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Thread: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Another day, another hotel room

    -bob

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Bob,

    I *really* like this shot --- wonderful composition, and it has that LF or at least MF capture feel to it! I suspect you used the Canon 50/1.2L on this shot? Maybe around f 1.8 or 2.0??? Also, really like these in B&W over color, just adds to the "film noir" character.

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Bob,

    I *really* like this shot --- wonderful composition, and it has that LF or at least MF capture feel to it! I suspect you used the Canon 50/1.2L on this shot? Maybe around f 1.8 or 2.0??? Also, really like these in B&W over color, just adds to the "film noir" character.

    Thanks, Jack.
    Yep, that is the 50/1.2 at 1.4
    It has become one of the model's favorites as well. One feature I wish C1 had was to sort by style and variant. Sometimes it helps to look at the images in B&W just to get a better feel for composition and treatment. What I would like to do is to take a whole shoot and easily create an album containing a variant with a style applied.
    The "film noir" look is due to a bit of clipping the blacks and lengthening the shoulder.
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 7th November 2009 at 06:05.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Youve really managed to capture this girl looking terrified bob,is this one of a series,is this the before or after?and Jack,Id be interested what it is that you* really* like about this cheap and in this case rather sick voyerism.
    What the model was actually terrified of perhaps was that her abdomen might not show too well in the rather unusual pose (for her).
    In this series we were trying to do a range of emotionally charged images with little variation on pose other than facial expressions. I have one with a smiling face which didn't work as well.
    I don't understand your question concerning before or after, this was somewhere about 2/3 through the shoot.
    As for cheap or sick voyeurism...
    Webster's definition[1] certainly seems clear. The image does not fall into that definition to me, I am sorry that it does for you.
    thanks
    -bob

    [1] http://www.websters-online-dictionar...voyeurism.html
    Last edited by Bob; 8th November 2009 at 17:54. Reason: to be more sensitive to the commenter's concerns

  5. #5
    wbrandsma
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    I have certainly a problem with my photographs been displayed in this thread together with such a photograph. I respect you for doing this Bob, but I don't share the same enthusiasm for this genre. And I certainly don't want to be connected to it either. All the best.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Hmmm first off I will not censor any image that is art for art sake. Obviously if something is over the line than we will delete a image. I see nothing wrong with this image as it is Bob's art and that is all their is to it and what he has been trying to master within himself, just like any one else trying to master a certain aspect of their shooting. We have plenty of nude images on this forum that even go further down that tunnel than this by a long shot. Bottom line as a working pro I will not censor images and as part owner of this forum and like any other forum on the net censoring images is NOT anything that any owner of a forum wants to get into, we will censor the written word on attacks and insults on people though. Like anything else turn the dial or turn the page if it is something that offends you but I would not even put a corporate warning on this image for viewing. I think we tend to forget a look or a certain look may mean different things to different people. We all have our opinions on what we like or dislike and that is what makes the world go round but I will not censor images that are intended to be art. The key here is the intention is art not porno or any other weird crap going on. Post this same image on any photo forum and no owner will censor this image. Sorry folks there is a line in the sand but this is not approaching it. I also have yet to receive one complaint either. Many images in the gallery that represent the nude figure. Never a complaint there as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    What the model was terrified of perhaps was that her abdomen might not show too well in the rather unusual pose (for her).
    In this series we were trying to do a range of emotionally charged images with little variation on pose other than facial expressions. I have one with a smiling face which didn't work as well.
    I don't understand your question concerning before or after, this was somewhere about 2/3 through the shoot.
    As for cheap or sick voyeurism...
    Webster's definition[1] certainly seems clear. The image certainly doesn't do it for me, are you saying that it does it for you?
    thanks
    -bob

    [1] http://www.websters-online-dictionar...voyeurism.html
    Bob,

    some people are offended by this and it doesn't help for you to belittle that fact -- especially as you are a moderator.

    am i personally offended? no, but i have a very thick skin. i very much appreciate them sticking up for what they feel is exploitation and, yes, terror can be construed.

    i can totally respect your right to post this photo in the forum, but i also respect people's wish not to either see this and/or have their pictures associated with it.

    is it to much to ask that it be put in a separate thread with perhaps a warning? i have seen this in the other forums and i think it is in good taste.

    art is art is art. i am not one for censorship. but i do demand respect.

    you've touched a nerve here and for you to laugh it off is very disrespectful of members here. that to me, more than the picture itself, is what i find disturbing.

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    think everybody is overreacting here.

    This is not pornography... its not even mild erotica... its a nude portrait

    Its an interesting shot both in technical terms and in subject matter. Unlike a lot of shots posted here it involves a subject that I assume was a willing participant in the act of creating a photograph. I am assuming that Bob has all the appropriate model release documentation

    Its a shot that obviously has provoked a reaction in certain members of the forum - and they are entitled to their opinions.

    but this is an open and i thought tolerant forum. This photograph is no different from imagery i see in advertising on the street and glossy magazine available on the lower shelves of your local newsagent.

    If this photograph was to be some how suppressed... then I would have to consider my continued involvement with this forum

    K

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Cam issue is I open a forum or thread just for that than I will get bombarded with porno. It's opening a pandora's box if you know what I mean.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    think everybody is overreacting here.

    This is not pornography... its not even mild erotica... its a nude portrait

    Its an interesting shot both in technical terms and in subject matter. Unlike a lot of shots posted here it involves a subject that I assume was a willing participant in the act of creating a photograph. I am assuming that Bob has all the appropriate model release documentation

    Its a shot that obviously has provoked a reaction in certain members of the forum - and they are entitled to their opinions.

    but this is an open and i thought tolerant forum. This photograph is no different from imagery i see in advertising on the street and glossy magazine available on the lower shelves of your local newsagent.

    If this photograph was to be some how suppressed... then I would have to consider my continued involvement with this forum

    K

    I do agree Kevin. This is no different than many images out there
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Youve really managed to capture this girl looking terrified bob,is this one of a series,is this the before or after?and Jack,Id be interested what it is that you* really* like about this cheap and in this case rather sick voyerism.
    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Bob,

    some people are offended by this and it doesn't help for you to belittle that fact -- especially as you are a moderator.

    am i personally offended? no, but i have a very thick skin. i very much appreciate them sticking up for what they feel is exploitation and, yes, terror can be construed.

    i can totally respect your right to post this photo in the forum, but i also respect people's wish not to either see this and/or have their pictures associated with it.

    is it to much to ask that it be put in a separate thread with perhaps a warning? i have seen this in the other forums and i think it is in good taste.

    art is art is art. i am not one for censorship. but i do demand respect.

    you've touched a nerve here and for you to laugh it off is very disrespectful of members here. that to me, more than the picture itself, is what i find disturbing.
    I do respect those who have other opinions, as as for the part of belittling those who do not agree with my point of view, perhaps I did go a bit far on that, but I was puzzled by the use of words in the complaint and tried to answer a question contained in that complaint as well as what I felt was an unfair characterization.

    On another image posted, there was a comment "subtle as a hammer" and although I understand the idiom, my PM asking for explanation as to why was responded to with a picture of a hammer. That surely did not help me figure it out.

    I am circulating an email amongst the owners and moderators of this forum and hope to get some consensus amongst ourselves on this sort of thing. I have street images taken that same day in Brussels with a department store display filled with imagery that far exceeded the line compared with what I had posted.
    My intent surely was not to create controversy here.
    Peace (I hope)
    -bob

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    Re: NSFW Nicole Nr. 2

    Art is art, it's been twenty centuries that artists try to figure women AND MEN body : statues, painting, photographs, etc... Everybody is nude under his/her clothes, no ?
    I find your model nice, your composition is working the picture is good and I can't see no perversion in such a shot, I like it.
    Without any controversy, i would like this place to stay artistically open minded and personnaly I don't like the kinds of comments tending to censor such a picture.

    If one can not post a fine picture of a nude man or woman in this forum I'll have to leave this place.

    It is not the first time Bob has to hear such comments on his photo.
    Bob I am definitively on your side. Freedom and respect.
    Stéphane.
    ---------------------------------
    http://stef974.tumblr.com/
    ---------------------------------

  13. #13
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    Re: How about more and more fun with Canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Bob,

    some people are offended by this and it doesn't help for you to belittle that fact -- especially as you are a moderator.

    am i personally offended? no, but i have a very thick skin. i very much appreciate them sticking up for what they feel is exploitation and, yes, terror can be construed.

    i can totally respect your right to post this photo in the forum, but i also respect people's wish not to either see this and/or have their pictures associated with it.

    is it to much to ask that it be put in a separate thread with perhaps a warning? i have seen this in the other forums and i think it is in good taste.

    art is art is art. i am not one for censorship. but i do demand respect.

    you've touched a nerve here and for you to laugh it off is very disrespectful of members here. that to me, more than the picture itself, is what i find disturbing.
    On the contrary cam, I don't find anything disrespectful here when people can express their opinions, hopefully as photographers we HAVE the right to dismiss them too! There are plenty of forums out there for those with such values, they don't HAVE to hang around here if they're not open to other people's artistic expression. What get's me about nei1 isn't his values but the fact that he demands everyone else to accept them too, that to me is DISRESPECTFUL and unacceptable!
    Last edited by ddk; 9th November 2009 at 04:32.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW Nicole Nr. 2

    I like this shot Bob. I especially like the skin tones and wonderful blacks. If I have any critique, it is only that I would like to have seen the model's left foot completely in the frame.

    As for the rest of the discussion, I think kevinparis nailed it fairly well. And if I were a moderator, I'd give real consideration to the idea of calling Nei1's bluff.

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    Re: NSFW Nicole Nr. 2

    +1
    That was my reaction when this surfaced also.

    LJ

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    As for the rest of the discussion, I think kevinparis nailed it fairly well. And if I were a moderator, I'd give real consideration to the idea of calling Nei1's bluff.

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Hmmm... tempest in a teacup. Nice image Bob.

    Cheers,

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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Really like the tonality, pose and expression. If I were to offer a critique I would have liked to have her whole foot in the image rather than cut off at the toes.

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    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Bob,

    this picture is FANTASTIC.
    It has style, expression, feelings and it tells a story. The modell is FIRST CLASS acting. This is great cinema.
    I love the picture. Well done.
    Hope to see more of this kind.
    __________________________________________________
    Part of the Wonderland
    see more ( NSFW ) on : http://www.klaweide.de

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    Subscriber Member Corlan F.'s Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Obviously the forces of obscurantism are still well alive and survived the ages.
    Interesting to see the beast breathing again even on a typical art oriented media.

    Re the photo, like Tim and kweide the cut off toes are a tad disturbing, but OTOH maybe it's part of the uneaseness conveyed by the image. In that case, maybe a slightly bolder crop would be in order?

    A question related to processing : how much skin surface blur did you apply on the body here ?
    It bestows an immediate contrast with the right hand (and feet), and a slight unrealistic touch -which incidentally plays a part in making it more artistic than "voyeuristic", without the aid of accessories of oversophisticated / unreal lighting. Or maybe it's just me

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Corlan F. View Post
    Obviously the forces of obscurantism are still well alive and survived the ages.
    Interesting to see the beast breathing again even on a typical art oriented media.

    Re the photo, like Tim and kweide the cut off toes are a tad disturbing, but OTOH maybe it's part of the uneaseness conveyed by the image. In that case, maybe a slightly bolder crop would be in order?

    A question related to processing : how much skin surface blur did you apply on the body here ?
    It bestows an immediate contrast with the right hand (and feet), and a slight unrealistic touch -which incidentally plays a part in making it more artistic than "voyeuristic", without the aid of accessories of oversophisticated / unreal lighting. Or maybe it's just me
    Actually no "literal" blur, although I did touch up a few usual blemishes and softened a skin crease, did some local tone compensation in areas for which the model was thankful, and brightened the face a bit. Most of the effect was the conversion curve which imparted clipped blacks, a high contrast dark-midtone and a long soft shoulder to the highlights combined with north light coming through a seven foot tall sheer curtained window (a seven foot softbox if you will).
    The clipped toe (model not curve) was inadvertent and I thought about the possibility of restoring it just a bit, but then the confinement of the crop I thought added to mood so I did not bother or perhaps it was just sloth.
    The model is an actress and is one of the few I have worked with that can emote on demand. The demand in this case was "vulnerable".
    -bob

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    Super Duper
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Bob

    Great shot! The only comment would be the clipped toe.

    Don
    Don Libby
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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    I will hunt around and maybe I can find it.
    -bob

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Toe extra carpet can be found using a layer, a careful selection and a slight bit of CAS
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Toe extra carpet can be found using a layer, a careful selection and a slight bit of CAS
    Sort of what I was thinking, except that I think I have another shot with that extra carpet in it.
    Actually, the toe is complete, just nicked a bit of the shoe.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Second try.
    I cloned over some carpet, repaired the toe, and changed the crop.

    I think that this is done.
    -bob

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    MUCH better
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Her nose is bugging me. Just need a little tinny bit of cloning on the end of her nose the bump. Okay that is being really picky
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    aren't noses supposed to be picky?

    :-)
    K

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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Nice. Now print it big. I could have used a little more room in front of her (somewhere between the first crop and this one), but this is a stunning image as is.

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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    FWIW (since often those who are offended often are more vocal than the larger majority that is not), I think the image is in excellent taste and is well done. But I would agree that it can't hurt to keep images that contain any nudity on separate threads which are marked NSFW (as has been done here). After all if you're in a public place, or in an office setting, you don't want to risk offending those around you or getting into some time wasting debate.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Agree Doug just put a warning on the thread start like Bob did here by leading by example. This section of the forum is a nice place for that I think.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    FWIW (since often those who are offended often are more vocal than the larger majority that is not), I think the image is in excellent taste and is well done. But I would agree that it can't hurt to keep images that contain any nudity on separate threads which are marked NSFW (as has been done here). After all if you're in a public place, or in an office setting, you don't want to risk offending those around you or getting into some time wasting debate.
    I agree. This approach is mutually respectful IMO.

    As others mention, the "replacement" of the clipped toe is very helpful.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Thanks folks,
    The toe surgery was painless and performed in a Japanese hotel room with only mini-bar whiskey as anesthesia, except I used a mouse instead of my usual pen for the task which is always a bit painful for me.

    I think I like this crop due to the flow from corner to corner.

    The thread was marked NSFW mostly due to reaction of this image and others in the past, but site policies differ from site to site, and in at least one other, this particular image would have qualified without the warning.

    We have a pretty diverse audience here, so I expect that a cautious approach to marking rather then attempts to "push the limits" might be the best.

    Consider also that nudity, frank or implied, alone should not be sole the criteria as there are many other images that could offend some. Violence, gore (Including Al) and suffering might well be so marked.
    -bob

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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    Well done on the toe recovery. I like the pic, and would like to think more are welcome.

  35. #35
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    I think this pix has a Beautiful 'ALLURE' about it....

    Admittedly there were one or two
    I have NOT liked in your 'Naked Girl' series...
    I found them a tad distasteful
    but then again perhaps the models & Your Vision
    were not up to 'my standard' of Beauty & Art.....

    As I woman I am not offended
    I can choose to Look or Not Look at them
    How about Bob just keeping all the pixs under one Heading /Thread:
    'Artful Nudes'...

    I'm sure most of the men here will have their Tails Wagging...
    Best- H
    Last edited by helenhill; 14th November 2009 at 04:31.

  36. #36
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    A few people have mentioned 'Terrified' OR 'Vulnerable' as her Expression
    but I do not see this at all

    To me her facial 'Expression' is one of Assuredness & a touch of Sultry
    Nicole is playing w/ You & the Camera....
    As for body expression : to me she seems comfortable in the Nude
    perhaps her left hand wrapped towards her back could be perceived as abit Akward
    but the Overall VIBE of the Shot
    is Tres Atmospheric ...a Beautiful allure

    I don't know how Women wear those Heels,
    maybe thats why She's seated....
    Last edited by helenhill; 14th November 2009 at 08:16.

  37. #37
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: NSFW ( Not safe for work) Nicole Nr. 2

    One thing that I find interesting about this image is the number of different opinions about her expression.
    It IS sort of ambiguous and many viewers tend to read something of themselves into ambiguous images.

    As for those shoes, honestly I have no idea. I hear complaints about high heels, especially heels that high, by their wearers but I can almost bet that there will be a pair of something similar in the wardrobe bags of most models and rarely anything significantly more conservative.

    Some have told me that they feel the need to extend their leg length by using heels. Me, I think that they are way too much and prefer that feet be as bare as the rest
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 17th November 2009 at 00:03.

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