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Thread: Analog Dreams are Over

  1. #51
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    Re: tit for tat

    I don't understand the issue with field of view?

    Shoot with set width boundries and crop the film shot to 1.33X factor. The lens draw remains the same whether on a crop frame digital M or a film M. Leave the tripod stationary, shoot M8, then swap and shoot the film M ... crop the film shot to match the digital crop. If you do this test, it should be a high resolution scan.
    (What would be even better is to print the film as a silver print and the M8 as a digital print.) IMO, the ISO should be the same. If 160 film is used that's what the M8 should be set to.

    As for making up one's mind before hand ... that's a two way street is it not?

  2. #52
    nei1
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    I beginto wonder at your real level of experience with analogue Jono,judging by your last comments,I think there may be more of a discussion if I was to bark at a different digital tree,one with analogue branches,so thanks for the entertainment,catch you later,Neil.

  3. #53
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    "I believe God exists"
    "I believe digital is flat"

    I don't understand; are you blaming God for your flat pixels, or are you asking God to fix your flat pixels? Good luck.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    film is designed to get the black blacks and white whites which we all love (I'm not being sarcastic), I think that this makes it hard to get the mid tone subtleties, especially when you then go on to scan the negative - the grain (which is also lovely) exacerbates this situation.
    Jono, I respectfully think you've got it backwards here. I think film makes it easier to distinguish midtone subtleties, which are present in both good digital (ie, A900) and film, but take more processing expertise to bring out with digital.

    I've yet to see any digital black and white with nice tonality that wasn't processed skillfully. This is evidenced by the fact that there isn't a digital camera around that gets great results with the in-camera black and white JPEG option (IMO). I have seen film black and white with nice tonality without any special care paid to developing and subsequent processing.
    -Amin Sabet

  5. #55
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    Re: tit for tat

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    As for making up one's mind before hand ... that's a two way street is it not?
    It would be if I were trying to say that digital was better - which I'm certainly not.

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  6. #56
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    I beginto wonder at your real level of experience with analogue Jono,judging by your last comments,I think there may be more of a discussion if I was to bark at a different digital tree,one with analogue branches,so thanks for the entertainment,catch you later,Neil.
    Perhaps, as Marc says - this is an argument which could be reversed?
    I've never claimed great experience (even though I shot analogue for 20 years). But then, I'm not criticising film either.

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  7. #57
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Jono, I respectfully think you've got it backwards here. I think film makes it easier to distinguish midtone subtleties, which are present in both good digital (ie, A900) and film, but take more processing expertise to bring out with digital.

    I've yet to see any digital black and white with nice tonality that wasn't processed skillfully. This is evidenced by the fact that there isn't a digital camera around that gets great results with the in-camera black and white JPEG option (IMO). I have seen film black and white with nice tonality without any special care paid to developing and subsequent processing.
    HI Amin
    I was really talking about scanned film - but I'll accept your correction.

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  8. #58
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    I don't understand; are you blaming God for your flat pixels, or are you asking God to fix your flat pixels? Good luck.

    Well, I suppose one could try?

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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Sorry guys but this thread is becoming circular. It is now hard to tell what were the original positions and the explanations seem to be getting further and further from the point. No one is really learning here any longer (if indeed ever) so why not go with what you love and believe in and recognize that there is no one size fits all. JMHO

    Woody

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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Sorry guys but this thread is becoming circular. It is now hard to tell what were the original positions and the explanations seem to be getting further and further from the point. No one is really learning here any longer (if indeed ever) so why not go with what you love and believe in and recognize that there is no one size fits all. JMHO

    Woody
    Bingo Woody!

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  11. #61
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Jono,
    I've been offline for a few days and just got back on. I'm sorry to see that film is not going to be in the cards for you. You have to do what works best for you, and you do digital so well.

  12. #62
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Jono,
    I've been offline for a few days and just got back on. I'm sorry to see that film is not going to be in the cards for you. You have to do what works best for you, and you do digital so well.
    Thanks Cindy
    It really is simply a matter of time. I've searched and searched to find good (and reasonably priced) develop and scan, but without avail.

    Maybe in a year or so the children will push me back from the business frontline a bit and I'll have more time.

    In the meantime - many thanks to Woody for putting a word of reason into the discussion. I'm sorry for my part in the pointlessness.

    Peace to all concerned

    Just this guy you know

  13. #63
    kipkeston
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    I tend to have a 66 to 75 percent keeper rate on film which makes scanning a bit tiring. At that rate I simply scan all images. I have little doubt shooting 35mm film is worth it. Its 120 that I question. Is there still a place for a 80mm f2.8 planar?

  14. #64
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by kipkeston View Post
    I tend to have a 66 to 75 percent keeper rate on film which makes scanning a bit tiring. At that rate I simply scan all images. I have little doubt shooting 35mm film is worth it. Its 120 that I question. Is there still a place for a 80mm f2.8 planar?
    There is room for the Zeiss 80/2.8 in my gear bag.

    Love 120 films. Especially Tri-X Pro.

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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    I enjoyed the discussion despite an unpleasant bit here and there. I'm sure we can all agree that both digital and film produce great results in the right hands!
    -Amin Sabet

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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Of course the planar 80mm has a place. It's my only lens for my hassy.

    Very little beats 120 film, well maybe 4x5"...

    Film Rules!!!

    Check gallery link below if you want to see photos.

    Cheers
    William
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  17. #67
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I enjoyed the discussion despite an unpleasant bit here and there. I'm sure we can all agree that both digital and film produce great results in the right hands!
    Hi Amin
    I certainly think so - and that it would be nice to have the time and resources to use both . .. one day perhaps

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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    My time is very limited too (2 very young kids)! But I recently purchased a Zeiss Ikon because as I learn more about photography (I'm most interested in B&W) I'm drawn primarily to film imagery. Plus, I like the rangefinder design and viewfinder. I figure I'll give it some time and see how it pans out. With my first few rolls I'll have a good local lab develop and scan them. At least that way I can save some time. And I don't plan on shooting a lot so the cost won't be prohibitive.

    To my eye film and digital are different and there is a place for both.

  19. #69
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    Re: Analog Dreams are Over

    Sorry, It didn't work out for you.

    I have struggled with the same thing in the M line for awhile now. I really like the M8, but am just not using it enough. It has really turned into a personal camera only and other needs are hitting.

    You know the drill, too many cameras and not enough time. Several things are going on the block this week.

    Another struggle on the film side is how to manage color or B&W. I finally gave up on color film when developed locally here in Phoenix, as the two "Pro" labs leave it scratched or looking like someone moonlighting from KFC (grease) processed it. I do love real B&W, so have taken to developing it myself and scanning on a Nikon.

    Just sold the M8 & am keeping the M7. That means that I'm gonna sell the 28 cron also, as I don't like that focal length on film even though it is a great lens. Personal work with the M7 is going to be 35/50/90, which are the only frame lines in mine.

    Digital still stays as that is what pays bills, but in the form of a Nikon and the Hasselblad.

    Hopefully someday, you will play film some more. Not getting into the film vs. digital debate, as they are different and both great. Funny thing is that I'm getting more enjoyment from shooting the M7 in film than from the M8. I just naturally slow down and really plan the shot.

    You may find that posting film to somewhere for development is feasible. I do a fast single pass scan at 8 bit of the entire roll to see what really deserves more time and then do a good scan on the keepers only. It really saves time.

    Best,

    Ray

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