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MF observations

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
What one thing i have noticed immediately with MF is the lack of DOF coming from crop sensors and the bokeh produced from it is quite outstanding. You no longer need 1.4 lenses although that would be fun but what i am finding and this brings back memories from shooting Hassy and film years ago is that nice falloff you get in MF. Something about it just is completely different than anything else in smaller formats . Yes you can great bokeh and falloff but what i think I am seeing more is the more gradual tone. Than again i could be having a flash back, who knows . But i know one thing even a cheap lens like the Mamiya 150 3.5 does amazingly well here. i shot this at 3.5 handheld at 1/80. Now as I play more with this system i am really getting it with regards to handling. Folks this is just a weird size DMR for me with a much bigger file and viewfinder. It honestly is no different and feel very confident I can shoot almost anything with it. I guess it has been so long since i shot medium format i forgot how easily it is to handle. Okay my lenses are pretty light and small but still it just fits me really nice. One thing to that credit is i rigged up a hand strap to it and i am a hand strap freak. Another strange thing is my ability to hand hold this well. i don't know what it is but I am pretty deadly to 1/30 of a second , ow the M8 i do better but i was expecting i really need to get on a tripod all the time. Not my favorite thing in the world but i can still nail stuff at slow speeds. My only biggest issue is review the ZD is a 4 to 5 second wait on review , slow let's face it but here is the thing if you forget about that and just shoot than you never notice it and it is pretty darn fast.

Now the ergonomics are a little odd for me and I will get the Mamiya AFD III when it comes out since it looks like they smoothed the front side down a little. I have short fingers so the reach is sometime tough but anyway I am just rambling here on m feelings but i am really digging this . The files are awesome and may not always need that punch but it's there for me. Some of the things I am seeing and i have been in digital since the beginning is the Macro detail and Micro detail plus the DR in these images i have not seen before in smaller formats. Don't get me wrong i loved the DMR and the M8 and there pretty close but this is another step up and frankly just :cussing: thrilled at what I am seeing so far. i also notice some vignetting that seems pretty natural and maybe because i am wide open here but even stopped down i am seeing more 3d looking. maybe I'm nuts but there is something different here i really like. Just my Friday afternoon observations.

Oh and here is Drake my bokeh test dog. LOL
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I guess here is my point even a crappy subject matter like this looks really good. It's the look
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
Welcome to the REALLY slippery slope Guy <BIG GRIN> I've been wondering for a couple years now when you would finally make this move, and see just what you have been missing all this time.....
 

BJNY

Member
All the more reason to hope larger sensors arrive sooner than later (48x48 or 56x56 as has been hinted at).
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well it is down right ugly. Who said i always shoot pretty pictures. LOL

But seriously that would even look worse

Chuck better catch me my friend i am sliding quick down the slope.
 

irakly

New member
Well it is down right ugly. Who said i always shoot pretty pictures. LOL

But seriously that would even look worse

Chuck better catch me my friend i am sliding quick down the slope.
hehe, i see you buying rolleiflex in six months :ROTFL:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
What one thing i have noticed immediately with MF is the lack of DOF coming from crop sensors and the bokeh produced from it is quite outstanding. You no longer need 1.4 lenses although that would be fun but what i am finding and this brings back memories from shooting Hassy and film years ago is that nice falloff you get in MF. Something about it just is completely different than anything else in smaller formats . Yes you can great bokeh and falloff but what i think I am seeing more is the more gradual tone. Than again i could be having a flash back, who knows . But i know one thing even a cheap lens like the Mamiya 150 3.5 does amazingly well here. i shot this at 3.5 handheld at 1/80. Now as I play more with this system i am really getting it with regards to handling. Folks this is just a weird size DMR for me with a much bigger file and viewfinder. It honestly is no different and feel very confident I can shoot almost anything with it. I guess it has been so long since i shot medium format i forgot how easily it is to handle. Okay my lenses are pretty light and small but still it just fits me really nice. One thing to that credit is i rigged up a hand strap to it and i am a hand strap freak. Another strange thing is my ability to hand hold this well. i don't know what it is but I am pretty deadly to 1/30 of a second , ow the M8 i do better but i was expecting i really need to get on a tripod all the time. Not my favorite thing in the world but i can still nail stuff at slow speeds. My only biggest issue is review the ZD is a 4 to 5 second wait on review , slow let's face it but here is the thing if you forget about that and just shoot than you never notice it and it is pretty darn fast.

Now the ergonomics are a little odd for me and I will get the Mamiya AFD III when it comes out since it looks like they smoothed the front side down a little. I have short fingers so the reach is sometime tough but anyway I am just rambling here on m feelings but i am really digging this . The files are awesome and may not always need that punch but it's there for me. Some of the things I am seeing and i have been in digital since the beginning is the Macro detail and Micro detail plus the DR in these images i have not seen before in smaller formats. Don't get me wrong i loved the DMR and the M8 and there pretty close but this is another step up and frankly just :cussing: thrilled at what I am seeing so far. i also notice some vignetting that seems pretty natural and maybe because i am wide open here but even stopped down i am seeing more 3d looking. maybe I'm nuts but there is something different here i really like. Just my Friday afternoon observations.

Oh and here is Drake my bokeh test dog. LOL
So, Guy ... I slid my chair back ... leapt to my feet spontaniously ... and burst into the "I told you so" dance :clap:

"I told ya so, I told ya so ... I told ya ... told ya ... told ya so."

Other than the M8 and a few key lenses, and maybe a DSLR with fav optics for a few applications and lower light work, AND as you get your technique down, you will increasingly turn to your MFD camera as the solution. Superior IQ is the addiction, especially for a lot of the stuff you shoot.

Tripods, mirror up, cable release are nice to really squeeze everything out of a file, but a hinderence to be sure. I favor a Monopod when needed ... but, like you, am a great fan of hand straps for more spontanious shooting.

My Prediction ;) : this set up will take on a greater role in your business ... you will move to a second digital back like an Aptus 75 or maybe a Phase One P45 with-in a year or so ... but keep the Mamiya ZD as your back-up. Other stuff will began gathering dust and you'll sell it to feed the addiction.

The slope isn't just slippery, you have already slipped, are on your ass doing 100 MPH down the slope, Mamiya in hand snapping as you go ... :LOL:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
All the more reason to hope larger sensors arrive sooner than later (48x48 or 56x56 as has been hinted at).
Gentlemen, start your wallets.

Veroooom, veroooooom, sputter, sputter, gasp, choke ...

Interestingly, not one pro I've discussed this with is clamoring for a larger, even more expensive sensor. They are far more interested in improving what exists to get better ROI on the money they've already invested. Better lenses, tilt/shift options, even more improvements in AF, better software and firmware, improved signal to noise performance, less expensive Multi-Shot abilities, more sophisticated Moiré suppression, and so on.

I'd love a 48X48 or 56X56 back for my V cameras or RZ, and I'm sure the Hy6 folks would be targets ... but the question would be price to actual need ratio ... $40K+ a pop would induce me to love the one I'm with even more.
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Interestingly, not one pro I've discussed this with is clamoring for a larger, even more expensive sensor.
I have seen one or two in the forums, asking for a large square sensor, but they are a very small minority, and it seems they have no grasp of the reality of how much it would cost to fabricate sensors that large in such small numbers.

All I really miss from the back is high ISO performance. The rest is just 'nice to have', like higher frame rate etc.
 

BJNY

Member
I doubt 36x48 sensors costs the digital back manufacturers the same as it did 2-3 years ago. Digital backs with larger physical sensors should occupy the current $33K MSRP/MAP price slot, with existing backs sliding down in price accordingly (happening already).
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Here's a thread discussing larger sensors:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17745

Guy will love post #70
Funny every report made it is a Leaf 22mpx sensor in the ZD. Not sure i buy the grading system myself. They only thing I can imagine is if a sensor or chip coming off the factory floor has hot pixels or something like that , they may sell it to a non photographic source. Even so and it is true this ZD is pretty darn good today. I would expect myself to upgrade to the new AFD-III for sure. I can't in my heart buy Contax bodies. I know but it is a dead system is the bottom line and no improvements will be made and that bugs me and any gear head likes techy crap coming on a normal basis. Mamiya , Hassy and Sinar are really in my mind the only players to move forward in technology with camera's. Honestly don't know if Leaf is making bodies or not have not looked into that. The backs are different with several players but entry point is the cheapest with Mamiya on the bodies and lenses. i would expect from there i will pick a back to match the Mamiya and hopefully in San Juan , Lance is bringing a bunch of backs and gear to demo and i can get a better feel for other options.

You just don't buy this stuff you have to try it first and if move up i am going to try everything including the Sinars and Hassy stuff. But i am so happy just to be in the door . I waited actually too long to jump.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
So, Guy ... I slid my chair back ... leapt to my feet spontaniously ... and burst into the "I told you so" dance :clap:

"I told ya so, I told ya so ... I told ya ... told ya ... told ya so."

Other than the M8 and a few key lenses, and maybe a DSLR with fav optics for a few applications and lower light work, AND as you get your technique down, you will increasingly turn to your MFD camera as the solution. Superior IQ is the addiction, especially for a lot of the stuff you shoot.

Tripods, mirror up, cable release are nice to really squeeze everything out of a file, but a hinderence to be sure. I favor a Monopod when needed ... but, like you, am a great fan of hand straps for more spontanious shooting.

My Prediction ;) : this set up will take on a greater role in your business ... you will move to a second digital back like an Aptus 75 or maybe a Phase One P45 with-in a year or so ... but keep the Mamiya ZD as your back-up. Other stuff will began gathering dust and you'll sell it to feed the addiction.

The slope isn't just slippery, you have already slipped, are on your ass doing 100 MPH down the slope, Mamiya in hand snapping as you go ... :LOL:
Ah shit just been waiting for you to pounce on me. Okay i owe you a steak dinner. LOL

Marc seriously though I have been reading your posts for years and I have the upmost respect for you and you know that. So your influence in this area has not gone unnoticed . I just had to revamp my thoughts on what each system brings to me. The M8's were the only system and i love them still but they just can't do it all and needed a DSLR. So I got the D300 a fine capable machine and when I went into Camera West with hard cold cash to purchase a D3 I really got to thinking what am i really buying here. Not much to be honest ,maybe a slight gain over the M8 and a better file over the D300 but not a leap and bounds thing ( image quality only is my goal). Don't get me wrong the D3 is a amazing machine and still like to get one no doubt but the ZD presented itself with a much bigger jump up. I pondered it for 2 days after trying it maybe one . And the funny thing is i was going to sneak out at a lunch break with Jack and everyone heard we were going again and the whole gang went too. It was funny and everyone got a kick out of it and they bought more gear too. It's a drug man. LOL

Anyway thanks my friend and love to see you and your wife sneak off to San Juan and join us. This will be a great shooting op.


BTW i was just thinking last night about the monopod would be a excellent tool for this.
 

LJL

New member
Guy,
If you go the monopod route, one thing you might consider is to mount an RRS plate to the bottom of you Mamiya, and get a RRS lever release mount to screw to the top of the monopod. Though most recommend the thumbwheel over the lever release for monopods, I have been using big heavy glass with the lever release without any issues, and it is so nice to be able to quickly pull the rig off the monopod. If you are going to walk around with the camera on the monopod, leaning it over your shoulder for carry, then I would suggest the thumbwheel mount instead to allow an even tighter grip. It is slower to attach and remove, but would not have any chance of slip. (I had RRS adjust my lever releases on my monopods to be be tighter when they clamp down, but as is, they could be a bit loose with heavy gear. My long lens and body weigh about 16 pounds and my rig does not slip when carried.)

Sorry for the sidetrack, but shooting on a monopod is not all that hard, and can make a big difference when you get down to slower shutter speeds. It all felt uncomfortable for me at first, but it is so much easier to work with than a tripod for anything other than fixed shooting. Take a look at the tilt arrangement RRS has on their site also. That may be you ticket for being close to working like a ballhead on tripod, but so much faster to move around for shooting.

LJ
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Ahead of the game finally. I have a RRS plate on the Mamiya right now and a BH-25 head sitting on the Monopod. I may just get a receiving plate though because of the weight , but I did try the BH-25 on the tripod since I am waiting for my BH-55 to come and it actully held the Mamiya pretty well but you need to really tighten it down.

My biggest issue is the RRS plate on the Mamiya and the hand strap . There is no slot for the hand strap so i have it wedged on a pin to hold it , makes me nervous though and I may see if I can find someone to cut a slot in the plate for me. Or I have a D3 camera plate that has the slot but the curved sides need to be cut off. Looks like I need a machinist to get the strap correct. If anyone has idea's on this they would be most welcome. i should check with Kirk on this
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Stuart I actually have a Gitzo myself the G15 which I really like. But you should post it , someone here will buy it.

I may need the clamp though. Lever or screw if you sold it seperate
 

LJL

New member
Guy,
Using a ball head on a monopod can work, but it is a real PITA since you have too many things to fiddle with and getting the ball tight enough is always an issue. The monopod permits you to swivel and tilt any way you like as is, so a more secure connector of camera to stick is all you really need.

I do not know what the handstrap attachment points require, so cannot really help there, but RRS may even have an option for you there also. I would give them a call.

To work more as a walkabout, I even use a monopod pouch hanging from my gear belt. That allows me to shorten the monopod, tuck the end into the pouch, and be able to get a pretty steady platform almost anywhere. Not quite as stable as if the end were on the ground, but it is not bad if you are walking and shooting, like on the street or trail or something. It does not get in anybody's way. With my big glass, I use a neck strap tether to the lens, so that it does not get away from me if I accidently let go of things. That arrangement even allows me to let the rig lean forward so that I can view things on the camera back using both hands, or even to show others when chimping ;-)

LJ
 
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