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Thread: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

  1. #4251
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M


    Pippa 2017 #3 by chrism229, on Flickr

    And once again Flickr has left me bemused by picking a photo I didn't think particularly special for 'Explore':

    Four Eyes by chrism229, on Flickr


    Chris
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  2. #4252
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Ektar today:

    Orchids 2 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Orchids 1 by chrism229, on Flickr
    Rolleiflex 2.8GX, Rolleinar 1, Ektar 100, Unicolor presskit, Hasselblad X1 scans.

    C.
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  3. #4253
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    I was concerned that the meter in my Rolleiflex wasn't right, so I used up a film with duplicate exposures, one using the internal meter and one using an external spotmeter. It turns out I was right,and the internal meter underexposes by 1-2 stops, but the funny thing is that the underexposed negatives allow me to pull out more detail in scans. This might be a quirk of the XP2 I was using. Anyway, one of the 'underexposed' negatives:





    test film by chrism229, on Flickr



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  4. #4254
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M


    Shadowcat by chrism229, on Flickr
    Rolleiflex 2.8GX, Rolleinar 1, XP2, HC-110, Hasselblad X1 scan.

    C.
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  5. #4255
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism View Post
    ...but the funny thing is that the underexposed negatives allow me to pull out more detail in scans. This might be a quirk of the XP2 I was using.
    At least in my experience scanning monochrome film, the scanner is happiest with a negative that's thinner than I'm comfortable with in the darkroom. It's sort of like contact printing in silver vs alt processes - in general you need to optimize development for one or the other, although with pyro development, because of the effects of the stain, you can sometimes get negatives that are decent switch-hitters.

    Those scans from Rolleiflex Ektar negatives are lovely! Afraid I've never been able to find a groove scanning color neg - I always end up spending way too much time mucking around in the enormous space of possible adjustments, never quite finding a color balance I'm happy with.
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  6. #4256
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    At least in my experience scanning monochrome film, the scanner is happiest with a negative that's thinner than I'm comfortable with in the darkroom. It's sort of like contact printing in silver vs alt processes - in general you need to optimize development for one or the other, although with pyro development, because of the effects of the stain, you can sometimes get negatives that are decent switch-hitters.

    Those scans from Rolleiflex Ektar negatives are lovely! Afraid I've never been able to find a groove scanning color neg - I always end up spending way too much time mucking around in the enormous space of possible adjustments, never quite finding a color balance I'm happy with.
    If by 'thinner' you mean 'flatter' (ie less contrast) I'm in agreement. Chromogenic films are often rather contrasty, so it may be that they don't behave quite as expected with scanning. I'd put it to the test, but I have so much XP2 in the freezer that I ration myself to only occasional dips into the stock of traditional B&W film.
    Ektar is a bit of a pain to scan. The easiest way to get accurate colour is to scan as raw, having used Vuescan to calibrate the orange tint of the film stock, and then invert the negative in PS with the ColorPerfect plug-in. Unfortunately, that means using the Nikon 9000 and I've been spoilt by the speed of the X1, so I simply scan it in the X1 using a home-made preset, then play with temperature and tint in LR until it looks as if it might have originated on earth. One thing I learned from my brief flirtation with developing E6 is that slides are so easy to scan, but given the longer and more complex development, time saved scanning is cancelled out!

    Chris

    C.

  7. #4257
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism View Post
    If by 'thinner' you mean 'flatter' (ie less contrast) I'm in agreement.
    What I meant was "less dense", including a lower DMax. The relationship of that with *print* contrast is complicated, and depends not just on development time but also on the shape of the characteristic curve produced by your film/developer combination, the brightness range of the scene you're photographing, where along the characteristic curve your exposure is placed, and whether you're printing with a fixed contrast grade or selecting paper contrast (or processing approach for a scan) to "stretch" the negative's density scale to fit the maximum achievable density range of the paper (or paper + inkset, for inkjet output).

    Thanks for the extra details on your approach with color neg. I've tinkered with ColorPerfect and VueScan raw a bit, but alas haven't mastered it. Probably worth some additional effort to see whether I can get that under control.
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  8. #4258
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M


    Pippa 2017 #4 by chrism229, on Flickr
    Chamonix 10x8, Nikkor-M 450mm/f9, Impact EX-100A strobe, Ilford HP5+, ISO 640, Diafine, Epson V850 scan.

    I see it's time to filter my Diafine solutions again.

    C.

  9. #4259
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    When I discovered that XP2 could be processed in B&W chemicals (I still get people who assure me this isn't possible) with very fine grain I bought an awful lot of it for the freezer. I have recently begun to experiment with abusing it in the ways that standard silver halide films can be pushed and pulled, just to see if it stands up to it. So for a starting point I exposed a roll at EI 200, and cut the processing time in half, and wandered about the house taking photos of the relatively dark interior with a bright window in the frame. I just wanted to see if I could get a reasonable image in both areas. This is the kind of thing I got:


    Experiments in Pull Processing 1 by chrism229, on Flickr

    On scanning this negative the histogram was showing it 1-2 stops underexposed, so I should try again at EI 100, or maybe just a bit longer in the developer. The other thing I'd like to do is find out of pushing it is possible without excessive grain. I know that XP2 goes very grainy in Diafine and in Qualls' monobath and I suspect I'll find I can get one stop but probably not two extra out of it before it gets too crunchy, but you don't know unless you try!
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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Back to 35mm for some orchids.


    Orchids 5 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Orchids 4 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Orchids 3 by chrism229, on Flickr

    The last one is from a full resolution .fff scan, and shows just how much detail there is in these tiny ( ) negatives!

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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    I thought I'd try increasing development time of XP2 in HC-110 to shift the histograms of my scans towards the middle. This is ten minutes in 1+49 rather than the usual eight.

    The little Downy Woodpecker has a very regular sort of mind:

    Woodpecker patterns by chrism229, on Flickr

    and some pretty patterns:

    Snow needles by chrism229, on Flickr
    Both H500c, Sonnar 150/4, XP2, HC-110, X1 scans.
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  12. #4262
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    As vaguely promised a week or two ago, I have continued to abuse XP2. Today's effort was to expose it at 1600 and guess the development time, and since yesterday, I used 10 minutes for ISO400, I used the rule of thumb that a 1/3 increase in time compensates for 1 stop of underexposure, and developed this for 18 minutes in 1+49 HC-110. I am amazed at the lack of grain!


    Experiment in Push Processing 4 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Experiment in Push Processing 3 by chrism229, on Flickr

    It looks like 3200 might be possible if I can bring myself to sit and agitate each minute for 24 minutes!

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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Well I went and did it. XP2 Super at 3200, developed in HC-110 1+49 for 24 minutes. No grain!


    Experiment in Push Processing 5 by chrism229, on Flickr

    If you click on the link there's a 4096x4096 85% JPEG. Click on that to see at 100% All this effort to make a file that could have come out of the Monochrom!

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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism View Post
    Well I went and did it. XP2 Super at 3200, developed in HC-110 1+49 for 24 minutes. No grain!


    Experiment in Push Processing 5 by chrism229, on Flickr

    If you click on the link there's a 4096x4096 85% JPEG. Click on that to see at 100% All this effort to make a file that could have come out of the Monochrom!

    Chris
    That's very impressive. Apparently I have to start doing my own processing. I'm not sure if HC-110 is available around here though. Do you think this will work equally good with other developers? I believe Ilford can be found in stock here, although not their whole range.
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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Jorgen,
    Ilford Ilfotec-HC is almost the same, and Legacy Pro make L-110 which is said to be the same but without the thickening to make the concentrate into a syrup.
    I have developed XP2 in Rodinal 1+100 for one hour, with six inversions at the start and again at 30 minutes. Expose at EI 200 for best results, and it will be sharp and smooth.
    I've used Diafine, but the result is too grainy in 35mm, but tolerable in 120. 3+3 minutes will do it.
    When I was mixing up Quall's monobath I tried it in there but it's a bit gritty and there's no advantage in XP2 over, say, HP5 if you're getting gritty pictures.
    Apart from the 1 stop pull for the Rodinal semi-stand, I haven't tried any other developers at other speeds except for the HC-110. I'm amazed at the smoothness in a film pushed three stops. 3200 has higher contrast, but what doesn't at 3200? The 1600 is a candidate for regular use. I started a thread on this at APUG, and there has been discussion about the longevity of these negatives and whether a dip in C-41 stabiliser after fixing would be better than straight PhotoFlo. It's the old thing about there being little or no silver in the film, and silver inhibits fungi, so the stabiliser contains one of the imidazole anti-fungal drugs that one uses for yeast infections (I think I read it's miconazole - Monistat in a drugstore). I've got XP2 negatives developed this way three years ago that were treated with PhotoFlo alone and there's no sign of mould.
    Today I'm trying to finish a roll of 35mm XP2 at 3200 just to see what that looks like. Unfortunately we have a blizzard, so it will probably be all the usual suspects as subjects.

    C.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism View Post
    Jorgen,
    Ilford Ilfotec-HC is almost the same, and Legacy Pro make L-110 which is said to be the same but without the thickening to make the concentrate into a syrup.
    I have developed XP2 in Rodinal 1+100 for one hour, with six inversions at the start and again at 30 minutes. Expose at EI 200 for best results, and it will be sharp and smooth.
    I've used Diafine, but the result is too grainy in 35mm, but tolerable in 120. 3+3 minutes will do it.
    When I was mixing up Quall's monobath I tried it in there but it's a bit gritty and there's no advantage in XP2 over, say, HP5 if you're getting gritty pictures.
    Apart from the 1 stop pull for the Rodinal semi-stand, I haven't tried any other developers at other speeds except for the HC-110. I'm amazed at the smoothness in a film pushed three stops. 3200 has higher contrast, but what doesn't at 3200? The 1600 is a candidate for regular use. I started a thread on this at APUG, and there has been discussion about the longevity of these negatives and whether a dip in C-41 stabiliser after fixing would be better than straight PhotoFlo. It's the old thing about there being little or no silver in the film, and silver inhibits fungi, so the stabiliser contains one of the imidazole anti-fungal drugs that one uses for yeast infections (I think I read it's miconazole - Monistat in a drugstore). I've got XP2 negatives developed this way three years ago that were treated with PhotoFlo alone and there's no sign of mould.
    Today I'm trying to finish a roll of 35mm XP2 at 3200 just to see what that looks like. Unfortunately we have a blizzard, so it will probably be all the usual suspects as subjects.

    C.
    Thank you for the explanation. I haven't done wet processing in many years... a couple of decades actually, so this may be beyond my abilities. But it's just a question of time now. I would prefer not to have to rely on labs for my processing, although I'll be trying out a couple of new ones in Bangkok for my next batch of photos. I'll check out the thread on APUG as well.

  17. #4267
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    I've just hung up the 35mm XP2 to dry, and I see a problem. The same thing happened with the 120 film - some of the frames are very thin and are probably unusable. When it happened with the 120 film, I assumed that since some were fine, and some were thin, that perhaps the shutter in my ancient Sonnar 150/4 wasn't working at some speeds (they were taken on a tripod at speeds like 1/8 and 1/4 which I probably hadn't used before). But this 35mm film has just come out of an F6 which hasn't had any problems at all and it's showing the same thing. Is it possible that the film has a threshold below which it won't register much of anything? There were no problems with the films going on the Hewes reels and no indication that the film had been in contact with itself or anything of that sort.
    So if it's going to be hit or miss I can't recommend 3200. When it's dry, I'll scan and show any decent ones simply to assess any graininess in the smaller format, but in future I'll limit myself to 1600 which didn't have that problem at all.

    Chris

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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Here is the 35mm XP2 at 3200. I don't care for the texture very much - it looks like 3200!


    Experiment in Push Processing 9 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Experiment in Push Processing 7 by chrism229, on Flickr

    I'll stick with 1600 for pushing 120 film, and I'll have to find out if the 35mm will tolerate 1600 or whether that ought to be limited to 800.

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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    I think I've come to the end of my experiments, with ISO 800 now completed. It seems it's easy to pull XP2, and to push to 800 and 1600. 3200 is hit and miss as being a half-stop out in the exposure ruins the picture. Here's an example of ISO 800, using HC-110 1+49, for 13.5 minutes:


    Experiments in Push Processing 12 by chrism229, on Flickr

    C.

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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Rolleiflex 2.8GX, XP2 Super @400, HC-110, 1+49, 10 minutes, X1 scans:


    Silly Windchime by chrism229, on Flickr


    Willow by chrism229, on Flickr


    STOP by chrism229, on Flickr

    C.

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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Kodachrome 64



    Last edited by Abstraction; 27th March 2017 at 06:22.
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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    It's snowing quite a bit today, so I took the Pen F out for a bit, but not the Rolleiflex. I took my 48 pictures and scanned about half of them, and I was surprised to see the presentable ones were from the shots taken indoors. I may add some outdoors ones tomorrow. The XP2 holds up well in the little half-frame negatives, giving smoother results than I've had with other films.


    Lladro by chrism229, on Flickr


    Shaving by chrism229, on Flickr


    Baby Oranges by chrism229, on Flickr

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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    One paper copy.
    Paper Kodak Polycontrast in Dektol.
    Mamiya C330s 105mmDS. Hp5+ in Emofin.

    [IMG]rostfrei by Trygve Bjerk, on Flickr[/IMG]

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  24. #4274
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Olympus Pen Festival, Night Prowler Edition


    Pen FT / 40/1.4 Zuiko / TX


    Pen D / TX
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    One crop from a paperprint. Old exhausted developer (10 year old opened bottle). The stripes are from my agitation with the tray.
    Camera Mamiya C220 lens 105mmDS with yellow/green filter. Film FP4 in HC-110.

    [IMG]Old chemistry by Trygve Bjerk, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Trygve
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  26. #4276
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Nice! Like tiger stripes.

    Some of our snow melted a bit today, leaving thick ice trails down the windows:

    Frozen glass by chrism229, on Flickr

    Chris
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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Realising just how much Rodinal I have stuffed into the back of the chemistry fridge, I decided I had better start using it up, so I did today's roll of Pan F in it at 11 minutes in 1+ 50.


    Willow by chrism229, on Flickr


    Phoenix by chrism229, on Flickr


    Ice Floes by chrism229, on Flickr

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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Rolleiflex 2.8GX, HP5+, Rodinal 1+50, X1 scans:


    Red Pines by chrism229, on Flickr


    Anna Swan by chrism229, on Flickr

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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Rolleiflex 2.8GX, Pan F+, Rodinal, X1 scan:


    Aged 34 years by chrism229, on Flickr

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    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Rolleiflex 2.8GX, XP2, HC-110, X1 scan:


    Hannah & Tammy by chrism229, on Flickr

    Chris
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M


    Polaroid SLR670a

    Enjoy,
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    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    From the Dept. of Small Square Negatives


    Taxona/37.5mm Tessar/TX
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M


    Polaroid SLR670a


    Polaroid SX-70


    Polaroid SX-70

    Having fun...

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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  34. #4284
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    I haven't given the 645n any love lately (150-300mm, Fuji Pro400H, Unicolor presskit, X1 scans):


    Orchids by chrism229, on Flickr


    Orchids by chrism229, on Flickr

    C.
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Every so often, a selfie is essential ...


    Impossible Project I-1

    enjoy!
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  36. #4286
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Portra 160 today:


    Cape John by chrism229, on Flickr


    Cape John by chrism229, on Flickr


    Cape John sandstone by chrism229, on Flickr

    C.
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    I bought an OM2n a couple of years ago and never got around to playing with it. I was so jealous of my brother's OM1 back in the early seventies, and I'm beginning to remember why. Those microprisms make focusing so easy for old eyes!

    50/1.4, XP2, HC-110, X1:


    Orchid by chrism229, on Flickr


    Dobson's Creek by chrism229, on Flickr


    Malagash beach by chrism229, on Flickr

    I'm going for my last opera weekend in Toronto next week, and I'm thinking I shall take this little beauty just for fun.

    C.
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  38. #4288
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Got up at 6.30am and opened the curtains to find some mist on the river.

    Pentax K2, 50mm/f1.2, Fuji Neopan 400, Rodinal, X1 scan:

    Mist 6.30am by chrism229, on Flickr

    C.

  39. #4289
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    OM2n, 50/1.4 (first), 28/2 (rest), Portra 160, Unicolor presskit, X1 scans:


    Red Right Return by chrism229, on Flickr


    Season starts tomorrow by chrism229, on Flickr


    Bayhead by chrism229, on Flickr

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  40. #4290
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    OM-2n, 28/2, Pan F @25, Rodinal, X1 scan:

    Brule Point by chrism229, on Flick


    Abandoned house by chrism229, on Flickr

    Chris
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  41. #4291
    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Chris, enjoying your production with the Olympus. They seem to have a certain presence which really makes them stand out.
    All the best,
    John
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  42. #4292
    Senior Member PenSon's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Lith Print from Pentax 67II, 45mm.
    Kodak polycontrast paper and Kodalith developer.

    [IMG]Lith8mai17 by Trygve Bjerk, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Trygve
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  43. #4293
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    OM-2n, 28/2, XP2, HC-110, X1 scans:


    Gargoyle by chrism229, on Flickr


    Flatiron 3 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Flatiron 1 by chrism229, on Flickr

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  44. #4294
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    OM-2n, 28/2, XP2, HC-110, X1 scan:

    Pineapple by chrism229, on Flickr

    OM-2n, 85/2, XP2, HC-110, X1 scans:

    Lily 2 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Lily 1 by chrism229, on Flickr

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  45. #4295
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    The urge to experiment is upon me again. Running low on HC-110, but with several bottles of Rodinal equivalent in the fridge, I decided it was time to figure out XP2 in Rodinal. I know I can get great results if I expose at ISO200 and develop in 1+100 Rodinal for one hour, but what about something quicker? Looking around I found a blog with examples of ISO200 in Rodinal 1+50 for 9 minutes (here) so I figured by halving the exposure for ISO400 I ought to increase the development by one third, ie 12 minutes. Well, I got a set of rather low contrast negatives, very suitable for scanning, but not so easy for wet prints. It needs more time, but that gets boring. I might try 1+25 for nine minutes next. Curiously, the film lost its characteristic purple base after being developed this way, which would make wet printing simpler.

    Pentax SF1n, 50/1.4, X1 scans:

    Spanish Dancer 2 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Spanish Dancer 1 by chrism229, on Flickr


    Chair by chrism229, on Flickr

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  46. #4296
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    New York City





    OM-1 / 50/1.8 / XP2
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  47. #4297
    Senior Member chrism's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Pentax SF1n, 28mm/2.8, Agfa Vista 400, Unicolor presskit, X1 scan:


    Barrachois driftwood by chrism229, on Flickr

    Same but 100/2.8 Macro:

    Magnolia by chrism229, on Flickr


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  48. #4298
    Senior Member PenSon's Avatar
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    Re: More and more film fun with something other than a Leica M

    Print with selfmade developer. (ParaLith -Paracetamol/Ascorbic Acid/Sodium Carbonate)
    Paper Kodak Polycontrast III
    Ilford Delta 100, Hasselblad C/M 500, 100mm.

    [IMG]PolyPLith by Trygve Bjerk, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Trygve
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