Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

[Burningalive]

I need help! I'm not a new photographer, I've shot sports and weddings with high end equipment, I've shot creative photography for years using mostly canon dslr's (just to let you know I'm not crazy.....well at least not really
One of three things are going on here
1.My expectations are too high
2.I don't get the Olympus setting and am doing something wrong
or
3.My camera is broke
I don't understand but every photo I take looks noisy to me! Even at ISO 200! This seems crazy to me with one of the main reasons I wanted this camera was because everyone was saying it's noise levels were so good. I compared shots last night with my Canon 20d photo's and there was NO comparison. The Canon shots are smooth and detailed and the E-P1 shots are very grainy, I did shoot alot at higher ISO's yesterday 400-1600 and all of them looked noisy to me. Only a few in perfect light at ISO 200 looked acceptable to my eye. I must be doing something wrong! I have Noise reduction ON, Noise filter OFF, JPEG Large Superfine. Gradiation NORMAL. Using the natural color setting. IS1 for image stabilization. I can't figure out anything else, also I'm using the 14-42 kit lens. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

 

[woodmancy]

I need help! I'm not a new photographer, I've shot sports and weddings with high end equipment, I've shot creative photography for years using mostly canon dslr's (just to let you know I'm not crazy.....well at least not really
One of three things are going on here
1.My expectations are too high
2.I don't get the Olympus setting and am doing something wrong
or
3.My camera is broke
Thanks.

My camera arrives today, so I can tell you tomorrow if it is up to expectations. Is this your first camera with a 4/3 chip?
Download one of the many files in the E-p1 reviews and see if you get the same impression.

 

[Burningalive]

Yes this is my first 4/3 camera.

 

[jonoslack]

The Canon shots are smooth and detailed and the E-P1 shots are very grainy,

Is this looking at 100% on screen?
or is it in print?

Certainly, Canon produce very smooth looking files, and the EP1 files do look grainy at 100% on screen . . . if you're shooting jpg. But prints are fine, and the detail is great.

I'd certainly recommend looking at some RAW files to see if they're different.

 

[pellicle]

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

you know it drives me nuts when folks ask this but fail to post a single sample of a 100% view of an image for anyone to evaluate ... unless you want me to just answer with cliche's or agreements I can't do or say much without it.

also, while you're at it how about a sample of what you don't think is noisy.

preferably the same subject in the same conditions on another camera which you don't think is noisy.

Point: at first sight I thought that my G1 images were noisier than my 10D images ... but when I realized that there was so much more detail in there... so I tried down sampling them to same pixel sizes as the 10D and the noise wasn't there anymore (but then neither was the extra detail ; - )

 

[pellicle]

I've had a 20D too ... and didn't find it startling in comparison to my 10D images ... certainly nowhere near as good as my G1 panasonic. I was quite reluctant to part with my 10D but after dozens of tests I realised that it was quite good.

You might also want to look at my writings on this page. Scroll down to the print section and observe the reduction of "speckle" in prints from drumscans and the effects of gaussian blur applied ... what I'm saying essentially is that some noise will be lost when printing even at 100% native resolution. Meaning that if you print to 13 inches wide at 300dpi printed. I had one printed from a Durst Epsilon (native 254dpi) at full size and it looked fine

 

[Burningalive]

pellicle....I hear ya....No reason to get all snappy though I agree it would help if I had some examples but unfortunatly i'm at work and I don't have them with me. Yes I am looking 100% crops when I say that....although last night I shot some that I though were noisy even with it fit to screen and they were only at like 400 ISO but......that being said I was playing with alot of settings last night and it could have been me. This morning I shot some test shots all at ISO 100 and was quite pleased with the results. Here's a link to those shots (you can view full size there too)
http://burningalive.smugmug.com/gallery/8988422_mC6HK#597565856_WUkqB
I don't have a problem with these shots really at all. I will experiment more this afternoon with some different ISO's and see what I think now.

Also I no longer have the 20d so I will be unable to do a direct comparison....but I have thousands of shots that I'm very happy with with the 20d, I just want to be just as happy with the E-p1. I'm not giving up on the camera yet, I'm just looking for input. Thanks.

 

[durrIII]

I am new to Olympus, also and I, too found the menu driven controls quite odd. But if you ever figure it out, the E-P1 is a very nice machine. And quite capable of taking great images. Have a little patience and it will come, I hope! I am still figuring it out. Good Luck. the folks on this site a very helpful if you ask a specific question. -Durr

 

[bcaslis]

If you are seeing a lot of noise in pictures make sure you don't have gradation set to auto. Olympus seems to almost recommend this and it happens automatically if you use their default setting to turn face recognition off via the function button. I think the results are terrible and they add lots of noise to the pictures. It's supposed to be similar to Nikon's Active D-lighting, but I get noise even at ISO 200 with this. Set your gradation setting to normal and you will be a lot happier.

 

[nostatic]

Probably part settings error, part expectations. I find these files to be "noisy" compared to my K20d. But I like the look a lot, and you can deal with it in pp. I'm shooting gradation "normal" and all NR off with a bit of contrast and sharpness dialed in. I find things to be very crisp with a lot of detail.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

pellicle....I hear ya....No reason to get all snappy though

apologies ... my offered excuse (but not justification) is that living in Finland these last few years has made me more terse than I once was (Finns are even worse than me) and I'm perhaps getting up to threshold on ill thought out questions (although I'm as much a culprit when the shoe is on the other foot)

I agree it would help if I had some examples but unfortunatly i'm at work and I don't have them with me. Yes I am looking 100% crops when I say that....although last night I shot some that I though were noisy even with it fit to screen

could be the 'resample' algorithm at work there ... I've got a 4000dpi scan of negative that looks like a sand pit when "fit to screen" but prints lovely...

This morning I shot some test shots all at ISO 100 and was quite pleased with the results. Here's a link to those shots (you can view full size there too)
http://burningalive.smugmug.com/gallery/8988422_mC6HK#597565856_WUkqB

well I looked at one or two and thought they were ok too ... especially when converting to black and white I've found things look worse ...
I don't have a problem with these shots really at all. I will experiment more this afternoon with some different ISO's and see what I think now.

Also I no longer have the 20d so I will be unable to do a direct comparison....but I have thousands of shots that I'm very happy with with the 20d, I just want to be just as happy with the E-p1. I'm not giving up on the camera yet, I'm just looking for input. Thanks.

my input is that while per pixel noise ratios "might" be slightly higher than the 20D the extra pixels (4000 vs 3500) makes up for some of it. There is however a pixel density increase of nearly double (smaller sensor bigger pixel count), since the camera is more compact (both in sensor and in build) I think that the lord of physics giveth with one hand and taketh with the other. To paraphrase some monty python:

and the lord did hear the cries of Victor and verilly slew the mass he had hanging around his neck, and caused the weight to be smaller and the mirror slap to be gone. And Victor in his complaint of more signal to noise ratio did cry out that the lord was a rotten bastard. And so the lord sent Victor an angel to comfort him for the weekend ... and entered they together the studio ... ahmen

anyway ... like I said ... pardon if I was snappy

ni

 

[Burningalive]

Thanks for the reply, I did post some I took this morning on the way into work but they were all taken with 100 ISO and really didn't represent what I was originally complaining about. I took some this after noon with ISO's from 100 to 800 and honestly I quite liked what I got. I don't know.....maybe I'm crazy. I was mainly shooting my kids last night and it just didn't seem like the quality was there, perhaps I need to give it more than two days

 

[nostatic]

Thanks for the reply, I did post some I took this morning on the way into work but they were all taken with 100 ISO and really didn't represent what I was originally complaining about. I took some this after noon with ISO's from 100 to 800 and honestly I quite liked what I got. I don't know.....maybe I'm crazy. I was mainly shooting my kids last night and it just didn't seem like the quality was there, perhaps I need to give it more than two days

Here's what I'm finding - this camera is all about expectations.

First off, shoot iso200 rather than 100. Evidently 200 is native for the sensor so that's going to give you the "best" image.

I originally wasn't that thrilled with some of the images that I saw posted here. But others intrigued me, and I was specifically looking for something that handled somewhat like my DLux4 but had a better file. The E-P1 is a quirky camera - not quite p&s, not quite dSLR. If you go in expecting the files to look like they came out of a D300 or 5D you'll be disappointed. What I was hoping was that I'd get a different "look" than a p&s with a file I could push around a bit more and better iq. I was not expecting the files to look as good as those coming from my K20d. And I got what I expected.

This camera isn't magic. A 4/3 sensor just isn't going to give you the resolution-s/n-dr of an APS-C. And that's...ok. What I'm finding is that the images coming out of the E-P1 (after changing the default settings) have a great look for what I "see." I like the grain (where others might complain about noise) and the colors have a different quality than either my DLux4 or K20d.

So don't compare the shots with other cameras. Just use it and see if you get what you're seeing and what you can do with it.

Oh, and I might be nuts but I love this camera at iso1600. The noise looks very much like film grit to me, and it is more pleasing than the noise from either my small sensor or APS-C.

 

[jonoslack]

Thanks for the reply, I did post some I took this morning on the way into work but they were all taken with 100 ISO and really didn't represent what I was originally complaining about. I took some this after noon with ISO's from 100 to 800 and honestly I quite liked what I got. I don't know.....maybe I'm crazy. I was mainly shooting my kids last night and it just didn't seem like the quality was there, perhaps I need to give it more than two days

I think there is a mindset issue. Canon have been really good at producing 'smooth and noise free images' Olympus (and Leica and Sony) have been lighter handed, with more noise (but possibly better colour and detail). I think it's a matter of taste, but what is certainly true is that moving from one to another is culture shock!

 

[jonoslack]

Hi



apologies ... my offered excuse (but not justification) is that living in Finland these last few years has made me more terse than I once was (Finns are even worse than me) and I'm perhaps getting up to threshold on ill thought out questions (although I'm as much a culprit when the shoe is on the other foot)

Do you live in Finland? Some of my best friends are finns . . I've had a tricky day today, and the sauna in the garden is building up a head of steam.

I was told a joke (by a Finn) about the finnish character:

There were two identical twins, Miko and Veikko, Veikko moved to Canada in 1978, and was making his first return trip 30 years later in 2008. Miko picked him up from the airport, and on the way home:

Miko:
" Would you like a drink before we get home "

Veikko
"Sounds like a great idea"

So, off to the bar, drinks in, they're sitting comfortably:

Veikko
"So Miko - it's been a long time, how have you been doing"

Miko
"Did we come here to talk? or to drink?"

I understand all about terse, but I think the Finns are just lovely, and such good fun.

The Sauna is wood burning . . here it is (taken with the E-P1 of course)

It's at about 55 at the moment - should be ready in half an hour

 

[jonoslack]

And here is a point about the quality from the E-P1. This is the humble kit lens, and a crop from the top right hand corner of the shot above at 100%

it isn't as good as an M8 with a 75mm summicron, but it's around 1/4 the price, and it is NEARLY as good:
100% crop

no sharpening, just straight from the camera

 

[Diane B]

I'm going to stick my nose in here based on Jono's two posts. I will admit I've had a bias against 4/3rds--not actively, just that I couldn't see the pros of it as opposed to the cons--for me. So--I just never looked at 4/3rds cameras--even though years ago I loved my E-10.

So--that's the background--jump to December when I'd been looking for a small camera--just hadn't had any love for my G9, 400D, was watching the DP-1 but didn't feel it was where I wanted to deal with it. The G1 was announced--a 4/3rds sensor. Yikes--what to expect, but, hey--it HAD to be better than the P & S sensors. I bought the G1 based on size/weight and 'decent' images. What I found was that, compared to my 5D which I've had for going on 4 years--there wasn't a huge difference. Some, yes, and yes, the 5D gave me smooth, noise free files--better DR. But--guess what--I've found that when I print those files from both--really virtually no one can tell the difference up to 11 x 17 (if I put them side by side, I can--but its tough and I have to really look and look--and admittedly I shoot in RAW and sometimes 'handle' NR when I've shot in very low light). I can shoot with my 5D and love those prints---but I can shoot with the G1 and really enjoy the shooting experience--and still love those prints.

I think we expect certain things--but I shot with a D30 and D60 back in the days LOL--and a 10D and a 20D LOL---it got better and better--but I still often go back to those D60 shots and am more than pleased. So--I would spend some time with the camera if it appeals to you for more than just looks LOL--and see if your 'inward' biases may be playing a part in you not liking it. No--the files won't be butter smooth and you'll find other things to compare to--but OTOH--consider that inside that little camera is the best 4/3rds sensor that's come down the pike, as I understand it, and realize there are lots of people shooting with a 4/3rds and not being defensive in any way about their images.

Diane

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Do you live in Finland?

I do ... Kouvola to be precise

Some of my best friends are finns . .

lovely to hear ... most of my best friends are Australians, but there are a few Pomms, some Koreans, a couple of Japanese and an Indonesian. There are nice people everywhere.

That is not to say there are not social 'norms' in a country. Having visited England (think drizzel and light rain) I'd say that if I came here from England I'd love the place with its open space and clean nature.

But I came from Australia with much more open spaces, good weather and fantastic places to go camping without needing Gore-Tex for everything.

plus we don't need a Sauna as we get to sweat plenty during the summer ;-)

I was told a joke (by a Finn) about the finnish character:

nice one

Pekka from Tampere area went to the bosses dinner at the bosses home on Saturday night and like everyone sat at the table drinking viinä all night. At around midnight he got up and said "perkele" and walked home.

next morning when getting up he thinks to himself "gosh, why did I blabber on last night"

So give me:
this




which can take me to here



here


here



or here



over

this


or

this


if I don't have to put up with all the other stuff in this distant outpost of civilization. Try buying things like cars, homes, technology - laptops, camera gear, film chemistry or just about anything non-Finnish. If you import it the shipping costs to here are nearly the highest in the EU and if it comes from outside the EU ... yike. Germany has some stuff ... but hey, heaps of Germans won't deal outside of Germany (same goes for UK).

Yep ... the lusture of having a ski track near my home wears thin (especially with the lousy skiing weather we've had these last few winters) quickly when you factor in the whole picture ... and I haven't even started on living cost comparisons to Australia or the food.

So I love lappland to visit (Swedish or Finnish) both in snow or in summer... but can't imagine how I'd earn a living there. But southern Finland ...

All in all its a nice place to visit (some parts of the year) but after 3 years I can assure you I don't want to live here.

 

[pellicle]

...I bought the G1 based on size/weight and 'decent' images. What I found was that, compared to my 5D which ... there wasn't a huge difference.

... but I can shoot with the G1 and really enjoy the shooting experience--and still love those prints.

good points Diane and much the same as how I feel about my G1

besides ... now I can lug my 4x5 field camera and don't have to agonize over should I take a DSLR and lenses too?

;-)

 

[Rawfa]

The day Sigma comes up with a DP3 with interchangeable lenses will be the happier day of my photographer life. Oh, foveon sensor...me love you long time.