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Thread: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

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    Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Just wondering, why so many people are selling E-P1 within a week to months time? Seen so many off them on Fred, here and other forums

    What's going on with this little cam

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Why sell M8? Why sell D3, D700, Sony A900..?

    Questions that can not be answered properly.

    AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with the E-P1 (ie. manufacturer issues, like that infamous BGLOD of Nikon D70 or the current recall of Nikon D5000).

    It functions reliably as it was specified to.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Vivek I know what you mean. but I have never seen such sell activity for any other camera at least not from Canikon stable.

    Please note these are getting sold within 1-4 week of possessions. If you see any forum you may get one or two listed

    Warm Regards
    Sagar

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why sell M8? Why sell D3, D700, Sony A900..?

    Questions that can not be answered properly.

    AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with the E-P1 (ie. manufacturer issues, like that infamous BGLOD of Nikon D70 or the current recall of Nikon D5000).

    It functions reliably as it was specified to.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    It is a bit of a "niche" camera that you really have to live with for awhile to see if you shoot that way. Not quite p&s (bigger), not quite dSLR (no OVF). For some it is a great answer.

    Also, people here tend to turn over gear *really* fast as far as I can tell. We have a lot of "early adopters" who then want to try the next thing. Look at is as a service - someone else takes a depreciation hit, and usually the owners here are incredibly careful with their gear - the ideal person to buy from.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    This is a somewhat different type of camera from what many people are used to -- less of a known quantity than just buying a new DSLR model to replace your old one. I suspect that a lot of early adopters felt that the only way to see whether it fits their style of photography was to buy one and use it a bit. The ones you see for sale probably represent cases in which "the relationship just didn't work out."

    (I remember that almost exactly the same thing happened with the Contax G1 film camera, which likewise wasn't exactly like anything people had used before. Some people bought one and loved it; others bought one, found it didn't match up with their wants and expectations, and put it up for sale after trying it out for a week or two.)

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    This is no different from any other camera release as far as I can see. There are always a group of early-adopters who are curious and want to try the latest new thing, then "turn it" for another latest new thing.

    I do the same thing with new lenses as they come out.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Yep, standard operating procedure.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Also, people here tend to turn over gear *really* fast as far as I can tell. We have a lot of "early adopters" who then want to try the next thing. Look at is as a service - someone else takes a depreciation hit, and usually the owners here are incredibly careful with their gear - the ideal person to buy from.
    Another thing people here tend to do is "pre-invest" in cameras that don't necessarily exist yet.

    (For example, over on another forum you can find that people not only have projected the complete specs, availability date, and retail price for a putative "Leica M9" camera, but now have moved on to anticipating new lenses that will be introduced for it.)

    So people who are putting their E-P 1s up for sale may be clearing the decks for a forthcoming rumorcam such as the Panasonic GF-1, or the Olympus E-P 2, or the RED Micro-1. Oops, I wasn't supposed to mention the Micro-1 -- forget I said that...

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I think part of it is the lack of patience early adopters like me have with manufacturers. We have all specified the short-comings of the camera in hopes that Oly would fix those in a new firmware update. Oly seems to be very slow to get any fixes out the door. Panasonic was much more responsive in the early days but has also slowed a bit since then. In particular, there are some really clunky aspects to the menu that could easily be fixed such as having to use the info button to put the camera in a mode to MF non AF lenses. The MF magnification occupying the entire screen rather than a rectangle within so you still see what you are framing and the lack of a simple button press for magnified MF. There have been numerous lists posted on possible menu improvements with no response from Oly. After a bit we start to assume that they won't be fixed and we move on looking for a camera that has listened to photographers and made those controls that are frequently needed very easy, quick and accessible to the photographer.
    V/r John

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I think the E-P1 has created a very solid niche. But if you don't fit that niche then the E-P1 has to go.
    I have the E-P1 and the G1 and they are quite different. If I had to pick one to go on a cruise, I would take the G1. If I had to pick one to shoot in downtown Toronto I would take the E-P1
    The people who are getting the most out of the E-P1 are street shooters (see streetshooter and m3photo on this forum). It's interesting that there seem to be just as many posts on the E-P1 on the small sensor forum as this one, but the E-P1 doesn't technically have a small sensor.
    If I wanted quality street shots (as in Leica shooting) I would pick the E-P1 anyday over a small sensor camera (I have a lot of those). The E-P1 is smaller than an M8, takes a million lenses, has a bigger sensor, has IS, and it has a much more accurate and faster way of focusing than the rangefinder when using its own lenses, and is still pretty competitive in manual mode.

    The only thing that the GF-1 will bring to the table is the EVF, and that changes things in a whole lot of ways - you can use zooms, and you can see what is going on in the camera. With the E-P1, using the LCD, I cannot frame pictures properly in bright sunlight, its impossible. I could do it with the EVF.

    Keith

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Keith-
    I agree with everything you have to say except for sensor size. The M8 has a 1.3x crop sensor and m4/3 is a 2x crop. So a 20mm lens is essentialy a 40mm field of view on the Pen but approx 26mm on an M8.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Keith,
    Thanks for the prop. It's true, the camera is an ideal street camera.
    It also works on any other genre that it is applied.
    There exist no perfect camera. It's all a compromise and a state of mind. I thought that I made a mistake selling my DP1 but now realize, it was no mistake at all.

    I think people have dreams that are never met with a purchase.
    I remember my M8's....I forgot my M8's also.
    The panny soon to be realeased will take a bigger hit than the Oly.
    That camera is up against more than the Oly on release.

    Like stated, the Oly is a niche camera. For those in that niche, like myself....
    It's a dream come true. For others, it's a stepping stone to the next dream.
    Even if the EP2 comes out, I'll keep this camera....

    We doin need no EVF crap around here.....

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Isn't the free market great? Plenty of choices.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Keith-
    I agree with everything you have to say except for sensor size. The M8 has a 1.3x crop sensor and m4/3 is a 2x crop. So a 20mm lens is essentialy a 40mm field of view on the Pen but approx 26mm on an M8.
    Thanks Terry, sometimes I don't bother to do my research - and that's no good
    There are times when I've been on the hairy edge of buying an M8, but didn't. Not a question of affording it, but explaining to the wife a camera that's priced like jewelery.
    But it's interesting the way sensor development is going, for instance the Canon G11 and S90. I have a suspicion that I may have an S90 soon.

    Keith

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by sagar.rj View Post
    Seen so many off them on Fred
    Who's Fred?

    John.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    http://fredmiranda.com

    Quote Originally Posted by JayCee View Post
    Who's Fred?

    John.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by sagar.rj View Post
    Thanks, just realised after I posted it might be.

    John.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    There is a sea-change happening with digital photography right now. That's good for all of us. I think that m4/3 really is driving that. The ability to try any lens is so, so important. Fortunately, I got in at the right time.

    Give EVFs a chance. We don't need mirrors and smoke!

    Keith

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I would never use any forum as bellwether for judging trends.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    No Oz, but it's a good place to start one!

    The E-P1 has had a lot of attention over the last couple of months... the early adopters have had their 5 minutes of fame, time to move on to their next squeeze

    Kind Regards

    Brian (still loving his Panasonic LX1 and Olympus E-400

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    If you buy a E-P1 ,i'm sure, you'll soon sell it. Because there will be another great one, plenty of choices, isn't it?

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Not necessarily this is the reason. For example I have never seen such a fast and so many sells with Canon G10 or panasonic lx3

    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes01 View Post
    If you buy a E-P1 ,i'm sure, you'll soon sell it. Because there will be another great one, plenty of choices, isn't it?

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Looks like the E-P1 is leading the Amazon best sellers list, for m4/3rds... currently up to position 20.

    Also, variants of the E-P1 were at nos. 3, 7, 17 and 19 on the Amazon Hot New Releases the last time I looked.

    And the E-P1 was at position 24 on the 'most gifted' chart.

    Quite an amazing success, I think!

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I hope the market floods with Pens.
    I have one coming in this weekend with 750 frames on it for $375.00.
    How sweet it is......
    Shooter

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Looks like the E-P1 is leading the
    ...
    Quite an amazing success, I think!
    again I am left scratching my head as why the Panasonic G1 isn't in there. Just goes to show that you shouldn't ask me to pick a winner in sales.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    I hope the market floods with Pens.
    I have one coming in this weekend with 750 frames on it for $375.00.
    How sweet it is......
    Shooter
    you mean you have an E-P1 coming for that ... (I was wondering how you verify the amount of shots a 35mm Pen had taken??)

    bloody nora ... I'll have to haunt ebay ... how did you get that?

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    I hope the market floods with Pens.
    I have one coming in this weekend with 750 frames on it for $375.00.
    How sweet it is......
    Shooter
    Holy macro! That is just way too cheap! I don't want to get you worried but I think it's TOO cheap. I would be very suspicious.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    As an early adopter my self and a dreamer of the mythical day when a DSLR and compacts will merge I have to say I am disappointed with the E-P1 in the sense that I’ve thought I would REALLY get a DSLR quality on a compact. Like it was said here many times it’s all personal, it’s about how do you work, what do you use it for, what do you expect, what type of compromises you can or cannot do. I’ve learned to live with the E-P1’s limitations but I’m not happy with them and I KNOW I will eventually sell it for a camera that can REALLY offer that a DSLR can offer on a compact body (may the Samsung NX system).

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    As an early adopter my self and a dreamer of the mythical day when a DSLR and compacts will merge I have to say I am disappointed with the E-P1 in the sense that Iíve thought I would REALLY get a DSLR quality on a compact. Like it was said here many times itís all personal, itís about how do you work, what do you use it for, what do you expect, what type of compromises you can or cannot do. Iíve learned to live with the E-P1ís limitations but Iím not happy with them and I KNOW I will eventually sell it for a camera that can REALLY offer that a DSLR can offer on a compact body (may the Samsung NX system).
    I don't really understand what you mean here. In terms of image quality, there is no difference between what the Pen offers from a dslr. It has the same sensor as a dslr and can use the same lenses. If it is ergonomics, I get it that without a viewfinder one doesn't shoot it the same way. What does waiting for the Samsung NX do that the Panasonic G1 or GH1 doesn't do, given they are essentially the same form factor?

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi



    again I am left scratching my head as why the Panasonic G1 isn't in there. Just goes to show that you shouldn't ask me to pick a winner in sales.
    I'm guessing the reason is that most people aren't buying the G1 through Amazon (notice I said 'guessing' LOL). Since this is only a reflection of the sales made there, then sales made other places won't show up. I would bet maybe none of the G1s of owners on this forum were bought at Amazon---maybe a few, but relatively few. I admit I rarely even think of Amazon when I buy camera gear--though I know many others do. If I'm going to buy from a 3rd party anyhow, I'd rather go to the source.

    Diane

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I have been looking for 17mm Olympus lenses on eBay so have been looking at the E-P1 kits also on sale.

    While I have noticed about 1 or 2 week from private sellers, the rest are institutional sellers and most for more than the listed price. Much more in some cases. The genuine ones that have sold have usually fetched at least 90% of typical store selling prices which is fair enough.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    The E-P1s on ebay from dealers are usually at higher than list in order to cover ebay/paypal fees. The margins are so skinny on these items that to sell them on ebay at retail price eats up almost all the profit.

    PS>There are 17mm lenses in the classifieds here.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I don't really understand what you mean here. In terms of image quality, there is no difference between what the Pen offers from a dslr. It has the same sensor as a dslr and can use the same lenses. If it is ergonomics, I get it that without a viewfinder one doesn't shoot it the same way. What does waiting for the Samsung NX do that the Panasonic G1 or GH1 doesn't do, given they are essentially the same form factor?
    It doesn’t have the same sensor as a DSLR at all. The sensor is considerably smaller. In fact it's smaller than the DP1's.




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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I guess it depends on which DSLR you are comparing too. The G1 / GH1 / E-P1 all have the same sized sensor as the Four-Thirds DSLRs, such as the E-3, E-620, etc.

    The DP1 / DP2 are nearly the same size (just a tad smaller) as the Canon APS-C sensors, and a tad larger than the Four-Thirds sensors.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Rawfa - I will echo what Mike just posted. I don't really think the experience between a 4/3 sensor and the APS-C sized sensor is going to have an impact on your photography.

    If you read the reviews, the latest versions of the 4/3 sensors hold up very well versus the larger APS-C sized. Will you have a bit more depth of field flexibility, yes but I don't see that as a big factor in the types of shots you've posted.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Rawfa - I will echo what Mike just posted. I don't really think the experience between a 4/3 sensor and the APS-C sized sensor is going to have an impact on your photography.

    If you read the reviews, the latest versions of the 4/3 sensors hold up very well versus the larger APS-C sized. Will you have a bit more depth of field flexibility, yes but I don't see that as a big factor in the types of shots you've posted.
    I don't have an E-P1, but do have a 5D and 2 APS-C bodies and Canon G9--and a G1. I have shot with a 5D for almost 4 years, bought the G1 in January. I've done a lot of printing and comparing since then and for most of my shooting, I can't see much compromise unless I print at 16 x 24. When I print with a lot of detail at that level, esp. if its landscape, I found that a 2 over 2 pano works just fine.

    The major difference I see is in VERY shallow DOF with very fast lenses wise open. I don't shoot like that all the time--in fact I generally stop down a bit with the 5D even for that shooting. I've found with fast lenses on the G1, I'm generally satisfied for the type image I am working towards. For now, we're rather shortchanged on fast primes unless one goes with the 25 f/1.4 or uses MF lenses, but that will change, I feel sure.

    Where the DSLR excels (and not my style of shooting) is quite fast shots--sports, some street shooting I would guess, maybe some birds in air and the like. None of those make any difference to me, so the m4/3rds doesn't impact my shooting in any way in that regard.

    So--my conclusion was that the sensor size only impacts (for me) when I wish to print very large with a lot of detail or want a very very shallow DOF. (I won't say that I don't see a bit of difference in DR between my m4/3rds and FF, but I doubt that others do).

    Diane

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Very true Diane and I think everyone should really think cameras from the prospective of its use. I did a big mistake few years back of migrating from P&S Canon S50 to DSLRs that nearly killed my photography. Reason, my most of my shots were kind of street photography in busy places of cities...I just couldn't use DSLR any more.

    After a months of ride on different DLSRs mostly due to (miss)conceptions about censor, pixel peeping and image quality I am finally settling down on m43 and Ricoh GRD. After loosing years of photography I found my "needs and gears"

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I don't have an E-P1, but do have a 5D and 2 APS-C bodies and Canon G9--and a G1. I have shot with a 5D for almost 4 years, bought the G1 in January. I've done a lot of printing and comparing since then and for most of my shooting, I can't see much compromise unless I print at 16 x 24. When I print with a lot of detail at that level, esp. if its landscape, I found that a 2 over 2 pano works just fine.

    The major difference I see is in VERY shallow DOF with very fast lenses wise open. I don't shoot like that all the time--in fact I generally stop down a bit with the 5D even for that shooting. I've found with fast lenses on the G1, I'm generally satisfied for the type image I am working towards. For now, we're rather shortchanged on fast primes unless one goes with the 25 f/1.4 or uses MF lenses, but that will change, I feel sure.

    Where the DSLR excels (and not my style of shooting) is quite fast shots--sports, some street shooting I would guess, maybe some birds in air and the like. None of those make any difference to me, so the m4/3rds doesn't impact my shooting in any way in that regard.

    So--my conclusion was that the sensor size only impacts (for me) when I wish to print very large with a lot of detail or want a very very shallow DOF. (I won't say that I don't see a bit of difference in DR between my m4/3rds and FF, but I doubt that others do).

    Diane

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    It doesn’t have the same sensor as a DSLR at all. The sensor is considerably smaller. In fact it's smaller than the DP1's.
    well geeze mate ... the DP1 is 20.7 x 13.8 mm and the EP1 is 18 x 13.5 so we'd be splitting hairs on that call especially since its a different aspect ratio.

    On to the differences in size well cutting out the confusion of irrelevant comparisons with medium format its more like this...


    which I'd call marginally smaller. Since Olympus makes Digital Single Lens Reflex cameras making use of the same size I'd say it is DSLR quality in a compact body. I haven't held a E-P1 but I'm sure (based on my G1) its not much different to a 35mm like the Olympus Trip ... which is a compact camera.

    and you still haven't posted any substantiation to your issues with focus and image quality. I can say without doubt that my G1 knocks off my EOS 10D and that is a DSLR which was highly regarded.... so while the E-P1 may not match a 5D MkII or Full Frame DSLR neither do they match stuff like the Hassleblad.

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Like I said before this is a personal opinion that relates to each persons' work and preferences. I'm not here to convince anyone not to buy this camera or to be convinced that the camera is good or bad. I've been using it for a while and that is my final personal opinion. Other than that there ARE a substantial number of people selling their E-P1's (not only on this forum but many others) and a substantial number of reviews complaining about noise and latitude (not to mention AF). I've really got to a point where I just prefer to simply enjoy the camera for what it is instead of getting hung up on it's flaws (at least until what I really want comes along).

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Like I said before this is a personal opinion that relates to each persons' work and preferences. I'm not here to convince anyone not to buy this camera or to be convinced that the camera is good or bad. I've been using it for a while and that is my final personal opinion. Other than that there ARE a substantial number of people selling their E-P1's (not only on this forum but many others) and a substantial number of reviews complaining about noise and latitude (not to mention AF). I've really got to a point where I just prefer to simply enjoy the camera for what it is instead of getting hung up on it's flaws (at least until what I really want comes along).
    I don't think anyone here was trying to tell you to keep vs. sell the Pen and nobody was extolling its virtues. I think a few of us were reacting to your thought that an APS-C sized sensor was going to give you a vastly different experience. A different manufacturers processing engine will be far more important than a minor change in sensor size was the gist of a number of responses.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Holy macro! That is just way too cheap! I don't want to get you worried but I think it's TOO cheap. I would be very suspicious.
    The camera's coming from a friend.....
    I know it well.....he likes SLR kinda things....

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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    The camera's coming from a friend.....
    I know it well.....he likes SLR kinda things....
    Then, whatta' deal.

    Diane

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I certainly see a difference in file between E-P1 and K20d, but it isn't night and day and to be honest sometimes I like the image the E-P1 gives me better. The AF performance does give me pause when I compare it with other cameras, but generally does what is asked of it. And it still elicits a different reaction on the street than a dSLR.

    Plus as my g/f says, the E-P1 is a beautiful camera. She hates the way her G1 looks, but likes using it. Aesthetic varies with the individual and certainly isn't *the* factor in a tool, but it is a consideration.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    With all this talk about sensor size. Most people process for the web....
    If you ever made prints...well, then you see what a camera can do.
    I did an exhibition with R-D1s prints about 11 x 14' and they were just beautiful.
    The Pen will do better than the Epson...so....
    one should find a camera that feels right and make images.....forget about the mechanics inside....that's for the engineers to play with.

    shooter

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    I've printed 20"x30" from both DLux3 and DLux4 and they look great.

    Pixel peeping is a dangerous thing...it causes paralysis in humans.

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Like I said before this is a personal opinion...at least until what I really want comes along.
    Alas, the 'perfect' for-all-seasons and all people camera doesn't exist -- nor ever will.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Why are so many people selling E-P1?

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Pixel peeping is a dangerous thing...it causes paralysis in humans.
    More like amblyopia.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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