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Thread: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

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    If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    HI there
    Well, I might . . . considering.
    I'd rather start with one type of film and learn it a bit rather than trying lots of different films.


    What research I've done makes me lean toward Ilford Delta 100 or 400. It seems safe to start processing it in Rodinal (although how we ever get anything to 20C in this house is a bit of a mystery!).

    Anybody got any better suggestions?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    hey Jono Dearest...
    I have been primarily working with
    Arista Premium 400 / otherwise 'known' as a SPOT ON copy of Tri X

    I purchase it here in the States from 'FREESTYLE'
    they ship Worldwide
    Arista Premium 400 runs: $1.99 cant beat that Price for Superb Quality & Tri X runs $3.49/36exp
    otherwise I adore Neopan 1600

    At present I use Rodinal which I like very much
    but hear wonderful things about Ilford DDx

    I won't do the powders D76 or Xtol just because of dealing with mixing powders in a bucket and then changing into a bottle & powder dust /etc
    (even though they are more forgiving and easier to work with )

    Another FAB film to Consider is the Ilford Pan F Plus/50
    Unfortunately I don't know about Ilford delta 100 / 400

    Well theres my Two Cents.......How lovely an M7
    Last edited by helenhill; 28th March 2009 at 14:04.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI there
    Well, I might . . . considering.

    Anybody got any better suggestions?
    DIGITAL ?





    I'm sorry Jono, but I couldn't resist ...
    All the best.
    Bart ...

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Oh, Helen you must try D76 and Tri-X. You don't mix it in bucket. You get a nice brown 1 gallon Plastic jug. Pour the powder into the jug via a funnel. Add distilled water to jug via funnel. Shake until dissolved. Then use a graduated cylinder to measure what you need for the developing tank and chill it down in an ice water bath. If you don't want to shake, pick up cheap used Magnetic stirrer.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    +1 for D-76. Lovely stuff.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    i like tri-x, developed in HC110, dilution B (used as a oneshot developer about 11cc/500cc water, as i recall)
    i have a temp problem as well, so i used metal tanks and reels this way.
    mix hot and cold tap water to get your 68f/20C temp and fill a large container (4 liter)
    with the film on the reel and in the tank, fill the tank with just water at 20C. hit the tank with your palm a couple of times to dislodge bubbles and pour out the water. mix 500ccc of the water with the 11cc of Hc110, stir and add to the tank. place the tank in a tray filled with the 20C water. you need to agitate about 10sec per 60sec. this will hold the temp just fine for the 5 minutes or so of development. the temp is only critical for development, though you don't want your fixer to be too cold or it can damage the film.
    been a while since i have done this, so check on the dilutions and times.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    If you want more information than you need about B/W chemistry, you can always try the LF forum:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/

    Lars
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    another WONDERFUL site: digitaltruth.com

    Under the first heading there is: 'The Massive Dev Chart'
    where :
    Pick your Film....
    Pick Your developer....
    and there is the recipe

    THANK YOU Johnstovall
    will consider the D76 when i run out of Rodinal

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    DIGITAL ?





    I'm sorry Jono, but I couldn't resist ...
    All the best.
    Yeah Yeah.
    You're almost certainly right, but I might give it a go.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    I'm glad you started this thread Jono. I've been shooting C41 process only and want to try some silver. Don't know where to start.
    -Amin Sabet

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    If you want more information than you need about B/W chemistry, you can always try the LF forum:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/

    Lars
    And check out APUG (Analog Photography User Group).

    I try to avoid both as they start up dreams of an 8x10 and Platinum paper contact prints.

    If you feel the desire to go the next step and print your film, look at Unblinking Eye not your standard printing. Back before I started graduate school, I was moving to doing serigraphs with Kodaliths made from my negatives and 4 to 6 colors on my hand made gelatin and Potassium Dichromate screens.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    I had heard and read that rodinal and Delta 400 were a recipe for golf ball sized grain and therefore to avoid it. So, naturally I tried it .

    Attachment 14166




    I kind of like it, and also use DDx for a different, grain free look. Neopan 400 is good in both of them as well, and seems to be more forgiving in terms of exposure than Delta.

    The good thing about rodinal is that is has practically an infinite shelf life, so if you are only going to shoot film occasionally it may be just the ticket for you.

    Then again, I've only been shooting film for 6 months or so, so what do I know.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Jono,

    I guess the question is whether you are going to scan the silver negatives or print analog. I like the CN films for scanning on either a Nikon 4000/5000 or a Hasselblad/Imacon 343 scanner.

    Acros 100/ Pan F 50 are wonderful for low grain good contast captures.

    I use Beregger 200 and Plus X 125 medium grain...

    Tri X 400 or Neopan 1600 for classic grain and edge effects with Rodinal.

    Fuji Pro 800Z color scans wonderfully if you want to then desaturate for BW or sepia.

    Take a look at http://www.1point4photography.com/blog/ ... Matt uses BW film daily with great results and has a few pointers on developing and scanning.

    With your eye for light this will be a wonderful addition to your photography as long as you are willing to invest the time.

    Keep us posted ...


    Bob

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    Senior Member Don Hutton's Avatar
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    The latest rendition of Tmax400 (TMY-2) developed in Tmax developer shot at box speed gives amazing results, especially for scanning. If I had to choose just one film, that would be it. However, one of the best things about shooting silver films, is that you can shoot a bunch of different films and soup them up in different ways and they all have completely different looks... If there were only one answer, we'd all be shooting digital all the time!! (how's that for ascerbic dig)

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    HI Everyone
    Thanks for the detailed replies - it's nice to see that there is such a concurrence of opinion around here

    Bob - I was dithering about the idea of shooting colour negative and then converting, although it seems an odd thing to do. Ektar seems to be another option here. I'm certainly not planning any analog printing (oh no!).

    Ilford has sentimental attachments as it's what I used to shoot, although Delta didn't exist then (is it an old Agfa emulsion?).

    What I don't want to do is to confuse myself by trying lots of different films to start with (that way lies madness I think).

    Keep 'em coming!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Tri-X.

    You can expose it between 200 iso up to 1600 but of course you need to adjust the development times. Very flexible film.
    William
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    tri xtri xtri xtri x,is anything you want it to be.it has lots of those ellusive bits youre going to loose with your V750(big smile)

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    TRX (of course) - you will end up trying any number of developers over time so just buy whatever is handy in your neck of the woods. You can ask your local plumbing supply store about water mixers - designed to deliver water aat a temp you dial in - also dont over agitate - less is more and a drop of dishwashing liquid is a nice streak killer in your final wash.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Hi there
    a two hour dog walk has resolved everything in my mind.

    Tri-x is the favorite, so I thought, obvious, just do it. Then I thought, 'what am I going to photograph with tri-x'? . . . . . . . . . . . .
    People? where? there are no people here. Street? Fen Street?
    Low light? why?

    Then I thought - I'm buying a .58 M7 - this was properly rationalised - I want to try and get the full range out of my mid-wide and wide angle lenses. So, high speed black and white film is a must

    If I have any skill or signature (questionable) then it's in reflexive landscape and colour conversion.

    So it's bleedin' obvious, I should shoot low speed small grain colour film, and if that's simply a waste, and I should stick to digital, then I'll get rid of it and get back to only shooting digital.
    So it would seem that Portra 160 VC is the obvious answer.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Jono -- if Ilford is sentimental, i've been using HP5 in DDX for a very classic look. (sorry all you TriX fans, i tend to prefer the curve of Ilford). i'm now trying one roll of FP4 -- though i think it's too slow for what i shoot.... and there's a roll of Delta 3200 staring at me from the shelf, begging for a night outing with the Noctilux.

    i know you want to start with one film, but i think this is totally silly and lazy on your part. mix it up in the beginning and try different films. even if development is not perfect, you'll soon get an idea which suits you best.

    to try only one film and say if it isn't for you if it doesn't work out and you'll go back to digital is beneath you! bring out the goat and i'll put on my stilettos, grab my braided Luigi strap, and.... she says in her best dominatrix voice

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Just tried DDX this weekend w/ Arista Premium and LOVE IT....
    its half the time of Rodinal w/ Truly Lovely results
    Two from Yesterday M2 /50 Lux

    Delta 3200 CAM is LOVELY BTW....
    Last edited by helenhill; 29th March 2009 at 05:31.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post

    to try only one film and say if it isn't for you if it doesn't work out and you'll go back to digital is beneath you! bring out the goat and i'll put on my stilettos, grab my braided Luigi strap, and.... she says in her best dominatrix voice


    Well - you're right BUT - I stick to my point . . . what do I want with black and white film? Especially with fast black and white film, I simply don't live in an environment where it's going to be useful.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Just tried DDX this weekend w/ Arista Premium and LOVE IT....
    its half the time of Rodinal w/ Truly Lovely results
    Two from Yesterday M2 /50 Lux

    Delta 3200 CAM is LOVELY BTW....
    Hi Helen - that first shot especially is wonderful - Arista Premium is . . . . what? I don't think you get it in the UK.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Why not start with a couple of rolls of Ilford XP2 and let someone else worry about developing it. Any 1-hour lab should be able to develop this film. I've used it in the past and always liked the results. Just picked up two rolls yesterday to try it out again.

    -Thomas

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    jono:
    you would love the cloud effects on tri-x shot at iso 200 and with the yellow #15 (i think) filter

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by trisberg View Post
    Why not start with a couple of rolls of Ilford XP2 and let someone else worry about developing it. Any 1-hour lab should be able to develop this film. I've used it in the past and always liked the results. Just picked up two rolls yesterday to try it out again.

    -Thomas
    HI Thomas
    Last time I used film a couple of years ago I used a lot of XP2 (and whatever the Kodak C41 film is called). I wasn't enamoured really - there was a kind of general feeling of muddiness (probably me . . . or possibly our local lab).

    Thanks for the suggestion though.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    jono:
    you would love the cloud effects on tri-x shot at iso 200 and with the yellow #15 (i think) filter
    Hi John
    I'd thought of that, but that means investing in some kind of filter system (or buying a series of filters for my Leica lenses) - I'm not sure that it's even feasible with the WATE, which I use for most of my landscape stuff.

    I'm slowly arguing myself out of the whole idea!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post


    Well - you're right BUT - I stick to my point . . . what do I want with black and white film? Especially with fast black and white film, I simply don't live in an environment where it's going to be useful.

    I am not convinced of that...I prefer very slow film for 35. TriX in 120.

    However take a look at the following site...http://www.geebeephoto.com/

    Many Leica landscapes and churches done in BW. He has added other color and digital cameras but I think that his BW Leica work is wonderful.

    Bob

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    ... (although how we ever get anything to 20C in this house is a bit of a mystery!).

    What does that mean???

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    What does that mean???
    68 Degree F which I wish was my problem here in Texas...lots and lots of
    ice in the water bath...at least 7 months of the year.

    Bob

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    I remember reading about Weston saying something about the miracle of water coming out of the tap at 68F in Carmel. It is the same in many areas of the SF Bay Area, too.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    Hi Helen - that first shot especially is wonderful - Arista Premium is . . . . what? I don't think you get it in the UK.

    Not Helen, but to answer your question:

    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/arista_premium.php

    Mail order is possible.

    Arista started out as product made at an old Ilford factory that was closed and sold off. May still be, don't know. Early tests of Arista film showed no significant difference between it and similar ISO rated Ilford film. That was, umm, 15+ years ago.

    I used to buy Arista ISO 100 and 400 film in 100-ft rolls, bulk load into 35mm cans, labeled it ISO 3200 so that I could pass my film around the x-ray machines at airport security.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    I am not convinced of that...I prefer very slow film for 35. TriX in 120.

    However take a look at the following site...http://www.geebeephoto.com/

    Many Leica landscapes and churches done in BW. He has added other color and digital cameras but I think that his BW Leica work is wonderful.

    Bob
    Hi Bob
    Thanks for the link - interesting stuff, and lots of it good . . . but I don't like his BW Leica stuff . . . it takes all types I guess, and the landscape is familiar, some of his composition is excellent (if traditional) but IMHO the treatment is 'blah'. It just seems to be lacking in conviction.

    Oh Well!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    Not Helen, but to answer your question:

    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/arista_premium.php

    Mail order is possible.

    Arista started out as product made at an old Ilford factory that was closed and sold off. May still be, don't know. Early tests of Arista film showed no significant difference between it and similar ISO rated Ilford film. That was, umm, 15+ years ago.

    I used to buy Arista ISO 100 and 400 film in 100-ft rolls, bulk load into 35mm cans, labeled it ISO 3200 so that I could pass my film around the x-ray machines at airport security.
    Let's both thank Bob for the Centigrade clarification! it's cold here, especially after dark, and our house was built in 1690 . . .it's rather drafty!

    I don't suppose Arista is still built in the old Ilford factory (these days it's a supermarket!). Still, thanks for that clarification. Good tip with airport security, although I wonder if it'd still work? Right now at Stansted, if you had unboxed 35mm cans, I think they'd want to look inside!

    Just this guy you know

  35. #35
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    I don't suppose Arista is still built in the old Ilford factory (these days it's a supermarket!).

    Ahh, so that's where supermarket film comes from. Any chance another old Ilford factory was made into a drug store?

    For some (unknown) reason I am of the impression the Ilford factory was not in the UK, located elsewhere in Europe, and I can't tell you why I was thought that. Going back 20-years or so, was there an Ilford factory elsewhere in Europe that closed?

  36. #36
    nei1
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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Jono from what youre saying I think you should sell me youre M7 for next to nothing,buy yourself a beautiful Ebony 10x8 which will give a new experience that is worth the effort.

    You even have the right scanner for it.

    p.s. am joking about the M7.


    p.p.s. if you dont get on with the Ebony I do know of a cornishman who can accept donations.


    p.p.p.s. am NOT joking about the ebony.
    Last edited by nei1; 30th March 2009 at 03:41.

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    Filem or digital - can you tell?

    So I had one of my XP2 rolls developed and scanned. The scans from the camera store were OK but not hi-res so I decided to try to scan them myself on a dedicated film scanner. During this process I was again reminded why I was so happy when digital started being good enough to use. I have always found the spotting of dust on either prints or digital scans to be annoying.

    Anyway - I thought it would be interesting if you could easily spot the digital vs. the film picture from these two shots:

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    1st digital, 2nd film.

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    Yep, you're right. It was that easy huh?

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    Re: If I bought an M7, which film should I start with?

    APX 400 in Rodinal for life!!! (well until i run out)

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