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raist3d
16th December 2012, 15:03
So looks like the rumor mill is running with X200 with an X-trans sensor- a successor for the X100.

As someone who has been a bit enthralled with the Sony RX1, I am very very interested if an X200 model like this comes along. To be a complete match to the RX1 it would have to sport an F1.4 lens... not sure if that would increase the size too much or how hard it would be to make.

But I am interested mainly for one reason: Leaf Shutter. Leaf shutter= quiet. I can only hope Fuji ups their processor so the X200 processes/acts faster than their current X-E1/X-pro 1 line.

- Raist

stephengilbert
16th December 2012, 15:25
Is this the July rumor?

raist3d
18th December 2012, 13:15
I guess july rumor updated this month

Brian Mosley
18th December 2012, 23:18
It's about time. I hope Fuji spare no expense in going after the RX-1... an f1.4 lens would be awesome.

Thanks for the rumour - the X100 is my favourite camera to use, and could really use a fast focusing, high speed lens.

Brian

Vivek
19th December 2012, 05:47
The Rx1 will help the X200 sales. I think it is a direct competitor.

Jorgen Udvang
19th December 2012, 08:41
And this time, make two versions please; one 35 and one 85mm eqv. :p

raist3d
20th December 2012, 23:55
It's about time. I hope Fuji spare no expense in going after the RX-1... an f1.4 lens would be awesome.

Thanks for the rumour - the X100 is my favourite camera to use, and could really use a fast focusing, high speed lens.

Brian

I was seriously considering an RX1 because of both high ISO performance and leaf shutter. Then I read the X200 X-trans rumor and started to think "Fuji." I love the Q but a well priced reasonably fast Fuji X200 would rock for street life in many situations.

I am not sure how well they can go for an F1.4. I really want the camera to be compact too. Ideally smaller than the X100 but I am not sure how feasible that is.

Did a shooting in a small venue of a classical music concert with the Q and had I had any camera with shutter noise I would have been kicked out. They didn't even notice I took the shots and they were more than happy I did.

So I have a new appreciation for quiet! :-)

http://raist3d.typepad.com/files/imgp0162.jpg

http://raist3d.typepad.com/files/imgp0187_tone_s2.jpg

- Raist

raist3d
20th December 2012, 23:56
And this time, make two versions please; one 35 and one 85mm eqv. :p

:-)

I wouldn't mind a 47mm equivalent lens one. Or even a special lens that you could mechanically adjust to end up with 2-3 pre-set focal lengths, if such design makes sense to keep the quality of the lenses high over a typical zoom.

- Raist

pophoto
21st December 2012, 12:12
The Rx1 will help the X200 sales. I think it is a direct competitor.

I cannot imagine the directness, since already differed in price alone!

Peter Leyenaar
21st December 2012, 14:31
Rumours an speculations, pining away for the X200, then the X300 etc. the folks at Fuji
rubbing their hands in glee,
This makes some interesting reading
This is why your pictures suck | Adam Marelli Photo (http://www.adammarelliphoto.com/2012/08/this-is-why-your-pictures-suck/)

raist3d
21st December 2012, 19:52
Rumours an speculations, pining away for the X200, then the X300 etc. the folks at Fuji
rubbing their hands in glee,
This makes some interesting reading
This is why your pictures suck | Adam Marelli Photo (http://www.adammarelliphoto.com/2012/08/this-is-why-your-pictures-suck/)

Yes. Very interesting reading indeed. I take you are speaking for yourself though?

- raist

raist3d
21st December 2012, 21:55
Looks like it will be an X100 lens (F2.0, same focal length). It's ok.

- Raist

Peter Leyenaar
21st December 2012, 22:19
Yes. Very interesting reading indeed. I take you are speaking for yourself though?

- raist

I do admit to liking various types of equipment , and of course , getting something new is always ( for me ) a motivating factor .
Having been a long time Leica film shooter , this craze for more mbs seems
somewhat odd, considering that the iq of digital has surpassed the iq of film
some time ago, except perhaps for cibachrome.
That critique must have touched a nerve though , seeing that you wish to make it personal.
Btw , that wasn't me speaking, simply directing attention to the article.

raist3d
22nd December 2012, 00:25
I do admit to liking various types of equipment , and of course , getting something new is always ( for me ) a motivating factor .
Having been a long time Leica film shooter , this craze for more mbs seems
somewhat odd, considering that the iq of digital has surpassed the iq of film
some time ago, except perhaps for cibachrome.
That critique must have touched a nerve though , seeing that you wish to make it personal.
Btw , that wasn't me speaking, simply directing attention to the article.

Hmmm... I guess my reply did touch a nerve, didn't it? :-) Look at what you replied with, originally:

"Rumours an speculations, pining away for the X200, then the X300 etc. the folks at Fuji
rubbing their hands in glee,
This makes some interesting reading"

Don't try to hide behind the "oh, you decided to make it personal" bs. *You clearly meant something when you wrote what you wrote*, did you not?

Funny thing, I actually sympathize with this far more than you think, but you came in opening fire on the entire thread from the get go without even bothering to check anything- thus you can't come in and say no "oh I meant this in general" and try to hide behind that. Stand by what you say, or don't say it then- or better yet- speak for yourself.

So to answer your first sentences (since yes, you are clearly referring to the thread and what I started), I am not pinning away for the X200 then the X300, etc. Yes, there are many I have seen that do exactly that on these forums (and many other forums for that matter). I have done the same too, but in this thread, I was just interested for the X200 for a set of very special and particular reasons. If it happens and full fills very specific photographic tool reasons I am interested in. If not, then well no.

If I just wanted "latest and greatest" for its own sake, I surely wouldn't be "wasting my time" using a Pentax Q with a "useless sensor" for the better part of last year right? A camera I use almost on a daily basis.

- Raist

GrahamWelland
22nd December 2012, 01:28
And this time, make two versions please; one 35 and one 85mm eqv. :p

3 versions. Add a 21 or 24mm version and I'd be in heaven. 21/35/85 or 90 are my favorite focal lengths on a RF platform. (Actually any platform really)

Vivek
22nd December 2012, 08:03
I cannot imagine the directness, since already differed in price alone!

You are right. The Rx1 would not be a good match for the X200 which would be cheaper, with a built in VF, usable hot-shoe, usable without a $150 thumb grip, possibly with no color shift problems and equal or better DR and IQ.

What was I thinking! :facesmack:

pophoto
22nd December 2012, 08:09
Okay Vivek, but don't do it again. :p

JSRockit
26th December 2012, 06:22
Looks like I'll have to have one since the X100 has been my most used camera over the last year.

Brian Mosley
30th December 2012, 04:59
Looks like it will be an X100 lens (F2.0, same focal length). It's ok.

- Raist

I'd be fine with that optically, but the focusing mechanism needs an upgrade... fast and silent please!

Cheers

Brian

raist3d
5th January 2013, 23:39
Brian, just tea the following tonight:

- new much faster aF (0.08 secs, possible hybrid aF by still rumor)
- new exe sensor (probably about twice as fast)
- focus peaking

Braeside
6th January 2013, 05:38
Yes, X100s specs have been leaked and look great. Phase detect and CDAF, X-Trans 16Mpixels sensor, Digital Split Image, Higher res EVF + OVF, Focus Peaking. Wow! Bring on the XPro-2 with those features.

Details here (http://www.fujifilm.eu/uk/news/article/news/introducing-the-new-fujifilm-x100s-1/)

Vivek
6th January 2013, 06:06
I appreciate that they actually list the shutter lag time (0.01s) among others. That sounds about the same (or could be less) as the Sony stuff.

raist3d
6th January 2013, 06:12
The shutter lag listed i bet is pre focus shutter lag. Tons of camera
Do hyper fast there already. What matter is their new aF time. Looks like they are very very fast now.

So looks like the x100s is a major upgrade from x100 in operation. They even have range go set split image like manual focus.

Other than one full stop DOF and maybe some still better higher iso performance by a hair, I don't see what an rx1 has over this camera.

Update: I guess the rx1 is still a bit smaller?

raist3d
6th January 2013, 06:15
I expect the x100s to sell out

Vivek
6th January 2013, 06:47
The shutter lag listed i bet is pre focus shutter lag. Tons of camera
Do hyper fast there already.

I had the latest NEX' in mind when I mentioned the shutter lag. Sony NEX' using manual focus lenses still have an annoying shutter lag. I think it takes a while for them to process that data regarding WB and exposure. If I press the shutter all the way, I can get an image faster but with an inaccurate WB and exposure. It is not pleasant at all.

Show Performance
6th January 2013, 11:17
Solid, solid update on paper. Let's see how they I implememt.

Very pleased with the specs though and looking forward to these features moving up to the X-Pro on the next release.

Agree with Raist3d - not much enticing about the RX1 now, at least at the current price.

raist3d
6th January 2013, 17:59
So looks like this isn't the Fuji camera I will be jumping for. Looks like that would be whatever updates they did with Xtrans-II, EXR cpu II applied to an X-E1 (X-E1 II if you will) with the pancake lens.

So I would imagine that will be out mid-summer to end of this year, then that's it. Time to sell my Pentax stuff and do the jump thing. I would have a pro camera for everything I want to do that I want to carry with me at all times for street life.

The issue I have with this one is that I am not a 35mm focal length shooter. (certainly not the "camera's fault."

- Raist

Amin
6th January 2013, 18:29
Other than one full stop DOF and maybe some still better higher iso performance by a hair, I don't see what an rx1 has over this camera.

Update: I guess the rx1 is still a bit smaller?

The RX1 gives you the more shallow DOF, higher resolution, and probably about a stop better ISO performance.

As for size, the Fuji is still considerably slimmer (front to back) because of the smaller lens: Compact Camera Meter (http://j.mp/RSpwDK)

It's taller due to the viewfinder inclusion (a good tradeoff for most people), and wider, which should allow for better ergonomics IMO.

I tried the RX1 last week and would personally rather have the X100S. Won't be getting either though.

Show Performance
6th January 2013, 20:36
The RX1 gives you the more shallow DOF, higher resolution, and probably about a stop better ISO performance.

As for size, the Fuji is still considerably slimmer (front to back) because of the smaller lens: Compact Camera Meter (http://j.mp/RSpwDK)

It's taller due to the viewfinder inclusion (a good tradeoff for most people), and wider, which should allow for better ergonomics IMO.

I tried the RX1 last week and would personally rather have the X100S. Won't be getting either though.

Amin, you forgot to add that the RX1 also gives you a $2,000 larger deficit in your bank account ;)

Curious about your last statement, if money was no object but you could only have one, why would you select the X100s? Or is the money a deciding factor in your hypothetical?

And to the point about resolution, I think I would take a 16mp camera with no filter over a 24mp with filter all day long. But that's just my preference of course. Would really like the 24mp without!

Chad

pophoto
6th January 2013, 21:00
I hope the XPro2 or XE2 could approach the 24MP resolution mark, but that's just wishful thinking on my part!

raist3d
6th January 2013, 21:57
The RX1 gives you the more shallow DOF, higher resolution, and probably about a stop better ISO performance.
[quote]

The shallower dof yes. The higher resolution- depends. Rx1 has aa filter, the fuji doesn't. It's possible the fuji may match or near match it. The ISo performance I am not sure either- the xtrans is really good. My guess is maybe but maybe not one full stop.

[quote]
As for size, the Fuji is still considerably slimmer (front to back) because of the smaller lens: Compact Camera Meter (http://j.mp/RSpwDK)

It's taller due to the viewfinder inclusion (a good tradeoff for most people), and wider, which should allow for better ergonomics IMO.

I tried the RX1 last week and would personally rather have the X100S. Won't be getting either though.

Looks to me the x100s will have a lot of things over the Sony at half the price (tops). But yeah, as much ask would enjoy getting one, it's not for me either.

raist3d
6th January 2013, 21:59
I hope the XPro2 or XE2 could approach the 24MP resolution mark, but that's just wishful thinking on my part!

I am fine with 16mp to be honest. For the work I like doing is more than enough and 24 mp will be a workflow clog. Speaking for myself of course. I wouldn't mind 24 much as long as they keep the IsO perf.

Raist

Tim
7th January 2013, 18:56
With the X100s announced this will of course push NOS and used X100 prices down. This makes a good camera even more of a bargain to anyone who wanted to try a X100 and yet has not.

It could get to a point that its not worth selling a working X100 as its a lot of camera for little money now.

I am curious as to what price the RX-1 may eventually dive to. Perhaps Sony will release a RX-2 FF mirrorless (everyone will have to have one) and RX-1 prices will inevitably fall. I may step in then on a RX-1.

raist3d
7th January 2013, 19:44
I must say Fuji exceeded my expectations with the announcements - provided they follow up. Still the X100s is not my camera. Probably more like what would be the X-E1s, or the X20 before the X100s.

- Raist

retow
7th January 2013, 20:55
The RX1 gives you the more shallow DOF, higher resolution, and probably about a stop better ISO performance.

As for size, the Fuji is still considerably slimmer (front to back) because of the smaller lens: Compact Camera Meter (http://j.mp/RSpwDK)

It's taller due to the viewfinder inclusion (a good tradeoff for most people), and wider, which should allow for better ergonomics IMO.

I tried the RX1 last week and would personally rather have the X100S. Won't be getting either though.

And then there is a significant, but less measurable advantage to the RX1, the unique and beautiful rendering of its Sonnar lens ........ As nice as the 23mm Fuji optics are, the lens glued to the Sony body is worth a considerable premium to me.

Jorgen Udvang
8th January 2013, 05:08
I was planning to buy an E-PL5 and the new Zuiko 17mm to use as a semi pocketable street cam. Now I'm not so sure anymore. The X100S seems to be just what I need.

Brian Mosley
8th January 2013, 06:08
This looks to be an X100 enthusiasts dream upgrade. Only thing they left out (arguably) was an articulating lcd for waist level shooting.

I can certainly forgive them that. Seriously want one.

Brian

Show Performance
8th January 2013, 07:01
And then there is a significant, but less measurable advantage to the RX1, the unique and beautiful rendering of its Sonnar lens ........ As nice as the 23mm Fuji optics are, the lens glued to the Sony body is worth a considerable premium to me.

No doubt, the RX1 lens is tops but you said the magic word - premium. There are so many people that lust after the X100 but even its price point is too expensive for them. The RX1 is comparably in the stratosphere and as such, a truly niche camera in a category similar to Leica (although certainly a good value if you understand and can utilize what it offers).

Enjoy it you lucky bastard ;)

monza
8th January 2013, 08:20
To put things in perspective:

Sony RX1 OVF $600
Sony RX1 EVF $450
Total ---- $1050

Fuji x100s with OVF and EVF $1300

:)

JSRockit
8th January 2013, 09:04
This looks to be an X100 enthusiasts dream upgrade. Only thing they left out (arguably) was an articulating lcd for waist level shooting.


I'm a huge fan of the X100 and am very happy they didn't put in that type of screen. Fuji makes cameras that we can use at eye level... thankfully.

raist3d
8th January 2013, 10:20
And then there is a significant, but less measurable advantage to the RX1, the unique and beautiful rendering of its Sonnar lens ........ As nice as the 23mm Fuji optics are, the lens glued to the Sony body is worth a considerable premium to me.

I am sure the rx1 lens is amazing but judging from the distortion and sharpness admittedly very small (IMHO) issues and fujis purposely compensation (new tech) for lens diffraction combined with the fact the x100 lens as we know is also pretty amazing I am not sure this difference will be that big. You do get shallower dof so that counts.

To me personally I see much better usability in fujis proposition. (I think we can agree that both manual and regular af will be notably faster) and you get not just an eve but also an off from the get go.

Not trying to say the rx1 is not great but I get a hunch total camera feel/use the fuji may very well give a very compelling experience that will rival and for many exceed, Sonys proposition. Nd filter anyone?

A part of me wishes fuji went the sigma way and did a 50, and 75 focal length equivalents of this model.

Raist

Ps: not trying to shoot down your preferences, just trying to paint a "full camera use" perspective. The rx1 is very nice indeed and I am speaking for myself.

raist3d
8th January 2013, 10:26
This looks to be an X100 enthusiasts dream upgrade. Only thing they left out (arguably) was an articulating lcd for waist level shooting.

I can certainly forgive them that. Seriously want one.

Brian

Me too- I honestly rather have a slim figured camera than the articulated LCD. They give you a hybrid ovf and a leaf shutter! ;-)

Honestly I wasn't expecting such a well thought out upgrade. Was checking the fuji USA fuji guys video and they made some really good improvements in the usability over the x100. Like they listened or something!

It really seems this camera takes care of virtually my fuji x mount and x100 critiques- af, operational speed- even when they had a good set of buttons, menus and levels to push/pull.

If I was a 35mm shooter I would be so over it.

- Ricardo

Brian Mosley
8th January 2013, 12:31
I love the 35mm perspective. It allows for close up environmental portrait... really giving a sense of 'being there' and I'm so glad that Fuji are developing their superb hybrid ovf/evf technology.

The articulating screen is seriously useful for shooting without sticking the camera in front of your face (I'm left eye dominant).

I'd be quite happy with a remote viewfinder app for Android... haven't Samsung already done this?

Cheers

Brian

soboyle
8th January 2013, 12:51
Any idea when these will be available?
Love the X100 IQ and handling, other than the slowish AF it's a stellar camera, this looks to be THE carry around camera for me.

monza
8th January 2013, 14:32
End of March in the US, probably earlier elsewhere...

raist3d
9th January 2013, 20:44
First fuji x100s sample images (not %100)

Fotogalerie : X100S | FUJIFILM (http://fujifilm-x.com/x100s/de/gallery/)

raist3d
9th January 2013, 22:47
Bah, this is not good. My brain is trying to justify this camera for me. I was actually near convinced to buy the RX1 so getting this one shouldn't be that much of an effort if I was pretty convinced on the RX1....

- Raist

woodyspedden
11th January 2013, 16:07
End of March in the US, probably earlier elsewhere...

Robert

Do you know if the EVF frame rate for the X100s is different from the X100? 60 fps would make it a killer

Woody

monza
11th January 2013, 16:08
I believe it's the same as the X-E1, which is faster, but i don't think it's 60fps fast...

Update from Fuji rep: mid April in USA.

Brian Mosley
12th January 2013, 00:59
Bah, this is not good. My brain is trying to justify this camera for me. I was actually near convinced to buy the RX1 so getting this one shouldn't be that much of an effort if I was pretty convinced on the RX1....

- Raist

Have you tried the RX1? I'm assuming you will have tried the X100. The feel is completely different. Like shooting with a classic, photographers camera vs a (slow focusing) point and shoot.

Personally, I think the RX1 is now hugely overpriced in comparison with the X100s.

No offence to any of the owners of the RX1 here - I could easily have taken that route if it had felt right in my hands.

What do you think?

Brian

raist3d
12th January 2013, 05:13
Have you tried the RX1? I'm assuming you will have tried the X100. The feel is completely different. Like shooting with a classic, photographers camera vs a (slow focusing) point and shoot.


I have tried the X100 (after firmware upgrades) but not the RX1. But I trust the RX1 will feel great given what I read. What I am most concerned is could I shoot 35mm, and that given the money, I wanted to make it my only camera for everything.

But that part is a huge huge jump for me. I researched if I could shoot an entire wedding at 35mm... looks like it's all possible, but it certainly puts some directions in style... still mulling that.

One huge win for the RX1 (and X100s) - leaf silent shutter. For street photography, to me, that's priceless. Same for covering an event silently.



Personally, I think the RX1 is now hugely overpriced in comparison with the X100s.


Certainly the price differential makes one think, particularly when I bet the Fuji will focus faster, and has a built in exclusive hybrid view finder.



No offence to any of the owners of the RX1 here - I could easily have taken that route if it had felt right in my hands.

What do you think?

Brian

(Speaking for myself) - Assuming I was ok and convinced to shoot 35mm, I would have to see a major quality improvement over the Fuji to go for the Sony. And that's the problem- I don't see it happening. A lot of the X100 "P&S" feel comes from its operational speed, and that seems like something Fuji very explicitly tackled with the X100S.

It's always good in the end to hold both and see how "it just feels" but most likely, I would just go for the Fuji. I have seen what Xtrans can do in low light with an X-Pro1/X-E1 (have tried those myself, personally) and it's pretty good. Given that, I would have a real hard time time paying slightly over twice the price for the Sony (in USA).

Also Sony has a couple of things that make the RX1 less usable to me- like lack of built in ND filter, lack of external battery charger (this is solvable but really makes me mad that Sony went that way).

It's hard to say though from my view if the RX1 is really over priced given it has a full frame F2.0 lens and a full frame sensor- at least on the "bill of manufacture" point of view. But yeah, harder to justify for me in pragmatic terms over the Fuji.

In either case my main deal breaker is I need to make sure I could do most of my photos at 35mm, because otherwise I really can't justify selling my K-5 and Q for that. Basically the K-5 is amazing and so is the Q, but the benefit (to me) is in using the same system for weddings/events and my personal fine art/street photography is what I am looking for here. I get great image quality everywhere and the best gut-feel intuitive connect with the equipment as I would be using it for everything.

(BTW, that's pretty how how I feel using the Q now, as it's been my main camera for the last year).

I could always wait for the inevitable "X-E1 II" which will carry the benefits the X100S just got- maybe even a 24MP Xtrans-who knows, that's yet another option, but having that silent leaf shutter is oh so appealing.

- Raist

raist3d
12th January 2013, 05:14
OH btw, if I had no Pentax Q I would probably be buying the X20. The X20 is actually my kind of camera with the new upgrades- but I would not shoot a wedding with it (as a main camera). Thus no benefit over what I currently have.

If I could shoot and sell work to shoot a wedding on an X20 I would make that my main camera (or do it with the Q if I could and keep using the Q- I love the Q).

- Raist

Brian Mosley
12th January 2013, 05:47
Just to be clear, if you've shot with the E-P1 plus 17mm f2.8... That's very similar to the RX1 in performance... The RX1 feels much more solid, expensive and smaller (at least the body, the lens sticks out more and feels like solid metal and glass), but the focusing speed is right up there with the E-P1.

The X100s will no doubt be a speed demon, and a pleasure to work with considering the simple external controls.

I think the X100s will be a hard core street shooting gem. As for the focal length, if I had to restrict myself to a single perspective this would be it... but for me, having the E-M5 keeps my options wide open and a full kit fits in a small LowePro messenger 100 bag.

I don't think image quality will be a major factor between the two... Other than the super narrow depth of field you can get with the RX1 (provided you can nail focus fast enough)

Cheers

Brian

raist3d
12th January 2013, 06:00
Just to be clear, if you've shot with the E-P1 plus 17mm f2.8... That's very similar to the RX1 in performance... The RX1 feels much more solid, expensive and smaller (at least the body, the lens sticks out more and feels like solid metal and glass), but the focusing speed is right up there with the E-P1.


I would expect the rx1 to be faster in af vs the ep1 but I have not used the rx1 so don't know. Surprised its about same speed.



The X100s will no doubt be a speed demon, and a pleasure to work with considering the simple external controls.

I think the X100s will be a hard core street shooting gem.


Oh I totally agree with that. I just don't usually shoot that focal length for what I do so just making sure first.



As for the focal length, if I had to restrict myself to a single perspective this would be it... but for me, having the E-M5 keeps my options wide open and a full kit fits in a small LowePro messenger 100 bag.


To me the magical focal is the Q/sigma do2 focal- say 45-47mm equiv.



I don't think image quality will be a major factor between the two... Other than the super narrow depth of field you can get with the RX1 (provided you can nail focus fast enough)


Those are my thoughts/expectations also.



Cheers

Brian

Vivek
17th January 2013, 02:50
Just to be clear, if you've shot with the E-P1 plus 17mm f2.8... That's very similar to the RX1 in performance... The RX1 feels much more solid, expensive and smaller (at least the body, the lens sticks out more and feels like solid metal and glass), but the focusing speed is right up there with the E-P1.

The X100s will no doubt be a speed demon, and a pleasure to work with considering the simple external controls.

I think the X100s will be a hard core street shooting gem. As for the focal length, if I had to restrict myself to a single perspective this would be it... but for me, having the E-M5 keeps my options wide open and a full kit fits in a small LowePro messenger 100 bag.

I don't think image quality will be a major factor between the two... Other than the super narrow depth of field you can get with the RX1 (provided you can nail focus fast enough)

Cheers

Brian

This one appears to coincide with some of your thoughts:

Hands on with the Fujifilm X100s (http://www.flixelpix.com/featured/hands-on-the-x100s/)