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Thread: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi,

    since Terry couldn't help me with a lens comparaison with the 45-200mm at relatively long focal length, I decided to give it a go myself. My personal goal being to determine how well the Panny performs at longer focal lengths.

    I own 4 lenses with a focal length approx 150mm :

    Panasonic kitlens 45-200mm (f5.2 @ 150mm)
    Nikon series E zoom 75-150mm (f3.5)
    cine-Kodak Telephoto 152mm (f4.5)
    Konica Hexanon AR 135mm (f3.5)

    and I went for a shoot-out @ maximum opening / f5.6 / f8 / f11 on a tripod in our local park.

    Let me show you the results in the next 4 posts.

    Please, answer only after I'm done with the uploading !

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Here's the results @ fully open :


    Kodak @ 4.5


    Konica @ 3.5


    Nikon @ 3.5


    Panny @ 5.2

    100% crops of the windows on which I did the manual focusing :


    Kodak


    Konica


    Nikon


    Panny

    Kodak and Konica seem soft to me, Nikon is sharper and more contrasted, but shows a lot of CA at full opening.
    Panny performs very well, but don't forget that we are a stop slower than the Nikon !

    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    this is @ f5.6 :


    Kodak @ 5.6


    Konica @ 5.6


    Nikon @ 5.6


    Panny @ 5.6

    and the 100% crops :


    Kodak


    Konica


    Nikon


    Panny

    The Kodak clears up a little, but remains the softest.
    Little difference for the Panny, almost no difference in opening also.
    Nikon still has a little CA but remains the sharpest and most contrasted.

    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Here's @ f8 :


    Kodak


    Konica


    Nikon


    Panny

    and the crops :


    Kodak


    Konica


    Nikon


    Panny

    Kodak remains the softest, doesn't seem to get any better any more
    Konica, Nikon and the Panny are now fully sharp and contrasted, and Nikon has no more CA

    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    and finally, the results at f11 :


    Kodak


    Konica


    Nikon


    Panny

    and the 100% crops :


    Kodak


    Konica


    Nikon


    Panny

    In the end, it's a close finish between the Nikon (remember, it's a series E lens, also more than 20years old, and it was not expensive at all at that time) and the Panny.
    Konica performs well, just behind Nikon and Panny.
    The Kodak c-mount is very useable, but a lot softer. Could be a good lens for shooting people in the distance.

    I hope you did find my test shooting interesting !

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    In the end, it's a close finish between the Nikon (remember, it's a series E lens, also more than 20years old, and it was not expensive at all at that time) and the Panny.
    Konica performs well, just behind Nikon and Panny.
    The Kodak c-mount is very useable, but a lot softer. Could be a good lens for shooting people in the distance.
    Rafael,

    Thank you for this interesting comparison. This Nikon lens is known to be excellent in spite of its relatively low price. Your test shows it deserves its reputation. I had not used it on the G1 but now shall try it and see if I can live with its manual focusing. Its disadvantage is the push-pull zooming which is very easy to change accidentally. I do not remember it it keeps the focus at various zoom ranges or if you have te re-focus it as the zoom rate changes.

    Thanks again for your excellent report.
    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Smile Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hello Rafael,
    The results of your lens tests are very informative. I had used the Nikon 75-150mm lens with the Kodachrome or the Ektachrome during the days of non-digital imaging. The Nikon zoom lens consistenly produced some of the sharpest images in color transparencies. Either Popular Photography Magazine or Modern Photography Magazine ran a test of the Nikon 75-150mm lens many years ago in the U.S., and their test results also showed remarkablly high resolving powers of the Nikon lens. I still have the lens and enjoy using it occasionally with my digital SLR. Best regards, Leica 77

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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Kodak 78mm c-mount

    I've just acquired this lens - and although it is tricky to use, the softness is appealing

    Keith

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi Peter & Leica77

    I admit that I was also really surprised and impressed by that little Nikon Series E zoom.
    It produces remarkably sharp images, and it's a full stop faster than the Panny.

    I'm certainly going to use it much more often, after this shoot-out.
    Also, I'll try and check the focus at different focal lengths asap and report on that.

    Fazit : G1 and Nikon SE 75-150, a very nice combination if you don't mind the manual focusing.
    If you need autofocus, the Panny is also a great performer.

    Have a nice day,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Also, I'll try and check the focus at different focal lengths asap and report on that.
    Rafael,

    I tried it out on the Nikon on the G1. It does have to be re-focused as you zoom in or out, making for very slow operation.

    Another excellent vintage (1971) Nikkor lens is the 105mm/2.5: very sharp even at full aperture, with a nice bokeh and color rendition





    Nikkor 105mm/2.5 on the Panasonic G1




    Nikkor 105mm/2.5 on the Panasonic G1




    Nyon (Switzerland) Yacht Harbour - Nikkor 105mm/2.5 on G1 - 1/800 @ f/2.5 - ISO=100



    1:1 (100%) crop

    Cheers
    Peter
    Last edited by petermcwerner; 13th July 2009 at 02:47.
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Another excellent vintage Nikkor lens is the 105mm/2.5: very sharp even at full aperture, with a nice bokeh and color rendition
    I have one of those as well, Peter !

    I'll try to make more shoot-outs between my Nikkor glass and the Pannies over the next days or so. Stay tuned

    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    It does have to be re-focused as you zoom in or out
    You're right, Peter (not that I ever doubted about that ), I just checked it on my lens.

    But guess what ? I also checked the focus of the Panny (in MF) and it also needs refocusing. And, it seems to me that it even needs more change in distance setting,
    when you just zoom in from 75 to 150mm

    Since the Panny has no distance scale or indication on it, refocusing is easier on the Nikon !

    I wonder if there are zoomlenses that need no refocusing at all ?

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    ... a lens comparaison with the 45-200mm at relatively long focal length,
    ...
    Panasonic kitlens 45-200mm (f5.2 @ 150mm)
    Nikon series E zoom 75-150mm (f3.5)
    cine-Kodak Telephoto 152mm (f4.5)
    Konica Hexanon AR 135mm (f3.5)
    thanks for the comparison ... can you tell me if you used JPG or RAW for this? I know that the Pany lens will have some post processing done on it and I've found that when comparing my kit lens with other lenses that this makes a difference. I have sort of standardaised on dcraw as my testing conversion engine with -T to get it to do a TIFF and keep it at 8 bit (although -4 will give 16 bit if desired). It performs more uniform compairsons as:
    By default, dcraw uses a fixed white balance based on a color chart illuminated with a standard D65 lamp.
    :-)

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi, pellicle,

    it's all jpg directly from the camera.
    No IP at all

    jpg setting was HQ

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    it's all jpg directly from the camera.
    No IP at all
    I'm not sure if you know it but the camera does IP on lenses which are in its database (such as the Panasonic lens). This may make that lens look a little nicer.

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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    An interesting comparison, I enjoyed it as was suprised by the Panny to be honest.

    Thanks you

    Phil

  17. #17
    tripper
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    You went to a lot of trouble Rafael and I found it interesting. I only have the Panny 45-200mm and I saw nothing in your test to make me regret owning this lens. I assume none of the others had O.I.S or equivalent ?
    Here is a shot I took recently with this lens.

    Acrocephalus schoenobaenus 'Sedge Warbler'

    Panasonic 45-200mm @ 200mm f/6.3 1/400s iso200



    tripper

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi, tripper,

    thanks for showing your appreciation.

    There is absolutely nothing that should make you regret owning this 45-200mm Panny. It's a great lens, even if it seems that software helps to make the pictures look better. I don't care about that, it's the result that counts for me
    No AF, no IS on any of the lenses, except on the Panny. But the Panny pictures are also shot in MF.

    and, tripper, that's one superb birdshot you show us here.
    Thanks for sharing that, it's one of the best birdshots I've ever seen

    C U,
    Rafael
    Last edited by f6cvalkyrie; 13th July 2009 at 07:16.
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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    I wonder if there are zoomlenses that need no refocusing at all ?
    Rafael,

    Most need refocusing, some of the best hold the focus, for instance the Angenieux 70-210 mm f/3.5 : it holds focus throughout the zoom, wide open f/3.5 I have one in Leica R mount, never tried it on the G1, but I loved it on the DMR. Example in the Salzburg Roofs on a Rainy Afternoon.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Last edited by petermcwerner; 13th July 2009 at 08:12.
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    YI also checked the focus of the Panny (in MF) and it also needs refocusing. And, it seems to me that it even needs more change in distance setting, when you just zoom in from 75 to 150mm. Since the Panny has no distance scale or indication on it, refocusing is easier on the Nikon !
    Rafael,

    That is where AF comes in handy. I cannot imagine myself successfully focusing manually while zooming.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Hi !

    I've been searching the web on this focusing problem when changing FL.
    It seems that manufacturers and photographers are using the word "zoom" in a wrong context

    Real "zoomlenses" are common in TV and cinema, where one zooms in to max FL in order to have the easiest and most precise focusing on the right position. And then, they zoom out to the wanted composition.
    TV and cinema operators do also need sharp images throughout while recording and zooming.

    So, real zoomlenses should remain in focus while changing FL !

    Other users, like us photographers, do not necessarily need an image that remains in focus while changing focal length. We can first determine the composition and then focus. Lenses that do change focus while changing FL should ideally be called "variable focal length lenses" to differentiate them from the real "zooms"

    Peter, I suppose your zoom from Angenieux comes from a movie camera ?

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Many zoomlenses are true parfocal lenses. The Pany 45-200 definitely is not, but that should not matter much unless used on the GH1 for movies and zoomed on manual focus.

    Check the near focus on this lens in manual focus. It is much closer at 45mm than at 200mm while not touching the focus ring.

    Henning

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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    With respect to the lens test; the Konica f/3.5 135mm Hexanons are not their best; the earlier ones are a bit better but the later ones were definitely built to a price and are the same formula as the previously marketed Hexars. The best is the 135/3.2.

    I don't have all the adapters I want yet; the Konica will come.

    Henning

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Tripper

    Quote Originally Posted by tripper View Post
    I only have the Panny 45-200mm
    Here is a shot I took recently with this lens.

    Acrocephalus schoenobaenus 'Sedge Warbler'

    Panasonic 45-200mm @ 200mm f/6.3 1/400s iso200
    and gosh isn't that a nice shot!

    I would like to ask you about the AF of this lens. I've previously used USM Canon lenses and as the technology in the G1 is the same I wonder if the AF is the same?

    Do you find the AF to be fast on it?

    Have you tried AF-C as well?

    while I presently lack an AF telephoto I am wondering if this one is fast, you've certainly shown its sharp enough :-)

    Thanks for your time

  25. #25
    tripper
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Tripper

    and gosh isn't that a nice shot!

    I would like to ask you about the AF of this lens. I've previously used USM Canon lenses and as the technology in the G1 is the same I wonder if the AF is the same?

    Do you find the AF to be fast on it?

    Have you tried AF-C as well?

    while I presently lack an AF telephoto I am wondering if this one is fast, you've certainly shown its sharp enough :-)

    Thanks for your time
    First let me say thank you' pellicle for your kind words

    I am not sure I can really offer you any reassurance on the AF-C speed of the 45-200mm, I have not owned the lens long and have not shot anything where AF-C is needed. I am not normally a 'birder' I just got lucky when out walking with this bird shot. I certainly have no complaints as regards the AF-S with the lens or the G1 with any Panasonic lens. I have no experience with the Canon USM as I use Minolta/Sony dSLr equipment but question your statement

    "I've previously used USM Canon lenses and as the technology in the G1 is the same"

    I understood dSLR's use Phase detect AF where the G1 uses Contrast detect ? one of the more knowledgable members will correct me if I am wrong.

    tripper

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    Quote Originally Posted by tripper View Post
    "I've previously used USM Canon lenses and as the technology in the G1 is the same"

    I understood dSLR's use Phase detect AF where the G1 uses Contrast detect ? one of the more knowledgable members will correct me if I am wrong.
    the technology doing the mechanical driving the lens elements (something moves in there right ...) is the same as USM (as Nikon also now have something similar too) however the input to the CPU (which controls the lens) is of course different in nature (phase detect vs contrast detect). There is much more to determining AF speed than simply the detection system, the lens's ability to stop when told and how quickly it accelerates to begin moving has a large bearing on the speed and accuracy.

    So an EOS 1D III will not AF any faster with a EF50 f1.8 mounted on it than my 10D does ... or my EOS 630 for that matter ;-)

    From what I've seen with my G1 and my kit lens the AF speed is as good as any USM motors on lenses such as the 28-105 USM ... what I don't know is how well the G1 copes with telephoto (always more of a test)

    so ... is it

    zeeeeeeeeeeeep and insert optional hunting or missed focus
    or

    zip

    thanks :-)

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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1 approx 150mm lens comparaison

    More comparison shoots, 4 different lenses on the G1 and the same shot with the Nikon D700. The various lenses, all top lenses in their category, give very similar results on the G1. The big difference in color rendition comes from the Nikon. I personally prefer the rendition of the G1, it approaches the character of the Leica M8 and R9+DMR, but this is a very personal choice.

    First, what the lenses look like:



    Angenieux 3x70, 70-210mm/3.5



    The same Angenieux 70-210 from a different angle



    Kern Macro Switar 50mm/1.9



    Leitz Macro-Elmarit R 60mm/2.8



    Nikon D700 with 90mm/2.8 Sigma Macro



    Here the results of the shootout:



    Angenieux 70-210mm/3.5 on the G1



    Kern Macro Switar 50mm/1.9 on the G1



    Leica Macro Elmarit 60mm/2.8 on G1



    Nikon D700 with 90mm/2.8 Sigma Macro

    The Angenieux, while giving excellent IQ, as do the other lenses on the G1, is really too big to be agreeable to use on the G1. The color rendition of the Switar is slightly cooler and with less contrast, but that can easily be fixed during postprocessing.
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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