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Thread: 120 Scanning

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    Smile 120 Scanning

    Want to start scanning at home. Seems the Nikon 9000 is the best, but not manufactured any more. New ones at ScanDig for approx. $14,000. Scan Dig feels the next best is the Braun FS 120. B&H price $1,999. For you that do home scanning I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Thank you and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Wait for a better deal on a Nikon Coolscan 9000 to come along ;-p I haven't followed the market lately but they used to be in the $2000 range so that is quite an appreciation.

    Hasselblad/Imacons would be a strong alternative to the Coolscan 9000. Different style of working, larger footprint.

    If you are new to scanning I strongly suggest starting with an Epson flatbed to learn with and see if you are disposed to the workflow. Even if you do get a better scanner the flatbed will be useful later for quickly proofing, scanning entire rolls in one swoop, etc. You want a model with 8x10 transparency capability, basically a light box built into the top lid. The differences between the latest Epson and one from 10 years ago are minor and mostly marketing lingo.

    If you really dig in you'll find that you could probably get into a nice drum scanner for less money than the Coolscan or Imacon but that becomes almost a lifestyle change....

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Thank you, Frankly

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    My solution is use http://www.agximaging.com for $12.50 scans on a Hasselblad X5

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    The Epson V750 is very good.

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    There is Coolscan 9000 for sale in the classifieds for $2300. That's a $11,700 savings!

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    I haven't listed mine yet, but I have a SuperCoolscan 9000 ED going up for sale. It's complete in the original box and I also have the ANR glass carrier for it. Excellent condition. PM me with a reasonable offer and we can negotiate... :-)

    If I were intent on making prints larger than 11x17 or 13x19, I wouldn't sell it. But I haven't made a print bigger than 11x17" in several years and for that a copy camera setup is more convenient for my 120*film, 6x6cm format needs.

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    I know that price I got from ScanDig is way out of line. There has been a new one on ebay for maybe two years for $4500 obo.
    Nikon tells me they do not do anything, with any scanner anymore.

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    I am extremely satisfied with my Plustek OpticFilm 120 which is indeed a very good and capable scanner.
    In my opinion ScanDig are not very reliable reviewers of scanners, I have got far better performance from
    my scanner than the sample ScanDig reviewed. What I can deduce from technical specifications and ScanDig
    reviews of Braun and Reflecta (PacificImage) I would never buy them. I have serious concerns that someone
    buying Braun or Reflecta gets inferior performance.

    My 5 cents.
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Although I have scanned colour negative and slide film, for the most part I scan Ilford FP4 and HP5 for printing on an Epson 3880. So my experience is really about B&W scanning from 120 negs.

    I have a couple of Polaroid Sprintscan 120s which I bought in the mid 1990s - now obsolete but still working with Firewire (now via firewire/thunderbolt cable) and Mac OSX 10.6.8 which I keep on bootable external disk - using Silverfast Studio - can't remember off hand which version. They and the Nikon Coolscans were, at the time, considered to be the best of the rest of the domestic scanners - i.e. excluding the hugely expensive Hasselblad scanners.

    They still work but over the years I have had scans done on high end Hasselblad scanners, a couple of hugely expensive professional drum scans and a lot from an Epson v850 flat bed.

    There is no doubt that the expensive drum scans were better than all of the rest. The Hasselblad X1 and X5 came second (and very little difference between the two). That is when viewed at 100% on a screen. But here I run the risk of heresy. As regards the quality of prints from well exposed negatives, there is really very little difference in the prints between the Polaroid, Hasselblad and Epson scans when viewed from a reasonable distance (I print A3+ and A2). If you want to try and emulate Ansel Adams with the maximum range from Zone 0 to Zone 10 with maximum shadow detail then probably you are going to want to go as high end as you can afford. (But then again will your digital printer really produce the goods?) But for what I do - slightly contrasty with as deep blacks as I can get, moderate shadow detail and smooth highlights - there really isn't a dramatic difference.

    $14k for new Nikon Coolscan seems absurd (when new the Polaroids were c2,000). Are you going to be able to get it serviced or repaired? Almost certainly not. For that money you could pick up new Flextight X1 with change or a 2nd Hand X5. Yes they are still Firewire but work with Macs on the firewire/thunderbolt.

    However I would suggest you look at the Epson v800 - 1/4 of the price of the Braun (of which I know nothing). Then look at what your ultimate goal is and decide if you want to spend a lot more money to get to where you want to go.
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Also good to consider using a digital camera to rephotograph the film.

    This can be done crudely with a simple light box or even a tablet computer or phone (there are lightbox emulation applications). Just steady your macro lens and bang away.

    And people with slide copying or copy stand photography equipment can do it a bit better and more consistently... Also Nikon has introduced a ~ $100 stage for 35mm film and slides, the new D850 can automatically invert color negatives.

    At the high end some people build dedicated stitching rigs that allow multiple frames to be shot along the X and Y axis, you can also stack exposures like HDR, and combine everything together on your computer. This is the new ultimate, surpassing even the best drum scans in theory (but rarely in practice!)

    There are many internet threads and many potential products in development related to this. No company is going to manufacture any new scanner but they may make something in this area.

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Personally, I would never have space to maintain a convenient repro setup or have time to focus/calibrate it. I want an old school scanner that I can fire up with the press of a button. Of course I have to wait for the scanner to scan, and that is not fast, but worth the wait. My Plustek OpticFilm 120 scans a strip of 6x8 (2 frames) or 645 (4 frames) in about 15-20 minutes (with a Mac Mini 2009 edition).

    Then I have an old Epson V700 that I started with and now this is dedicated to LF sheet film only. However, I can recommend the Epsons as starter solutions. They take several strips (V700 and V750) that makes scanning speedy - let the machine do the job and enjoy some coffee. The results aren't tack sharp as a film scanner, but calibrating the height is pretty easy and the resulting scans quite usable.

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    I'm a little amazed that no one has even enquired or made an offer on my Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000. All it takes is to send me a PM. Oh well, it'll probably go to Ebay and sell for more than it's really worth. I don't mind.

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    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by godfrey View Post
    i'm a little amazed that no one has even enquired or made an offer on my nikon supercoolscan 9000. All it takes is to send me a pm. Oh well, it'll probably go to ebay and sell for more than it's really worth. I don't mind.

    G
    $14k!

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    The OP may profit from reading this, admittedly rather long, review of scanners:
    http://luminous-landscape.com/wp-con...nner-Final.pdf
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
    The OP may profit from reading this, admittedly rather long, review of scanners:
    http://luminous-landscape.com/wp-con...nner-Final.pdf
    That's a really great article. I bet the resale value of a Minolta 5400 scanner is now over $14k!

    FWIW, a skillfully made drum scan from a last generation Aztec drum scanner will be a significant and easily observable improvement from anything presented above, like the difference between the cheap scanners and the Imacon taken another step higher.

    Aztek Imaging: Scanners, Professional Digital Imaging Systems, Scanners and Software Solutions

    Lenny Eiger still does scanning: Contact

    I know it's expensive and unnecessary for modest prints but for example if you were doing a real gallery exhibit and wanted large prints you'd be spending much more on the printing and framing, the cost of good scans would be a fraction. And probably money well spent since they would print better.

    That's the killer though, to do a really nice show like I'd like it would be nothing to drop $20k on the production with no assurance of sales... it's a real chicken or egg, bad business decision!

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly View Post
    FWIW, a skillfully made drum scan from a last generation Aztec drum scanner will be a significant and easily observable improvement from anything presented above, like the difference between the cheap scanners and the Imacon taken another step higher.
    I agree but the "skilfully made" is underestimated IMHO and not for the home worker who would seldom need that quality for intended output. I find it the case that often workers will sweat and strive for that very last bit of on-screen 100% scanning output then send it to Instagram. I have always sent out the work if needed for something beyond my modest requirements, good enough is usually good enough. For declaration of interest I use a V850 as I have 4x5 output, occasionally, and have a Plustek 8100 I used for 35mm monochrome work which acquits itself remarkably well for the modest cost. I say used as the V850 is much speedier and will suffice for Instagram and Flickr.
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
    I agree but the "skilfully made" is underestimated IMHO and not for the home worker who would seldom need that quality for intended output. I find it the case that often workers will sweat and strive for that very last bit of on-screen 100% scanning output then send it to Instagram. I have always sent out the work if needed for something beyond my modest requirements, good enough is usually good enough. For declaration of interest I use a V850 as I have 4x5 output, occasionally, and have a Plustek 8100 I used for 35mm monochrome work which acquits itself remarkably well for the modest cost. I say used as the V850 is much speedier and will suffice for Instagram and Flickr.
    Yep my only social media is 800-pixel wide Instagram. I do have a website that allows for larger full screen images and those look great but even then a D700 level camera would be more than sufficient.

    (For that matter, when I shot 8x10 the Epson flatbed worked very nicely since practically the entire bed was one piece of film. You could scan a ridiculously huge file and downsample it, much as we do with high rez DSLRs > 3600-pixel jpgs for web display.)
    Last edited by Frankly; 21st January 2018 at 12:31.
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
    I agree but the "skilfully made" is underestimated IMHO and not for the home worker who would seldom need that quality for intended output. I find it the case that often workers will sweat and strive for that very last bit of on-screen 100% scanning output then send it to Instagram. I have always sent out the work if needed for something beyond my modest requirements, good enough is usually good enough. For declaration of interest I use a V850 as I have 4x5 output, occasionally, and have a Plustek 8100 I used for 35mm monochrome work which acquits itself remarkably well for the modest cost. I say used as the V850 is much speedier and will suffice for Instagram and Flickr.
    The V800/850 is unbeatable as a budget scanner and offers one huge advantage: It can do a batch scan of several images unattended, which is very useful to evaluate if there are photos worthy of a more expensive and/or time consuming quality scan. In addition, it's possible to tweak the Epson scanners in ways that will make the scans good enough for all but the mosy critical uses.

    Here's a review by someone who has done a really deep dive into the potential of a V850:

    http://www.stockholmviews.com/epson_v850/index.html
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The V800/850 is unbeatable as a budget scanner and offers one huge advantage: It can do a batch scan of several images unattended, [/url]
    Well, the 800/850 may have a bit better film holders, but one has to consider that the used Epson V700/V750 takes two strips of MF film whereas the Epson V800/850 only takes one. Epson have also made the desicion to decrease the slot number in 35mm and LF 4x5 film holders as well. Therefore I would consider the V700/750 the 'fastest flatbed' solution to unattended scanning of a lot of frames at once. Of course the 800/850 film holders can be of a better design but there is the option of buying Betterscanning filmholders with ANR glass which I have. http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/vseries.html

    I have measured the focal point of my Epson V700 scanner using a slanted object (made with 3M Magic Tape) and I have even designed my custom 9x12 LF film holders with 3mm thick cardboard and matte frame glass. Indeed the Epson is a magic device, in that it can can use the whole bed for transparent film scanning (8x10 film).
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    By the way I have tested my scanners with a SilverFast USAF 1951 target slide and my conclusion is that Epson V700 is optimised for Filesize vs. Resolution with an scanning resolution of 3200ppi, the Plustek Opticfilm 7400 at 3600ppi and the Plustek OpticFilm 120 at 4000ppi or 5300ppi depending on ultimate quality requirements. That's about how to get the most out of these devices. The V700 had about measured resolution of 2300-2600ppi and the OF7400 about 3400-3500ppi and OF120 about 4000-4300ppi.
    Last edited by MartinN; 23rd January 2018 at 23:44.
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    When scanning and peeping at 100% detail and sharpness there are indeed differences. But practically few print images really that big. And considering the price difference between a flatbed scan and a high end scan, there is in my opinion not so much practical difference justifying the price.

    The other important thing about scanning is that the softwares really suck. There is about only two bad solutions to choose from. Silverfast or VueScan. Silverfast has a neat user interface but the implementation of image editing is really, really bad. VueScan has an user interface like from some 1990:s software and editing is at least very frustrating and can really only adjust brightness.

    I want some new thought out software like Lightroom !!!
    Last edited by MartinN; 24th January 2018 at 00:16.
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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinN View Post
    Well, the 800/850 may have a bit better film holders, but one has to consider that the used Epson V700/V750 takes two strips of MF film whereas the Epson V800/850 only takes one. Epson have also made the desicion to decrease the slot number in 35mm and LF 4x5 film holders as well. Therefore I would consider the V700/750 the 'fastest flatbed' solution to unattended scanning of a lot of frames at once. Of course the 800/850 film holders can be of a better design but there is the option of buying Betterscanning filmholders with ANR glass which I have. http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/vseries.html

    I have measured the focal point of my Epson V700 scanner using a slanted object (made with 3M Magic Tape) and I have even designed my custom 9x12 LF film holders with 3mm thick cardboard and matte frame glass. Indeed the Epson is a magic device, in that it can can use the whole bed for transparent film scanning (8x10 film).
    I forgot about the V700/750, and you are right of course. Unfortunately, they are difficult to find used, and new ones aren't available anymore, not that I know of anyway.

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    Re: 120 Scanning

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I forgot about the V700/750, and you are right of course. Unfortunately, they are difficult to find used, and new ones aren't available anymore, not that I know of anyway.
    I have seen some Finnish users giving up and selling their Epson V700/750 for supposed leaving only their digital cameras for daily usage.

    If you are shopping for a new Epson I would not hesitate to buy the V800/V850 because scanners can fail and some have reported the glass going 'cloudy' after som plastic degassing inside the scanner and thus requiring disassembly and manual cleaning. Of course you can then also skip the Epson holders altogether and go for the 'two strip' betterscanning holder that is not flimsy.

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