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Thread: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

  1. #101
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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I totally agree that is is a silly debate--as was the 5D vs. the M8. Glad I missed that one LOL.

    I think, for those that like the 4/3rds sensor, want smaller and a VF AND can afford both, it would be a great pair. I'm still thinking I will likely buy an evolution of the Pen style from one of the mfg. down the road as I'm finding that the 4/3rds sensor works for me for a lot of my shooting these days--and the 5D, while I love output, just gets left at home quite a lot.

    Diane
    That is my feeling as well Diane. After sitting unused on a shelf for almost a year I finally put up my E-3 and M8 gear for sale and moved on. I've not experienced any limitations in file quality for prints up to 18x24 inches using the G1 for the past 9 months and I'm delighted with the camera performance and versatility. Just picked up an E-P1 with kit lens for backup and snapshot use. Not sure yet how it will fit in with the G1, but so far no major complaints. I used a Ricoh GRD for a few years so the P&S shooting style is basically the same and familiar.

    Carl

    E-P1 shot with kit lens, RAW image processed in RawDeveloper:



    My E-P1 Gallery

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Nice Carl--I love the little buzzy critter (not bee I'm assuming because of size) to the right--and the nicely OOF (maybe echinops??) in the rear.

    Interesting to hear what others are doing--esp. when certain things change in their lives. I'm no longer doing any commercial work but do sell some prints--so I question do I need more than the m4/3rds? For now--I'm doing nothing, but expect I will likely add another m4/3fds body in the next year--probably sooner--and then I'll consider about selling my Canon gear.

    Diane

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Nice Carl--I love the little buzzy critter (not bee I'm assuming because of size) to the right--and the nicely OOF (maybe echinops??) in the rear.

    Interesting to hear what others are doing--esp. when certain things change in their lives. I'm no longer doing any commercial work but do sell some prints--so I question do I need more than the m4/3rds? For now--I'm doing nothing, but expect I will likely add another m4/3fds body in the next year--probably sooner--and then I'll consider about selling my Canon gear.

    Diane
    Diane - if the cameras and lenses are sitting on the shelf for months without use, it's time to sell and move on. Unless you are a collector.

    I have dozens of cameras, film and digital, but I sold my entire Pentax K10 kit a few weeks ago because I was not using it, and I don't miss it. I've moved to small sensor and m4/3 because I have always liked small cameras. I'm probably what could be described as an advanced amateur. Olympus and Panasonic have done us photographers a favor with this new platform.

    Love my G1 and my E-P1 (even though it is without EVF) - I know m4/3 will do well and we have lots to look forward to.

    Keith

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    I am in San Antonio, TX for a conference and was out on the River Walk this afternoon. Shooting candid street shoots is easy with the EP1. No one seems to notice. I went into an Irish Pub, as an experiment in photography of course, and shot candids in available light and even a video of the sing-along-piano player, again in available light, no flash using the 17mm pancake lens. How cool is that? Both stills and HD video with stereo sound. I will upload later after I go do some work that I came here to do. P.S. only a couple of beers later by the way.
    V/r John

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Hope you handle heat well, John!

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Diane - if the cameras and lenses are sitting on the shelf for months without use, it's time to sell and move on. Unless you are a collector.

    I have dozens of cameras, film and digital, but I sold my entire Pentax K10 kit a few weeks ago because I was not using it, and I don't miss it. I've moved to small sensor and m4/3 because I have always liked small cameras. I'm probably what could be described as an advanced amateur. Olympus and Panasonic have done us photographers a favor with this new platform.

    Love my G1 and my E-P1 (even though it is without EVF) - I know m4/3 will do well and we have lots to look forward to.

    Keith
    It would still be tough for me to sell my 5D--not quite ready to do that yet--and I do shoot with it some though not a great deal--prior to January I probably shot with it 4 or more times a week. I also don't think I would get much for it--lots of shooting done with it in over 3.5 years, though still in great shape. I may pass on a 400D to someone wanting a starter camera and the 10DIR is still fun to occasionally use and a number of generations old--plus a niche camera. I'll probably sell enough to pay for the second m4/3rds down the line though it will more likely be lenses than cameras.

    I have quite a few EF lenses and am willing to eat my words --because I said I'd never use my big EF lenses on the G1. Well--I have and its fun (though they defeat the idea of small/light). I spent the afternoon shooting with my 45 f/2.8 TS and a day last week with the 20 f/1.8 and 28 f/1.8---so not sure what I'll decide. I don't think I have to be in a hurry to get rid of lenses--at least some of them.

    I'm just not sure I want to move completely away from my FF. On a recent trip, I had the G1 with several lenses, AF and MF, but I took my 5D also with the 50 f/1.4--and actually shot with it about 1/3 of the time where I didn't have comparable with the G1.

    So--though I think I could live with only my G1 and one other body, its hard to make the decision yet (not easy to go back if I find I've made a mistake). I suspect that though there will be a time when I'll sell quite a few of the lenses, I don't think I will ever decide to sell the 5D body itself (though it may not be a rational decision ).

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Just picked up an E-P1 with kit lens for backup and snapshot use. Not sure yet how it will fit in with the G1, but so far no major complaints.
    Carl ,

    Not having an E-P1, nor being able to use/test one, I wonder how you can achieve precise focus without a viewfinder, be it an EVF, reflex or rangefinder.

    Your excellent macro is perfectly sharp. Did you use autofocus? How can you achieve precise manual focus or is this camera just meant to be used with AF? My uninformed impression is that the LCD might be good enough for framing but not for focusing.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Another question for Carl:

    Could you check the IR sensitivity of E-P1 and G1 with the same lens/filter combo? Thanks!

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Carl ,

    Not having an E-P1, nor being able to use/test one, I wonder how you can achieve precise focus without a viewfinder, be it an EVF, reflex or rangefinder.

    Your excellent macro is perfectly sharp. Did you use autofocus? How can you achieve precise manual focus or is this camera just meant to be used with AF? My uninformed impression is that the LCD might be good enough for framing but not for focusing.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter,

    That shot was hand held using autofocus. I prefer doing macros with the G1, using MF on the articulated LCD and with the camera on a tripod. Manual focusing with the E-P1 LCD is a bit awkward for me shooting hand held, but I'm still in learning mode with this camera. I don't find that the lower LCD resolution of the E-P1 limits sharp focusing, but I do prefer using the G1 LCD for tripod work simply because the ergonomics are superior.

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Another question for Carl:

    Could you check the IR sensitivity of E-P1 and G1 with the same lens/filter combo? Thanks!
    Vivek, I'll take a couple of shots today and post the comparison.

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Vivek, I'll take a couple of shots today and post the comparison.

    Regards,
    Carl
    Vivek,

    Here are two IR images taken with the E-P1 and G1. Both with the CV 25mm f/4p Skopar and B+W 092 filter. Both at ISO 200, but with +1 exp compensation on the E-P1. Both at aperture of f/8. Exposure times were 0.8 sec for the E-P1 and 2.5 sec for the G1. The E-P1 appears to have higher IR sensitivity than the G1. Both were shot in RAW and processed in Raw Developer. Exported tif files were then converted to B&W in LR using SEP plugin.

    E-P1



    G1


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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Carl ,

    Not having an E-P1, nor being able to use/test one, I wonder how you can achieve precise focus without a viewfinder, be it an EVF, reflex or rangefinder.

    Your excellent macro is perfectly sharp. Did you use autofocus? How can you achieve precise manual focus or is this camera just meant to be used with AF? My uninformed impression is that the LCD might be good enough for framing but not for focusing.

    Cheers
    Peter
    HI Peter
    You might like to look at these:

    Macro and nature with the E-P1

    All hand held, mostly either over my head or at arms length poking through branches - it was windy too, which made it more tricky. Basically, you use AF with MF assist, hold the camera with two hands, use autofocus to get nearly there, then tweak the mf to get it perfect - it zooms in and allows you to get pin-point focus. It isn't foolproof (what is), but it's pretty easy and it works.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Hi Scho,

    I do not expect that much a difference between EP-1 & G1 shots using the same lens. I believe that I can see a lot more details from the G1 shot which is quite a bit sharper too.

    Is it because of the focusing when you take the shots or there is really some difference in IQ from the two cameras? Results from post processing?

    I have bought and used G1 (with two kit lenses) for a few days before gave them to my daughter for her birthday. Was using my friend's EP-1 with the 14-42 lens last weekend while he used the other EP-1 with the 17 pancake lens. I really enjoyed shooting with the EP-1 and the IQ was quite nice under good lighting condition. I am currently still waiting for GH-1 while shooting with my Canon 1 series bodies & lenses.
    Last edited by slau; 27th July 2009 at 12:20.
    Stephen Lau
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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by slau View Post
    Hi Scho,

    I do not expect that much a difference between EP-1 & G1 shots using the same lens. I believe that I can see a lot more details from the G1 shot which is quite a bit sharper too.

    Is it because of the focusing when you take the shots or there is really some difference in IQ from the two cameras? Results from post processing?

    I have bought and used G1 (with two kit lenses) for a few days before gave them to my daughter for her birthday. Was using my friend's EP-1 with the 14-42 lens last weekend while he used the other EP-1 with the 17 pancake lens. I really enjoyed shooting with the EP-1 and the IQ was quite nice under good lighting condition. I am currently still waiting for GH-1 while shooting with my Canon 1 series bodies & lenses.
    Stephen, I wouldn't try to make any judgements about relative sharpness in this test. It was done only to compare IR response of the two cameras with the same lens and filter. I used aperture priority mode with both cameras and the E-P1 tended to underexpose with the B+W 092 filter, hence the +1 EC. Both were of course manually focused and w/o doing multiple exposures for comparison it is difficult to rule out focusing errors. Note also that it was windy and these were long exposures so foliage will be blurry.

    Regards,
    Carl
    Last edited by scho; 27th July 2009 at 12:36. Reason: additional comment

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Stephen, I wouldn't try to make any judgements about relative sharpness in this test. It was done only to compare IR response of the two cameras with the same lens and filter. I used aperture priority mode with both cameras and the E-P1 tended to underexpose with the B+W 092 filter, hence the +1 EC. Both were of course manually focused and w/o doing multiple exposures for comparison it is difficult to rule out focusing errors. Note also that it was windy and these were long exposures so foliage will be blurry.

    Regards,
    Carl
    Hi Carl,
    Thank you for your explanation. I know the danger of trying to judge anything form resized jpeg files. Also, I don't think the two cameras will have too much a difference in IQ.

    What bothers me is: while the center portion of the two images are very very close in IQ, the quality of the edges are a completely different story. May be just the movement of leaves, or a different focal plane. Btw, it is interesting to know that the two sensors (supposed to be identical) show a different response to IR or the B+W filter. Thank you for sharing the test results.
    Stephen Lau
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    http://www.pbase.com/stephenl

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Vivek,

    Here are two IR images taken with the E-P1 and G1. Both with the CV 25mm f/4p Skopar and B+W 092 filter. Both at ISO 200, but with +1 exp compensation on the E-P1. Both at aperture of f/8. Exposure times were 0.8 sec for the E-P1 and 2.5 sec for the G1. The E-P1 appears to have higher IR sensitivity than the G1. Both were shot in RAW and processed in Raw Developer. Exported tif files were then converted to B&W in LR using SEP plugin.
    Hi Carl, Thanks a bunch! That confirms my suspicion.It isn't much but is noticeable.

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Peter
    You might like to look at these:

    Macro and nature with the E-P1

    All hand held, mostly either over my head or at arms length poking through branches - it was windy too, which made it more tricky. Basically, you use AF with MF assist, hold the camera with two hands, use autofocus to get nearly there, then tweak the mf to get it perfect - it zooms in and allows you to get pin-point focus. It isn't foolproof (what is), but it's pretty easy and it works.
    Thank you for the exlpanation, Jono. Beautiful shots!
    Cheers
    Peter
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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    I really am really loving this camera. It is just different than p&s or dslr.






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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    I just had an E_P1 in my hand for the first time side by side with the G1.
    While I can see that its an attractive camera I still thought the size difference between the E-P1 and the G1 would be bigger.
    I found the E-P1 and zoom lens to be bigger than I had expected.
    Also I found the G1 rubbered surface seems more resistant compared to the glossy surface of the E-P1.
    Now I would be tempted to have the hd video which is only in the e-p1 or gh1 but not in the g1.
    Anyways - I think neither the e-p1 nor the g1 are pocket cameras, so my first impression would be that for me the G1/GH1 would fit better.
    better grip, for my taste better (rubberized) surface, flexible display and the EVF as an add on (I guess for manual focus and brioght condition it could be a real bonus). The G1 lens comes with a hood (which never hurts).
    The E-P1 seems nearly as big as an M8 to me.

    A nice camera for sure, but I really think one needs to carefully decide which one fiots the needs better, G1 or E-P1

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    I have now had the opportunity to use the E-P1 for a couple of week including on a recent trip to San Antonio. Here is what I have found so far:

    1. I miss the viewfinder of the G1. In bright sunlight or in dim light the EVF is superior to the LCD.
    2. While the articulating LCD of the G1 is nice, the viewing angle visibility of the E-P1 is sufficient that I didn't miss that as much as I thought I would.
    3. The G1 focusing is definitely much faster but I found it to be a little less accurate. What I mean by that is using spot focusing (the green rectangle as the object to be in focus) and listening for the confirming beep and then shooting, I found G1 images that were out of focus and I have not seen that on the E-P1.
    4. Size comparison, the E-P1 just feels smaller and with the leather half case and strap (see my images in other threads) it is much easier to carry around and almost feels like its not there. I have only carried it with the 17mm pancake as a 34mm effective walk around is about a perfect combo. I have the 14-42 but I haven't even used it. There is a big difference between carrying the E-P1 and an M8, even with the M8 and 28MM f2.8 lens. The M8 is much larger and heavier and you always know it is there.
    5. Highlight exposure. The E-P1 blows highlights very easily and in some cases cannot be overcome. For example I was trying to shoot moon shots last night at a full moon. No setting I could find would allow me to show any moon detail (i.e. man in the moon). All I could get was a white sphere. Of course, this could be due to my lack of skill but I have seen G1 shots that showed a great deal of detail.
    6. E-P1 high ISO noise is better than the G1, especially above ISO 800 where the G1 is basically unusable. The E-P1 can produce usable images up to ISO 3200 and the noise looks more like film grain than large blobs.
    7. Wife Factor. The E-P1 wins this one hands down. My wife was with me and never complained about my having the camera with us or taking pictures with it. With the G1 it was always do you have to take that big ugly thing with us?
    8. Video-since the G1 lacks video it can't compare to the E-P1 and the video is surprisingly good. However, it does blow the highlights very badly. Sound quality and video quality are very good. Part of this may be due to my lack of experience and knowing how to adjust for exposure while shooting video.
    9. The following is purely subjective but I seem to get more keepers with the E-P1 than the G1 but I'm not sure why.
    10. Ergonomically from a usage standpoint, the G1 is a better design. Having more mechanical controls rather than menu button pushes is a big plus and the MF is superior. I find the built in IS to be preferable to the in lens IS as it makes my old Leica and other lenses IS lenses and I can get very good low ISO shots hand held in near dark conditions.
    11. Weighing all of these factors for me I have decided to keep the E-P1 and I am still selling the G1 (I had it sold on Amazon but the buyer wouldn't respond to my emails so I cancelled the sale, something didn't smell right). They are both very good cameras and if the E-P1 had a viewfinder, in spite of its slower focus it would win easily.

    I will post some images with explanation for examples of what I mean.
    V/r John

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Thanks John,
    very interesting read.
    How well do you feel works manual focus with the e-p1?

    I agree that the in camera IS is interesting advantage of the e-p1 vs the G1.

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Here are some photos shot in San Antonio. They were processed in C1 from RAW. I am coming to the conclusion that one needs to underexpose to keep from constantly blowing the highlights.
    Last edited by barjohn; 2nd October 2009 at 15:39.
    V/r John

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    Re: Selling G1 getting E-P1, a Good Decision?

    Here are a few more. Note that the bar scene ones above were taken at ISO200 so there is some motion blur as people moved.
    Last edited by barjohn; 2nd October 2009 at 15:39.
    V/r John

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