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Don Libby
19th June 2009, 10:51
I've now had the pleasure of comparing the WDS to the WRS for a week. I've shot both in my normal working environment which is outside in any type weather standing on a cliff face.

I'm adding images of the two bodies with the WRS sitting directly in front of the WDS. Both have a tripod plate attached as well as a back adapter. I had to use a weight to steady the WDS and that's what you see in 2 of the images; it's an 18volt battery to a portable drill.

Something I might nit have covered before is the lens fit. I checked with Capture Integration and learned there is a difference in fir between the two bodies. All my lens felt "sloppy" in the WDS; I felt a certain amount of play with all the lens. The lens fits much better on the WRS. The only difference I could tell is the WDS has one locking lever while the WRS has two. Maybe someone else can address this.

I was surprised at the weight difference; 1 pound. I had both bodies weighted on a certified shipping scale; 3.2 pounds for the WDS and 2.2 pounds for the WRS. The weights include the tripod attachment as well as the back adapter.

Here's the images:
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/8/6/8/wds-wrs-1.jpg
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/8/6/8/wds-wrs-2.jpg
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/8/6/8/wds-wrs-3.jpg
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/8/6/8/wds-wrs-4.jpg


I also want to again thank Dave Gallagher and Chris Lawery of Capture Integration (http://www.captureintegration.com/) for sending me the Cambo WDS to play with.


Don

By the way: My hands down favorite is the WRS

carstenw
19th June 2009, 10:56
If you feel like it, could you show the shift mechanisms in each camera?

Don Libby
19th June 2009, 11:14
If you feel like it, could you show the shift mechanisms in each camera?

I think I understand what you want but instead of me screwing it up how 'bout explaining what you'd like to see?

The large knobs on the WDS are for the movements and the white "knobs" on the WRS are for the movements. You have to be physically in front of the WDS to see the movements and to a certain extent actually use the knobs. There's no need to be in front of the WRS for any movements. The second and third image shows the movements scales on the WRS - one next to each white knob.

Let me know what else I can do as I'll have the WDS till Monday.

Don

Clawery
19th June 2009, 11:21
Don,

Thanks for taking the time to do a side-by-side comparison of the Cambo RS and WDS and reporting your findings.

Chris Lawery(e-mail Me) (mailto:[email protected])
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Don Libby
19th June 2009, 11:34
Here's the WDS without the little guy sitting in front. This way you can see the two movement knobs as well as the scales.

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/8/6/8/1.jpg

carstenw
19th June 2009, 11:47
I don't know so much about technical cameras, although I am interested, so I was trying to understand some of your earlier comments about needing to stand in front. I guess on the WDS you need to see the scale which is on the front? Is that for repeatability, or why do you need to see the scale? I guess I really just wanted to understand the physical workflow of the two cameras. I read the words, but something was still not connected in my head :) How about a photo from the rear then?

Don Libby
19th June 2009, 12:42
I don't know so much about technical cameras, although I am interested, so I was trying to understand some of your earlier comments about needing to stand in front. I guess on the WDS you need to see the scale which is on the front? Is that for repeatability, or why do you need to see the scale? I guess I really just wanted to understand the physical workflow of the two cameras. I read the words, but something was still not connected in my head :) How about a photo from the rear then?

Carsten

The WDS and WRS offer two different types and ways of achieving movements.

The WDS has the controlling knobs and movement scales in the front. You physically can not see either one when standing at the rear of the camera.

The WRS has the controlling knobs or rollers on the side surface of the camera, one on top for side to side movements and one on the upper right side (camera back facing you) for rise and fall. The major movement scales are located adjacent to each roller along with a set of etched set of scales on the rear of the body. You can see and move the rollers while standing directly to the rear of the camera while also reading the individual movement scales.

The importance of being able to read the scales is repeatability. I can shoot 3-rows by 3 columns of images (total of 9) without ever leaving the rear of the camera with the WRS since all the movement rollers and scales are readily accessible from the rear. I can and do make these movements while the image is being processed on the back. Additionally I need each row to be at the same precise amount of movements whether it's 5mm, 10mm or 15mm or anywhere in-between.

The WDS forces you to step in front of the camera each time you want to make a movement. You need to be in front to do operate the knobs as well as seeing the scale. This may not be a deal breaker for some however as I often find myself on the edge of a cliff and can't easily work in front of the camera it is for me.

Hope this helps.

Don

carstenw
19th June 2009, 15:08
Okay, I understand it now, thanks. The WRS 1000 also has geared controls for shift, right?

Don Libby
19th June 2009, 15:17
Yes you're correct the WRS has geared movements. There are indents in the movements that you can "feel" if you take your time. I like the "feel" of the movements on the WRS much more than the WDS.

Don

thomas
20th June 2009, 11:12
Okay, I understand it now, thanks. The WRS 1000 also has geared controls for shift, right? on the WRS you have a "fine" scale in mm on the top and on the right side of the camera (images #1 and #2). You make the movements with the silver screws.
In addition there is a scale in 5mm steps engraved in the body on the left side and on the bottom side (image #3). When you adjust the shift the screws snap in slightly every 5mm ... so you can adjust the shift without looking on the scales if you like to.

Don Libby
20th June 2009, 11:25
Thomas - thanks for taking the time to do the photos. I forgot that I needed to get better shots!

http://www.jk-forum.com/images/smilies/clap2.gifhttp://www.jk-forum.com/images/smilies/clap2.gif

carstenw
20th June 2009, 14:07
Thanks Thomas, that makes it clear.

karlfoto
10th April 2010, 22:29
Hi Guys

This is a good comparison, as are the others i have seen on this site.

I have been watching this camera for about a year, and trying to decide whether this would be a better option than the D3X and 24 pc lens.

Just a few questions to those who might be using it for architecture, which is my main line of work.

When you are shifting upwards to get the whole building in square, is it a nuisance not being able to see through the viewer what the final image will look like, and whether in fact you have shifted enough, or to much. It would seem to me that without using a gg between shots, you would only see your final result on the db once you have taken it, and then might have to retake it because it was not shifted enough, or to much. Surely this would be time wasted?

Secondly, is their a quick solution to the colour shift you get when using lf lenses and digital backs whilst shift the back to correct perspective?

Thanks
Karl

thomas
11th April 2010, 01:57
Karl,

not sure I get you right... but of course you see the composition on the groundglass.
The Cambo groundglass provides an indication for the sensor frame and an indication in millimeters. So you really see what you are capturing.
http://www.cambo.com/Html/Images/WDS-619-02.jpg

Secondly there is also a little finder to be attached on the camera providing masks for each lens that show the image format and the amount of shift for the respective lens:
http://www.cambo.com/Html/Images/WDS-580_3s.jpg
http://www.cambo.com/Html/Images/WDS-947.jpg

Now, this little finder is not really accurate enough in terms of composition as you simply don't know the real center of the frame. But once you've set up your compostion on the GG - and therefore you know the exact center of the image - the little finder is a usefull accessory as the cropped sensor frame and the shift indication work surprisingly well. So as long as you don't change the position of the camera you only have to use the groundglass initially and afterwards you can work with the finder.
Makes sense?
However I myself mostly use it as a viewfinder before I set up my camera. For the actual compostion I use the groundglass.

Thirdly the LCD on any DB is good enough to get at least an idea of the actual cadration.

Of course, if you shoot a lot of variations of the same scene a sliding back is much more comfortable.

As to color shift: all medium format raw convertors provide a "lens cast calibration" or "white shading".
You have to shoot a white plate for the respective adjusted movements of the lens and load that capture as a calibration file in the software.
Looks like this:
http://xchange.phaseone.com/KBFiles//0/1/ch14-4.jpg
http://www.capturescanprint.com/_pics/white_shading_diff.jpg
The workflow is explained here: support.phaseone.com/KBFiles/2118/1/LCCWin.pdf

karlfoto
12th April 2010, 03:47
Hi Thomas

Thanks for your input.

I am aware that you can use the gg to check your composition before you shoot, or even the viewer. That though can be a time consuming business to do (using the gg)when you have only about 30 min magic twilight to balance artificial lighting and the natural light, especially when you have at least 20 views to shoot. It would be great if the db had live view, so you cld see exactly what effect your shifting was having to the final image, that wld save a lot of time.

Do you do a lot of commercial architecture for clients, if so, how do you speed up the process using a gg to compose?

Thanks
Karl

thomas
13th April 2010, 12:42
Do you do a lot of commercial architecture for clients, if so, how do you speed up the process using a gg to composeno, I don't. But if you have to shoot 20 views in 30 minutes I think a sliding back won't help much either. I think shooting such volumes rather calls for a DSLR...

Don Libby
13th April 2010, 13:03
Thought I'd add my 2...

While I have a GG I've found myself not using it as much as I thought I would mainly because it's a PIA as well as can be rather difficult to accurately see in the bright Southwest sun without putting a cloth over my head; then there's the issue of wearing tri-focals that just muck everything up.

I have a fairly decent idea of what my lens will give me as I look down the centerline at the top of the camera and I use the screen on the P45+ to make certain I'm there.

I've shot many images during that magic hour although I don't think I've shot 20 in 30 minutes. That said I feel it could be done just by using the screen as a witness to ensure you get the scene where you want it.

I remember shooting a ton of images in my backyard just getting used to the lenses and what they can do for me and I highly recommend that practice before you head out.

All this may or may not apply to architecture photography and I'm certain that I'd use the GG to set up the initial shot if I were shooting architectural.

Again this is just my 2 so take it for what it's worth.

Don

karlfoto
14th April 2010, 23:08
Hi Don

I checked to make sure that my number of images that i sometimes shoot is about 20, and this is correct. For my interiors it is usually about that, especially if the house is large, also i am usually unable to go back a second time, so i have to get it all in one session.

For corporate buildings or scenic, there are usually not as many views and then I am shooting less in that time, and can use a slower contemplative approach. I have only recently stopped shooting scenic with my pentax 667ii, where i wld always take off the prism and use the screen and a black t-shirt to compose with both eyes, i really used to enjoy shooting like that.

However, I need a camera for both types, and sadly this might prove to be a dslr, although i wld dearly love to get the cambo.

Karl

karlfoto
14th April 2010, 23:09
Hi Thomas

Thanx for your input you might be right, see also the post in reply to Don's comment.

Karl

delonlemos
16th October 2012, 20:08
I also want to buy this Cambo hope this available in the online store
BTW Thanks for sharing
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/smilies/t.gif
http://iklan-media.com/img/index.jpg

dougpeterson
17th October 2012, 07:15
I'd suggest you contact your local dealer. Even if you can find it in an online store there are many small pieces/parts that you may or may not want that may or may not be included in an online purchase. An experienced dealer can make sure you get what you want/need.

Also since these tech cameras are very durable you may consider a pre-owned body. We for instance have a pre-owned Cambo Wide DS with adapter for $1250 and several demo lenses.

danakauk2014
22nd May 2014, 22:02
hi don.

Yes you're correct the WRS has geared movements. There are indents in the movements that you can "feel" if you take your time. I like the "feel" of the movements on the WRS much more than the WDS.and i am a wedding photographer

Don Libby
3rd October 2014, 06:14
Cameras come and go as we all know; I've lost track of the current count. The longest I've ever had a camera and continue to use it is the Cambo WRS. I remember returning from Alaska in 2008 and later that year trying the new WRS and not returning it to Capture Integration. I've changed backs since that time as well as lenses however the 1 (or) 2 constant things have been my WRS and Arca Swiss Cube.

I was very surprised at how well the WDS performed compared to the WRS and still recommend it for someone on a tight budget and just starting out. Both are very robust and will give you years of great image files.

After 6-years of using the WRS I still get a thrill out of setting it up and using it. Heading back to the Palouse next week where I'll be using it (felt naked last month when I was there for 2-days without it).

Thank you all for brining this thread back alive.

Don

elsoar
2nd December 2014, 05:28
Yay, really great, but talk with me more about the prices. As well as

Don Libby
2nd December 2014, 06:16
Yay, really great, but talk with me more about the prices. As well as

Have you tried going on line to any dealers? Or contacted them? My dealer is Capture Integration however any that support this site are good.

Don