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Thread: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Twice in the past two weeks have been screwed by two members of GETdpi (asiafish and viablex1) with long established recorded of positive participation . They both made WTB requests and I just happened to have what they were looking for . We agreed upon a price and terms . They offered and I excepted . Because in one case I was out of town and in another home with a temp of 100 ....we agreed that I would photograph ,send PayPal invoice and ship. date specific ..only 2-3 days out .

    They both agreed and indicated no problem with the agreement . After photographing the lens and packaging I made contact ..preparing to ship next available day (monday ).

    I get a message back ...I found a better deal and went with it . Asiafish ever pointed out how happy he was the other lens !

    WTF ....in my book this isn t OK .

    I wonder how they would feel if I said I found another buyer (after I had promised the lens ).

    Asiafish and Viablex1 .....GFY.
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Twice in the past two weeks have been screwed by two members of GETdpi (asiafish and viablex1) with long established recorded of positive participation . They both made WTB requests and I just happened to have what they were looking for . We agreed upon a price and terms . They offered and I excepted . Because in one case I was out of town and in another home with a temp of 100 ....we agreed that I would photograph ,send PayPal invoice and ship. date specific ..only 2-3 days out .

    They both agreed and indicated no problem with the agreement . After photographing the lens and packaging I made contact ..preparing to ship next available day (monday ).

    I get a message back ...I found a better deal and went with it . Asiafish ever pointed out how happy he was the other lens !

    WTF ....in my book this isn t OK .

    I wonder how they would feel if I said I found another buyer (after I had promised the lens ).





    Asiafish and Viablex1 .....GFY.

    I had a similar experience. i sold a piece of camera gear, he paid me by Paypal. I shipped the item by UPS and then he turns around and says he found a better deal and wants tho cancel the transaction.( within half hour of the UPS picking up the package).
    The item was at UPS loading docks in Phoenix and was able to retrieve the item before it left the city, and return the buyers money.
    I had to spend half a day in retrieving the package. All this for nothing.

    R----
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by rollei8is View Post
    I had a similar experience. i sold a piece of camera gear, he paid me by Paypal. I shipped the item by UPS and then he turns around and says he found a better deal and wants tho cancel the transaction.( within half hour of the UPS picking up the package).
    The item was at UPS loading docks in Phoenix and was able to retrieve the item before it left the city, and return the buyers money.
    I had to spend half a day in retrieving the package. All this for nothing.

    R----
    When I sell something I bend over backwards to be sure the buyer is satisfied . I had a Leica M8 that had problems 6 months after the original sale ..onto a 2nd buyer . Problem with the sensor wasn t caught by me or the original buyer ...we agreed it was probably there from the beginning . I paid $700 and the original buyer paid $700 to make the new owner whole .

    When you commit to a buy ....people rely on your word .

    I am really disturbed that this happened twice on GETdpi from long time members .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    When I sell something I bend over backwards to be sure the buyer is satisfied .
    Speaking of which, did you ever get the Cube Case? I also care about good transactions.

    --Matt

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Speaking of which, did you ever get the Cube Case? I also care about good transactions.

    --Matt
    I did Matt ..been out with cold since I got back from my trip . Case was a very nice gift ..hope I am in a position to return the gesture .

    Roger
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    My point is that you should not require anything other than a “promise” . The amounts are so small in most cases that there is really no recourse . When someone posts a WTB and makes an offer ..followed by agreement on terms and conditions ..pictures,payment method ,shipping and timetable .....thats a handshake in my book .

    Sure things come up ..in my case I was out off town and the other home sick as a dog . In both cases we agreed upon the timetable (a few days ) and was told no problem . To throw that out because you might find a better deal is unacceptable behavior .

    Both the sellers mentioned thought it was perfectly OK that they went with a better offer and saw absolutely nothing wrong with backing out of the deal . No one likes to feel slighted in the process and I am not happy .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    This happens when buying a house in England (but not Scotland or N Ireland). A price is agreed, but the seller then gets and accepts a higher offer. It's called 'gazumping'; it is not illegal in England.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    If you didn't list these items specifically for sale, then I'm not sure why this is such a big deal. Perhaps the potential buyer should've asked if you could match the better price, if not, let it go. Also, this should be posted in the feedback section.

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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    ...I'm not sure why this is such a big deal.
    Says more about you than the thread.

    One's word for centuries represented a contract ... between seller and buyer. Has been honored on this site
    since I joined.

    Integrity is demonstrated when it exacts a cost ... foregoing a better deal because you have committed to
    the present one. Or paying for a new sensor months after the sale.

    Not sure what the lesson learned is here ... there will always be individuals who justify their immoral economic
    behavior. Nice to identify them.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    God ... feeling older by the day.

    I hope that you can find someone who will appreciate your ethic and integrity Roger.

    Regards,

    Bob
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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Says more about you than the thread.

    One's word for centuries represented a contract ... between seller and buyer. Has been honored on this site
    since I joined.

    Integrity is demonstrated when it exacts a cost ... foregoing a better deal because you have committed to
    the present one. Or paying for a new sensor months after the sale.

    Not sure what the lesson learned is here ... there will always be individuals who justify their immoral economic
    behavior. Nice to identify them.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    God ... feeling older by the day.

    I hope that you can find someone who will appreciate your ethic and integrity Roger.

    Regards,

    Bob
    Does anyone in this sausagefest actually understand how comnerce wotks.

    Any buyer is allowed to change their mind thats not immoral thats reality.

    I do thinks its bull to buy something let the seller pay for something then put it all back on the seller.

    I think the real issue here is its a,sore spot for some reason heck i dont know why

    Also dont be so greedy to sell something unless you can close the deal

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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    One's word should be a valuable consideration. A deposit would have sufficed as a commitment and show good faith negotiations going forward. . Unanticipated events such as deadlines or pricing should be considered for WTB items if more than one person responds to an ad. Ideally, it would have been nice for the potential buyers to honor the sale, or at least negotiate a new price, but does it merit the value of tarnishing a forum member(s) reputation for being prudent? I once sold a Rolleiflex 3.5F that had sticky shutters and the buyer complained albeit, respectfully. I offered to have him send it to Harry Fleenor for a complete CLA on my cost. I had no obligation to do so because it was an "as is" sale, but because the buyer was respectful and grateful, he now has an almost new Rolleiflex. Moral integrity intact.
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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    On a trading desk, where deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars happen regularly, the moment someone says "Done", the deal is binding. That's why trading desk lines are recorded.

    Anything else is dishonest.

    --Matt (Yes, I was an options trader)
    mattgraysonphoto.com
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    Does anyone in this sausagefest actually understand how comnerce wotks.

    Any buyer is allowed to change their mind thats not immoral thats reality. put it all back on the seller.
    Sounds like your view of the world and ethics may differ from the OP and many of us.

    Glad that you have the imprimatur of NW Law ... the paradigm of moral ethics.

    Enjoy your new new thing and glide past this somewhat uncomfortable social point.

    I imagine that my OT tutor from Oxford would be less than satisfied with your logic.

    Just sayin ...

    And it is a new new world ... God help us.

    Bob
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    Does anyone in this sausagefest actually understand how comnerce wotks.

    Any buyer is allowed to change their mind thats not immoral thats reality.

    I do thinks its bull to buy something let the seller pay for something then put it all back on the seller.

    I think the real issue here is its a,sore spot for some reason heck i dont know why

    Also dont be so greedy to sell something unless you can close the deal
    Your are proving my exact point ...a distorted view of ethical behavior . The sore spot is that you totally don t understand the issue . When dealing with established members of a community ...you should expect that both parties are trying to work together to create a successful transaction . The win win concept to state it plainly . I trust members of this community to treat me fairly ..trust is the key element . My dealings with both you and Asiafish proved to be unsatisfactory and I was caught by surprise at the callous manner you defended backing our of our arrangements.


    We agreed upon on the details ....price,terms , TIMETABLE etc . I explained that being quite sick I needed a few extra days to bill and ship . You agreed and indicated you would be out of town in any event so no problem. There was no greed involved ...I don t need the money and I sure don t need the bull I received from you . You gave your word that we had a deal and you argue that an email is not a contract ? That finding a better deal is a valid reason to “change your mind” ..then you comment “when you snooze you lose” .

    The sore spot should be obvious .....I spend an hour finding the lens, photographing it: for you and intending to send you an invoice .....only to find out I wasted my time so you could what ...save a few $ . The whole deal was $840 .

    Hopefully you now have the reputation you earned .

    In fairness I did tell you to Go F*** Yourself...which in this case I feel fully justified in expressing .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    In my forty-two years of banking, I saw fluid ethics at play every day. In my latter years of work, I gave the following example to first-timer borrowers. The example was the fact that one's word should be sufficient to be morally binding in all cases. However, a promise or handshake is an even greater moral responsibility. Finally, a signature becomes the highest moral binding one can offer. More often than I like to remember, all three examples were breached regularly. But, toward the end of my career, I was still able to make decisions based on my optimistic view that there were still many men of honor on whom I could rely. It seems that the optimism I showed is more and more shown to be at odds with current trends. Sadly, when it comes to money, rationalization and contortion tends to be more and more of a trend. So sad.

    Greg
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    I think the real issue here is its a,sore spot for some reason heck i dont know why

    Also dont be so greedy to sell something unless you can close the deal
    To a certain extent I get your concern ... but this is not the wild west.

    Actually a small community of like minded individuals who strive to lift up each other and
    appreciate if not authenticate their attempts at art.

    Not eBay ... not Amazn ...

    So if you play by NW Law rules ... may find yourself without a core group ... may not matter to you.

    Honestly,

    A genuine apology to the seller that you have found something closer to your heart ... would work wonders.
    As it is you have reneged on a promise and then blamed the other party.

    Imagine that his ire would be mollified with a simple "Sorry, forgive my transgression."

    You can integrate into this community or distance yourself ... your call ... and invoking your wife's training, expertise
    may not be that helpful.

    Find a better forum on the web ... not likely.

    Discernment is not a license to judge ... just an opportunity to intercede.

    Hope you both can find a resolution to this ....

    Bob
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    All excuses aside from non-buyers, I know 2 users here that I will not communicate with since I know all I need to know about one of them from comments made in this very thread.
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Hmm, perhaps it was more instinctive than actual reasoning on the potential buyers end. Reading these responses i'd say this belies something more than just sour grapes.
    You may be correct ... it is either a Ship of Fools or a community of committed individuals lifting each other up.

    I prefer the latter ... and have to say I don't have a dog in this race.

    Regards,

    Bob
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Apologize for the run on ...

    Roger ... I do not even attempt to sell anything at this point ... time to move it I send it to Sean at CameraWest.

    Been doing this for 18 years ... the small difference in price is not worth the angst or disappointment. And CW has
    never disappointed me.

    One phone call ... done.

    Let them buy it at retail ...

    Bob

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    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    I was born and raised in West Texas where a man's word was his bond. Moved to Dallas in the early 70's and had an interesting experience with reality. Nothing new under the sun...
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    I think it's safe to say that we all have reasonable hopes and expectations in regards to transactions on this forum. I'm just not sure airing them in this manner in an open forum with this extent of vitriol is reasonable either. Then it just becomes like all the other forums.
    Last edited by jdphoto; 2 Weeks Ago at 19:20.

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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    I think it's safe to say that we all have reasonable hopes and expectations in regards to transactions on this forum. I'm just not sure airing them in this manner in an open forum with this extent of vitriol is reasonable either. Then it just becomes like all the other forums.
    Hopes and expectations in regard to transactions aren't being aired. One member's actual experience is being shared, however.

    Airing one's experience with another member in a gear transaction is helpful to me, enabling a more informed choice of members with whom I'd want to deal. I don't see any issue with the subject or tone of the OP, the latter judgment being subjective of course. Backing out of an agreed deal is bad form, whatever the details. What should have occurred? The buyer should have bought the lens, as agreed. Having found a lens more to his liking, he should have put the newly purchased, less preferred lens up for sale himself, and bought the preferred lens. Simple. Straight-forward. Good to one's word. Didn't happen. Glad I know.
    --Mike

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    On a trading desk, where deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars happen regularly, the moment someone says "Done", the deal is binding. That's why trading desk lines are recorded.

    Anything else is dishonest.

    --Matt (Yes, I was an options trader)
    Exactly. Integrity is everything.

    Graham (who designed and built options/derivatives trader workstations and feeds )
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Personally, I think that if you make a verbal/email/chat deal with someone then you should have the personal integrity to see it through unless there's some unforeseen reason why you couldn't complete the deal such as a change of real circumstances or so (damn you, Mr. Tax Man!!). Just because you found a slightly better deal elsewhere after closing the deal shouldn't be a justifiable reason for breaking the trust of a deal IMHO.

    But hey, I guess I'm old school and like to sleep well at night.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Personally, I think that if you make a verbal/email/chat deal with someone then you should have the personal integrity to see it through unless there's some unforeseen reason why you couldn't complete the deal such as a change of real circumstances or so (damn you, Mr. Tax Man!!). Just because you found a slightly better deal elsewhere after closing the deal shouldn't be a justifiable reason for breaking the trust of a deal IMHO.

    But hey, I guess I'm old school and like to sleep well at night.
    I completely agree. It is refreshing to find folks actively supporting personal integrity.

    The internet takes away face-to-face interaction. Some hide behind anonymity to engage in practices that would not fly in direct interaction.

    Each time this happens it chips away at bonds which hold a group together. It is good for the community to bring attention to those not living up to the social contract.

    I think it is better to have benefits that a strong community brings rather than having the freedom of action that a me-first attitude gives rise to.

    Seeing community benefits erode because someone puts their own (small) profit first is disappointing. If it happens often, the community is at risk.

    Thanks for standing up on this.
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    I am all for integrity and honesty in dealing with others.
    It is also only fair that we give the other party involved
    an unbiased hearing.

    It has been my experience that honest mistakes or
    misunderstandings can happen.

    An honest person shall realize if a mistake has been
    committed and shall take steps to avoid it in future.

    Continually chastising a person does not serve any further
    useful purpose.

    I sincerely believe people are honest on this forum.
    And hope it stays that way.
    koffee & kamera
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    I am all for integrity and honesty in dealing with others.
    It is also only fair that we give the other party involved
    an unbiased hearing.

    It has been my experience that honest mistakes or
    misunderstandings can happen.

    An honest person shall realize if a mistake has been
    committed and shall take steps to avoid it in future.

    Continually chastising a person does not serve any further
    useful purpose.

    I sincerely believe people are honest on this forum.
    And hope it stays that way.
    I hope I made it clear in my post that there was an misunderstanding . I believe that when you agree to a transaction (and all the details) and confirm the timetable to close the deal ....that you should do what you can to follow thru .

    The difference of opinion was that both of the named individuals believe that its OK to find a better deal until money is exchanged . In essence nothing except the exchange of money can be relied upon . This is exactly how it works on some of the other forums .

    There was absolutely no difference of opinion or misunderstanding of the facts .

    To have this occur with two different ,long standing contributors is a real problem for me . Hopefully they both will find another forum which is more in line with their ethics .

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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    Does anyone in this sausagefest actually understand how comnerce wotks.

    Any buyer is allowed to change their mind thats not immoral thats reality.

    I do thinks its bull to buy something let the seller pay for something then put it all back on the seller.

    I think the real issue here is its a,sore spot for some reason heck i dont know why

    Also dont be so greedy to sell something unless you can close the deal
    Viablex-5
    Actually your point of view is one of a loser, or should I say Dick a real man gives his word and he lives with it. I can’t be on your side from your response above because I’ve been in business for 50 years and heard most stories including yours. Yours is one of a person who doesn’t belong on this board, I’d be willing to bet 95% of the OP agree, yours is a story of a hustler and a bad one at that.
    Move on the door broke your toe.

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    Re: Negative Feedback and Lesson Learned

    What were the items being sold? Just curious.

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