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Thread: What to do?

  1. #1
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    What to do?

    Okay, here's the quandary I'm in:

    At this point, my photography is totally digital, and has been since around 2000. I love digital! Problem is, I still feel drawn to shooting film. Or more correctly perhaps, I really miss the feel of a Leica rangefinder body. I've had a couple of film Leica's over the years and there's something undefinable about holding and using one that I guess I still miss.

    I know, I know, the obvious answer that many of you are thinking is "Get the M8". Well, I did that, I had two of them. And while they were nice and I do miss occasionally them, they just weren't everything I thought a digital M should be. But that's not really what I'm talking about.

    My current craving revolves around having a smallish body with a 35 or 40 mm lens to be used almost exclusively for black and white work. I'm toying with the idea of picking up an older M body or possibly a new Bessa and an appropriate lens. That would take care of the camera side of the equation.

    The other issue of course, is the development of the film. I'm absolutely not set up to do this myself anymore, nor do I really want to. So part of the feedback I'm looking for, if you may be in the same position as I am, is what do you do about getting your black-and-white film developed and scanned.

    With the ever shrinking resources available for film-based photographers, I wonder whether this is really a viable option anymore. Is it relatively easy to get film developed with simple contact sheets these days? What about the type of scanning available "across the counter", does it really produce results that are good enough, or is scanning something I need to do myself? And if the answer to that is yes, what do you recommend for a scanner these days?

    I've had film scanners before, but this was years ago, and I'm sure things have improved, and hopefully prices have come down. Frankly, if the cost of a good scanner is beyond a certain level, I'm just going to stick with digital.

    The other option for me at this point is to wait for the DP2 to become available. I already have the DP1 and I find it a fabulous camera, especially for black-and-white work. And, while I love DP1's wide-angle, the DP2 promises the focal length that I'm interested in, as well as a better aperture range than the DP1 for more expressive compositions.

    The DP2 also alleviates all of the above problems in regards to using film, and it will give me the immediacy that I've come to expect with digital.

    Is anybody else out there having the same kinds of thoughts and questions?

    Cheers,

  2. #2
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    okay this is where I have my black and white megative film developed! this guy is great and I love that he puts the negs in pages etc,

    http://mylab.com/

    for positives I use www.Dr5.com

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Why scan B&W film? Why not print it. Printing is one reason, I keep looking at 8x10 LF. Printing can be a simple contact print.

    As for development all you really need is a tank and a changing bag.

    If you want a scanner, look at the Epson 750. I got to use one a few weeks ago and it is outstanding. For 35mm film I have a Nikon 5000ED but have not set it up yet but it was a deal thad could not be passed by.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    okay this is where I have my black and white megative film developed! this guy is great and I love that he puts the negs in pages etc,

    http://mylab.com/

    for positives I use www.Dr5.com
    Thanks for that, but I'm in Canada and I sure don't want to deal with exporting and importing hassles!


    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    As for development all you really need is a tank and a changing bag.

    If you want a scanner, look at the Epson 750. I got to use one a few weeks ago and it is outstanding.
    John,

    Thanks for the tip on the scanner, I'll check it out. As for developing, I know it's simple (did it for many, many years) but I don't want to have to deal with chemicals any longer.

    Cheers,

  5. #5
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Well I have taken a Major Plunge
    back to Film
    This past summer i bought an m4
    and went between that and an Rd1
    but the more I looked at the Film Image
    the more I became Hooked
    Then Eric took my m4 having caught the same bug...
    So I got an M2
    started developing this past Winter /sitting on the Living Room Floor w/ changing bag
    and off to the Bathroom to develop...
    23 minutes Later waiting for the negs to dry
    and then off to local photo shop to have the negs scanned @ $5.00 a roll.
    Thats my Life at the Moment
    and I'm Quite Content
    I LOVE Contrast & could not achieve as much ATMOSPHERE w/Digital

    But I will certainly ADMIT my PP skills are limited
    whereas when I do Film very Little tweaking is Involved-

    Best of Luck with whatever You Choose....

  6. #6
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    I know the guy from mylab deals with people from all over the world with no problem as does Dr5..

    and canada does have the best hockey players!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    I know the guy from mylab deals with people from all over the world with no problem as does Dr5..

    and canada does have the best hockey players!!
    I'm not so worried about the company dealing with Canada as I am about the difficulties that I might have. Sending things across the border can be problematic going both ways.

    Ciao,

  8. #8
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Well I have taken a Major Plunge
    back to Film
    This past summer i bought an m4
    and went between that and an Rd1
    but the more I looked at the Film Image
    the more I became Hooked
    Then Eric took my m4 having caught the same bug...
    So I got an M2
    started developing this past Winter /sitting on the Living Room Floor w/ changing bag
    and off to the Bathroom to develop...
    23 minutes Later waiting for the negs to dry
    and then off to local photo shop to have the negs scanned @ $5.00 a roll.
    Thats my Life at the Moment
    and I'm Quite Content
    I LOVE Contrast & could not achieve as much ATMOSPHERE w/Digital

    But I will certainly ADMIT my PP skills are limited
    whereas when I do Film very Little tweaking is Involved-

    Best of Luck with whatever You Choose....
    Thanks Helen, it's nice to hear your take on it. My problem with doing the developing myself is twofold... one, we currently live in a basement suite and the smell of the developer would be a bear to get rid of, and two, I really don't like the idea of having to cope with disposing of the used chemicals. (I've gotten a whole lot "greener" in my old age!)

    I just checked on the cost of a scanner and yikes! I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be better off in sticking with digital. I sense that the GAS attack would be much more severe going back to the film paradigm than if I keep on course for the DP2.

    I'm really quite satisfied with my B&W conversions these days (especially from the DP1), so I may just as well stick with it. In my heart of hearts I should probably admit that I simply have gear lust for the Leica and get over it! I actually bought an M4-P a couple of years ago but right after that, I bought the two M8s, so the M4-P just sat there until I finally sold it. Damn... should have just kept it (just like the M6TTL and the M7 I also had).

    Cheers,

  9. #9
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    I've recently been working through a similar scenario leading up to my Rolleiflex TLR purchase. I spent almost 20 years wishing I could return to photography but because I was unable to get a darkroom going, I never did. I was relieved when digital started to emerge as an alternative. But I now want to do both.

    The breakthrough for me was finding a photographic collaborative darkroom located about 2 hours away. I can rent time there to use either the film or print darkrooms for a modest fee. It's a bit of a drive, but I think it's going to be worth it.

    You might look for something similar in your area. Maybe at a University or school that offers photo classes. In the end, if it comes down to developing film in the bathroom sink, that might not be so bad.

    The scanning is another matter and will no doubt involve a purchase. But for now I'm taking it a step at a time.

    I wish you well with your film dream!

  10. #10
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    I'm not so worried about the company dealing with Canada as I am about the difficulties that I might have. Sending things across the border can be problematic going both ways.

    Ciao,
    I hear you, I can check with some canadians I know and ask who they utilize..

    I love film...

  11. #11
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Ok just my pennies worth...personal feelings only .. your mileage may vary

    in the last week i have developed my first film in 20+ years.. and become the prou owner of a lietz/minola CL ( wont call it a leica CL in fear of upsetting the more obsessive :-)... but form factor wise that still that is what the M8 should have been :-)

    My initial experience is that going back to film, while potentially rewarding is a longer, more frustrating experience than digital.

    First of all there is the act of taking the photo - no auto exposure and of lesser importance no auto focus. No instant preview and the fact if you have black and white film then all you will ever get is black and white. I know most of the history of photography learned to live with this - but going back is unsettling at times

    then you have the developing - easy to do - and not very time consuming - but you are entering a world of infinite variables- film developer, temperature time, quality of water, dust content of your apartment - and thats before you try and read everybodies opinon of what is the best film/developer combnation.

    Cross that hurdle and you have a negative, in focus and exposed correctly and dust free then there is the scanning. I use a Plustek 7300 - not expensive and not, I am sure the the best quality but as Nikon seems to be the only other game in town then you have to live with that - the issue is the software - I am a black belt ninja in working/demonstrating/training in software - I have been doing it a long time over all sorts of areas from music to video and desktop publishing and the supposed best bits of software Vue scan and Silverfast are unredeeming piles of crap in terms of user interface - I am sure they can produce great results - but they are not for the innocent user.

    Even if you pass the scanning hurdle - then you enter the Photoshop hell - now i know many digital photographers already paddle or indeed swim free in this pool.. but it is still a scary place ... and already you are working with at least one more layer of variables than the digital photographer ( digital = exposure/RAW/PP film=exposure/developing/scanning /PP). And don't underestimate the time required for spotting and removing all those dust and scratches that appear at the slightest provocation

    Overall the whole process is more out of my control than my current workflow which is shoot on Olympus 510 import to Aperture spend 5 minutes tweaking and then send to flickr

    Are my photos better on film or digital - actually don't know - haven't really shot back to back with the same lenses on both mediums.

    There is a romance to film and indeed a look - and for certain work it is the the only way to go - but it ain't easy.

    cheers

    K

  12. #12
    Member popum's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    I'll join you in this hell of indecision. I've been considering a return to film and have decided that it only made sense if the film gave me something SIGNIFICANT that digital didn't. For me, significant means more than a personal feel for the image. At the end of the day, 35mm, and 120 were not enough different from digital to warrant the extra effort that film involves and was described above. I'm now going down the path of exploring 4x5 LF to get the tilt and swings that are not available in most digital set-ups. I believe that this would open up a different POV in my photography.

    Can anyone suggest a good 12 step program.

    Mike

  13. #13
    DougDolde
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    Re: What to do?

    Not really. I really enjoyed the process of shooting with a view camera. But then there is that nasty scanning part. If you want a top quality scan there's no way getting around paying for a drum scan.

    My Aptus 75S is amazing and really much more versatile than a 45 setup. I can experiment all I want, bracket every shot, and process the files as soon as I get home. The wind doesn't bother me like it did with a 45 and it's much easier to shoot a long focal length.

    Sometimes I think about wanting another film camera, but it's mostly just nostalgia.

  14. #14
    Super Duper
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    Re: What to do?

    I bought a used Dimage Scan IV for under $200, and shoot B&W C41, get it processed at the local grocery for about $3, and it's scanned at that time in low res onto CD. I pick the best images, and use the Dimage to get a higher quality scan.

  15. #15
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Kevin,

    Thanks for your detailed reply. As I was reading it, I was remembering much of what you were experiencing in terms of aggravations re the film-to-digital workflow process.

    Mike,

    Yes, you hit it right on the head... it's simply not SIGNIFICANT enough for me for my photographic requirements to go this route.

    Doug,

    You've also nailed it... nostalgia is a large part of my dilemma. A nostalgia for a way of working that was once the only route, as well as a longing for the feel of an Leica M series camera.

    Monza,

    You certainly seem to have a pretty easy flow there... I envy you that. I'm still not convinced that it would be quite so simple for me, plus I'd need to invest in a fair bit of equipment that would inevitably see little use.


    I seem to have convinced myself of sticking with digital and waiting for the DP2 to satisfy my desires for an optimum 40mm solution in a small package. I'll leave any further discussion to the rest of you who may be still on the fence!

    Cheers,

  16. #16
    nei1
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    Re: What to do?

    Doug,after looking at some of the terrific vistas on your website and your change over from 5x4 to digital back I was wondering which you prefer in terms of image quality,accuracy of what you see to what you get if you like.Obviously on the whole digital works better for you but if you are indeed getting better accuracy using digital how far up the digital ladder do you need to be to achieve this(or how low could be got away with)Also have you ever used a monochrome only back and if so what did you think of it.Sorry to ask so many questions but after looking at your wonderful website I feel youre in a pretty unique position to answer my questions,thanks...........Neil.

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    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Simon,
    I find working with film very satisfying. It is a slower process for me. I have a couple of film M's. I enjoy the metering and setting up and I like the look that film brings.

    I shoot C41 and take my roll to the local drugstore. They develop it for just over $2.00 per roll (in one hour). I use a Nikon film scanner and proceed like Monza does. I have found scans from the drugstore to only be usable for a catalog, so I wouldn't suggest you use them for scanning. An established photo lab would be better, but probably more costly.

    I just bought a Rolleiflex and am exploring a new scanner. If you think you would only be shooting 35mm, then I would recommend the Nikon V ED. I am going to need one that scans 120, too. I'm also going to start developing my own film, but only because I want to.

    You could put a kit together with a CL and 40mm cron with a Nikon V for about $1000. If you don't like the process, you would lose very little reselling it. You wouldn't take a hit like you will if you buy a new DP2 and don't like it. Just my 2Cents.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    My Aptus 75S is amazing and really much more versatile than a 45 setup. I can experiment all I want, bracket every shot, and process the files as soon as I get home. The wind doesn't bother me like it did with a 45 and it's much easier to shoot a long focal length.
    In all honesty, we're talking a significant difference in investment here, so while comparison is relevant WRT workflow and IQ, it might not be once you look at the financials. It depends on the pricetag of your time and your financing opportunities.

    When I set out to travel a few years ago, I picked up two Toyo 8x10 monorails on ebay (one as spare) for $500 each. At that time (2003), moving to MFDB would have been financially impossible for me, as this was not photography that would directly generate revenue.

    Granted MF digital is much cheaper today, but there is still the issue of initial investment and writeoffs.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  19. #19
    DougDolde
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    Re: What to do?

    Lars, I do indeed admire anyone who shoots 8x10. And you use it well !

  20. #20
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Lars, I do indeed admire anyone who shoots 8x10. And you use it well !
    Thanks Doug My decision might have been different today, a 40+MP MF back would have been an interesting alternative. Your 75S back sells from Calumet for $18K... still out of reach.
    Last edited by Lars; 23rd March 2009 at 00:16.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  21. #21
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    Re: What to do?

    Hi Simon
    I did this two years ago.
    I bought an M6ttl and a Nikon 5000 scanner, and, for a month, I shot nothing but film (40 or 50 rolls).
    I had them developed in a local lab (excellent and fast) and then scanned them myself.
    I enjoyed the kit, the nostalgia and the 'feel' of the results . . . but there it ended, I usually had to do more PP to get what I wanted from the scans, so the actual workload was more than doubled, the scanning was an absolute pain in the ***, slow and needing constant intervention.
    I still do some scanning, as I'm gradually digitising my old film negatives, and the conclusion I came to is that you can either do it 'well enough', or you can do it 'properly'. Properly means wet scanning, and it's doubtful if the Nikon's are good enough for that. 'well enough' means an Epson V700 or V750 - these are actually quite a pleasure to use, and you can get pretty good scans in a fraction of the time taken with the Nikon Scanner.

    As for the results - well, 2 years ago, there was a definite feel to film which was really difficult to duplicate. These days, with tools like Silver efex pro even that isn't really true (before anyone jumps in, I'm not saying that the results are the same - but there is definitely a rule of diminishing returns going on).

    To sum it up. If you have lots of time on your hands, and you're willing to go at it full tilt, then fine. If you haven't . . . . then stick with digital. If you DO decide to go with film . . . . I'd get an Epson V series scanner FIRST, and then get the very few shots where it isn't good enough scanned by a pro.

    Just this guy you know

  22. #22
    nei1
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    Re: What to do?

    I dont think you can wet scan 35mm(could be wrong here but Id have thought the sprocket holes could cause problems) and neither an epson 5 or 700 is good enough for 35mm,if you couldnt get a decent scan from your 5000 easily then maybe there is something wrong with it,its not that hard really.Maybe you should have it checked and have another go.It would be a shame to be stuck with digital if you really want to use film,and all because of a faulty scanner.
    Last edited by nei1; 23rd March 2009 at 08:23.

  23. #23
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    I dont think you can wet scan 35mm(could be wrong here but Id have thought the sprocket holes could cause problems) and neither an epson 5 or 700 is good enough for 35mm,if you couldnt get a decent scan from your 5000 easily then maybe there is something wrong with it,its not that hard really.Maybe you should have it checked and have another go.It would be a shame to be stuck with digital if you really want to use film,and all because of a faulty scanner.
    Hi Neil
    Those are pretty categoric statements about the Epson scanners - I've got about 3000 scans that tell me different (you may be right about wet scanning, I've never tried it).

    As for the 5000 - it worked, the scans were okay (although very grainy with black and white), but it was so labour intensive and so very very slow.

    I don't want to shoot film anymore - but I was sharing my experiences as, after 6 years solid digital, I invested a lot of time and effort into trying to like film again.

    Just this guy you know

  24. #24
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Simon
    I enjoyed the kit, the nostalgia and the 'feel' of the results . . . but there it ended, I usually had to do more PP to get what I wanted from the scans, so the actual workload was more than doubled, the scanning was an absolute pain in the ***, slow and needing constant intervention.
    Jono,

    I have a strong feeling this would be exactly the case if I proceeded. It would all end up sitting on a shelf, unused and then up for sale. I've convinced myself to stay digital at this point.

    I'm also questioning the DP2 purchase however, and considering that a better option might be the Panny 20mm f1.7 lens for my G1s. This should be a good lens and should have an advantage over the DP2's f2.8 lens. I'm finding the G1s to be such great little cameras to use, and they're small and light enough that with the pancake on, they're not a whole lot bigger than the DP1/2. Plus, if I need more capability from my files, I still have my D300s.

    The question, of course, is what will the 20/1.7 be like, and when will it be available? Hopefully we'll be able to see it before the fall and so I think I'm going to hold off on the DP2 until I have that option available for comparison.

    Cheers,

  25. #25
    Super Duper
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    Re: What to do?

    HI Simon
    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Jono,

    I have a strong feeling this would be exactly the case if I proceeded. It would all end up sitting on a shelf, unused and then up for sale. I've convinced myself to stay digital at this point.
    Right, now that I've given you reasons to be sensible, please can you tell me a good reason why I don't need to buy the Zeiss 135 f1.8 to go with my Sony A900 . . . I'm struggling to keep my card in my pocket!

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    I'm also questioning the DP2 purchase however, and considering that a better option might be the Panny 20mm f1.7 lens for my G1s. This should be a good lens and should have an advantage over the DP2's f2.8 lens. I'm finding the G1s to be such great little cameras to use, and they're small and light enough that with the pancake on, they're not a whole lot bigger than the DP1/2. Plus, if I need more capability from my files, I still have my D300s.

    The question, of course, is what will the 20/1.7 be like, and when will it be available? Hopefully we'll be able to see it before the fall and so I think I'm going to hold off on the DP2 until I have that option available for comparison.

    Cheers,
    Well, there aren't many duffers in the realm of 4/3 lenses, and I'd expect the 20/1.7 to be a fine lens, and I'm sure it'll be available by the autumn, possibly together with some Olympus contenders

    Just this guy you know

  26. #26
    nei1
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    Re: What to do?

    Jono,Im pretty sure about the scanners,Im sure you have good scans,I have great scans(minolta dimage 5400 mk1)and anyone who has an imacon or drumscanner will have superb scans.It is more work ,it is more expensive,and yes I think probably you spend as much time on post as with digital(not sure here)but film is definatly better at the moment,for how much longer I dont know.


    Simon you can try film in a cheaper way,(get your self an old named slr and 50mm lens)when you have one shot you like send it off to be drum scanned and then process to taste.
    If either of you can think of a way to do this Id gladly scan a negative each for you just to not lose a couple of souls to the digital dark side.

  27. #27
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Simon
    Right, now that I've given you reasons to be sensible, please can you tell me a good reason why I don't need to buy the Zeiss 135 f1.8 to go with my Sony A900 . . . I'm struggling to keep my card in my pocket!
    Sorry Jono, that sounds like a sweet lens to have. Had I a Sony system, I'd be lusting after it too!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, there aren't many duffers in the realm of 4/3 lenses, and I'd expect the 20/1.7 to be a fine lens, and I'm sure it'll be available by the autumn, possibly together with some Olympus contenders
    That's certainly my hope. I'm very tempted to get the Oly 25mm f2.8 pancake though, it's Cdn$ 279 and the pictures I've seen from it show some nice DOF and bokeh. It would certainly work nicely until the 20mm comes available.

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Simon you can try film in a cheaper way,(get your self an old named slr and 50mm lens)...
    Neil, Actually I have an Olympus XA3 that I took out last week. It still has a roll of XP2 in it from the last time I took it out... 2 exposures gone (and probably pictures of my feet). It's going to go back into the closet with that roll still in it. Digital wins out once again.

    Cheers,

  28. #28
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: What to do?

    One advantage that film has over digital is that the cost of the sensor scales linearly with sensor size, for that reason with film you should go big. At least MF, preferable larger. In my view, a 4x5 together with an Epson V700 scanner with wetmounting seems to be the sweet spot for film today. You get film originals, scans at 20-50 megapixels, you can contact print, get into digital negatives and hybrid processes for platinum printing, and the investment is quite moderate.

    If you really want a non-digital photographic experience then a 4x5 technical field is the way to go.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    but film is definatly better at the moment,for how much longer I dont know.
    Apples are DEFINITELY better than oranges
    No question

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    Re: What to do?

    Nothing digital looks like film. It is the reason to use it. Not to the exclusion of digital of course, but to keep the photographic experiences diverse and creative.

    IMO, the use of a film camera is less intrusive on the photographic experience ... and the whole notion of not being able to double "chimp" everything is part of that.
    Of course, you could turn all that off on your digital camera and shoot like a film camera ... ahhh, right, like that'll happen ....

    Once you get a grasp of working with film, it becomes second nature ... and, counter to all the rationalization of digital review capabilities, it's something I personally never even think about when shooting film. I just shoot, pure and simple. Either you trust your abilities or you don't. IMO, that was a key aspect of shooting a Leica M.

    Processing is part of the "emotional discipline" (a fast disappearing concept in photography) .... ME WANTS IT NOW MOMMY ... WAAAA ....

    I personally enjoy escaping the digital drudgery from time-to-time. I love folks who whine about scanning a well chosen frame, then slavishly spend 500% more time processing 50 mediocre digital shots (of the 500 they shot) to plaster on the web. (not that any of you folks here do that ...

    Okay, I admit it ... I'm a hypocrite ... I dropped a bundle on a film scanner that'll do a super high resolution 35mm scan in under 2 minutes because ... ME WANTS IT NOW!

    I'll shoot B&W film as long as they make it.

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    Re: What to do?

    [COLOR="Red"]
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I love folks who whine about scanning a well chosen frame, then slavishly spend 500% more time processing 50 mediocre digital shots (of the 500 they shot) to plaster on the web. (not that any of you folks here do that ...
    The cap fits . . . (at least, most of it, all except the 500% bit) so I'll wear it. Still, only being able to take mediocre shots . . . it would be sad to waste even more time processing that mediocrity.

    here is the criminal evidence . . . actually, it's 54 shots out of 523, but you were pretty close:

    La Rosiere 2009

    Mind you . . . I must hone up my skills on the throwaway insult front
    Last edited by jonoslack; 23rd March 2009 at 15:25.

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    [COLOR="Red"]

    The cap fits . . . (at least, most of it, all except the 500% bit) so I'll wear it. Still, only being able to take mediocre shots . . . it would be sad to waste even more time processing that mediocrity.

    here is the criminal evidence . . . actually, it's 54 shots out of 523, but you were pretty close:

    La Rosiere 2009

    Mind you . . . I must hone up my skills on the throwaway insult front

    This http://www.slack.co.uk/newsite/2009/...9/large-4.html is seriously good.

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Thank you - I was pleased with it too - interesting trying to hold steady whilst teetering on skis!

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    Re: What to do?

    Were all guilty of the occasional wagging finger ,no Jono?Take your medicine like a man and make the next photo you post as good as the one above ,in your opinion that is as its YOU thats on show.That is a beautiful photo by the way and is the best way to convert us "grumpy old basterds" over to the digital future.Chin up.

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    Re: What to do?

    Hi Neil
    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Were all guilty of the occasional wagging finger ,no Jono?Take your medicine like a man
    Oh! I thought that was exactly what I was doing . However, I have seen that particular finger wagging in other directions where it has caused some very deep, considerable and lasting offence, so perhaps shutting up about it is not the best policy - It was not this direction I hasten to add. Sometimes it's better not to be too personal to people that you don't know, wouldn't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    make the next photo you post as good as the one above ,in your opinion that is as its YOU thats on show.That is a beautiful photo by the way and is the best way to convert us "grumpy old basterds" over to the digital future.Chin up.
    There is always an issue as to what one actually posts - that gallery will be looked at by a lot of people who have nothing to do with internet forums, or who have more than a passing interest in photography. Generally speaking I'd accept that one good photo out of a week's skiing is a reasonable kind of return (mind you, I think there are other decent shots in there as well . . did you write all the rest off as 'mediocre'?). On the other hand, it's not a great display for people who were there, or who are interested to see what the place looks like, to post only one shot!
    Perhaps it's time to have two websites . . . . or none at all?

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    Re: What to do?

    Just do it. Get some 2nd hand gear and lots of film and start enjoying! Simple as that.

    Good luck.
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Neil

    Oh! I thought that was exactly what I was doing . However, I have seen that particular finger wagging in other directions where it has caused some very deep, considerable and lasting offence, so perhaps shutting up about it is not the best policy - It was not this direction I hasten to add. Sometimes it's better not to be too personal to people that you don't know, wouldn't you think?
    I can't edit this post anymore, but for anyone looking, I'd like to say that I've had an excellent PM correspondence with Marc over this, and if I could withdraw this remark then I would.

    It's good to talk

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    Re: What to do?

    Well, now I've done it! I spotted a Leica M6 Titanium in great shape yesterday on Craig's List and jumped at it. As I'd hoped, it is indeed in immaculate condition, and today I have a CV 35mm f1.4 SC lens on the way for it. I had the CV 21mm f4 P lens left from my M8 days, so that's residing on the camera now, but I needed a more "normal" lens (and normal for me is wider than for most people). I'm really going to try to discipline myself and just start out with these two lenses and put off any other lens investments until I know for sure I'm going to actually use this camera on a somewhat regular basis.

    So, now I have to find a local place to get films developed and hopefully scanned to start off and then I'll look into getting an Epson scanner. In the meantime, some of my Nikon gear is going on the block to help pay for all of this.

    As we'd discussed earlier in this thread, there's just something about the Leica Ms that speaks to many of us. I'd no sooner picked up this body than I knew I just had to have it. Hopefully, this time around, I'll have the sense NOT to sell it sometime in the future! (Former owner of M6TTL, M7, M8s and Noctilux.)

    Thanks to all of you for your insights and observations and hopefully sometime soon I'll be able to contribute to this subforum as a film shooter.

    Cheers,

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    Re: What to do?

    Hi Simon
    Good luck with it - I'm afraid I'd have jumped at that as well - irresistible.

    When I had my M6ttl, I only had a couple of M lenses . . . now I'm beginning to be tempted by the idea of the WATE on FF . .. oh dear!

    . . . . . even worse, a casual glance found an M7 .58 at a sensible price aaaaaaaahhhhhh what HAVE you done!
    Last edited by jonoslack; 25th March 2009 at 11:07. Reason: to add some horror

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    Re: What to do?

    Nice one Simon,I would think twice about the epson scanner,it is not good enough for 35mmm,look forward to seeing your first shots........best,Neil.

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Nice one Simon,I would think twice about the epson scanner,it is not good enough for 35mmm,look forward to seeing your first shots........best,Neil.
    Hi Nei1
    William seems pleased with his Epson . . . . (aren't you William?)

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  42. #42
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    Re: What to do?

    William shoots 6x6 mainly Jono(thats a much bigger neg Jono) and the epson is perfect for that size of negative.

    Im sorry Jono, I thought you understood all of this.......best of luck,Neil.

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    Re: What to do?

    Yep the Epsons have a reputation of being slightly soft/blurry. True resolving power seems to be approx. half of nominal CCD resolution. The sweet spot for Epson scanners is 4x5". A Nikon 35mm scanner isn't that expensive. And there are lots of other good dedicated 35mm scanners.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    William shoots 6x6 mainly Jono(thats a much bigger neg Jono) and the epson is perfect for that size of negative.

    Im sorry Jono, I thought you understood all of this.......best of luck,Neil.
    Hi Neil
    I understand nothing . . . . I thought you understood this by now

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    Re: What to do?

    Well Ive learnt a lot from your posts jono,long may you continue,.........Neil.

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    Re: What to do?

    Gents,

    Thanks for the feedback on the choice of scanner. I guess I've got a lot of research to do on this at some point. I'm really hoping that I can get something that is cost effective and yet still gives a good result for 35mm. Any further suggestions on this topic would be gratefully received.

    Ciao,

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Nei1
    William seems pleased with his Epson . . . . (aren't you William?)
    I'm very pleased with my Epson V700( had it for a week now). I use it mostly for medium format but I have also scanned a lot of 35mm to the point where my coolscan left me yesterday. I have been using the coolscan iV (2900 dpi) since beginning of 2002 and the result are very nice.

    I scanned a lot of 35 mm with the epson v700 for the past few days just to see how it would hold up and I was pleasantly surprised. Negs are scanned at 3200 dpi (epson holders) with silverfast SE and post is done in PS. The main difference is that you need to sharpen the negs a bit more with the v700. I did some prints yesterday from 35mm on a epson 2880, print size 11x17 and wow! I have alsways said that there is quite a difference between looking at a screeen and prints and I will stick to that. I prefer to spend my $$ on film and prints and therefore decided to buy the v700. In case I have a really difficult neg/slide I will just get it drumscanned at the local lab.

    For medium format it rocks too!

    Hope this helps.
    Cheers,
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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Well Ive learnt a lot from your posts jono,long may you continue,.........Neil.
    Thank you Neil, and I from yours - I've also often enjoyed reading them

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    Re: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by emmawest72 View Post
    I'm very pleased with my Epson V700( had it for a week now). I use it mostly for medium format but I have also scanned a lot of 35mm to the point where my coolscan left me yesterday. I have been using the coolscan iV (2900 dpi) since beginning of 2002 and the result are very nice.

    I scanned a lot of 35 mm with the epson v700 for the past few days just to see how it would hold up and I was pleasantly surprised. Negs are scanned at 3200 dpi (epson holders) with silverfast SE and post is done in PS. The main difference is that you need to sharpen the negs a bit more with the v700. I did some prints yesterday from 35mm on a epson 2880, print size 11x17 and wow! I have alsways said that there is quite a difference between looking at a screeen and prints and I will stick to that. I prefer to spend my $$ on film and prints and therefore decided to buy the v700. In case I have a really difficult neg/slide I will just get it drumscanned at the local lab.

    For medium format it rocks too!

    Hope this helps.
    Cheers,
    Thank you William - it certainly does.
    I have one of the older Epson scanners, and I just wanted these words to tip me over the edge - I'll be picking up a V700 on Monday.

    Whether to buy a film M to go with it is another matter . . .

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    Re: What to do?

    The V700 aren't that bad on 35mm

    Shot c.15 years ago - Canon T90 - Velvia - cropped to remove rubbish.
    Last edited by ReeRay; 26th March 2009 at 07:21. Reason: date of shot

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