below 1/150th and whatever the camera was set at inbetween!

    HTH

    Tim

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Thanks Tim,
    You are a dedicated tester! I do want to just double check one thing. When I am putting in the lens focal length I'm using the lens actual, not the m4/3 equivalent. So, I'm setting the 50 at 50 not 100.

    The 50 lux is the lens I kept from my M8 sale . For some odd reason I like using it more on my Pen than G1.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Thanks Tim,
    You are a dedicated tester! I do want to just double check one thing. When I am putting in the lens focal length I'm using the lens actual, not the m4/3 equivalent. So, I'm setting the 50 at 50 not 100.

    The 50 lux is the lens I kept from my M8 sale . For some odd reason I like using it more on my Pen than G1.
    You're doing that correctly Terry. I am sure it does refer to actual rather than equivalent focal length.

    I like the 50 lux on the pen too. It has the same sort of weight and build, which os very flattering to the lux. It does, however, suffer bad CA against the light sometimes and that can ruin a shot. In the world of multi adaptors it's easy to forget just how much is done in software these days and that a physical adaptor is just part of the story. M glass on Micro 4/3rds cameras is not nirvana but it sure is fun!

    Best

    Tim

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Hi Tim
    Glad you bit the bullet - it's especially good to have you around here to do all the tests that the rest of us humble mortals are either
    1. too busy
    2. too lazy
    3. too incompetent

    to do (in my case I claim all three faults).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Tim
    Glad you bit the bullet - it's especially good to have you around here to do all the tests that the rest of us humble mortals are either
    1. too busy
    2. too lazy
    3. too incompetent

    to do (in my case I claim all three faults).
    Buddy, it's just that I'm

    a) too anal not to do them!

    I'm rapidly forming the opinion that more detail is lost to poor focus than to shake. I now turn off IS above 2x focal length and MF whenever possible as a rough formula for best results. I also find that even the venerable 50 lux gives bad CA against the light on the Pen, cos the camera doesn't know what it should be correcting for....

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    have any of you tried an APO lens like the 75 summicron or even the 50/1.4 ASPH (which is supposed to be APO, though they did not bother to characterize it as such)? I am wondering how much of the CA is from the lens, and how much is from the internal characteristics of the Pen sensor glass and IR filter...I get the impression that much of the CA we see on digital cameras is a result of the sensor glass more than the lenses themselves.
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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    have any of you tried an APO lens like the 75 summicron or even the 50/1.4 ASPH (which is supposed to be APO, though they did not bother to characterize it as such)? I am wondering how much of the CA is from the lens, and how much is from the internal characteristics of the Pen sensor glass and IR filter...I get the impression that much of the CA we see on digital cameras is a result of the sensor glass more than the lenses themselves.
    Stuart, the 50 lux I refer to in the previous post is the 1.4 and shot against the light on the Pen it has sometimes very bad CA, the cause of which is I think an imperfect marriage of camera and lens rather than the fault of either.

    Under normal circumstances the lens gives lovely results on the Pen.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Stuart, the 50 lux I refer to in the previous post is the 1.4 and shot against the light on the Pen it has sometimes very bad CA, the cause of which is I think an imperfect marriage of camera and lens rather than the fault of either.

    Under normal circumstances the lens gives lovely results on the Pen.
    Is that with the RayQual adapter? If it isn't, that could be the source of your problem.

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Yes, I realize it is the 1.4, but is it the 1.4 ASPH or the 1.4 pre-ASPH? The pre-ASPH does have some CA even on Leicas and film, but the 50/1.4 ASPH should not really have any. But I do understand the point about the marriage of lens and sensor...sometimes it just does not work as well as it does when using native lenses.
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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Is that with the RayQual adapter? If it isn't, that could be the source of your problem.
    It's with the cameraquest adaptor which seems very well made. According to Sean Reid (and this makes sense) if you think about the microlenses that had to be put onto the edge sensors of the M8 to make M lenses work on it, and realise that the Micro 4/3rds do not have these micro lenses, then a change of adaptor is not likely to make any difference. I'd like to be proved wrong though!

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Yes, I realize it is the 1.4, but is it the 1.4 ASPH or the 1.4 pre-ASPH? The pre-ASPH does have some CA even on Leicas and film, but the 50/1.4 ASPH should not really have any. But I do understand the point about the marriage of lens and sensor...sometimes it just does not work as well as it does when using native lenses.
    It's the ASPH, a retlatively recent and still very current lens that also happens to be the finest lens I've ever owned!

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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    It's with the cameraquest adaptor which seems very well made. According to Sean Reid (and this makes sense) if you think about the microlenses that had to be put onto the edge sensors of the M8 to make M lenses work on it, and realise that the Micro 4/3rds do not have these micro lenses, then a change of adaptor is not likely to make any difference. I'd like to be proved wrong though!

    Tim, In my experience, if there are shiny exposed metal parts in the optical path (as in an unpainted adapter or most Leica lenses with their RF coupling rings) then that causes problems and induce lateral chromatic aberration on the G1. Cameraquest adapter is the same as the RayQual, I think. That should be good.

    Any other lens (apo or garden variety- almost all of them) do not show any CA.

    To check this, take a lens that does not show CA and put a piece of aluminum foil in the optical path (rear of the lens). This would induce CA.

    Not a matter of microlenses on the sensor at all, IME. I would check if there are rubbed metal parts in your Summilux.

  35. #35
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: AEL/AFL on E-P1

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tim, In my experience, if there are shiny exposed metal parts in the optical path (as in an unpainted adapter or most Leica lenses with their RF coupling rings) then that causes problems and induce lateral chromatic aberration on the G1. Cameraquest adapter is the same as the RayQual, I think. That should be good.

    Any other lens (apo or garden variety- almost all of them) do not show any CA.

    To check this, take a lens that does not show CA and put a piece of aluminum foil in the optical path (rear of the lens). This would induce CA.

    Not a matter of microlenses on the sensor at all, IME. I would check if there are rubbed metal parts in your Summilux.

    Nope, no rubbed parts... here's an example from a cropped frame:
    Attachment 19496

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