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Thread: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

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    Member slosync's Avatar
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    New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    There is a web site showing some pictures (Japan) that look pretty promising. What's very interesting is if you scroll down you will see pictures that shows a possible port/slot beneath the hot shoe for an EVF to slide into and the EVF to plug into the slot for signals.

    http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=652133


    Here's a link to some more pictures.
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=32606902

    Cheers,
    Don

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Thanks for the post, Don.

    Looks lovely!

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Looks like the real deal to me. Just when I had reduced the number of cameras I own to a reasonable level ............

    Geoff
    Too many cameras, too little time.
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Perhaaaaaps an EVF ... but GH1 stays lonesome PLACE 1 !






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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    yes indeedy ... this is exciting. :-)

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Now, things are beginning to happen. We may actually get that digital CL that we have been asking for. Competition really works, Mr. President, even in Japan.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    It surely is exciting for me. I expect it won't be available till I have funds ready for it anyhow LOL. And--the 20 f/1.7--I'd love it if the kit was the body plus the 20. I'd be covered for lenses about then with my fast MF lenses (might sell the 17 f/2.8 at that point).--and the 2 bodies would mean I am more rapidly than expected transitioning to m4/3rds (though the Canon gear won't leave any time soon--just be used less and less I'm guessing).

    Diane

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    How about that 45mm Leica Macro Elmarit lens in the picture. This m43 thing is starting to look really interesting now.

    -Thomas

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    I would really like to see how this camera looks with the snap on EVF and more importantly, what the view is like through this EVF. I'm a bit concerned that the EVF port wasn't labelled and that the EVF wasn't illustrated. So far the G1 is still king of the m43 hill for my purposes.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    It is smaller and looks better, for my taste, as the EP-1. The lenses look very temting too.
    Now I am curious about the EVF?

    Michiel

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    Member gDallasK's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Wait a minute ........!

    Leica have an announcement coming on 9th September. Maybe we're looking at the underpinning technology for the new M9. It won't be a bigger sensor, it'll be a smaller one.

    Geoff
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    The kit shown in the photo ... body, 17/1.7 and 45/2.8 ... are about 80% of everything I need for my personal work. The body also looks like it has a new port (on the back, under the hotshoe), which looks positioned for a detachable EVF unit to slide in.

    I'll be collecting my scheckles together waiting for it to be announced officially ... and for Adobe to support the RAW files with Lightroom. Then I'll buy the whole kit. :-)

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    This is great news. If indeed this has an EVF I will be ecstatic. I like the Pen a lot but continually lift it to my eye! Also, I do like the speed of Panny AF. I was shooting with the G1 last night and realized just how much faster it is than the Oly.
    The AF/MF button may actually be a new implementation of the legacy lens MF.

    At the very least, two additional lenses might be getting closer to reality.

    Yeah!

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    Senior Member RonSmith's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    I'll be all over this one.
    Ron Smith
    Flickr

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I would really like to see how this camera looks with the snap on EVF and more importantly, what the view is like through this EVF. I'm a bit concerned that the EVF port wasn't labelled and that the EVF wasn't illustrated. So far the G1 is still king of the m43 hill for my purposes.
    I am not concerned at all (I agree with your G1 comment). They have got the color right.

    If it is going to be without an EVF like the E-P1, I just won't buy it.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    This is about to turn me religious - or believe in Santa Claus again.

    I've got a couple of Ricohs that use detachable EVFs and I can't live without this feature. The EVF is never detached from the camera when I use it.

    We all knew this would happen - but in my case, I couldn't wait and got the EP-1. I've started saving. Knowing Panny, we won't wait so long.

    Keith

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by trisberg View Post
    How about that 45mm Leica Macro Elmarit lens in the picture. This m43 thing is starting to look really interesting now.

    -Thomas
    If this is for real, I could see dumping my APS-C gear and just having a pair of u4/3 bodies along with a smattering of Leica u4/3 lenses.

    *if*

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    If this is for real, I could see dumping my APS-C gear and just having a pair of u4/3 bodies along with a smattering of Leica u4/3 lenses.

    *if*
    That's what I have done, and so far I'm really happy with it. The new Panny will happen, just a question of when, but I think it is just a matter of months.

    Keith

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    All I'm missing now is a nice and compact 14mm lens to go with the 20mm. Both lenses with a matching OVF would be a superb setup for me.

    Hopefully the AF is fast and accurate enough since the m43 lenses never have a focusing scale.

    -Thomas

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Leica's annual report just published alludes to a midrange system camera made by a partner along with lenses to be announced and sold during this current fiscal year for Leica. Maybe a rebadged version of this camera is it. They call the S2 their high end camera and the P&Ss their low end cameras.
    V/r John

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Too bad it doesn't have built in anti shake. If we could get Panny and Oly to combine forces and build a camera in the GF-1 size with EVF and Oly internal anti-shake and Panny AF and Oly build quality...WOW!!!!
    V/r John

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Too bad it doesn't have built in anti shake. If we could get Panny and Oly to combine forces and build a camera in the GF-1 size with EVF and Oly internal anti-shake and Panny AF and Oly build quality...WOW!!!!
    Give me fast lenses instead.

    I don't need IS, at least for anything in the 7 to 70 mm range, if I have fast lenses. ;-)

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    If this is for real, I could see dumping my APS-C gear and just having a pair of u4/3 bodies along with a smattering of Leica u4/3 lenses.
    I already did just that :-)

    big smiles this end as I've been contemplating the E-P1 but this little beastie would be HOT

  24. #24
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Leica's annual report just published alludes to a midrange system camera made by a partner along with lenses to be announced and sold during this current fiscal year for Leica. Maybe a rebadged version of this camera is it.
    That would be great news: I've always liked the Leica versions over the Panasonic ones. They're just a tad more stylish. This GF-1 looks great when looking at the possible specs, particularly the size and the clip-on EVF. But like most Panasonic cameras, it hardly has a character of its own.

    Even before this leak was published, I had already decided not to go for the E-P1 yet. It's just what I need, mostly, but a viewfinder is still a nice to have. Looking forward to the announcements in the coming months. I *will* switch to m43 one day, but not just yet. Anyway, I just received my OM-43 convertor ring with focus confirmation that will keep me busy for some time It feels lovely to be able to use my 50/f1.4 and 90/f2 macro again. Pictures following as soon as I find a PC with a CF slot !


    Peter.

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    Senior Member hot's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    If indeed this has an EVF I will be ecstatic.
    Best would be a moveable EVF - like RICOH.
    This would be perfect - with high resolution.



    But then size is ~ same like GH1 - and no moveable display, no fullHD 1920x1080, no stereo (? ? ?)

    Last edited by hot; 7th August 2009 at 02:02.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    I'm waiting for a new improved sensor... with better corner performance... and increase in native speed... anything more is just dreaming of putting lipstick on a pig...

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post
    I'm waiting for a new improved sensor... with better corner performance... and increase in native speed... anything more is just dreaming of putting lipstick on a pig...
    True, also what we more worry about is that how will the new sensor change?
    As we know, APS-C size sensor is already facing the bottle neck of the pixel increment to the physical limit of 15MP, so do the 4/3 sensor。Pushing to a higher level, said 20MP or 24MP should be too harsh to maintain the image quality.

    Theoretically, 4/3 format has room to increase the sensor size from double to quadro (32 X 24mm... wow!), which reaches almost the same size of FF. But it also violates the lens compatibilities since the back flange distance should be change to fit in a bigger mirror. Then, a live view quadro size 48MP camera may achieve. Or even more crazy idea may come that a mirror-less M4/3 48MP camera in the future. But of course, quadro image processors may need to deal with such huge amount of data.

    A rumors has been heard that 1.3X crop factor Pentax DSLR may available in 2010 1st season. This may be a boom to the market that 1.3X crop factor become a new benchmark or market segment. However, we hear not much technology break through of 4/3 format so far.

    I am not quite confidence on a great leap of pixel from 12MP to 14-15MP. A bigger sensor might be the solution but also a dilemma to the manufacturer and the user when the system change. May be I am too pessimistic but I think it is really a problem that Pany and Oly should face. Hope they are hearing or doing something already.
    Last edited by pentacon6; 7th August 2009 at 04:20.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Faster AF and it's black! Sounds like a winner already.

  29. #29
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Barjohn's got an intriguing notion there; wouldn't be the first time Pana and Leica had collaborated on this type of strategy! It also might explain why Pana hasn't said anything about this camera in their "roadmap" -- they might want to let Leica announce it first.

    What especially strikes me, though, is Pana's astuteness in building out a two-pronged "product line" for its Micro 4/3 offerings. This will give them the existing compact but DSLR-shaped G1/GH1 for people who want all the features in a slightly larger size... plus the more compact GF line for people who will accept a slightly reduced feature set (no swivel LCD, no 1080 movie mode) in return for a more compact size (with the option of adding an EVF if and when you want it... assuming the "mystery slot" below the hot shoe is an EVF connector and not, say, an external-mic connector.)

    I suspect a lot of existing G1/GH1 customers also would want this new camera as a companion to it... in fact, one site coyly suggested that the "GF" stands for "girlfriend." [As in, your GH1 needs a girlfriend -- something smaller and cuter, but capable and smart.] Talk about personalizing the product line!

    Which is weird, in a Japanesely kawai sort of way, but on the other hand, it might be genius. I'll bet a lot of married/attached male readers don't have any trouble imagining the following type of conversation:

    "Listen, if we're going to buy any more cameras, I want something I can use. I'm just as good a photographer as you, but I need something small. I'm the one who has to carry a purse -- which has a lot of your junk in it, by the way -- so I don't want to carry a camera bag like you do."

    "Well then, how about this new Panasonic? The controls and menus are just like our GH1 and we could share the same set of lenses, but it's a lot more compact."

    Pana ain't dumb...

  30. #30
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    If this is for real, I could see dumping my APS-C gear and just having a pair of u4/3 bodies along with a smattering of Leica u4/3 lenses.

    *if*
    I am right there with you.

    For a electronics firm Panasonic has turned into quite a good camera maker. I have owned a few of their offerings and they have been very nice. They get praises from the forum members here and elsewhere.

    Now I am excited. This appears to be the camera I have been waiting for. Cross my fingers and hope that it is not a dud.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Barjohn's got an intriguing notion there; wouldn't be the first time Pana and Leica had collaborated on this type of strategy! It also might explain why Pana hasn't said anything about this camera in their "roadmap" -- they might want to let Leica announce it first.

    What especially strikes me, though, is Pana's astuteness in building out a two-pronged "product line" for its Micro 4/3 offerings. This will give them the existing compact but DSLR-shaped G1/GH1 for people who want all the features in a slightly larger size... plus the more compact GF line for people who will accept a slightly reduced feature set (no swivel LCD, no 1080 movie mode) in return for a more compact size (with the option of adding an EVF if and when you want it... assuming the "mystery slot" below the hot shoe is an EVF connector and not, say, an external-mic connector.)

    I suspect a lot of existing G1/GH1 customers also would want this new camera as a companion to it... in fact, one site coyly suggested that the "GF" stands for "girlfriend." [As in, your GH1 needs a girlfriend -- something smaller and cuter, but capable and smart.] Talk about personalizing the product line!

    Which is weird, in a Japanesely kawai sort of way, but on the other hand, it might be genius. I'll bet a lot of married/attached male readers don't have any trouble imagining the following type of conversation:

    "Listen, if we're going to buy any more cameras, I want something I can use. I'm just as good a photographer as you, but I need something small. I'm the one who has to carry a purse -- which has a lot of your junk in it, by the way -- so I don't want to carry a camera bag like you do."

    "Well then, how about this new Panasonic? The controls and menus are just like our GH1 and we could share the same set of lenses, but it's a lot more compact."

    Pana ain't dumb...
    Except that Leica said they didn't like the 4/3 sensor size.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Looks exciting! If it's real, I would buy one. I'd prefer one of these over the GH1.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    I would imagine Panny is reading the post about the Pen.
    If they actually implement the improvements desired for the Pen, they will have a shot at a good camera. Hopefully Pen will do this before the release of the Panny.
    At any rate, the Pen is more Elegant. The Panny has much to compete with while the Pen only has to compete against itself.
    Time will tell, till then, the Pen is a real nice,
    working DREAM...
    Shooter

  34. #34
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    I'm thinking Pana will put a 650us$ price tag on this babe so that they may sweep Oly's EP-1 sales.

  35. #35
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    That 20mm f1.7 looks awesome! I bet they will charge a fortune for it.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Stick a bit of black tape over that silly bit of chrome in the grip and it would start to look quite cool.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    I posted the following in the LUF:
    Here is a quote from the Annual Report:

    Product risks
    There is considerable risk from the continuing acceleration of
    product life cycles in the digital camera sector. The key digital
    technologies and the timely market introduction of products
    are essential for the Company’s corporate success and the
    continuation of the Company as a going concern. Alliances
    with reliable technology partners constitute a vital part of the
    process both in the field of digital compact cameras and in
    the field of digital system cameras.


    Notice that technology partners is given important prominence here and later.

    The following is an important accountants statement:

    As a result of the sales slump due to the global eco -
    nomic crisis, as well as a result of delays in the development
    and market introduction of products there are considerable
    risks concerning the continuation of the Company as a going
    concern as at the end of the fiscal year.


    Accountants must address the risks of whether the company will continue as a "going concern." Leica has put forth several restructuring plans but the statement above means that their is very significant risk that it may not continue as a going concern. If you read the report you will see both sales and debt repayment risks that could put the company at risk.

    With its analogue and digital system cameras Leica
    Camera Group is to gain a solid position in the upper market
    segment. The Company plans, in cooperation with a partner,
    to supplement its portfolio in the medium and upper price
    segments by digital compact cameras, thereby increasing its
    share in the market. There are initial prototype projects tar -
    get ing further market segments for high-grade lenses.

    Are we talking Panasonic's new M4/3rds GF-1? Now you will get to use your R lenses. Of course you could have purchased the G1, or GH-1 or Oly E-P1 and done the same thing allready.

    For all product lines marketing and sales are uncompro -
    misingly geared towards the upper price segment. Structures
    are being adjusted, and the Company presses ahead with the
    implementation of the Top Dealer Concept, as well as the harmonisation
    of prices.


    Don't expect cheap, even for rebadged.

    I think the annual report points to a desperate need for Leica to bring out new products beyond the S2 if they are to survive. It also appears that they know their best bet is to use a technology partner to accomplish this as they need to reduce costs and can't afford the costs of developing another camera (read all of their proposed cost cutting plans in the report). Annual reports are funny things in that they are legally required to disclose risks and bad news but management does their best to paint the best possible picture in their choice of words. Those of you that have gone through this process with a certified accounting firm know that when an accounting firm raises questions about the firm being a "going concern" it means things are not good. Leica does its best to minimize the impact of this statement.

    The following is taken from the auditor's report:


    Without qualifying our opinion, we draw attention to the
    observation made by the Board of Management in the Group
    management report, in the section headed »Risk management
    of Leica Camera Group«, that the continuation of the
    Company as a going concern is dependent on the successful
    implementation of the restructuring measures resolved, as
    well as on sufficient financing.
    Frankfurt, June 26, 2009
    BDO Deutsche Warentreuhand Aktiengesellschaft
    Wirtschaftsprüfungsgesellschaft
    Dr. Rosien Bauer
    Wirtschaftsprüfer Wirtschaftsprüferin


    I think that Leica will change its position on 4/3rds as I fail to see what other options lie before them. Maybe they can produce and ship an M9 during the current FY but I think that is more wishful thinking.

    On another note, I am wondering whether the new backlight sensor developed by Sony might find its way into 4/3rds. As I understand it, on larger sensors the wiring blocking the photo receptors isn't as much of an issue and thus might not produce the ISO and SN improvement evident in smaller sensors; however, if one doubled the pixel count to 24mp on the 4/3rds sensor but used the backlight approach to keep high ISO and better SN then it might be a really interesting sensor producing resolution more like the bigger SLRs.

    All of the above is some food for thought.
    V/r John

  38. #38
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by pentacon6 View Post

    A rumors has been heard that 1.3X crop factor Pentax DSLR may available in 2010 1st season. This may be a boom to the market that 1.3X crop factor become a new benchmark or market segment. However, we hear not much technology break through of 4/3 format so far. .
    Got a pointer to this rumor? Hadn't heard it before.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Forget all of that; just manage to squeeze a D90 sensor into micro four thirds body ;-)
    Actually I'd be happy with just a DP3 with a micro four thirds lens mount.
    Whatever happened to the Samsung NX camera? The sensor was bigger than the DP1/DP2's and the micro four thirds and the size of the actual camera was about the same as the G1. It is supposed to be out on the second half of 2009...just 5 more month to go.

  40. #40
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    I'm thinking Pana will put a 650us$ price tag on this babe so that they may sweep Oly's EP-1 sales.
    Dream on

  41. #41
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Hi


    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    I suspect a lot of existing G1/GH1 customers also would want this new camera as a companion to it... in fact, one site coyly suggested that the "GF" stands for "girlfriend." [As in, your GH1 needs a girlfriend -- something smaller and cuter, but capable and smart.] Talk about personalizing the product line!
    exactly ... my wife likes my G1 more than my 10D, but kept reaching for her favourite A540. The GF sort of looks like it may be a similar physical factor to that which will mean she will like it. I'd go for it with the pancake 17mm in a flash as that won't be far less wide than her A540 and its one less thing to operate (the zoom). She doesn't like my folding screen as she finds it annoying to flip it out and doesn't like to put her eye to the view finder either

    I think it'll make a perfect second body

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    If this is for real, I could see dumping my APS-C gear and just having a pair of u4/3 bodies along with a smattering of Leica u4/3 lenses.

    *if*
    This is what I have done; Canon 40D and four lenses gone and replaced with the G1 and its three lenses. I would love to add the 20/1.7 if it's decent and maybe the GF1 body. Right now I use my fast Leica lenses on the G1, but the corner performance from the wider lenses isn't that great. When size isn't an issue and low light performance, larger file sizes or snappier SLR performance are needed the 5DII and lenses are still around.

    What is really good on the G1 is the performance of the MF Micro Nikkor 200, with and without the TC14B, and the 400/6.8 Telyt. Also the Leica Viso bellows II and Photar lenses.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Got a pointer to this rumor? Hadn't heard it before.
    In fact, the rumors has been exposed in about Feb of this year. Since no further proof of it and K7 has been launched recently, the rumors is almost forgotten. However, I got a message from the agency that 1.3x crop factor will be first buster after the restructuring of Pentax with the new holder Kenko.

    Whatever it is just a rumors or not, 1.3X is really a threshold of all DSLR makers to face that M4/3 is not the exceptional.

    We all know that pixel increment becomes meaningless but an unavoidable game of DC development. But that's how the DC industry being driven. Other than this, Higher ISO with low noise reduction and smaller size should become the battle fields in the coming future.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    The rumored GF-1 looks a lot like the Lumix LX-3!

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The rumored GF-1 looks a lot like the Lumix LX-3!
    More like the LX-4 (LX-3 replacement). This would all make sense. The LX/DLux line was their different/pro-ish cameras. The LX-2/DLux3 had the 16x9 native sensor, the LX-3/Dlux4 had the f2 lens. Going to u4/3 with a few Leica/Panasonic native lenses would make perfect sense for the next step. This would create a more true "son of M-8" for Leica and give Panasonic another notch in the u4/3 lineup.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Hum, if the sensor is like the LX3's and not like the G1's then I'm out for sure.

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    More like the LX-4 (LX-3 replacement). This would all make sense. The LX/DLux line was their different/pro-ish cameras. The LX-2/DLux3 had the 16x9 native sensor, the LX-3/Dlux4 had the f2 lens. Going to u4/3 with a few Leica/Panasonic native lenses would make perfect sense for the next step. This would create a more true "son of M-8" for Leica and give Panasonic another notch in the u4/3 lineup.
    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is u4/3?

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    Re: Leica Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Except that Leica said they didn't like the 4/3 sensor size.
    They also shunned digital for so long that by the time the M8 was finally on the market it was too late for them and the S2, well ...

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    Re: LX-3 Lookalike

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The rumored GF-1 looks a lot like the Lumix LX-3!
    Quite so. I'll be willing to bet that the GF-1 format was really Panasonic's first m4/3rds model but the marketing boys chickened out and preferred to try the market out with something looking more like a "serious" camera, hence the ridiculous (in retrospect) prism lump on the top of the G-1. Now they've firmly established the idea and had positive response for the mirrorless system, even sparking competition from Olympus, they're now refloating the initial "revolutionary" design of their LX-3 lookalike with an m4/3 sensor and interchangeable lens option.
    Now, if only they could finally realize that Bluetooth here is the perfect connection for a separate EVF, you could have the viewfinder anywhere within a couple of meters from the camera for it to work and then Kweide could get his "Serious Policeman" shot a little straighter by having the viewfinder to his eye with one hand and the camera behind his back with the other!

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    Re: New M43 GF1 - Possibly

    Now, if only they could finally realize that Bluetooth here is the perfect connection for a separate EVF, you could have the viewfinder anywhere within a couple of meters from the camera for it to work
    The possibilities of that is endless. Really exciting (and tiring) times.

    Tiring because anywhere I go out, even as is, the G1 travels with me and I keep snapping. Hard disks are getting filled up at ~10 to 50Gb/day.

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