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Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 06:35
Morning everyone well today is the day my IQ 160 is on the Fed-X truck out for delivery. Just FYI no animals where hurt in the process of me getting one and no animals where pushed off the road either. Just had to be said. LOL

Obviously I am one of the first of few that are being delivered this week to dealers and thought while I sit here and WAIT for the truck I would touch on this sensor since it is the same sensor as my current P40+ which is safely in the hands of my dealer already and have a P65+ loaner on hand. So lets talk about this sensor a little and my thought process as I have been through many backs including the ZD, P25+, P30+, P40+ and now moving up to a Full Frame sensor. Folks this is MY first owned FF sensor and I am pretty excited about getting away from the crop and main reason I moved up from the P40+ was to FF and obviously to get the new tech.
But this also is the Dalsa sensor which i have to admit I was pretty enamored by the Kodaks of my previous backs. That thinking certainly changed for me as since owning the P40+ which I still highly recommend to people is the P40 and P65 backs and right now they are a steal used and several people I have recommended both of these backs are very happy.

What I have found was the Dalsa sensors first offered more DR than the Kodaks of my previous backs and it also offers more importantly a much smoother neutral color tone. What I mean by this is the colors are very neutral without high color saturation and just a very smooth color palette across the board and much better at skin tones. Gone are the magenta skin tones or very warm looking skin tones. The Dalsa just produces a more pleasant look in my mind and of course you can make many adjustments to get anything you want but out of the can it is very nice.

Now i know the hot topic is the IQ 180 with its new sensor and every P65 owner on the planet that I know which are many made that upgrade path which i think was and still is a good path to take. Hell your almost forced to with the tech and new sensor which has even more DR and maybe a slightly smoother still color palette across the board.

Now i could have made this call on getting the IQ 180 as many also have done but my decision to go with the IQ 160 was more based on speed of back. So shooting speed is faster and what my GUESS is and this is just a educated guess from a lot of experience with these backs that the previews , focus mask will be slightly faster than the IQ 180. If I am wrong than i am wrong simple as that but I have a feeling I may have chose well and will get some marginal speed increase in the area's that for me a working Pro that has very varied assignments i am more concerned with speed than i am with the 20 extra mpx. I do hope I am right as i could have been shooting the 180 since day one along with Jack but i played it out and lets see if my thinking is correct and if not i am still very happy as for the last 18 months I have been shooting this sensor and swear by it and its quality of file. I really do like this sensor and have recommended the P40+ and P65 + to many folks and I still do. Nothing changed folks these dinosaurs still hunt and they hunt well.

This decision did not come by lightly as many know these buy ins are expensive but I initial took the cheaper route and slowly build from the ZD to P25+ than the P30+ and finally arrived at the P40+ . Trust me these where easy upgrades on the wallet but taking from the P40+ onto Full Frame and also with the new tech i had to bite the bullet and really invest. I know a tough pill for many to swallow but in the end I think getting to at least FF initial is the way to go now as the upgrades in the future will be less of a bite.
But i also know buying a used P40 at 13k is a freaking steal given that you get this very good sensor with it. Trust me on this there is not much out there going to smoke this 40mpx sensor it is just that simple. I know 16 thousand images later and I would buy it again if I had too. Yes i am excited to move to FF and the new tech no question about it but it should be known I leave the P40+ with a heavy heart for it. I loved that back.

So anyway lets move forward now as we will see what the IQ 160 will be like. I expect no difference in image quality over the P65 but given the much faster on - board processors i am expecting it to be faster in operation over the P65+. If am right I am freaking hero in my own mind and if not I got a cool new back. I can't lose here. LOL

Updates will be forthcoming as little Betsy arrives. That name will certainly change to OMG . LOL

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 06:43
I don't like dropping names often but has to be said thanks to my dealer Capture Integration for pulling the rabbit out of a hat for me.

tashley
24th June 2011, 07:41
Enjoy Guy! You sure chose the right dealer - CI really seem to go the extra mile and then some. I discovered today that my dealer somehow thought I was waiting on a V fit 180 even though he has previously sold me two Phase Mammy fit backs and bodies. Hmmm.

cmb_
24th June 2011, 08:28
Have another espresso Guy and enjoy the wait! I'll be looking to see what you post.

multigary
24th June 2011, 08:30
Guy, congratulations, and good luck with your new mistress!
I've been going through a decision process similar to yours, where I think I
have settled on crossgrading from P40+ to IQ40, but I'm still torn between wishing I could go IQ65 (but can't spend the $ now), or should I give up the new tech and go p65+ to at least get full frame. I don't really need the 65 mp, but it wouldn't hurt, and I really get frustrated by the p40+ crop lines. Don't mind the focal length adjustment factor, but I really like to frame up to the edge of the viewfinder, and I haven't figured out if that's possible (I know there was a thread on this, but it never really got resolved whether it's possible except by blacking out the outside with a sharpie, which doesn't feel good to me). But the new tech is very appealing and I think will give me more in focus keepers, - i'd hate to give that up.
So my question is, if you didn't spring for the IQ 65, would you have gone
IQ 40, or p65+. I know you were going back and forth with those two options at one time, but I guess you had enough old camera bags to trade in
for the new back!
Again, good luck with your IQ65!

kdphotography
24th June 2011, 08:45
Happy day my friend! Does this mean the GetDPI bake sale is over? :D

multigary
24th June 2011, 08:46
Woops, maybe I should learn the names of the backs better before buying one.
It's IQ 140 & IQ 160! I guess if my IQ was 160 I wouldn't have made that mistake!

Graham Mitchell
24th June 2011, 08:58
I think you made the right choice - IQ160 looks like the pick of the Phase backs to me.

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:04
Here is one deciding factor a used P65+ is exactly the same cost as a IQ 140 with no waiting. Honestly as much as i loved the P40+ i grew very tired of the crop lines inside the finder. For a lot of folks it may not be a issue but with people and events going on it was getting to me and I warn folks of this all the time. It is the only thing that bugged me but like anything else I worked through it. Its a really tough call right in this area and the tech is great

mvirtue
24th June 2011, 09:07
Good luck! Hope you have nothing else planned for today :)

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:12
OMG now I will be hated by the IQ 180 folks and YES folks I GUESSED correctly. Shot to preview INSTANT. To Focus mask less than 3 seconds the 180 is a good 5 seconds. Zoom to 100 percent full render 2 to 3 seconds. Shooting speed full res. as fast as continuous will go. Obviously if you shoot 10 frames it will keep up with the shooting but the buffer will take a bit to clear to write everything.

Looks like I have 1.19 firmware dated May 26th. So right now I will assume my Extreme Pro cards are not supported which for both 180 and 160 could speed things up more

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:16
Wow focus mask might even be 2 seconds. Its quick . Preview to see is take eye away and look and it is there. LOVE IT

tashley
24th June 2011, 09:19
Torturer!

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:19
Back to body fit is nice and snug.

Jack
24th June 2011, 09:24
I'll time my IQ180, but preview and focus mask sped up some after the last firmware update. I would suspect the 180 to only be around 30% slower, simply because it has 30% many more pixels render...

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:26
Sensor Plus everything is INSTANT preview, focus mask, highlight. The only thing that takes any time is zoom to 100 percent takes a second or two to render. Very good and very quick shooting in Sensor Plus. Nice thing is you need speed this mode will do it.

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:29
I'll time my IQ180, but preview and focus mask sped up some after the last firmware update. I would suspect the 180 to only be around 30% slower, simply because it has 30% many more pixels render...

I'm hoping Jack with the pending firmware update for the Class 6 cards it will get even faster. This is pretty freaking cool

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 09:40
Thanks folks . Will post images later when i actually get out there . Only 108 today

jlm
24th June 2011, 10:34
Guy: your enthusiasm is catching, as always.

good for you, I'm sure you will wring it out

Don Libby
24th June 2011, 12:08
Congratulation Guy! You ere the topic of conversation at lunch between Ken & myself...

All good stuff

Don

RayM
24th June 2011, 12:13
Guy, Congrats on the investment! You've made a fine decision and I completely trust you'll be really happy with it.

And, as I was reading about how you were peering through your window with your nose pressed against the glass waiting for the happy truck to deliver the back, I also imagined the music from Jaws playing in the background. A nice touch I think.

Enjoy, Guy! Ray

gazwas
24th June 2011, 13:11
Can't wait to see the first shots and hear your impressions over the loaner P65+ you've been using. :thumbs:

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 13:27
I will head out in the morning like 5 am when its under 90 degrees here.

darr
24th June 2011, 14:01
I cannot wait to see your pics Guy!

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 14:33
Damn pressure is on. Just was going to shoot a couple test images.LOL

Jack
24th June 2011, 14:39
Performance anxiety eh Bud?

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Guy Mancuso
24th June 2011, 14:43
Performance anxiety eh Bud?

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Geez.

I'm being good i almost wrote something completely different. LOL

gazwas
24th June 2011, 14:43
Performance anxiety eh Bud?

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Yeh, no pressure................... but we're all waiting! :watch:

Jack
24th June 2011, 15:48
And WATCHING!!! :watch:


:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::

cmb_
24th June 2011, 15:52
Just take a shot where you etched a new valley in the pavement from pacing up-and-down the street waiting for the truck! :)

GrahamWelland
24th June 2011, 17:45
Damn pressure is on. Just was going to shoot a couple test images.LOL

There's no pressure Guy, really. Jack only shot his Passing Storm in Yosemite on his first trip out but don't let that be a pressure on you or anything. It's not like we're expecting great things from you as well. Really. No, no pressure at all. :ROTFL: :D:D

jlm
25th June 2011, 02:41
just shoot one of those airplane cockpits you are famous for

Joe Colson
25th June 2011, 04:26
OK, as I write this, it's 6:18am in Arizona and you should be out taking test shots. As my kids used to say, "Are we there yet?, Are we there yet?, Are we there yet?"

Jack
25th June 2011, 04:31
I just got an iPhone message -- he's there and having way too much fun with his new toy, so y'all are going to have to wait a bit longer. Actually, I've gotten like 6 messages that all say, "I love this back!" :ROTFL:

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 06:32
Well I was out there than just before i was ready to shoot my sunrise the back went into no DB which has happened before on other backs as well and did the usually battery tricks and such but to no avail. Pulled back, pulled batteries in both body and back several times and still ran into a wall. Figured my contacts were just not making the connection between back and body. Now Jack mentioned maybe 2 minutes to leave batteries out. Maybe not a bad idea but I never had to do that before on other backs and admit was a little quick this morning. I was pretty close to home and decided instead of doing this in the field lets just go home get the ROR out and clean it down with the connections and that did work. My body battery was slightly low also so i switched that out and got it working again. So i went back out and shot some more. If i was on a gig i would certainly would have done more field work to get it going but figure what the heck close to home lets get it fixed right. Avoid dropping anything. LOL

So Jack and I came up with a few suggestions . One is get some ROR which i use on all sorts of cleaning and works great on connections and such. here is a link http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/64495-REG/ROR_RO212D_Residual_Oil_Remover.html

Than maybe keep these in each of your bags as Jack suggested for any field work that may arise and these work on any system with electronic connections http://www.amazon.com/-Wipe-Cleaning-Pad-Optics-24per/dp/B0001M6K2Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1309016387&sr=1-1

Nice thing is you can travel with these.


So anyway i did notice maybe something slightly different than the 180 with Focus mask and need to play with this more as well. Normally i found 43 to be a pretty good number for the 180 Jack and Bob I believe like 40. What i found was maybe a little to general a pattern on the 160 so I played a bit to like 57 and that pinpointed a little better . Now I am not exactly sure of this but it does work by contrast . The 180 has slightly more DR and the 160 slightly less so given the DR difference there maybe a slight focus mask difference in numbers. I know its just a number so it really makes no difference in the real world. But be interesting to see these two backs side by side on same scene and see if there really is any. I'm guessing a little here since there is just no way to prove this until they are side by side.

So maybe something we want to look at next time I am with Jack and can test it.


Now onto the functions. Holy smokes the UI is just something else. In the field even in bright AZ sun it just is about the most gorgeous interface I have ever seen. No different than the 180 in this regard but it is just so easy to confirm everything and the Focus mask is truly 2 seconds. Its quick and the preview is right there and spot on. Like the 180 the only thing i would consider and hate to even use this word slow is the zoom to 100 percent which takes a couple seconds. Will we see improvements here with firmware , my guess we will.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 06:38
And no i did NOT get a Yosemite Passing Storm Image today. Just some fundamental shots to see how things are working. I need a road trip.

Jack
25th June 2011, 06:49
I need a road trip.

I think this should be my next signature line! LOLOLOLOL!

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 06:59
Not a bad thought indeed bud.

Joe Colson
25th June 2011, 07:17
So Jack and I came up with a few suggestions . One is get some ROR which i use on all sorts of cleaning and works great on connections and such. here is a link http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/64495-REG/ROR_RO212D_Residual_Oil_Remover.html

Than maybe keep these in each of your bags as Jack suggested for any field work that may arise and these work on any system with electronic connections http://www.amazon.com/-Wipe-Cleaning-Pad-Optics-24per/dp/B0001M6K2Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1309016387&sr=1-1

Excellent suggestions. I swear by the eWipes. They're just the thing for cleaning MFD sensors. I'll have to get some ROR and keep it in my 3-1-1 bag for airline travel. :thumbs:

Enough procrastination. Show us some flics! :watch:

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 07:36
Working on it now Joe. LOL

Ben Rubinstein
25th June 2011, 09:50
There's no pressure Guy, really. Jack only shot his Passing Storm in Yosemite on his first trip out but don't let that be a pressure on you or anything. It's not like we're expecting great things from you as well. Really. No, no pressure at all. :ROTFL: :D:D

hahahahahahahaha!

cmb_
25th June 2011, 10:48
No word from Guy for about 3 hrs now. I guess he is out shopping for Manolo Blahnik's as part of his trade-up deal! :)

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:19
Got lucky only cost me a nice lunch so far. LoL

But payback I'm sure is not over. Told her the REAL price. I'm doomed

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:20
Be posting soon here.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:47
Okay these are some tests shots from a little town in Cave Creek. I use this place a lot for testing. Here all images shot at ISO 50 set for daylight and I did not WB anything. Just want to see what is coming off the sensor for now and my sharpening is very low also. I have a borrowed 28mm D lens and I'm in the middle of testing it against my 35MM D lens . With the Full Frame sensor now things have changed for me on my focal lengths . Some things I am happy with like my 55 getting wider but my 300 got a little shorter. So some trade offs but I'm still in flux wider than 55mm and trying to make some decisions there along with tech cam thrown in the mix of that decision as well. Been noodling this one since i ordered the 160 so nothing new here and this is my second time running the 28/35 tests. Its almost like a coin flip in some ways.

Anyway Identical spot 28 and 35 at F11. Even exactly the same focus mask that I lined up perfectly with exactly the same pinpoints.

28mm
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000080.jpg
35mm
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000082.jpg

Now i know the 28mm very corners are mush . Well known fact with FF but I view this lens as a 30mm, so you may need to crop to that point. My mental debate is these two lenses . I own the 35mm and had the 28mm . I may reverse this not sure yet though.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:50
28mm D has slightly more contrast but that really is meaningless given all the controls we have in C1 but the DR is very nice with barely any clipping in the shadows actually almost none.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:51
Yes dirty sensor . Needs to be cleaned. Why is that brand spanking new and dust bunnies already. LOL

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:54
28mm again at F11

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000093.jpg


Nice bokeh even at F11 with the 55mm. i am focused squarely on the bottom of that seat

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000102.jpg

55mm again at F11 focused right on the front buckboard and wall of logs

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000104.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 11:57
Just FYI the detail is killer. I'll get some crops up as well. But nice tonal range and great DR here. Again very very little clipping. Early light here about 6:30 and I did not WB so maybe slightly warm which i like actually. My 55mm lens is just amazing

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:00
Switch gears here a little the 110mm LS lens wide open here at 3.5. BTW my focus mask from camera is matching my focal points I focused on pretty much dead on.

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000114.jpg

I kind of like this one shot with the 110mm at F5

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000134.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:01
110 again at 5.6

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000125_2.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:03
My 55mm again at F11
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000099.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:07
Just for kicks 100 percent crop. Now there is barely any capture sharpening here and a reminder native size on a IQ 160 is 29.95 x 22.44 at 300 DPI. Folks thats native for my printer to the letter. Epson 7900

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/untitled-1_683126.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:21
I will process a few more later but pretty much all I got today. Here is a lonely cheap 210 lens at 5.6. This is a f4 lens that for the money hard to beat

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000140.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:27
Wagon wheel crop that I posted before 100 percent view 110mm lens at 5.6

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/untitled-1_672256.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 12:30
Okay put your jaw back in place and go order one. LOL

gazwas
25th June 2011, 13:28
So has Phase managed to squeeze any more out of the chip in the IQ160 over the P65+ or are they just the same.

GrahamWelland
25th June 2011, 13:55
Guy,

Other than coverage, are you seeing any differences in the rendering of the IQ160 vs the P40+ or P65+ given that it's essentially the same sensor tech?
(oops - I see that Gareth & I must be on the same wavelength ...)

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 14:10
Like to say the DR looks better but I doubt it. I could check with the P65 which is still here. I'll do a side by side in the morning. Really hot here right now only fit for snakes 109 I think.

gazwas
25th June 2011, 14:37
I'll do a side by side in the morning.

Thanks Guy, that would be really interesting.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 18:28
A 35mm D shot at F11 with sharpening on this one and I added lens corrections for this lens in C1 and also corner sharpness. With a little work you can make this lens dance.

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000087.jpg

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 18:33
Probably keep my 35D and not switch to the 28mm but the right to change my mind ( I like to make sure when it comes to my glass) . I would also like to run another test. But that is not really part of this thread.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 18:47
Checking Focus mask here with a 110 at 5.6 very far left focus. I added a sharpening routine to this . Warning watch your eyes

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000127.jpg

and a 100 percent crop.

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/untitled-1_841935.jpg

Okay I'm happy

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 18:51
BTW there is a downside to the IQ 160. I need more CF cards. LOL

About 212 images for a 16gb card.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 18:54
Also I made a few suggestions on some issues earlier another is get a small CF card load Firmware 1.19 on it and stick it in your CF card wallet. Just in case in the field and there has been a report of reloading the firmware . Lets maybe play it safe here and have it on hand . Same for 180 shooters. Just some thoughts to think about. Good night all. I'm ordering another 16gb card now actually

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 18:59
here please use our B&H link above but you get a free 4gb card with this deal

SanDisk 16GB Extreme Pro CompactFlash Card
Includes Free: SanDisk 4GB Ultra CompactFlash ($19.95 Value)
B&H #SAEPCF16GB • MFR #SDCFXP-016G-A91 Free Shipping (USA)
View Accessories
Qty:
Price: $130.30

Item Total:$130.30

yatlee
25th June 2011, 20:09
Congrad Guy!

I have quite a few Sandisk extreme (not pro). Do you think it makes a big difference in speed?

I'm going to try Lexar USB 3.0 reader. It seems like a huge speed gain on file transfer from the cards.

Guy Mancuso
25th June 2011, 20:24
The UDMA class 6 I believe what they are is not supported yet in this firmware. Next firmware release we are told it will be. My best guess it will be faster for processors to write too. So I'm betting it will help with speeding things up. From talking to a tech friend at Phase he believes it will help in some areas. So right now it's a educated guess it will. Nice thing is even on computer it's faster to upload, so there are computer benefits.

ptomsu
25th June 2011, 20:45
Guy,

first congratulations on your new IQ160 back! It is in the right hands!

The samples you posted are really stunning, color, sharpness, details (as one can tell from posted photos) etc.

I would be interested in what the price difference was (would have been) compared to the IQ180?

Thanks

Peter

Jack
25th June 2011, 21:06
35 looks good!

dchew
26th June 2011, 01:51
Hey Guy,
So glad you are happy with the decisions you made on all this. Since April at PODAS you've been openly sharing your thoughts, evaluations and decisions in various threads here. It's been quite fun to follow, and I for one have learned a lot along the way.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Dave

P.S. Now where is that tech camera? :-)

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 02:11
Hey Guy,
So glad you are happy with the decisions you made on all this. Since April at PODAS you've been openly sharing your thoughts, evaluations and decisions in various threads here. It's been quite fun to follow, and I for one have learned a lot along the way.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Dave

P.S. Now where is that tech camera? :-)

Thanks those comments made my day.

Tech cam . Soon I hope.

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 02:32
BTW I am testing a Schneider 28 on Thursday with a Cambo tech cam but I'm looking for a cambo/Mamiya plate if anyone would like to lend to me for the day. I'm shooting with Robb Williamson but he is setup for Contax. I'll pay shipping round trip

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 02:36
Like to see how the IQ 160 handles the 28 since it really is a no go on the 180 with movements

gazwas
26th June 2011, 05:50
Like to see how the IQ 160 handles the 28 since it really is a no go on the 180 with movements

Now that I'm looking forward to!

Thinking of one of these on my P65+ for the jobs I need wider than the 43xl. The few times I need wider the cost of the 32HR just scares me off. Just worry the 28XL won't play well with my ML2.

Can't wait for your results.

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 06:17
Went and shot the P65 Vs the IQ 160 and i am seeing no difference between the two backs in regards to IQ but in regards to usability its like night and day. LOL

The tech is cool folks but your paying for it.

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 06:20
Post some images later nothing special just some grab shots. Had to get home and walk the dogs or should i say they walked me. I have to walk them no later than about 6:30 am since it hits about 85 or so at that point. 5 am this morning 77 but noon we will be at 108 . Welcome to the world of huge temp swings here.

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 06:22
Another tip of the day . Getting to like this. LOL

I put all my lens caps from Schneider and Phase away and buy these cheap Promaster or Bower lens caps since they are easier to work with and more important if lost who cares.

Need to reload a few myself

Bower BOPLC77
CS77 77mm Pro Snap-On Lens Cap
1 $5.79 $5.79

Bower BOPLC72
CS72 72mm Pro Snap-On Lens Cap
1 $5.99 $5.99

Bower BOPLC58
CS58 58mm Pro Snap-On Lens Cap

jlm
26th June 2011, 06:30
battery usage?

gazwas
26th June 2011, 06:49
Went and shot the P65 Vs the IQ 160 and i am seeing no difference between the two backs in regards to IQ but in regards to usability its like night and day. LOL

The tech is cool folks but your paying for it.

In regards to IQ thats good to know as the P65+ produces beatutiful files. I'm just waiting on the next few FW updates to see if any of this new tech is worth upgrading for. The UI looks very impressive but that alone makes it an unecessary and costly upgrade.

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 07:18
battery usage?

So far very good

Jack
26th June 2011, 09:43
So far very good

I think John was looking for a few more specifics LOLOL! I have not clocked it specifically, but my IQ180 seems to have about the same life as my P65+ did, but I have been chimping a TON, especially using focus mask and 100% review. So maybe going out on a limb here, but in reality it may be better than the P backs...

Bob
26th June 2011, 10:00
battery usage?
Yes,
but I love the way it recharges when shooting tethered.
-bob

jlm
26th June 2011, 10:23
i've been shooting my cambo with a blad H back, so you have to provide an external battery and I've been using the bigwave, but it could use more amp-hours. Just today I purchased the quantum Turbo 3 that has the ability to not only run your flash, but also a digital camera; even both at the same time Capture integration provided me an adapter from the back's firewire 800 to a mini plug, now i just need the quantum sd16 cable. I'm wondering if the turbo 3 could also power the IQ? it has power to burn

padams
26th June 2011, 14:07
Guy - have you noticed any improvements over the P65+ at higher ISOs like 400 or 800?

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 14:13
I am running that test this week on noise. Both high res and Sensor plus. I have a gig in NY coming up where I shoot about 4k in sensor plus mode so want to know where my limits are.

Guy Mancuso
26th June 2011, 15:11
35MM D lens again at F14 this time . Looking for diffraction. All corrections made including keystone

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000167.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/untitled-1_950452.jpg

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 05:31
So let me get back to focus mask as I think there is a difference between the numbers of the 180 and the 160. Jack and I where chatting yesterday and it just is making more sense that instead of using 40 or 43 on the 180 i found the 53 on the 160 was about the same from memory as 43 on the 180.

If we sat here and did the math the 160 is 30 percent less pixels and also bigger pixels well 30 percent added to 40 is what 52. That plus the slight DR increase on the 160 is starting to all add up. Lets not forget diffraction as well since the 180 will diffract sooner than the 160 because of the smaller pixel pitch

Let me give you a example why too. This image here at 43 on the 160 the front bush was also showing in focus which clearly i was focused on the wall. Now understand yes I am dealing with a wide angle and a lot of DOF but my focus pattern was really taking about 30 percent of the frame at this 43 setting which in my mind is just to much and not pinpointing enough. As you see the two samples of what the focus mask is looking like and actually it is slightly more on the LCD than C1 but 53 seems like a better setting on the 160. So if you are getting a 160 than I think the 53 is a good starting point but obviously play around to what you like. But just thought I would throw this out there as there is a difference between the two backs in this area.

Obviously when Jack and I are together we will do a side by side of the same scene and see how this plays out

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 05:35
I will be moving this thread after I do the noise test into a more permanent home in the Digital Camera reviews area as more of a reference for folks.

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 05:51
I am still amazed how in AZ one of the brightest places on the planet I can still come up with images with no clipping on the shadow side. There is not a true black in this image and this is out of the can WB only.

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000144.jpg

David Duffin
27th June 2011, 06:54
Guy,

Your exposition here is invaluable. It's inspiring that you'll go out in 100+ weather to get these shots ...

You have obviously scored big with your IQ160 decision. Given the opportunity, would you trade straight across for a 180?

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 07:07
Great question. I think my answer would believe it or not be no but than again try me. LOL

Okay two reasons speed of back plus other speed functions and honestly the 180 would just about fry my laptop although i could deal with it. Where I would have trouble is the high res. files with being in a hurry to batch many but reality is that is very rare . When I need to batch many files i am usually in Sensor Plus mode anyway. So I can get away with it.

The IQ 180 is a sweetheart but lets be honest here . It does have some issues with some wide angles and tech cams and also your diffraction limit shortened. These are physics we can't get around but I still think its a great back and yes i would not mind having one for sure. I wish the 7k ( list) I saved I had in my hand right now to get a tech cam and a lens but somehow I don't have that cash in hand. LOL

Right now to get a tech cam i need a gift from God but i'm trying. LOL

David Duffin
27th June 2011, 08:32
Guy, how noticeable is the increased colour and tonal quality of shots in taken in Sensor Plus mode on your IQ 160?

Don Libby
27th June 2011, 08:52
Right now to get a tech cam i need a gift from God but i'm trying. LOL

Guy - let me know if you want to meet somewhere to try this on my WRS; we can use the 35, 72 and 120 to kick the tires.

Don

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 10:29
Guy, how noticeable is the increased colour and tonal quality of shots in taken in Sensor Plus mode on your IQ 160?

Full test coming this week on sensor plus. I use this function a lot so I really need to test it out fully. Hopefully Wednesday I will have it up.

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:08
NOISE TEST FULL RESOLUTION ISO 50-800

Well i got this shot. I usually use my bathroom here for several reasons. First it is a controlled environment with TUNGSTEN lighting plus i added a modeling lamp from a Profoto D1. So why tungsten you ask?

Well tungsten is the worst color temp for noise and most of the situations that one shoots in is under tungsten lighting and high ISO's . I make it a habit actually a requirement to test under the worst crap you can run into. I want to know the worst case scenario so I know how to make smart adjustments in the field to handle things. Like to call this ugly testing and its really how one should test is the worst case otherwise you run into a mess out there you will have no idea how to handle it.

So lets get into the details. This first batch is FULL resolution shots . Now all I did here was shoot at F11 in AV mode and focused on the color checker card. Not worried about sharpness here but you will see how detail gets lost as the ISO goes up. Also everything you see here is at 100 percent which obviously is putting things under a huge microscope .

Also I have a very small amount of sharpening . Plus and here is a BIGGY to pay attention too the noise level is set at default here Luminance 15 and color 30. I DID NOT correct for noise YET YET YET. So you need to pay attention because I will correct some high ISO's for noise and in this series 400 and 800.

What you have here folks is out of the can. Let me try to get this all up before posting. I will let you know when I'm done about 15 minutes. Thanks

Also the crops are so small i made two of each set of ISO's. Pay special attention to under the color checker card the shadow area and also in the one with the corner of the mirror watch how it gets course the higher ISO. This are is not in focus per say so watch the ISO 50 shot first and compare the rest. At some point you may want to save the HIGH ISO shots to compare to the Corrected Noise High ISO shots.

Here we go

Full Image just for scale ISO 50

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000184_1.jpg


Okay ISO 50 crops

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/50a.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/50b.jpg


ISO 100 Crops

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/100a.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/100b.jpg

ISO 200 crops

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/200a.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/200b.jpg


ISO 400 crops. This is still very good

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/400a.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/400b.jpg

ISO 800 Crops

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/800a.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/800b.jpg


Okay remember the noise setting are at default here so Luminance 15 and Color 30 and Single Pixel 1

As i take them back into C1 i will bump the levels up on ISO 400 and 800 to
Luminance 25 and color 55 and single pixel to 70. That will be in the next post

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:19
Okay with the new changes to noise levels Luminance 25 and Color 55 plus single pixel at 70 things get better for ISO 400 and 800. Now I maybe slightly off in the numbers for best effects as I am going by my old P40+ numbers but as you will see some nice changes. So don't count 400 and 800out by any stretch

here we go.

ISO 400

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/400c.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/400d.jpg


ISO 800

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/800c.jpg

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/800d.jpg

Now lets keep perspective here these are huge crops on a very large file and in print you may see very little noise effects.



Sensor Plus is next but later tonight.

You can comment now. Thanks for waiting. I suggest you download the default and corrected ones and look at them side by side.

gogopix
27th June 2011, 15:30
Very interesting...
Thx Guy.

Now, maybe a testement to my 68 YO eyes, but the 100 looks better (more DR?) than the 50. MAYBE less noise, but no noise I can really see in either.

I have seen some rumbling about "PULL" ISOs not always a better file. I am also surprised how the noise does increase by 200. Thought it might have been a bit better....

Regards
Victor

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:32
Full Image ISO 800 with corrections. And yes I literally tossed everything aside. I will pay later for that one trust me

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000188.jpg

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:34
Very interesting...
Thx Guy.

Now, maybe a testement to my 68 YO eyes, but the 100 looks better (more DR?) than the 50. MAYBE less noise, but no noise I can really see in either.

I have seen some rumbling about "PULL" ISOs not always a better file. I am also surprised how the noise does increase by 200. Thought it might have been a bit better....

Regards
Victor

Also Victor we need to remember we are really under a microscope here . Maybe too much to be honest as we may see very little when it comes to printing unless your going truck size. Also this is the worst you will come across as well as daylight would be much better on noise. Tungsten is just **** light. Hate to be so blunt

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:39
Victor also I have not corrected anything for 200 here as well. Certainly that can be done in your processing

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:43
Lets see here on DR

ISO 50 Full

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/iso_50_full.jpg

ISO 100

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/iso_100_full.jpg

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:44
I think 50 wins. But its pretty close. I think you would see more in fat light compared to this.

Bill Caulfeild-Browne
27th June 2011, 15:46
Guy, thanks so much for all this info and testing. Very useful..

Now if only my own IQ would turn up.....

Bill

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:48
I need to go cleanup. LOL

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 15:49
Guy, thanks so much for all this info and testing. Very useful..

Now if only my own IQ would turn up.....

Bill

Thanks Bill. Fingers crossed its real soon for you.

BlasR
27th June 2011, 16:02
Guy do you use all those spray for your hair?:poke:

Shots looking good tough so.

BlasR

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 16:21
Lol my daughter is a hair stylist. Have more product around here than I can count. Afraid to light a match. Lol

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 17:56
Lets go Sensor Plus same subject and these are 15mpx shots with Sensor Plus.
Again these are at default for noise for 200 and 400 than i did 800,1600,320 both at default and corrected for noise. These are again 100 percent crops

here we go

ISO 200 crop default

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/200.jpg

ISO 400 crop default

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/400_430010.jpg


ISO 800 default noise followed by corrected noise

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/800_844074.jpg

ISO 800 corrected for noise

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/800corrected_271805.jpg


ISO 1600 default than followed with correction

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/1600_605349.jpg

ISO 1600 corrected for noise. Killer good here folks

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/1600corrected_827494.jpg


ISO 3200 default than corrected

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/3200_855686.jpg

ISO 3200 correct for noise

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/3200_corrected_229399.jpg

Guy Mancuso
27th June 2011, 18:00
Great I blew up the server

gogopix
27th June 2011, 18:44
Victor also I have not corrected anything for 200 here as well. Certainly that can be done in your processing

yup
processed files do seem to clean up, without much loss of detail

wentbackward
27th June 2011, 20:17
Guy, how long does it take to fire up the camera and back before taking a shot?

Guy Mancuso
28th June 2011, 00:17
About three/ four seconds. Needs to read your card so size may matter. I use 16gb Sandisk extreme pros

Guy Mancuso
28th June 2011, 00:57
Have to say the high ISO 1600 is killer good and maybe better than what I have seen out of the P65+. If anything like normal Phase does improve this stuff in C1 without our knowledge sometimes, which is a good thing. I'm thrilled and can't wait to shoot in NY about 5K images with it on Sensor Plus. I will post those images

Guy Mancuso
28th June 2011, 01:06
here is a full ISO 1600 sensor plus shot with my corrections . Now lets compare it to ISO 50 full res.


ISO 1600 corrected

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/cf000192.jpg

ISO 50 Full resolution image

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/1/iso_50_full.jpg

Guy Mancuso
28th June 2011, 01:07
Pretty dang good folks. Obviously the 1600 will be noisier and some loss of detail but at these sizes pretty hard to tell. I have to give Phase credit here on Sensor Plus. They got this nailed

Guy Mancuso
28th June 2011, 01:11
I think I am done testing the IQ 160 now. Need to get to work today. LOL

I hope this helps as it helps me understand what I have in my hands so i know what to expect and learn the workarounds to get the best results. Also helps me teach this on workshops.

Hate to say it but this also proves as I learned a long time ago with sensor plus it really can help eliminate the need for a DSLR in a lot of cases.

Jack
28th June 2011, 03:24
Guy, how long does it take to fire up the camera and back before taking a shot?


About three/ four seconds. Needs to read your card so size may matter. I use 16gb Sandisk extreme pros

Note that you can turn card checking OFF in the back and then initial start up is much faster.

Guy Mancuso
28th June 2011, 03:45
Great point Jack that would speed things up for sure.

gogopix
28th June 2011, 09:55
Dear Guy

really nice rundown on the noise issue with the IQ160. Seems like, even with the same sensor as the P65+ Phase has lowered the noise, or upped the processing. Overall, real encouraging.

NOWW, Jack, and chance you and Guy can get together to see what the 160 vs 180 looks like? Phase implies the noise isn't any different, maybe better even with the smaller photosite size. Would really help to see the difference. (not that I would switch from the 180; looks like a really nice back to use for YEARS to come....
if it ever comes:ROTFL:
Victor

vjbelle
28th June 2011, 11:33
Victor,

I can't comment on the 160 but I have the 180 and from the looks of what I've seen from Guy the backs seem to be VERY similar. I would think that noise wise they are identical. I approach noise a little differently than Guy as I prefer to use other noise correction software instead of P1..... I have found iso 200 to be very usable for landscape with any noise corrected with Noise Ninja. Iso 400 is still very usable but, for me, that is the limit. This is much better than the P45 world I came from but nowhere near the world of a 5DII. Regardless the files from my 180 are remarkably smooth with lots of fine detail. The LCD is a dream for focus checking (I use a MF Loupe). I find the LS lenses a MUST as reliance on the Focal Plane shutter causes smearing at lower shutter speeds. You will be very happy with your 180. Well worth the wait!

Victor

wentbackward
28th June 2011, 21:53
I was shooting a childrens dance performance a few weeks back, no flash allowed and ended up at ISO 3200 plus taking lots of rapid fire shots, leaning heavily on Nikons AF. I think I have maybe 3-4 events per year which nessecitate a DSLR but that's about it, these backs could handle everything else. (work with me here, I'm trying hard to justify buying one, please send me the support number for lost souls, mobiles do work in the inferno right?)

tashley
28th June 2011, 22:11
Victor,
I find the LS lenses a MUST as reliance on the Focal Plane shutter causes smearing at lower shutter speeds. You will be very happy with your 180. Well worth the wait!

Victor

Could you expand on that Victor? Do you mean that this is the case even with a tripod? My glass is mostly not LS... so I am curious to know the situation...

Best
Tim

vjbelle
29th June 2011, 03:46
Tim,

The smearing I mentioned is really shutter slap and I'm surprised that it isn't discussed more often. I switched from an H2 to the DF body and wondered, to myself, if the focal plane shutter in the DF caused camera shake. On the two brand new bodies I had it did! It will manifest itself more on the longer lenses but it made my 150mm totally unusable under 1/200th. That made the lens unusable to me and it went back to my dealer. My two LS lenses (80mm, 110mm) are tack sharp at any speed. I tested the shutter slap further by using the 110 with only the focal plane shutter and got the same results as the 150mm - unusable under 1/200th because of shake. This is on a GT3541 with only the upper two legs extended using an Arca Swiss plate on a Z1 Ball Head - mirror up and 10 second delay. I won't shoot anything except LS lenses or a tech camera.

Victor

Guy Mancuso
29th June 2011, 04:01
I tested this awhile back with a 300mm 1/30 and 1/40 are shutter speeds to avoid as I did get vibrations. The rest seemed okay though

Guy Mancuso
29th June 2011, 04:04
I can do that test again if someone really wants me too. Have 300 here

BTW I'm done and satisfied with tests I have done so far but will run something specific if I see a need.

Jack
29th June 2011, 04:05
Unfortunately, with the DF body you still get shutter slap with the LS lenses at 1/20th to 1/40th. The sequence with mirror up and self-timer is, 1) press shutter; 2) Mirror goes up, LS shutter closes, and self-timer countdown starts; 3) at exposure, FP curtain opens, LS fires, FP curtain closes, LS opens for viewing.

It is my gut, though I've seen no spec, that the FP shutter operates at about 1/30th when the LS shutter is enabled -- the LS shutter of course firing completely while the FP shutter is open. Would have been awesome if they could have gotten the FP shutter to open with mirror up too -- would have solved the DF's "motion" issue in the 1/20th to 1/40th range...

Tim Ernst
29th June 2011, 04:19
We did indeed discuss this here when the LS lenses first appeared and what Jack says is correct - the darn FP shutter still fires and messes things up, even with mirror up. I'm hoping they will fix this when the new Phase body appears - that would sell a lot of Schneider glass for them. I did see written somewhere about using the LS lenses in "LS - only" mode - was I just dreaming, or exactly what does that mean? Seems like it was part of Phase's literature somewhere.

vjbelle
29th June 2011, 04:29
[QUOTE=Jack Flesher;329603]Unfortunately, with the DF body you still get shutter slap with the LS lenses at 1/20th to 1/40th. The sequence with mirror up and self-timer is, 1) press shutter; 2) Mirror goes up, LS shutter closes, and self-timer countdown starts; 3) at exposure, FP curtain opens, LS fires, FP curtain closes, LS opens for viewing.

Yes Jack, you are correct in the sequence but I have not noticed any camera movement at those shutter speeds on the 110 so I'm a happy camper at that focal length. But, the 150mm smeared even at 1/160th making it unusable. Hopefully the new body will eliminate this - if it even has a focal plane shutter!

Victor

jlm
29th June 2011, 04:44
gotta love that little shutter "snick" of the compurs

Jack
29th June 2011, 04:49
gotta love that little shutter "snick" of the compurs

Absolutely! However, no 'tweener speeds ;)

Guy Mancuso
29th June 2011, 15:48
BTW I did get a Cambo/Mamiya plate from CI to use so i can test the 28mm schneider on the 160. It will be done early next week.

Tim Ernst
29th June 2011, 16:07
Victor - I'm wondering why the 110 LS seems to lack the shutter slap smearing if the FP shutter still slaps when the exposure is made?

Guy Mancuso
19th July 2011, 02:26
Just a small update I have been shooting sensor plus all week about 3k in images so far and everything is just about instant, focus mask, highlight and preview itself. I can get off about 5 frames if i really wanted too with a model walking down a runway. Comfortable 3 and it is working very fast. I really have less and less need for a 35mm but still have one as backup and for some PR stuff. Shooting mostly ISO 1600 and 800 on tungsten and noise looks very good. This thing is rocking my world and not sure what others think but AF works a charm on continuous focus. With a 300mm no less

goesbang
20th July 2011, 01:15
OMG now I will be hated by the IQ 180 folks and YES folks I GUESSED correctly. Shot to preview INSTANT. To Focus mask less than 3 seconds the 180 is a good 5 seconds. Zoom to 100 percent full render 2 to 3 seconds. Shooting speed full res. as fast as continuous will go. Obviously if you shoot 10 frames it will keep up with the shooting but the buffer will take a bit to clear to write everything.

Looks like I have 1.19 firmware dated May 26th. So right now I will assume my Extreme Pro cards are not supported which for both 180 and 160 could speed things up more

I am one of those 'IQ18 folks' you mention and no, I don't hate you. On the contrary, I'm writing to say I think your reasoning is very sound. You are running a photography business and ROI is a VERY important consideration as is the suitability of the gear you choose. If you buy the fanciest toys without adequately weighting ROI and performance in your decision making process, you probably won't remain in business for long.
Grahams remarks earlier are spot-on. {BTW, he's an expectant father today too - I hear speak of his new Aptus 12 being in Dubai customs as I write this}
Enjoy, Guy. You made a wise decision.
Cheers,

vjbelle
20th July 2011, 02:53
Victor - I'm wondering why the 110 LS seems to lack the shutter slap smearing if the FP shutter still slaps when the exposure is made?

The sequence is timed differently. The curtain opens and then the leaf shutter opens and closes and finally the curtain closes. So there is only the chance of vibration on the opening of the curtain which for me, so far, has been non existent.

Victor

Tim Ernst
20th July 2011, 04:55
Thanks Victor. I was thinking about that conversation just last night The FC curtain opening certainly does cause a vibration, but it looks like that vibration has died down by the time the LS opens and the picture is taken. The only real issue I see now is that this extra opening of the FC curtain causes a delay in the photo being taken - not much of an issue for me but shutter lag is one thing we've all been trying to make shorter ever since digital was born. It would just be so much easier if the FC curtain opened when the mirror was locked up manually, then no vibrations at all and nearly instant picture with no lag - seems so simple!