GF-1 specs announced...

[monza]

The way I look at it, if the X1 isn't worth $2k than there is no way the M9 is worth $7k.

There simply is no relation between the price of a camera and good photography.

The X1 has superior build quality (all metal body), and the largest sensor in a compact camera. It's really the only game in town. And I *really* like the user interface. Take a look:

Isn't that fantastic? How simple can it get?

The closest competition to the X1 is a used M8 and even that is a lot more expensive when the cost of a lens is included. And I wouldn't be surprised if the IQ of the X1 is better...

 

[Ranger 9]

[snark]
You affluent Leica chaps are getting carried away with your inborn sense of entitlement by hijacking our proletarian little 4/3rd forum, and our GF-1 specs thread, to discuss your favorite camera -- which is neither 4/3 nor a GF-1.

I'm sure the moderators will be happy to give you your very own forum in which to discuss the X-1. Maybe you can get Seal to make the first post!

Meanwhile, a modicum of thread/topic discipline, please...
[/snark]

 

[monza]

Heh, the only Leica I own is a IIIf. No affluence here (maybe effluent, tho.)

Got pricing on the GF1 today.

 

[Ranger 9]

As long as there's no flatulence, I'll forgive you.

When ya think yer gonna getcher hands on summa them thar GF1s?

 

[monza]

They are saying end of the month, or early next...

 

[woodmancy]

I got lured into getting a Leica D-Lux4 a few months ago. Before that the only Leica I owned was a 111f bought second hand in 1971. Loved it, and took some nice images, but got fooled again and sold it so I could buy a Polaroid SX-80:thumbdown:

I have now decided that Micro 4/3 is for me. I have E-P1 and G1 and will keep them. I have a lot of lenses and they are always getting used. The E-P1 is a keeper, because it has on board IS, so I don't need to look too closely at the GF-1

I won't pay $2000 for a fixed lens camera - it doesn't pass the wife test :cussing:

Keith

 

[Vivek]

There simply is no relation between the price of a camera and good photography.

Yes and no.

If I had not been smitten with a variety of very accessible lenses that can be used, I would not be dealing with a G1 at all.

Where can I find a "Lux" quality for 5 Euros or a "Noct" for a few more or even a wide 0.95 (a SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 plus a 0.65X combo) a bit more?

Is the X1 worth $2000 for picture taking? For me, no.

The M9, OTOH, is a different beast.

How much is your special discount, Robert?

 

[totallynatural]

The way I look at it, if the X1 isn't worth $2k than there is no way the M9 is worth $7k.

Isn't that fantastic? How simple can it get?

I definitely have my concerns over the X1 but I have to agree about the top plate. Thats what I am looking for in a small large sensor compact - proper simple external controls dials for aperture and shutter speed (ideally iso too). Fingers crossed another manufacturer will 'copy' (for want of a better word) the rangefinder style in m4/3 format. Still hate the price, although second hand it may be an interesting proposition if image-wise it holds up
I really like the GF1 but I wish pany would put two control wheels on it (and the g1/gh1) opposed to the click-in wheel. Coming from the D300 I find that quite fiddly and often accidentally end up changing the aperture instead of shutter and vice versa (especially if in a hurry).
Have to finish my dissertation :lecture: and get another job first though!

 

[barjohn]

I have been looking at high ISO M9 files and comparing them to E-P1 high ISO files and they don't compare. The E-P1 is both cleaner and more film like without the blotchy yellow and purple areas I see on the M9 files. In fact, I can't say that there is a huge improvement over M8 files in what I have seen so far. Further, at least one M9 exhibiting lines in the image and others showing banding at high ISO. If these problems showed on the lowly $900 GH1, G1 or E-P1 it might be more forgivable but on a $7K camera, I don't think so. The M9 looks to me like very much a rush job created when Leica realized the S2 was not going to save the company.

A real new M9 should have incorporated more new technology than a larger sensor. The IR isn't completely fixed as Sean Reid's part 1 review shows and there is considerable vignetting and cyan color shift without applying in camera correction on wider lenses.

Everyone assumes the X1 will have a superior lens but since you can't see a file produced without the in camera correction applied to their raw files how do you know? Becasue Oly & Panny decided not to apply lens correction to raw files in the camera (which they could have done) and the lens are interchangeable we see all of the limits to the lenses. Further, since they were obligated to make the lenses to a 43 standard so they could be used on any 43 vendor's camera they wisely chose to include the lens correction information in the raw structure to be applied in post rather than pre. Given that the X1 appears to have the same plastic telescoping barrel lens structure seen on many inexpensive P&S cameras and they affixed it to the camera we really don't know how much is software correction and how much is lens quality. Clearly there was no attempt to make a compact fixed lens. Had the lens been made interchangeable on the X1 we would quickly have learned about sensor vignetting and other issues that can be more easily hidden with a fixed lens through software processing.

Oly and Panny took on the far more challenging technical tasks by allowing for a wide range of lenses and the issues of focusing manual lenses the the X1 avoids completely and they threw in video to boot!

 

[woodmancy]

Yes and no.

If I had not been smitten with a variety of very accessible lenses that can be used, I would not be dealing with a G1 at all.

Where can I find a "Lux" quality for 5 Euros or a "Noct" for a few more or even a wide 0.95 (a SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 plus a 0.65X combo) a bit more?

Is the X1 worth $2000 for picture taking? For me, no.

The M9, OTOH, is a different beast.

How much is your special discount, Robert?

If we set up a scenario where you could directly exchange your G1 for an M9 - would you do it? (Doesn't matter that your G1 looks like ....)

Keith

 

[Vivek]

Keith, Where can I send them to (2 of them with no visible LUMIX or the yellow L or the fake stainless steel lining)? Will throw in a black Olympus-D 17/2.8 as well.

I was going to chop the pop-up flash off one, modify it for IR.. that one is missing a couple of the electrical contacts for the lens..

The next camera for me definitely isn't going to be a combi-cam.

 

[woodmancy]

Keith, Where can I send them to (2 of them with no visible LUMIX or the yellow L or the fake stainless steel lining)? Will throw in a black Olympus-D 17/2.8 as well.

I was going to chop the pop-up flash off one, modify it for IR.. that one is missing a couple of the electrical contacts for the lens..

The next camera for me definitely isn't going to be a combi-cam.

Vivek, frankly, I am surprised - this must be an emotional response.

As I understand it, the M9 has no live view, swivel LCD, crude rangefinder focus (sorry about that, but I do have an RD-1 that is not getting used), can't handle a zoom. But it may have more pixels (which we really don't want) and as yet IQ that is unmeasured (except for Barjohn who thinks his E-P1 is better).

I have a checkered past. But sometime around 1973 I used to sell stuff to Leica in Midland, Canada. I loved my visits there, and they bought a lens coating machine from me. I worshiped my 111f until I got fooled again and sold it :thumbdown: I had an emotional relationship with Leica, but fortunately could not afford to do anything about it.

But these prices are somewhat insane. At least that's what my wife says, and she is one who must be obeyed :cussing:

I think you could get a dozen G1's for the cost of an M9, scratch and rebuild the hell out of them, and use every lens under the sun, and not notice a fig differenct in IQ.

I dread the day when Rawfa test drives a Leica M9 :deadhorse::deadhorse:

Keith

 

[Vivek]

My Epson R-D1s was traded for a tiny USB spectrophotometer because it was not being used much. I loved it with several lenses (all of them I still have).

Wouldn't test driving a camera and having the pics in a "gallery" swell.

I just am fed up with the combi-cams.

I love the fact that medium format (digital) and Leica film users come and post in the B&W thread here.

That speaks volume than any single person's opinion or endorsement. Enough said.

 

[ChrisJ]

There simply is no relation between the price of a camera and good photography.

So why aren't we all using a box Brownie?

Chris

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I haven't seen any reviewer discuss how well the EVF works. Does it have the same blackout issues of the G1?

what black out issues on the G1 ... my G1 is less of a blackout than my 5 frames per second EOS film camera

Is it hard or easy to manually focus with it? Does it magnify only the center of the image or the entire image?

do you have a G1? I would expect that it operates using exactly that paradigm (which follows the selected focus location)


even without my glasses (needed for close vision) I can see well enough to get critical focus using only the rear screen quite well..

 

[pellicle]

Probably because contrast-detect AF doesn't actually confirm focus -- it doesn't really measure focus at all, only contrast.

sounds logical but I would offer two points
1) my Nikon Coolpix and my Canon A520 both "confirm" focus
2) just how does Phase Detect know if you want the foreground or the background within the target area either?


seems both systems really depend on fast operation of lenses. I can't say I see much wrong with the AF on my G1 using the Kit lens ... its as fast as the USM lenses I have for my EOS system

 

[Vivek]

It can be made to confirm anything with a green or red dot.

The question is whether you want the metal arms of a chair to be confirmed or the wooden face of a person's eyes.

 

[m3photo]

Re: M9 high ISO files etc.

I have been looking at high ISO M9 files and comparing them to E-P1 high ISO files and they don't compare. The E-P1 is both cleaner and more film like without the blotchy yellow and purple areas I see on the M9 files.

Damn, what do I do with my $7000 now? (I wish)

 

[Godfrey]

Re: M9 high ISO files etc.

Damn, what do I do with my $7000 now? (I wish)

Oh, just buy three X1s instead. Just think: extra money for batteries, viewfinders and memory cards! ];-)