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Thread: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Hey guys, normally don't post this kind of stuff but there is just too many rumors, the new Canon line will be indeed a "IV" not a "V" line, and is already out testing.

    Firts the 1D version woith the 1.3 crop sensor, then the 1Ds with the FF sensor, as usual, but then again, you really never know till the specs areufficially released

    Enjoy this night video Video: http://www.vimeo.com/7152063

    Here are the true specs and first review of the camera: http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1256011201.html

    ..and here: http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1256011201.html

    CANON OFFICIAL PAGE IS UP!! http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=19584
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 26th October 2009 at 17:46.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Well the name stayed in sequence (MkIII to MkIV), and the specs are a bit different from the other rumor, but at least they are the real deal and it will be shipping end of December. Happy New Year for some folks for sure!!

    Waiting to see how the high ISO shots look, but the ISO 6400 used in the video is pretty darn impressive and clean. The extra resolution should be very nice also, even on what has been the speed demon camera in the Canon line.

    Will probably be putting a couple older bodies up for sale very soon ;-)

    LJ

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    I think canon did everything right. The part which surprised me most was the use of the digi 4 instead of a new 5. Perhaps that one has to wait for the 1DsMk4.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Will it be any better than the Nikon D3s?

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Still I'm amazed all this sort of stuff can be done with a DSLR,wether Canon or Nikon.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Now I have to wait for the Nikon D4X and use the D3s for the fast stuff!

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    I think nobody can tell which in the end is better. Just from the technical stuff the Nikon should be better. I mean it is 1.0 with 12Mp against 1.3 with 16 or I think 8.6 against 5.7 in pixel size. If Canon really managed to beat the D3s in terms of noise than I have to bow my head. That would also mean that we could have a 30-36 Mp 1DsMk4 next year with lower noise compared to the current 1Ds. That would be, impressive and the death for my S2 dream ^^

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Looks very nice. Glad Canon is getting this one out sooner than I thought and so close after the 7d. Does this mean that the 1ds4 will 32MP (2x16MP of the 1d4) as has been the case? Or maybe 36MP(2x18MP of 7D)?
    Wonder when the 1ds4 will be announced now?

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    i'm pretty sure the 1DsMk4 will have around 28-32 Mp, I think the reason for that is that Canon will try to improve DR and noise in addition to MP. So going to the current maximum of around 37 Mp won't really happen. The step would be way to big. (from 21 to 37)

  10. #10
    jamie123
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    A bit off topic but Vincent Laforet's videos are a good example to show why a good photographer is not necessarily a good cinematographer. All his videos are just a series of "cool shots" but are clearly lacking in regards to storytelling. And the cliché elements like a guy doing Parkour, a girl holding a balloon and the shameless attempt to give it a Lynchian "vibe" aren't helping either.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    I can't post a link right now but the press release is out on DPReview...

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethmeier View Post
    Will it be any better than the Nikon D3s?
    For anyone with many Canon lenses and other accessories as part of the system they shoot with, yes, it will be better than a D3s.

    LJ

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    I don't think most of Canon's lenses are up to the task of a 30+ megapixel camera. There might be a couple of exceptions. The S2 lenses were designed specifically for the large sensor. And yes, they're MUCH more expensive.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Brad,
    Aside from Christopher's comments about the S2 slipping away in his dreams, not sure what the S2 or lenses matter much here. The lenses will not fit the Canon camera anyway. On the flip side, should Canon be able to put out a 30+MP sensor in a hopefully forthcoming 1DsMkIV, it will close the gap with the S2 quite a bit. Canon has been revamping some of its lenses, and they are looking to be quite a bit better, plus covering some nice ranges on the wider end with amazingly fast glass that seems to be delivering. Will it match or exceed the S2 glass? Probably not. However at one third the price, and coupled with some seriously technologically advanced camera bodies and new sensors, the differences in overall look and performance may not be so far apart.

    LJ

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    LJ,
    I do think Canon and Nikon are closing the gap on MF, but MF keeps evolving too. Now all we need is more cash!

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    The 35mm system will soon be maxed out no doubt, but there still a little room, and till then manufacturers will take advantage of the market and push for it, giving us increase little buy little and keep us hooked to buy new toys

    Yes as a Writer/Director/Producer I agree that a Photographer not necessarily can be a good Cinematographer, but those shots even so been a series of compositions do represent what Canon wanted people to see, a dark night scene shot with available lighting at ISO 3200 & 6400.

    The lenses of the FF Canon 35mm can resolve far more then the current 21MP and it is not really about Power of resolve as far as MP is concerned, but it is only a matter of what CIRCLE they cover, and some just about cover the 36mm of the FF Sensor and for this CA, Vignetting and other imperfections are seen.

    Agree totally that Leica's new S lenses will surely bring a new level of Image quality and detail to the mix, but then again Leica has always been at the very top of Glass manufacturing, even in the Cinema world.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    For sure. There still does seem to be quite a difference in the rate of that evolution between DSLRs and MF. In this case, the DSLR guys seem to be chugging along at a much better technology development clip than MF. The S2 has a lot of neat stuff, but it is already a couple of years old in comparison to things like the AF systems, hight ISO handling, processing speeds, etc., that we see with Canon and Nikon higher end stuff. I do not really expect DSLR captures to really exceed what one can get with a good MF system, but the improvements and other offering on the DSLR front are looking quite a bit more attractive, and when you figure in price.....a lot more attractive still, to possibly get results that are quite acceptable, except maybe for a few special needs.

    LJ

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Yes unfortunately Leica did take so long to bring the S 2 to life that by the time it will , it will already be two years old technology, and companies like Canon and Nikon will continue to bring very small increases to their systems, never really giving us what we want at once, as that will not be a good business model for them, sad in off but quite true.

    For this I just think that it is just but imminent a serious changes of heart rom many Photographers I know both in the 35mm and MF world, which will move to RED systems, which offer unprecedented level of specs in both worlds, but especially so in their MF model with the EPIC 645.

    Obviously each system has not only to be considered buy what it offers but also by how it does it, and the type of body and lenses it offers, as to be able to chose such particular system based not only on image needs but on handling, fill on your hands, and many more aspects which all together brings one to the decision to go with one vs, the other.

    Any ways here is some sugar Kandy of things to come form RED, and will make a post on a section of tits own after my return from RED HQ in their Lake Forest location, also not to Hijack my own thread
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 3rd November 2010 at 05:58.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    It's interesting to me how all the hype, and the main discussion topic here, seems to be the high iso performance (and video). One of the major improvements over the mark III is the new and improved autofocus system they have incorporated. I know some pro sports shooters who have migrated to Nikon over the last few years because of the better auto focus, and I would think this camera will be an attempt to win them back over. Remember a few years back how the press pool at the major sporting events were a sea of white lenses, and now they are a sea of black lenses?

    Funny how nobody is talking about that. Guess autofocus is just old news these days....

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    I think nobody is talking about the new AF changes until they prove to be good. I think Canon learned a tough and expensive lesson, and that is why they are pushing the newly revised AF as the big thing here, but folks are being a lot more hesitant until it is clearly demonstrated that this new system works as Canon says this time.

    LJ

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    True, bat for myself I like to speak of what we no as a Fact, and we just HOPE that the AF is as good as they now say it is!

    I must say that I would have wished to see a superior improvement on the MP count at list to go over or same as the 7D 18MP, I believe this is surely not too much to ask!

    Secondly 10fps is surely fast but also NO improvement here is a bit of a disappointment giving current technology, at list 20fps would have been good.

    Burst capability have a very marginal improvement at that.


    Glad on the AF improvement, again we hope it will be, and the Screen rez. is also no bad, together with the ISO puts them at par with Nikon.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Just so you guys know, The link to the Video on Vimeo, has been Closed by CANON"S request!!

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    For anyone with many Canon lenses and other accessories as part of the system they shoot with, yes, it will be better than a D3s.

    LJ



    Thanks for bringing voice to the thoughts running in my head!

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post



    Thanks for bringing voice to the thoughts running in my head!
    In my own twisted way, I think of it as PC....not just "politically correct", meaning polite and such, but also "perspective control".....

    LJ

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    rbs100
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    if it focuses well (like it is supposed to) the camera should be a hit. but, there are numerous sports shooters, papers, etc that shelled out big bucks on the MK3 only to find out that many of them had issues. so folks who shoot sports professionally are going to sit and wait to see if this camera is the real deal. for those who sold off canon and switched to nikon, i seriously doubt many will come back--it cost just too much given the price of switching the long lenses. 16 mega pixels is better than 12. 1.3X is nice since you can never get 'enough' length when shooting sports. a standard memory buffer that equals a $500 upgrade on a D3 is great. in all ways this camera sounds very nice.

    i shot canon professionally for 6 years and loved every second of it--especially the long glass. the MK3 was my mistake--i upgraded two bodies. well i found out were the service center was real quick after having terrible yields due to focus. i bit the bullet and went nikon--and hated that everything was backwards and the long primes cost way too much. but i am not about to sell my gear to go back. maybe the next generation.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    rbs100,
    Sorry to hear about the focus issues you had with the MkIII. Switching back and forth is never a profitable activity. However, if you still shoot sports and use long lenses, going from Nikon to Canon is a much cheaper exercise than the other way.

    I had been seriously contemplating going to Nikon when there was not much improvement stuff coming from Canon for a while, and the D3 and D3x have been showing some good results. The 7D did not excite me, due to the too small crop of 1.6x, and lacking the higher end sealing of the 1-series bodies. I was not thrilled until Canon dropped the news of the 1DMkIV. I am eager to see if the AF is as good as they say. It was good to see that they went back to same coverage and control of the MkII cameras, and then improved the crosspoint selection. That sounds very encouraging, but as mentioned, there is a bit of gun-shy feeling, so I am waiting to see some folks put it through the paces, as well as using one myself before jumping to it. My feeling is that it might be done right this time, but will wait a bit to be more sure.

    LJ

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    LJL

    i would love to hear what you think of it. i will also 'trust' rob galbraith this time around as he did call the issue on the MK3 and i didn't believe his analysis at first. i have done the math (via excel) to determine what it would 'cost' me to go back to canon if the Mk 4 is the real deal. the one lens i do love in the nikon group is the 200-400. for daylight, it just kills having a fixed focal length for what i cover--PGA, MLB, football, Soccer. so that would be the hard one to give up and cause me to really think this through. but you are correct, canon has much better pricing on the telephotos than nikon. also you can rent that 800 for offshore surfing and other events requiring length. just have to wait until early next year to hear the verdict. my guess is the first wave will be all positive as it will come from folks who fork out $5K and want to believe the camera is great. in the second wave of user reviews is where the flaws will show up, if any.

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    2x2
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    LJ,
    I do think Canon and Nikon are closing the gap on MF, but MF keeps evolving too. Now all we need is more cash!
    MF is not really evolving all that much. Yes, the S2 promised to blow some dust off of the other player's offerings but with only two usable ISO stops I doubt it will make much of an impact.
    Don't tell me Leica is still working on improving the firmware to that regard. They still haven't figured that one out with their digital M line of cameras.
    Trust me, I'm a big Leica fan. Just not a fanboy who blindly ignores reality.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    so, i am hearing the camera is super. some of the agencies have a few already and the guys i know say they are pretty good.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Agree totally that Leica's new S lenses will surely bring a new level of Image quality and detail to the mix, but then again Leica has always been at the very top of Glass manufacturing, even in the Cinema world.
    When it comes to 35mm cameras Leica glass is ahead of the game by a huge margin. No matter how good the S2 lenses are or will be, when it comes to the MF market the difference won't be much at all. The level of quality from all MF companies is completely different to what's available in 35mm.

    Btw, Phase One made a deal with Schneider-Kreuznach and will be offering SK lenses soon for their new body. Frankly, as good Leica lenses are, compared to SK glass they are only a second choice.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by fultonpics View Post
    so, i am hearing the camera is super. some of the agencies have a few already and the guys i know say they are pretty good.
    My 7D's AF performance is much better than 1d2n at tracking birds in flight and I'm sure the 1d4 shares a lot of the same tracking functionality as the 7d so it should be excellent.Coupled with the new iFCL tech which nails the proper exposure much more by taking into account the color and also using the focusing sensors info to figure out what part of the scene is the subject and then calculating proper exposure for that part.
    Barring any screwups, the 1d4 should be an excellent camera.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by 2x2 View Post
    When it comes to 35mm cameras Leica glass is ahead of the game by a huge margin. No matter how good the S2 lenses are or will be, when it comes to the MF market the difference won't be much at all. The level of quality from all MF companies is completely different to what's available in 35mm.

    Btw, Phase One made a deal with Schneider-Kreuznach and will be offering SK lenses soon for their new body. Frankly, as good Leica lenses are, compared to SK glass they are only a second choice.
    Yes I'm aware of P1 various deals, and even so I don't pretend to know MF glass, as I don't I still firmly believe that Leica's glass will outperform anything out there as it has in any other format, to include the M and R mounts, and especially with Cine Glass, very complex type of glass, much more demanding then Still glass, so for this I say and believe that their new S2 glass, will be equally impressively Sharp, contrasty, and very well controlled in CA, pincushion distortions, Flaring and vignetting, yet again, I'm new to MF and have little to no experience with it, so so much to learn, and talking about Leica's new MF S2 glass only from experience on their other Glass.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne_s View Post
    My 7D's AF performance is much better than 1d2n at tracking birds in flight and I'm sure the 1d4 shares a lot of the same tracking functionality as the 7d so it should be excellent.Coupled with the new iFCL tech which nails the proper exposure much more by taking into account the color and also using the focusing sensors info to figure out what part of the scene is the subject and then calculating proper exposure for that part.
    Barring any screwups, the 1d4 should be an excellent camera.
    Newer technology always will bring added control and better capabilities then older model, in this case even a None Pro camera body can outperform in some aspects an older Pro body.


    The 1D IV however has a completely redesign focusing system and should be far superior to that of the 7D no doubt, or at list we hope so, Canon should have learned their lesson with the total initial failure of the 1D III AL Servo focus problem.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Not sure what you mean by far superior?
    The new 7D and 1d4 share the same new AF and intelligent metering technology with the same dual digic 4 chips. The differences are:
    1. more AF sensors 52 vs. 36
    2. cross pt sensors are functional with f5.6 or faster lenses vs. f2.8 for the 7d
    3. speed, 10fps vs. 8
    other non-AF related differences
    4. bigger pro tank body vs. smaller prosumer body
    5. dual card slots vs. single card slot
    6. 16MP APS-H sensor vs. 18MP APS-C sensor, better high iso less reach vs.more reach and poorer high iso.
    7. slightly faster flash sync speed
    8. $5k vs $1.7k
    What I was trying to say earlier is that the new AF and intelligent exposure metering system which will be common for 7d, 1d4, and 1ds4 looks excellent and has fixed some of the problems identified in the 1d3 AF system. The 7d has all the custom functions for AF like the 1 series.
    As LJ was saying earlier, the 7d is an interesting new unique dslr system which is between the 50d line and the 1d line. I have a 1ds3,5d, 1d2n and now a 7d. I understand wanting a pro body for out in the field. I think the 7d is a good option for a 2nd body, one which would give you much more reach which is needed for things like bird photography.I like carrying both a FF camera for landscape and a crop camera with fast AF for wildlife/birding. I went with the 7D instead of 1d4 gaining extra reach and saving $3.3k for use soon when I upgrade my 1ds3 to a 1ds4.With the recent shorter life cycle of pro dslrs, one has to take into account more the rapid depreciation of these bodies which is expensive. Not quite as bad as MFDB but then they get special upgrade path deals.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Only that in the 1D series bodies superiority is expected and a given since not only is a PRO body but you also pay TOP $$$ for it.

  36. #36
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Yes I'm aware of P1 various deals, and even so I don't pretend to know MF glass, as I don't I still firmly believe that Leica's glass will outperform anything out there as it has in any other format, to include the M and R mounts, and especially with Cine Glass, very complex type of glass, much more demanding then Still glass, so for this I say and believe that their new S2 glass, will be equally impressively Sharp, contrasty, and very well controlled in CA, pincushion distortions, Flaring and vignetting, yet again, I'm new to MF and have little to no experience with it, so so much to learn, and talking about Leica's new MF S2 glass only from experience on their other Glass.
    Again, in 35mm photography the differences in lens quality from brand to brand can be huge. It's relative easy for Leica glass to be far ahead.

    MF market is different. It is a very high quality and therefore high priced market to begin with. You won't find the same quality differences as in 35mm.
    S2 glass might be better than some but only marginally compared to the competition in the MF market. So marginally in fact that their higher price will be for many pros the deciding factor in not purchasing the S2. If one is already working with top notch products, it makes no sense to spend more money on something that might not be better by much if any at all.
    In addition to that comes the sensor situation. In MF the quality is so high to begin with that the weakest link becomes the sensor. Why spend more money on something that will out resolve the sensor and hence won't show a difference at all. In the 30 - 40MP range that is a possibility. Moving up to a P65+ digital back, current lenses won't be able to out resolve a sensor. But in that realm one can't use anything Leica anyway.

    Regarding cine lenses, it looks like Leica won't play a role. http://www.easymonitoring.ch/handels...bh_859115.aspx

    Addendum: Since as of now the S2 has only two usable ISO stops to offer, the quality of their glass becomes redundant. Who cares about excellent lenses when excessive noise will ruin the shot anyway?
    Last edited by 2x2; 2nd December 2009 at 12:34.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Wayne,
    I agree with your thinking about the 7D being a very good option. I do think about it as a possible second or third body to the 1DMkIV(s) I use for shooting, especially where a bit more reach may be desired. What I have found to be difficult (for me) is the switching functional design (control layout, etc.) between the 1-series and anything else Canon has in the heat of shooting. I really like the way the 1-series bodies operate, handle, and are laid out. Probably why I have three bodies now that I shoot all the time. As my type of shooting starts to change, I may just go with one 1DMkIV, the 1DsMkIV when it comes out, and maybe a 7d as the back-up in the bag. Truth be told, if I have three bodies, I will use all of them when shooting, so I may wind up with two 1DMkIV bodies again, as much to keep the familiarity of control layout, etc.

    I had seen a blog review by Jeff Ascough (link posted on DPReview), and he seems pretty impressed with the 1DMkIV, its new AF, better AWB and overall performance.....and he was shooting with a pre-production model at one of his weddings. Not that his testimony should influence one either way, but as a working pro wedding photog, he stakes a lot of his reputation on the performance of the gear he uses, much like many of us do, and so far, he is liking what Canon has done....maybe enough to not worry about the FF version....but my bet is the 1DsMkIV will be another tough camera to ignore ;-)

    LJ

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Yes, I find the 7D's AWB to be a lot more accurate than my 1ds3's especially in indoor lighting situations. I also feel that the colors are slightly better, most noticeably with better greens.
    The new 920,000 dot 3 inch displays are so much better than the old lower res ones.
    I understand preferring the same consistent layout of controls on the various cameras.
    The 7d has a new layout of controls and menu system with some nice programmable features.
    Not sure how close it is to the new 1d4. I think Canon has been working on making the layouts and UI alot more consistent between their product lines as this has been a common complaint from users for awhile now.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Yes I was informed of their decision, but fortunately there are many Leica used Cine glass to go around

    Yeah unfortunately the S2 is already two years behind, but the Glass still can bring use to the market, as adaptors will continue to be used by Pro's, but I definitely dislike using them, and like to choose a complete system.

    On my tests some MF lenses have actually shown less resolution then some 35mm lenses, sure the circle of light that they cover is off course much bigger, but they do suffer of the same issues as lenses in the 35mm format do, again, not discussing much here as I have very limited on field shooting with MF, but tests on a projector have shown the Leica S2 glass to be great, too bad if the S2 camera turns out not to be up to it, just remember that not every body shoots or cares for High ISO, I in fact in twenty and some years of Photography and Cinematography I never shot anything over 400 ISO.

  40. #40
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Yes I was informed of their decision, but fortunately there are many Leica used Cine glass to go around

    Yeah unfortunately the S2 is already two years behind, but the Glass still can bring use to the market, as adaptors will continue to be used by Pro's, but I definitely dislike using them, and like to choose a complete system.

    On my tests some MF lenses have actually shown less resolution then some 35mm lenses, sure the circle of light that they cover is off course much bigger, but they do suffer of the same issues as lenses in the 35mm format do, again, not discussing much here as I have very limited on field shooting with MF, but tests on a projector have shown the Leica S2 glass to be great, too bad if the S2 camera turns out not to be up to it, just remember that not every body shoots or cares for High ISO, I in fact in twenty and some years of Photography and Cinematography I never shot anything over 400 ISO.
    Well, I hope you tested digital MF lenses and not older film ones.
    Regarding your 400 ISO experience ... doesn't really matter. What matters is what Leica from the get-go (over a year ago) promised and still hasn't delivered upon. The first revolutionary MF camera that offers DSLR like easiness of use and can shoot up to ISO 1600.
    Having said that, to give respect where respect indeed is due, Leica did bring us something new and exciting. The S2 is the very first weather-sealed studio camera. Hurray!


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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    I would expect the S2 with its 6 micron ccd sensor pixels to have about the same high iso performance as the new Phase 65's which I think has the same pixel size.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne_s View Post
    I would expect the S2 with its 6 micron ccd sensor pixels to have about the same high iso performance as the new Phase 65's which I think has the same pixel size.
    The P65+ is a completely different animal, including pixel binning + technology.
    I think it is borderline ridiculous to compare a 37.5 MP sensor with a 65 MP one.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by 2x2 View Post
    Well, I hope you tested digital MF lenses and not older film ones.
    Regarding your 400 ISO experience ... doesn't really matter. What matters is what Leica from the get-go (over a year ago) promised and still hasn't delivered upon. The first revolutionary MF camera that offers DSLR like easiness of use and can shoot up to ISO 1600.
    Having said that, to give respect where respect indeed is due, Leica did bring us something new and exciting. The S2 is the very first weather-sealed studio camera. Hurray!

    Yes Phase one, Mamiya and Hasselblad new digital glass, actually I wasn't the one doing the test but I was present since my interest in moving to MF, test showed variations in all formats, and great resolution charts and performance coming form every manufacturer, also there was more then one copy for each lens, and in some cases copy variation was very evident.

    400 ISO was mentioned cause that is my sweet spot, or at list it has been for the past 20 years, in response to how little I had the need for a camera with High ISO, and for this it was not a concern for the S2 high ISO performance, and also we can't really be comparing a DSLR ISO to a MF.

    But now with the 1D IV my first high ISO capable DSLR I could come to enjoy shooting at high ISO and explore its functionality.

    S2, unfortunately is an other matter all together, possibly they will make up with the S3

    Any way for me I decided to wait till the release of the RED EPIC 645 to move to MF and have one in all Cine camera and Photo Camera, as I just can't justify 30 to 50K on a system I only use occasionally so till then Rental will do.

    BUt since I have a DF body on pre-order if I don't sale it I will end up getting a DB for it any ways, as I do love the difference in the MF IQ.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne_s View Post
    Not sure what you mean by far superior?
    The new 7D and 1d4 share the same new AF and intelligent metering technology with the same dual digic 4 chips. The differences are:
    1. more AF sensors 52 vs. 36
    2. cross pt sensors are functional with f5.6 or faster lenses vs. f2.8 for the 7d
    3. speed, 10fps vs. 8
    other non-AF related differences
    4. bigger pro tank body vs. smaller prosumer body
    5. dual card slots vs. single card slot
    6. 16MP APS-H sensor vs. 18MP APS-C sensor, better high iso less reach vs.more reach and poorer high iso.
    7. slightly faster flash sync speed
    8. $5k vs $1.7k
    What I was trying to say earlier is that the new AF and intelligent exposure metering system which will be common for 7d, 1d4, and 1ds4 looks excellent and has fixed some of the problems identified in the 1d3 AF system. The 7d has all the custom functions for AF like the 1 series.
    As LJ was saying earlier, the 7d is an interesting new unique dslr system which is between the 50d line and the 1d line. I have a 1ds3,5d, 1d2n and now a 7d. I understand wanting a pro body for out in the field. I think the 7d is a good option for a 2nd body, one which would give you much more reach which is needed for things like bird photography.I like carrying both a FF camera for landscape and a crop camera with fast AF for wildlife/birding. I went with the 7D instead of 1d4 gaining extra reach and saving $3.3k for use soon when I upgrade my 1ds3 to a 1ds4.With the recent shorter life cycle of pro dslrs, one has to take into account more the rapid depreciation of these bodies which is expensive. Not quite as bad as MFDB but then they get special upgrade path deals.
    Sorry I was a little off on the # of AF points for both cameras:

    1d4 has 45 AF pts. with 39 of those being cross pt sensors.
    7d has 19 AF pts all being cross pt. sensors with a special dual cross sensor pt. in the center.
    As I mentioned above the 1d4's horizontal sensitivity of their cross pt. sensors works with lenses f5.6 or faster while the 7d's only f2.8 or faster.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    NO big deal Wayne, we all know the specs

    I really just hope that this time this AF points will be put to good use from the start, I'm surely not up to an other Blu Dot Drama..

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Quote Originally Posted by 2x2 View Post
    The P65+ is a completely different animal, including pixel binning + technology.
    I think it is borderline ridiculous to compare a 37.5 MP sensor with a 65 MP one.
    I was making the noise comparison at a pixel level basis and not on the whole image with no pixel binning.Yes, at the full image level, the P65+ has sensor size advantag and would be much better when normalizing for the same FOV.

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    Re: The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

    Folks,
    Is it possible that we might be able to keep the MF discussions in the MF forum? Same with the RED discussions? Not trying to squelch any good discussion, but there is plenty of very active conversation about P65+ v. S2 going on in other threads. When/if Canon builds a bigger, more MF-like camera, complete with pixel-binning, etc., then all lines will be blurred. I do understand how the new HD video features are starting to encroach upon video platforms, and how the RED system is now making cameras that could be competing with "still" photography at some point, and all of that discussion is great. Just looking to keep some of the Canon stuff more germane to Canon, and any direct comparisons or tests, not just DSLR v. MF v. cine.

    Sorry if that sounds too narrow, but when I checked this thread for further discussion, I thought I had landed in the MF forum for a minute ;-) This is plenty to be excited about in all, and now with the new 7D and 1DMkIV from Canon, plus a hopefully pending 1DsMkIV with some great specs, it would be great to be able to talk more about them in this section of the forum. Let's not lose any of the discussions in general, but maybe start new threads or topics when things start to drift afar. Just a thought.

    LJ

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