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Thread: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

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    Burningalive
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    Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    I need help! I'm not a new photographer, I've shot sports and weddings with high end equipment, I've shot creative photography for years using mostly canon dslr's (just to let you know I'm not crazy.....well at least not really
    One of three things are going on here
    1.My expectations are too high
    2.I don't get the Olympus setting and am doing something wrong
    or
    3.My camera is broke
    I don't understand but every photo I take looks noisy to me! Even at ISO 200! This seems crazy to me with one of the main reasons I wanted this camera was because everyone was saying it's noise levels were so good. I compared shots last night with my Canon 20d photo's and there was NO comparison. The Canon shots are smooth and detailed and the E-P1 shots are very grainy, I did shoot alot at higher ISO's yesterday 400-1600 and all of them looked noisy to me. Only a few in perfect light at ISO 200 looked acceptable to my eye. I must be doing something wrong! I have Noise reduction ON, Noise filter OFF, JPEG Large Superfine. Gradiation NORMAL. Using the natural color setting. IS1 for image stabilization. I can't figure out anything else, also I'm using the 14-42 kit lens. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    I need help! I'm not a new photographer, I've shot sports and weddings with high end equipment, I've shot creative photography for years using mostly canon dslr's (just to let you know I'm not crazy.....well at least not really
    One of three things are going on here
    1.My expectations are too high
    2.I don't get the Olympus setting and am doing something wrong
    or
    3.My camera is broke
    Thanks.
    My camera arrives today, so I can tell you tomorrow if it is up to expectations. Is this your first camera with a 4/3 chip?
    Download one of the many files in the E-p1 reviews and see if you get the same impression.

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    Burningalive
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Yes this is my first 4/3 camera.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    The Canon shots are smooth and detailed and the E-P1 shots are very grainy,
    Is this looking at 100% on screen?
    or is it in print?

    Certainly, Canon produce very smooth looking files, and the EP1 files do look grainy at 100% on screen . . . if you're shooting jpg. But prints are fine, and the detail is great.

    I'd certainly recommend looking at some RAW files to see if they're different.

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.
    you know it drives me nuts when folks ask this but fail to post a single sample of a 100% view of an image for anyone to evaluate ... unless you want me to just answer with cliche's or agreements I can't do or say much without it.

    also, while you're at it how about a sample of what you don't think is noisy.

    preferably the same subject in the same conditions on another camera which you don't think is noisy.

    Point: at first sight I thought that my G1 images were noisier than my 10D images ... but when I realized that there was so much more detail in there... so I tried down sampling them to same pixel sizes as the 10D and the noise wasn't there anymore (but then neither was the extra detail ; - )

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    I've had a 20D too ... and didn't find it startling in comparison to my 10D images ... certainly nowhere near as good as my G1 panasonic. I was quite reluctant to part with my 10D but after dozens of tests I realised that it was quite good.

    You might also want to look at my writings on this page. Scroll down to the print section and observe the reduction of "speckle" in prints from drumscans and the effects of gaussian blur applied ... what I'm saying essentially is that some noise will be lost when printing even at 100% native resolution. Meaning that if you print to 13 inches wide at 300dpi printed. I had one printed from a Durst Epsilon (native 254dpi) at full size and it looked fine :-)

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    Burningalive
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    pellicle....I hear ya....No reason to get all snappy though I agree it would help if I had some examples but unfortunatly i'm at work and I don't have them with me. Yes I am looking 100% crops when I say that....although last night I shot some that I though were noisy even with it fit to screen and they were only at like 400 ISO but......that being said I was playing with alot of settings last night and it could have been me. This morning I shot some test shots all at ISO 100 and was quite pleased with the results. Here's a link to those shots (you can view full size there too)
    http://burningalive.smugmug.com/gall...97565856_WUkqB
    I don't have a problem with these shots really at all. I will experiment more this afternoon with some different ISO's and see what I think now.

    Also I no longer have the 20d so I will be unable to do a direct comparison....but I have thousands of shots that I'm very happy with with the 20d, I just want to be just as happy with the E-p1. I'm not giving up on the camera yet, I'm just looking for input. Thanks.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    I am new to Olympus, also and I, too found the menu driven controls quite odd. But if you ever figure it out, the E-P1 is a very nice machine. And quite capable of taking great images. Have a little patience and it will come, I hope! I am still figuring it out. Good Luck. the folks on this site a very helpful if you ask a specific question. -Durr

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    If you are seeing a lot of noise in pictures make sure you don't have gradation set to auto. Olympus seems to almost recommend this and it happens automatically if you use their default setting to turn face recognition off via the function button. I think the results are terrible and they add lots of noise to the pictures. It's supposed to be similar to Nikon's Active D-lighting, but I get noise even at ISO 200 with this. Set your gradation setting to normal and you will be a lot happier.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Probably part settings error, part expectations. I find these files to be "noisy" compared to my K20d. But I like the look a lot, and you can deal with it in pp. I'm shooting gradation "normal" and all NR off with a bit of contrast and sharpness dialed in. I find things to be very crisp with a lot of detail.

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    pellicle....I hear ya....No reason to get all snappy though
    apologies ... my offered excuse (but not justification) is that living in Finland these last few years has made me more terse than I once was (Finns are even worse than me) and I'm perhaps getting up to threshold on ill thought out questions (although I'm as much a culprit when the shoe is on the other foot)

    I agree it would help if I had some examples but unfortunatly i'm at work and I don't have them with me. Yes I am looking 100% crops when I say that....although last night I shot some that I though were noisy even with it fit to screen
    could be the 'resample' algorithm at work there ... I've got a 4000dpi scan of negative that looks like a sand pit when "fit to screen" but prints lovely...

    [QUOTE]This morning I shot some test shots all at ISO 100 and was quite pleased with the results. Here's a link to those shots (you can view full size there too)
    http://burningalive.smugmug.com/gall...97565856_WUkqB
    [QUOTE]

    well I looked at one or two and thought they were ok too ... especially when converting to black and white I've found things look worse ...
    I don't have a problem with these shots really at all. I will experiment more this afternoon with some different ISO's and see what I think now.

    Also I no longer have the 20d so I will be unable to do a direct comparison....but I have thousands of shots that I'm very happy with with the 20d, I just want to be just as happy with the E-p1. I'm not giving up on the camera yet, I'm just looking for input. Thanks.
    my input is that while per pixel noise ratios "might" be slightly higher than the 20D the extra pixels (4000 vs 3500) makes up for some of it. There is however a pixel density increase of nearly double (smaller sensor bigger pixel count), since the camera is more compact (both in sensor and in build) I think that the lord of physics giveth with one hand and taketh with the other. To paraphrase some monty python:

    and the lord did hear the cries of Victor and verilly slew the mass he had hanging around his neck, and caused the weight to be smaller and the mirror slap to be gone. And Victor in his complaint of more signal to noise ratio did cry out that the lord was a rotten bastard. And so the lord sent Victor an angel to comfort him for the weekend ... and entered they together the studio ... ahmen
    anyway ... like I said ... pardon if I was snappy

    ni
    Last edited by pellicle; 21st July 2009 at 09:47.

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    Burningalive
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Thanks for the reply, I did post some I took this morning on the way into work but they were all taken with 100 ISO and really didn't represent what I was originally complaining about. I took some this after noon with ISO's from 100 to 800 and honestly I quite liked what I got. I don't know.....maybe I'm crazy. I was mainly shooting my kids last night and it just didn't seem like the quality was there, perhaps I need to give it more than two days

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    Thanks for the reply, I did post some I took this morning on the way into work but they were all taken with 100 ISO and really didn't represent what I was originally complaining about. I took some this after noon with ISO's from 100 to 800 and honestly I quite liked what I got. I don't know.....maybe I'm crazy. I was mainly shooting my kids last night and it just didn't seem like the quality was there, perhaps I need to give it more than two days
    Here's what I'm finding - this camera is all about expectations.

    First off, shoot iso200 rather than 100. Evidently 200 is native for the sensor so that's going to give you the "best" image.

    I originally wasn't that thrilled with some of the images that I saw posted here. But others intrigued me, and I was specifically looking for something that handled somewhat like my DLux4 but had a better file. The E-P1 is a quirky camera - not quite p&s, not quite dSLR. If you go in expecting the files to look like they came out of a D300 or 5D you'll be disappointed. What I was hoping was that I'd get a different "look" than a p&s with a file I could push around a bit more and better iq. I was not expecting the files to look as good as those coming from my K20d. And I got what I expected.

    This camera isn't magic. A 4/3 sensor just isn't going to give you the resolution-s/n-dr of an APS-C. And that's...ok. What I'm finding is that the images coming out of the E-P1 (after changing the default settings) have a great look for what I "see." I like the grain (where others might complain about noise) and the colors have a different quality than either my DLux4 or K20d.

    So don't compare the shots with other cameras. Just use it and see if you get what you're seeing and what you can do with it.

    Oh, and I might be nuts but I love this camera at iso1600. The noise looks very much like film grit to me, and it is more pleasing than the noise from either my small sensor or APS-C.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    Thanks for the reply, I did post some I took this morning on the way into work but they were all taken with 100 ISO and really didn't represent what I was originally complaining about. I took some this after noon with ISO's from 100 to 800 and honestly I quite liked what I got. I don't know.....maybe I'm crazy. I was mainly shooting my kids last night and it just didn't seem like the quality was there, perhaps I need to give it more than two days
    I think there is a mindset issue. Canon have been really good at producing 'smooth and noise free images' Olympus (and Leica and Sony) have been lighter handed, with more noise (but possibly better colour and detail). I think it's a matter of taste, but what is certainly true is that moving from one to another is culture shock!

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi



    apologies ... my offered excuse (but not justification) is that living in Finland these last few years has made me more terse than I once was (Finns are even worse than me) and I'm perhaps getting up to threshold on ill thought out questions (although I'm as much a culprit when the shoe is on the other foot)
    Do you live in Finland? Some of my best friends are finns . . I've had a tricky day today, and the sauna in the garden is building up a head of steam.

    I was told a joke (by a Finn) about the finnish character:

    There were two identical twins, Miko and Veikko, Veikko moved to Canada in 1978, and was making his first return trip 30 years later in 2008. Miko picked him up from the airport, and on the way home:

    Miko:
    " Would you like a drink before we get home "

    Veikko
    "Sounds like a great idea"

    So, off to the bar, drinks in, they're sitting comfortably:

    Veikko
    "So Miko - it's been a long time, how have you been doing"

    Miko
    "Did we come here to talk? or to drink?"


    I understand all about terse, but I think the Finns are just lovely, and such good fun.

    The Sauna is wood burning . . here it is (taken with the E-P1 of course)


    It's at about 55 at the moment - should be ready in half an hour

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    And here is a point about the quality from the E-P1. This is the humble kit lens, and a crop from the top right hand corner of the shot above at 100%

    it isn't as good as an M8 with a 75mm summicron, but it's around 1/4 the price, and it is NEARLY as good:
    100% crop


    no sharpening, just straight from the camera

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    I'm going to stick my nose in here based on Jono's two posts. I will admit I've had a bias against 4/3rds--not actively, just that I couldn't see the pros of it as opposed to the cons--for me. So--I just never looked at 4/3rds cameras--even though years ago I loved my E-10.

    So--that's the background--jump to December when I'd been looking for a small camera--just hadn't had any love for my G9, 400D, was watching the DP-1 but didn't feel it was where I wanted to deal with it. The G1 was announced--a 4/3rds sensor. Yikes--what to expect, but, hey--it HAD to be better than the P & S sensors. I bought the G1 based on size/weight and 'decent' images. What I found was that, compared to my 5D which I've had for going on 4 years--there wasn't a huge difference. Some, yes, and yes, the 5D gave me smooth, noise free files--better DR. But--guess what--I've found that when I print those files from both--really virtually no one can tell the difference up to 11 x 17 (if I put them side by side, I can--but its tough and I have to really look and look--and admittedly I shoot in RAW and sometimes 'handle' NR when I've shot in very low light). I can shoot with my 5D and love those prints---but I can shoot with the G1 and really enjoy the shooting experience--and still love those prints.

    I think we expect certain things--but I shot with a D30 and D60 back in the days LOL--and a 10D and a 20D LOL---it got better and better--but I still often go back to those D60 shots and am more than pleased. So--I would spend some time with the camera if it appeals to you for more than just looks LOL--and see if your 'inward' biases may be playing a part in you not liking it. No--the files won't be butter smooth and you'll find other things to compare to--but OTOH--consider that inside that little camera is the best 4/3rds sensor that's come down the pike, as I understand it, and realize there are lots of people shooting with a 4/3rds and not being defensive in any way about their images.

    Diane

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Do you live in Finland?
    I do ... Kouvola to be precise

    Some of my best friends are finns . .
    lovely to hear ... most of my best friends are Australians, but there are a few Pomms, some Koreans, a couple of Japanese and an Indonesian. There are nice people everywhere.

    That is not to say there are not social 'norms' in a country. Having visited England (think drizzel and light rain) I'd say that if I came here from England I'd love the place with its open space and clean nature.

    But I came from Australia with much more open spaces, good weather and fantastic places to go camping without needing Gore-Tex for everything.

    plus we don't need a Sauna as we get to sweat plenty during the summer ;-)




    I was told a joke (by a Finn) about the finnish character:
    nice one :-)

    Pekka from Tampere area went to the bosses dinner at the bosses home on Saturday night and like everyone sat at the table drinking viinš all night. At around midnight he got up and said "perkele" and walked home.

    next morning when getting up he thinks to himself "gosh, why did I blabber on last night"
    So give me:
    this




    which can take me to here



    here


    here



    or here



    over

    this


    or

    this


    if I don't have to put up with all the other stuff in this distant outpost of civilization. Try buying things like cars, homes, technology - laptops, camera gear, film chemistry or just about anything non-Finnish. If you import it the shipping costs to here are nearly the highest in the EU and if it comes from outside the EU ... yike. Germany has some stuff ... but hey, heaps of Germans won't deal outside of Germany (same goes for UK).

    Yep ... the lusture of having a ski track near my home wears thin (especially with the lousy skiing weather we've had these last few winters) quickly when you factor in the whole picture ... and I haven't even started on living cost comparisons to Australia or the food.

    So I love lappland to visit (Swedish or Finnish) both in snow or in summer... but can't imagine how I'd earn a living there. But southern Finland ...

    All in all its a nice place to visit (some parts of the year) but after 3 years I can assure you I don't want to live here.
    Last edited by pellicle; 22nd July 2009 at 00:16.

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    ...I bought the G1 based on size/weight and 'decent' images. What I found was that, compared to my 5D which ... there wasn't a huge difference.

    ... but I can shoot with the G1 and really enjoy the shooting experience--and still love those prints.
    good points Diane and much the same as how I feel about my G1

    besides ... now I can lug my 4x5 field camera and don't have to agonize over should I take a DSLR and lenses too?

    ;-)

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    The day Sigma comes up with a DP3 with interchangeable lenses will be the happier day of my photographer life. Oh, foveon sensor...me love you long time.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I think we expect certain things--but I shot with a D30 and D60 back in the days LOL--and a 10D and a 20D LOL---it got better and better--but I still often go back to those D60 shots and am more than pleased. So--I would spend some time with the camera if it appeals to you for more than just looks LOL--and see if your 'inward' biases may be playing a part in you not liking it. No--the files won't be butter smooth and you'll find other things to compare to--but OTOH--consider that inside that little camera is the best 4/3rds sensor that's come down the pike, as I understand it, and realize there are lots of people shooting with a 4/3rds and not being defensive in any way about their images.

    Diane
    Excellent - you couldn't put it better.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    After a day of shooting yesterday I would have to say that I am in fact very happy with the images I'm getting. There are certain situation that I am just unhappy about but I'll get over it! I find that taking pictures in low light (Like dusk) of my kids the images are just unacceptable. This probably is just me expecting to much from the kit 14-42mm lens. It's not a fast lens and I guess I'm probably pushing it into territory it's just not meant to cover. I ordered a FD lens adapter and will be able to put some faster glass (in the 1.8 range) on it soon and I'll know for sure then. With that being said it proper light I find anywhere from ISO 100 to 1600 to be quite nice.

    I do feel like the shutter is slow, I think it's just the sound of it that confuses me though. The shutter speed can be set quite high and it still "sounds" like it's opening and closing slowly to my ears. Anyone else feel this way?

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    The shutter speed can be set quite high and it still "sounds" like it's opening and closing slowly to my ears. Anyone else feel this way?
    Absolutely agree. I was taking some photos yesterday evening for eBay of a couple of cameras I no longer need now that I have the E-P1. These were long exposures (black cameras under inadequate lighting) and the sound of the shutter made me think it was broken. Fortunately the shutter works better than it sounds.
    Geoff
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Sitting back reading this post, and having decided early on that the E-P1 was not for me (no EVF or articulating LCD like I have with my G1/GH1), it reminds me of the posts about the Sigma DP1/DP2 and its appallingly bad user interface, but great IQ. I guess it comes down to what you're willing to put up with and how you can alter your workflow to suit the foibles.

    Cheers,

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    ... I have Noise reduction ON, Noise filter OFF, JPEG Large Superfine. Gradiation NORMAL. Using the natural color setting. IS1 for image stabilization. I can't figure out anything else, also I'm using the 14-42 kit lens. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.
    Maybe I'm remembering wrong from my E420, but isn't "Noise Reduction" for dark frame subtraction at high ISO's whereas "Noise Filter" is what you set for regular noise reduction on jpegs? Someone blast me if I'm wrong!

    You might want to double check what you've got for these settings and try Noise filter on Low (If "Low" is available) to smooth things out a little?
    Last edited by Joan; 22nd July 2009 at 10:05.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Any feedback on the last users comments? I though I had read people saying to use NR and not NF.

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    BurningAlive,

    I just downloaded the user guide, and if you look on p. 107, you'll see that "Noise Reduction" is for long exposures (night scenes). "Noise Filter"" is noise processing for jpegs, they say to use "Standard" for general shooting and "High" for high iso's. Now, on other Olympus models, there was also a "Low" setting, but the E-P1 manual doesn't mention that.

    Many users dislike losing some detail to noise processing so they advocate turning "Noise Filter" to OFF, but then you WILL see noise, no matter what ISO.

    Hope this helps.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Sitting back reading this post, and having decided early on that the E-P1 was not for me (no EVF or articulating LCD like I have with my G1/GH1), it reminds me of the posts about the Sigma DP1/DP2 and its appallingly bad user interface, but great IQ. I guess it comes down to what you're willing to put up with and how you can alter your workflow to suit the foibles.

    Cheers,
    HI Simon
    Not like that - I got rid of the G1 after a month, I just didn't like the way it worked. The E-P1 seems a huge improvement to me - mind you, I've always cordially disliked EVF viewfinders (paint me as odd)

    The Olympus user interface is pretty good, and if the autofocus is slower than the G1 . . . it's close enough. Throw in a rather delightful ergonomics and autofocus with all the 4/3 lenses.

    So, it might be 'what you're willing to put up with' with the DP1/2, but the E-P1 is (and I'm not alone in this feeling) a delightful camera, which the G1 wasn't quite (good - yes, delightful - no).

    Just this guy you know

  29. #29
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Hi Jono,

    Interesting, isn't it, how different we all are? I find the G1 to be almost perfect. I love the EVF, especially the way I can use it for manual focus lenses. It has the right resolution depth for me. And, I love the LCD's ability to move, giving more holding opportunities.

    As interested and intrigued as I was by Oly's teaser about the E-P1, I want to have a VF on my cameras, whether OVF or EVF. I don't think I'd see enough difference in the final image to go to the E-P1.

    Ciao,

  30. #30
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    Any feedback on the last users comments? I though I had read people saying to use NR and not NF.
    I turn all NR off. I'd rather keep the detail and grain and then decide later if I want to clean it up. I almost never want to though...if the camera gives a good looking noise I"m happy.

  31. #31
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    ...
    Interesting, isn't it, how different we all are? I find the G1 to be almost perfect. I love the EVF, especially the way ...
    ...and, I love the LCD's ability to move, giving more holding opportunities.
    yes that's about how I feel, although I wonder about the way it makes one grip the camera ... there might be something in the E-P1 that reminds me of the sort of thing I would do with my IXUS. Sure I couldn't see 'detail' on the finder, but I could take stuff like I have. (sorry, can't locate sample just now)

  32. #32
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Hi Jono,

    Interesting, isn't it, how different we all are? I find the G1 to be almost perfect. I love the EVF, especially the way I can use it for manual focus lenses. It has the right resolution depth for me. And, I love the LCD's ability to move, giving more holding opportunities.

    As interested and intrigued as I was by Oly's teaser about the E-P1, I want to have a VF on my cameras, whether OVF or EVF. I don't think I'd see enough difference in the final image to go to the E-P1.

    Ciao,
    Hi Simon,

    actually the E-P1 LCD is qualitatively very similar to the G1's EVF... and superior to the G1's LCD.

    I know what you mean about the importance of an eye level viewfinder and articulating screen in such a compact package - but the E-620 serves this purpose for me much better than the G1, and feels better in use (the small height / grip combination of the G1 is a bit uncomfortable imho).

    Here's a shot from the E-620 with the Hexanon 85mm f1.8 - stabilised with in-body IS, and focused via the OVF.

    E-620 + Hexanon 85mm f1.8
    1/400s f/4 iso200


    The E-P1's in-body stabilisation being applied to all legacy lenses is also a big advantage. I don't find manual focusing and framing any more difficult than the G1 - just a different holding technique.

    I used it at the British Bouldering Championships recently.

    E-P1 + Hexanon 135mm f2.5
    1/160s f/2.5 iso400


    Kind Regards

    Brian

  33. #33
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Hi Jono,

    Interesting, isn't it, how different we all are? I find the G1 to be almost perfect. I love the EVF, especially the way I can use it for manual focus lenses. It has the right resolution depth for me. And, I love the LCD's ability to move, giving more holding opportunities.

    As interested and intrigued as I was by Oly's teaser about the E-P1, I want to have a VF on my cameras, whether OVF or EVF. I don't think I'd see enough difference in the final image to go to the E-P1.

    Ciao,
    Hi Simon
    I'm with Brian on this one, if I'm going to have a VF then I'll have an optical one, and the E620 is hardly any larger than the G1. In body IS is a great bonus, especially if you want to use legacy lenses (or other 4/3 lenses which don't have IS built in).

    Just this guy you know

  34. #34
    Burningalive
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Joan I have to tell you I think you solved my issue! I turned off noise reduction and set the noise filter to standard and instantly the photo's looked great. Here's a few examples.

    ISO 1600


    ISO 800


    ISO 400 B&W

  35. #35
    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Jono,

    I've had the same reaction to the E-P1.

    I had the G1. I thought it was a nice camera, and well conceived/designed for it's purpose. But I just never really loved shooting it. I always felt like I was using a super-zoom digicam, and the visceral experience of shooting with it just wasn't great for me. I was happy enough with the images, and would use the G1 when traveling, but only when my larger Canon system was too inconvenient.

    Along comes the E-P1, and it's completely different for me. The shooting experience is far more like the M8 (which seems odd, given the lack of a VF) than it is like a G1. The feel and handling of the camera is completely different, and just fits me much better. I actually look forward to shooting the E-P1, and will grab it in situations that I could just as easily take the Canon system, just because the E-P1 is so enjoyable to shoot.

    With my Leica M lenses (50 lux and 75 summarit), I can walk around for hours, having fun just shooting stuff with the E-P1, the way I used to with my M8.

    The E-P1 certainly still has it's limitations and flaws, which need to be addressed in future generations. The AF is far too slow to use for sports/action shooting, and doesn't work at all in very low light. And at some point, some type of VF will be necessary (rangefinder style, EVF, etc).

    Even with its flaws and limitations, I'm really enjoying the E-P1, and it's put the fun back in "walk-around" photography for me, which I haven't had for a while.



    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Simon
    Not like that - I got rid of the G1 after a month, I just didn't like the way it worked. The E-P1 seems a huge improvement to me - mind you, I've always cordially disliked EVF viewfinders (paint me as odd)

    The Olympus user interface is pretty good, and if the autofocus is slower than the G1 . . . it's close enough. Throw in a rather delightful ergonomics and autofocus with all the 4/3 lenses.

    So, it might be 'what you're willing to put up with' with the DP1/2, but the E-P1 is (and I'm not alone in this feeling) a delightful camera, which the G1 wasn't quite (good - yes, delightful - no).
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

  36. #36
    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    If only I could mount M lenses on an E-620...
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

  37. #37
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post

    The E-P1 certainly still has it's limitations and flaws, which need to be addressed in future generations. The AF is far too slow to use for sports/action shooting, and doesn't work at all in very low light. And at some point, some type of VF will be necessary (rangefinder style, EVF, etc).

    Even with its flaws and limitations, I'm really enjoying the E-P1, and it's put the fun back in "walk-around" photography for me, which I haven't had for a while.
    Hi Mike - I prefer to think of them as limitations rather than flaws - it isn't a 'do everything' camera any more than any other camera (and less than some).

    As far as it's feeling more like the M8, I think it's because you can 'eyeball' your victim whilst shooting, which is one of the joys of the M8, and which makes one feel so much more involved.

    Like you-I felt the G1 felt like a digicam to use (which is fine, but not to my taste). I simply don't like looking at an EVF, it makes me feel very detached and although I know the refresh rate is faster than my reactions, I still feel like I'm looking at history. With the LCD on the E-P1 this doesn't matter, because I'm getting my cues from real life rather than the LCD (it's also why the number of pixels in the LCD is a non-issue for me).

    Just this guy you know

  38. #38
    JRS11
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    I brought one in and tried it out. I am not a professional, maybe not even advanced, far from it, but I like nice equipment. The feel of the E-P1 is great, the one I tried came with the zoom. While bigger than my small digicams (which I have been shooting with since selling my Contax stuff) I thought it was a nice camera. I did not notice noise, but I am not a DSLR user. What I did not like was the manual and how difficult Oly makes it to understand and to set up and customizations in the menu. I did like the Super Control Panel. I did not keep the camera, I may at some point buy one but for now I have decided to wait. Also, I am not sure I want to buy into a system again, I have gotten used to having a small camera and this has worked for my needs (not perfectly but pretty well) over the past few years. I think if I was more serious this might be my first choice due to size, but to be honest I would want AF lenses and that makes this limiting for me.

  39. #39
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Having been an Olympus 4/3s user for many years, starting with the E1 and now using the E3 for sports and news photography, I've never really felt hobbled by the format, or the cameras and lenses. And the system has never let me down regardless of the conditions in which I've had to work. Similarly, I've never received a bad comment about any of my submitted work. That must say something about the system.

    So I've literally been waiting years for the Pen to arrive and, apparently, I was the first one to take ownership in Australia (according to the Olympus sales rep) when it was finally released. Having used a Panasonic LX2 for some time for simple work, sometimes in parallel with the E3s, I took to the Pen like a duck to water. Perfect it's not, but then no camera is, but it has all the qualities of 4/3s that I've come to like.

    People have had too great an expectation of the Pen and that's the problem. It's not a camera for everyone, but those who are open minded will find it a pleasant surprise. For those who are blinkered by the fact that it doesn't have an OVF/EVF, it's a pity that they can't have the opportunity to try one out for some time, as I'm sure they'd change their tune. For those who bemoan the fact that it doesn't have a pop up flash, buy a P&S, a pop up flash is just not worth it for this sort of camera.

    Cheers

    Ray

  40. #40
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    a popup would yield significant lens shadow too.

    quite frankly, I think its just a case of those that for whatever reason have taken a dislike to Olympus or four thirds or both, to degrade it in whatever way they can

  41. #41
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Ok I'm frustrated! E-p1 driving me nuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningalive View Post
    Joan I have to tell you I think you solved my issue! I turned off noise reduction and set the noise filter to standard and instantly the photo's looked great. Here's a few examples.

    ISO 1600


    ISO 800


    ISO 400 B&W
    I'm glad! They do like VERY nice. Have fun with your E-P1 and post more pictures.
    Regards,
    Joan

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