G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

Two thumbs up from me.

Been thinking about this myself and its the best way to implement in the current body and retain all other features. The current 2-button press isn't too bad per se, its just that the buttons are in a rubbish place. A dedicated button for it on the front of the camera would be ideal and seeing as we can't change the body using the shutter button (as an option of course) is the best we can do.

A more complex option would be to work out what signal (if any) a turn of the focus ring sends to the body - if we knew that it might be possible for a 3rd party adapter manufacturer to make an intelligent adapter that would reproduce that signal.

The current system is OK for slow shooting, but this method would make MF zoom assist a much more fluid and accessible tool...

At the moment, you have to press the left arrow, then enter, then as soon as you half press the shutter release button you lose the zoomed view... back to pressing the left arrow, then enter to reactivate the zoomed view.

Kind Regards

Brian

Brian Mosley said:

The current system is OK for slow shooting, but this method would make MF zoom assist a much more fluid and accessible tool...

At the moment, you have to press the left arrow, then enter, then as soon as you half press the shutter release button you lose the zoomed view... back to pressing the left arrow, then enter to reactivate the zoomed view.

Kind Regards

Brian

Click to expand...

Brian I responded to this on DPReview. I will have to have another go at the camera on a tripod but when you aren't working quickly I think this would be annoying. If my focus is set and I don't take a shot for a few minutes (as the sun is setting) the half press re-establishes my metering I don't know that I want it to jump back to my zoomed view.

Hi Terry,

I'm sorry - I'm running this poll on both forums because there are different audiences... as I said over there, this would be an additional, optional mode for fast shooting.

Kind Regards

Brian

I like the toggle idea. But when you're in 'wide' view how about a focus assist indication (like utilizing that center focus assist square that's used there already) that tells you when the legacy (or any non Panasonic-linked) lens is in focus? Wouldn't that be faster still?

Peter

Unfortunately, I don't think the camera can tell when you're in focus without being able to finely rack the lens focus back and forth to compare... so this wouldn't be possible with a manually focused lens.

Kind Regards

Brian

Sounds like a good idea to me Brian. By the way, is that hole on the right side of the G1 a Focus assist light, or just a screw hole?

I think I would prefer it as an option to the AF/AE lock button. It is a more natural location and wouldn't interfere as much with use of the shutter button. Another alternative would be that when you put the camera in MF mode it would create a magnified area in the center of the image that could be zoomed up and down in magnification using the front scroll wheel. No need to push any buttons. One position of the scroll wheel is to magnify or reduce and click it in and it controls shutter speed.

I'm sorry im not trying to be negative on this thread but i was not a fan of the magnified view in manual focus mode on some of the other panny cameras. I do like to be able to toggle back and forth from magnified to wide. This camers is able to be focused in wide mode in some situations and that is the fastest way to work.

Terry,
Then you should like my idea since the central area could go from 0 magnification to the 16x supported by the camera. You would control it never having to take your eye from the EVF.

It's OK Terry, I want a robust discussion... but in the end, I think a really simple solution will have the best chance of being implemented.

John, I seriously considered the AF/AE lock button, but that would still be slower than this proposed method... I'm looking for the absolute fastest, simplest method to toggle MF zoom. I'm all for having that zoom factor controlled by the scroll wheel.

Kind Regards

Brian

barjohn said:

Terry,
Then you should like my idea since the central area could go from 0 magnification to the 16x supported by the camera. You would control it never having to take your eye from the EVF.

Click to expand...

Well, just going back to how I've been using the camera, on my bridges shots most of my shots were not using the center portion of the frame for precise focus. I moved the focus box to the bridge wires, lights, etc. The key being that none were in the center.

Terry - this is how I've been using the camera on the tripod, and I agree it works extremely well - especially with that fantastic articulating lcd.

Kind Regards

Brian

OK, I got my Novoflex adapter just over 1 hour ago - so of course I have lots of experience to contribute with...

After trying it out with (mainly) a Summicron 50, I see that I underestimated the problem of pressing those two (awkwardly placed) buttons in order to get the magnified view. For relaxed shooting with stationary subjects, no problem; on a tripod, it works great (together with the easily moveable area). But so far, I can´t really do it while holding the camera up to my eye, so I can´t get a flow when shooting this way.

This means that for, say running dogs & c, I don´t really think it will work, so I´m open to other ideas.

I think Brian´s initial suggestion (toggling by half-press) would work great - only, I wouldn´t want it this way when using a tripod, so it should be an option.

John´s idea of dedicating the AF/AE lock button might be even better, since it will replace 2 (awkwardly placed) buttons with one (much better placed).

For me, shooting only raw, the film mode button is just a waste of real estate; I never use it. So that might be another candidate.

Thanks Per, and congratulations... I wish I had a Summicron 50

Using *any* other button to toggle the MF zoomed view will involve changing your holding position on the camera - this is an instantaneous way of switching AF zoom on/off for more fluid manual focus shooting.

At the moment, it takes several keypresses - this method reduces that to effectively zero - as the MF zoom becomes integral to the shutter release control.

Kind Regards

Brian

Panasonic implemented changes with MF in the firmware update, and hopefully will make further improvements.

I've become somewhat adept at the two button press method. It certainly makes sense for tripod use, to press the first button to bring up the box, and then use the arrow to move the box around. But for handheld use, there is probably a better method. On the D700 there is a tripod mode and a handheld mode for live view, maybe they could have some similar setting.

I was thinking along the same lines as John, maybe just have the center part of the image be magnified, and if the front dial is turned, it could zoom in stages until the entire image is magnified.

I think my last method was misunderstood. My last method uses no buttons. Just put the camera in MF with the dial. A small square of approximately 30% of the viewing area is outlined and can be moved with the arrow keys. Magnification is initially zero. Using the front scroll wheel the area in the square can be magnified up to 16x. This has the advantage that you can always see the entire image frame. Further you can control the magnified area via the scroll wheel and it can be moved around to select the desired focus point. No other buttons are needed, just a firmware modification. Shutter speed can still be changed using the dial by clicking on it. Clicking on it again takes you back to magnification control. Simple and effective.

Brian Mosley said:

....Using *any* other button to toggle the MF zoomed view will involve changing your holding position on the camera - this is an instantaneous way of switching AF zoom on/off for more fluid manual focus shooting.

At the moment, it takes several keypresses - this method reduces that to effectively zero - as the MF zoom becomes integral to the shutter release control.
....

Click to expand...

Yes, I think you´re right there; for real fast shooting, nothing could beat using the same button. But, as Terry said, there are times when one doesn´t want this toggling every time one touches the release.

When i used a Nikon D200, I was one of those people who moved AF actuation from the release to the dedicated button on the back. It did take a short while to learn, but it meant that I could pre-focus, re-compose, and wait a while for an action, and then press the shutter, WITHOUT the camera starting to re-focus. At other times, focussing and releasing followed immediately upon each other, and once one got used to it, it was very fast and reliable.

And, it worked just as well on a tripod. An initial AF, if necessary followed by a manual adjustment, and then one could just wait for the right moment and press the cable release without further concern for the focus.

Now, on the G1, the AF/AE lock button is placed similarly to the AF actuation button on that Nikon: right under your right thumb when holding the camera.

But, since we´re talking firmware and custom functions, why not have it all these ways? One custom function with three choices: 1) leave it as is, 2) use Brian´s toggle idea, or 3) move it to the AF/AE lock button.