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Thread: 1Ds MK III test!

  1. #101
    Luis M.
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by AGeoJO View Post
    ...I bought my MarkII almost 3 years ago and if I sell now, I would be "loosing" a little over $4,000.00.
    ...I am thinking of using my best exotic lenses and some top notch Canon lenses, like the 180 Macro, 90mm T/S, 135mm f/2.0, 200mm f/1.8, etc. to take some interesting shots. We will see what this camera can really bring on the table.

    Take care,
    Joshua
    Hi Joshua, I bought mine same date aprox (Jan 2005). Now, someone is paying about 5600 $ for it. That makes 2400K for using that camera over almost 3 years. (I've made about 100k shoots with it, that makes 10 $ for every wedding work) Or if you prefer, 2400K to pay for upgrading to mkIII. That is not a bad deal for me.
    Since I've not seen any good 100/200 ISO samples comparing to mkII and 5D, I will wait a bit, but I'm guessing they will come out in a big different way to what we've seen here. Actually, my dealer in Madrid will let me a brand new one piece of mkIII to test it by my self for a couple of hours. I fully agree you that it must be a serious test, with best top notch primes, standing on a tripod and shooting MLU to get the best of that cameras.
    Years before, I used to shoot everything with Hasselblad, and I never compare it with 35 mm, nor I'm doing now. I DO know that MFDB, in particular H3D39II, is a much much better choice, but I'm trying to see the real performace difference between mkII and III. I tried a H3D39II last month for about a week, and results are really amazing. I almost was about to buy one of these. But honestly, if I had paid 35K $ (camera kit + 28 mm) for it, I don't think it is going to be a good deal, at least for the kind of work I'm doing, mostly 12"x18" prints, some at 12"x36".
    Regards
    Luis

  2. #102
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Scott, providing a RAW file from a MF digital back is difficult since the best image performance is acquired by using the proprietary RAW processor from the back maker.

    A secondary lesser option is a DNG conversion that can be opened in CS3 using Adobe's latest RAW module.

    Perhaps in the next few weeks I can pull a few shots off in the studio to demonstrate.
    Then post an FTP link for anyone to retrieve the files. Just finding the time to do it right would have to be the goal.

  3. #103
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Okay, as promised, here are the ISO 1600 crops. ALL images were processed at ACR defaults, "as-shot" WB, and nothing else was done to them except the crops.

    5D:



    1Ds2:



    1Ds3:



    And just for fun, a 700x583pix crop from the 5D jpeg above, uprezzed to 900x700pix to match the 1Ds3 view:



    Again, I leave you to draw your own conclusions...

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  4. #104
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Jack nice test first off and this is even more clear now that I see this. Let me comment here in steps first the 1dsMKII VS the 1dsMKIII. First the 1dsMKII seems to me that you can see more into the shadows which gives the impression of better DR to start off with now being that you can see better in the shadows it looks like the 1dsMKII has more noise at first glance but i really don't think that is the case though if you look to the sides in the mid tones it actually looks about equal even though it appears worse because you are seeing into the shadows more on the 1dsMKII than the 1dsMKIII it makes it a little deceiving . Besides the noise which really means a hill of beans to me because i never go past 800 and on real advertising i would be at ISO 100 anyway. But looking right here is what i am seeing that there is a very slight increase in detail right in this area this is the 1dsMKII shot of yours
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  5. #105
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Than the 1dsmkIII shot in the same location I see ever so slight a increase and maybe just a touch more sharpening would equal it. Not that i like sharpening but just making a point that the increase is not matching the marketing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #106
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    If I had a 1sMKII i would really question the move like i have said earlier . Than looking at the 5d yes there is increase in detail but the 5d has the best noise of all three and interesting looks to have just a notch below the 1dsMKII in shadow detail which i think the 1dsMKII has the best in depth shadows, what the heck happened to there 14 bit better DR because not sure i am seeing that in this tes at all maybe different examples but not here. Than when you blow up your 5d to match the 1dsMKIII you have to wonder yes more detail but is it worth the 4500 dollar difference. I leave it up to the buyer to decide which maybe the best one for them but i would not switch camera's for the Canon 1dsMKIII right now. I just don't see enough to do it, although i am sure it is good and i wish canon the best at selling it but if i was a canon owner right now maybe i would sit tight and see what the 5d replacement looked like given if your only concerned about the image the 1dsMKIII has a lot of nice bells and whistles over the the 5d and improvements over the 1dsMKII but i go by image first and that is me , someone else may want all those extra features that come with a new model. I just keep going back to what i said at first and that is be sure this upgrade is really what your after but if you have to bolt leica and Zeiss glass to it to perform your back to that stop down stuff again and canon' line of lenses are suspect for this, they have some really good ones but there are only a handful of them. I'm picky though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  7. #107
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    I'd like to add a follow-up comment here. To be clear, I still see improvement in detail going from the 5D to the 1Ds2 to the 1Ds3, however, to my eye it is even less significant at ISO 1600 than it was at ISO 400. But it is there. As to whether the difference/improvement is significant enough for the cost delta in the cameras, I am of the opinion folks need to evaluate that for their own uses...

    When the 5D was released a few years ago, I said pretty much the same thing about the 1Ds2, but back then felt the 1Ds2 was worth it for my uses; I could see the difference in fine detail in my large prints and at that time in my photographic career, optimum detail was the holy grail for me. However, it wasn't long before I noticed that if I wasn't comparing the 5D print and the 1Ds2 print side-by-side, both prints looked good to me. Sure, I could see improved fine detail in the 1Ds2 prints, but when I asked several non-photographers in my building which print they liked better, I got varied answers. (My usual print buyer is a non-photographer.) The common comment was, "They look the same to me," or "I like the colors in this one better." And it was a toss-up as to which print they pointed to when they made the color comment...

    That was when I realized that other factors like image content, not just detail, is what made my photographs "purchase worthy." That was when I started focusing my energies on trying to make better images and not just more detailed ones. Thus is how my own personal approach to gear needs has evolved over the past few years, but just because that works for me, doesn't mean it will work for everybody, and I post my camera comparisons in that spirit. Hopefully I am presenting the data in a fashion that allows everybody to make a more informed decision for themselves.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  8. #108
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Jack i agree with your comments based on your posted images. I finally got back and just played around with the camera last night. I really want to do some testing but so overwhelmed at work trying to catch up. I want to try some of the non-canon wide angle lenses, leica 100mm macro, which is my mind has to be the sharpest lenses I have than can be used on the canon against the Hasselblad H2 with 120mm macro HC, which is the sharpest lens i have used with the leaf back. I also have a canon 85 1.2 II that I played with last night but nothing serious or worth reporting on. In reality, I really can say I have been impressed by what I have seen and read regarding the Hasselblad H3D-31 set up. I had a chance to handle the camera too. I forgot how heavy the canon 1D series cameras are and the hasselblad is not that much bigger. However, the canon lenses are generally smaller and lighter but the hasselblad 50-110mm zoom, while big and heavy is the best zoom lens, I have ever owned. But when it comes to super telephoto shooting the canon 1D series cameras cannot be beat. I might get a chance to break away tomorrow afternoon.... so Jack if you want I could meet you at the Stanford Church which is a good place to do some testing...

  9. #109
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Hi Mark:

    I've got a busy week too, but let me know when you head over and maybe I can break away --

    Jack
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  10. #110
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    Jack i agree with your comments based on your posted images. I finally got back and just played around with the camera last night. I really want to do some testing but so overwhelmed at work trying to catch up. I want to try some of the non-canon wide angle lenses, leica

    SNIP

    testing...
    Mark,

    Eagerly awaiting your thoughts on the 1DsIII; particularly with the CZ 21 and CZ 35 PC lenses.

    -Chris

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    This has been a very helpful thread. The thread, together with comments made by Jack some time ago on OPF have led me to decide not to upgrade (from a 1Ds2) for the moment to the 1Ds3 , which I declined when informed by my dealer of availability (they had received 20 on 10 Dec.). Of course one clear advantage of upgrading within the Canon system as opposed to other options is that this can be done surreptitiously with respect to disproving household members, a significant point oddly overlooked here. While there is little noteworthy in the above comments, there is one thing that bears underscoring: I believe that this is the first time ever that Guy has saved me some money. Of course, an R10 is another matter...

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Hi Ralph:

    Glad to hear the mini review helped! On the 1 series upgrade path, I know what you mean --- I have a friend who did decide to upgraded to the 1Ds3 from the 1Ds2, but his wife thinks he's still shooting with his 1Ds1 LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Marc:

    I TOTALLY agree with this strategy in lieu of the 1Ds3. However, for $400, having the AA filter removed from a 5D doesn't seem like a bad idea either
    The D200 examples are quite illuminating of what happens when the AA filter goes! If they also included trimming the mirror so my R19/2.8 (which works on the 1D but not 5D) would work, I'd be first in line. Especially given the deals that can be found on 5Ds!

  14. #114
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Eisenberg View Post
    This has been a very helpful thread. The thread, together with comments made by Jack some time ago on OPF have led me to decide not to upgrade (from a 1Ds2) for the moment to the 1Ds3 , which I declined when informed by my dealer of availability (they had received 20 on 10 Dec.). Of course one clear advantage of upgrading within the Canon system as opposed to other options is that this can be done surreptitiously with respect to disproving household members, a significant point oddly overlooked here. While there is little noteworthy in the above comments, there is one thing that bears underscoring: I believe that this is the first time ever that Guy has saved me some money. Of course, an R10 is another matter...

    Saving your money for the R10 Ralph

    I just think folks really need to make a SMART buy decision on this one. I want something to jump at me before i put my money in it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Jack.. Do you have the latest version of DPP? I have been processing the same images in DPP vs CS3. I set the DPP sharpening to 3 or 4. I tried to sharpen the image about 10 different ways including step wise. I cannot get the same degree of sharpening with CS3 before i get lots of artifacts. The colors are much better using DPP even when i do my best to try to match in CS3. I need to play with this some more.. Starts to get the OCD going

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Mark:

    I suspect the processing of the 1Ds3 files will improve and progress as folks gain familiarity with the files --- they have mostly done so in the past. But given your comment, I think I need to reiterate my concern: My issue isn't over the detail the 1Ds3 can produce, it is about the overall "look" of the file. Smoothness of tone and sparkle. For whatever reason, Canon files since after the 1D have always looked somewhat flat or "plastic" as some others have said. I don't see that changing much with raw processing technique. I developed strategies to alleviate that look in my Canon files, but it takes a lot of post work in CS to do it; I have three actions I run on every file, then have to add a fully manual step in. By contrast, I don't need to do that with my AA-filterLESS CCD cameras, yet if I do, it can sometimes even make those look better

    Now to be clear, I think that plastic look can be a huge benefit for shooting fashion, where you may want to have skin and fabric look smoother and more consistent, like the models were always shot under a bank of huge soft-boxes. With the Canon, you get there right out of the raw converter and the detail is there to boot, so that may in fact be an advantage for some. However, for MY uses, mostly landscape and travel images I like to print large, I want more sparkle and punch.

    Again, my .02 only,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    All points well taken and i do understand. I will say that the skin tones look better using DPP even when i adjust the color temperature and tones to be the same by number and/or try to match skintones in CS3. Even the Stanford church shot, the colors and tones look much better and more accurate in DPP-- less redness. I can adjust to get rid in CS3 but more work and still does not look as good but not sure I got the optimal settings yet. Nonetheless, my only comment is that comparing images from different sensors using a single default RAW converter is less useful than I had thought.. I realize you and others probably already knew that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Mark:

    I suspect the processing of the 1Ds3 files will improve and progress as folks gain familiarity with the files --- they have mostly done so in the past. But given your comment, I think I need to reiterate my concern: My issue isn't over the detail the 1Ds3 can produce, it is about the overall "look" of the file. Smoothness of tone and sparkle. For whatever reason, Canon files since after the 1D have always looked somewhat flat or "plastic" as some others have said. I don't see that changing much with raw processing technique. I developed strategies to alleviate that look in my Canon files, but it takes a lot of post work in CS to do it; I have three actions I run on every file, then have to add a fully manual step in. By contrast, I don't need to do that with my AA-filterLESS CCD cameras, yet if I do, it can sometimes even make those look better

    Now to be clear, I think that plastic look can be a huge benefit for shooting fashion, where you may want to have skin and fabric look smoother and more consistent, like the models were always shot under a bank of huge soft-boxes. With the Canon, you get there right out of the raw converter and the detail is there to boot, so that may in fact be an advantage for some. However, for MY uses, mostly landscape and travel images I like to print large, I want more sparkle and punch.

    Again, my .02 only,

  18. #118
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Mark , very hard to do a system compare. You can get pretty close but than you still wonder. Honestly in about a month or so from now you will get it under control and know exactly what it is doing than the tests get a little easier. But it really is a nightmare to do and subject matter will count to. Frankly would not worry about comparing to much just get the Canon under your control with processing is what i would concentrate on. From memory DPP was nice but hated the interface, now things may have changed also. What you can try to do in ACR is calibrate to the output of the camera.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    I can tell you that DPP makes a huge huge difference. I am quite amazed. In hte early days i hated it and i agree the interface still sucks but the conversion of the RAW images are much better than what i had tried in the old days with the older cameras when first released

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Mark , very hard to do a system compare. You can get pretty close but than you still wonder. Honestly in about a month or so from now you will get it under control and know exactly what it is doing than the tests get a little easier. But it really is a nightmare to do and subject matter will count to. Frankly would not worry about comparing to much just get the Canon under your control with processing is what i would concentrate on. From memory DPP was nice but hated the interface, now things may have changed also. What you can try to do in ACR is calibrate to the output of the camera.

  20. #120
    outlawyer
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    One conclusion I've gleaned from these tests is this: The 5D is a great camera.

  21. #121
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by outlawyer View Post
    One conclusion I've gleaned from these tests is this: The 5D is a great camera.
    Agreed! I would even say it is becoming readily apparent the 5D was a LANDMARK camera for Canon...
    Jack
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  22. #122
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Agreed! I would even say it is becoming readily apparent the 5D was a LANDMARK camera for Canon...
    Jack,
    Not having owned a 5D, but having seen lots of files from it, I would also tend to agree that as an imager, it really is outstanding. I still like my 1DsMkII, and at this point am glad that I did not upgrade to a MkIII for it or for the two 1DMkII bodies I still shoot with. I do wish they had some of the newer features, but the images they deliver for me are still quite good, and in focus more often than folks are still reporting for the MkIII bodies.

    LJ

  23. #123
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Jack,
    Not having owned a 5D, but having seen lots of files from it, I would also tend to agree that as an imager, it really is outstanding. I still like my 1DsMkII, and at this point am glad that I did not upgrade to a MkIII for it or for the two 1DMkII bodies I still shoot with. I do wish they had some of the newer features, but the images they deliver for me are still quite good, and in focus more often than folks are still reporting for the MkIII bodies.

    LJ
    Having owned and shot ALL the cameras being discussed, I've found they are all good for the tasks I've used them for... with the 5D being quite a value for it's time ... and still a relative bargain given the images it's capable of producing. IMO, it is proof that the size and quality of the pixels in a given space combined with the available optics can produce images beyond expectations of the specs.

    However, it's like a race engine just plopped into a family sedan without any other modifications. It's AF is ponderous and questionable for certain applications, poor ergonomics, and it sounds and feels like a toy. I personally hated the camera. Plus, when it was first launched, it initially was thought to deliver soft images until owners figured out how to work with the files.

    That image issue is a similar experience I am working through with the MKIII bodies and am gaining on. I've figured out the 1DMKIII and most of the 1DsMKIII. I do not have any focus issues with either camera and find them more responsive than any previous Canon I've owned. I'm sure there are nuance AF issues still lingering with the 1DMKIII as reported, but they are so specific that they have never effected me given my shooting style. I can say with certainty, it is much more AF capable than the 5D ... and the mirror hasn't fallen out : -)

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Your comments about the handling of the 5D match my brief handling of it when they first came out. I was looking to get one as a supplement/back-up for the 1DsMkII for assignments where I wanted/needed FF imaging, but even though the files were great, I could not overcome the ergonomics and lack of responsiveness of the 5D for my needs. So, I just backed things up with the 1DMkIIs, as needed, and never had an issue.

    I have been tempted to upgrade to the 1DsMkIII for its greater resolution, slightly better ISO, and other camera features, but I will really need to swap out all the MkIIs for MkIIIs to avoid handling, battery and accessory issues, for the way I like to work. That is another reason why I did not get a 5D....just did not want to support another set of accessories and batteries for doing work if I did not need to.

    LJ

  25. #125
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I've figured out the 1DMKIII and most of the 1DsMKIII. I do not have any focus issues with either camera and find them more responsive than any previous Canon I've owned. I'm sure there are nuance AF issues still lingering with the 1DMKIII as reported, but they are so specific that they have never effected me given my shooting style. I can say with certainty, it is much more AF capable than the 5D ... and the mirror hasn't fallen out : -)
    I'm in the process of learning how to optimize the 1DMKIII. Having learned Lightroom and Aperture with an R-D1s and M8, I find post-production especially challenging/disappointing. I suspect this is largely because I am not accustomed to applying sharpening and/or shooting toward the right side of the histogram. Any chance you could share some of your lessons learned with the 1DMKIII?

  26. #126
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Mark:

    I suspect the processing of the 1Ds3 files will improve and progress as folks gain familiarity with the files --- they have mostly done so in the past. But given your comment, I think I need to reiterate my concern: My issue isn't over the detail the 1Ds3 can produce, it is about the overall "look" of the file. Smoothness of tone and sparkle. For whatever reason, Canon files since after the 1D have always looked somewhat flat or "plastic" as some others have said. I don't see that changing much with raw processing technique. I developed strategies to alleviate that look in my Canon files, but it takes a lot of post work in CS to do it; I have three actions I run on every file, then have to add a fully manual step in. By contrast, I don't need to do that with my AA-filterLESS CCD cameras, yet if I do, it can sometimes even make those look better

    Now to be clear, I think that plastic look can be a huge benefit for shooting fashion, where you may want to have skin and fabric look smoother and more consistent, like the models were always shot under a bank of huge soft-boxes. With the Canon, you get there right out of the raw converter and the detail is there to boot, so that may in fact be an advantage for some. However, for MY uses, mostly landscape and travel images I like to print large, I want more sparkle and punch.

    Again, my .02 only,
    Absolutely agree Jack ... so that makes .04 worth : -)

    I use the two Canons for nothing but wedding photography and have not used a Canon for anything else for years. Commercial, portrait & Travel = MF digital. Street, personal travel and documentary (including a lot of wedding) = Leica.

  27. #127
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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Thanks for posting these excellent tests. This has been a great thread. I think that with all issues relating to AA filters and the tradeoffs inherent to them, it really depends on the needs of the particular photographer. For example, I would guess that a wedding photographer might be willing to accept a stronger AA filter to avoid aliasing effects on fabrics, particularly if enough detail could be maintained through sharpening to resolve significantly more detail than the next best 35mm digital system (here I mean "best" in terms of detail resolved only). With proper sharpening, the 1Ds III is clearly resolving the most detail of the three, as pointed out by Jack.


    The H3D/31-II on page 4 of this thread is amazing.


    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Jack:

    Your detail extraction is creating those brush stroke type artifacts that RAWShooter used to have. Do they go away at lower detail extraction settings?

    Robert
    Even at the lower detail settings posted later in the thread, one can still make these out, though just barely. Those patterns are far more evident at high ISO (or any ISO with a small sensor camera) and are one reason I don't use ACR/LR anymore since ACR 4.1/LR1.1. I use C1 for the 5D, and Raw Developer for everything else.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Absolutely agree Jack ... so that makes .04 worth : -)

    I use the two Canons for nothing but wedding photography and have not used a Canon for anything else for years. Commercial, portrait & Travel = MF digital. Street, personal travel and documentary (including a lot of wedding) = Leica.
    Amen Marc, we are in agreement, except I use the Leica for travel and still have a view for some of the commercial and landscape work

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Well the handling of it over the 1ds 11 with the less weight is significant as is the faster fps as this is my concert camera as well as some magazine work and landscape, yes it take some sharpening but to each his own. David

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Any further thoughts about the comparisons made above, now that there is greater familiarity with the 1Ds3 and the processing of its files? I'm interested particularly in the comparison to the 1Ds2 and whether there might be any tangible gains (and/or losses) in image quality with the change of bodies. Thanks

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Ralph - Another spot to do some reading is John Black's site, www.pebbleplace.com. Start with the home page and go thru the blog - including the MF part. Lots of comments relative to the 1ds3 in there.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Ralph - Another spot to do some reading is John Black's site, www.pebbleplace.com. Start with the home page and go thru the blog - including the MF part. Lots of comments relative to the 1ds3 in there.
    Thanks for your reply. I'll have a look at it, but I am keenly interested in views from posters on this site who in the past have saved me from myself, or, made my economic situation worse but my photography better.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Eisenberg View Post
    Thanks for your reply. I'll have a look at it, but I am keenly interested in views from posters on this site who in the past have saved me from myself, or, made my economic situation worse but my photography better.
    Here are my experiences in a nut shell Ralph (experiences using all of this stuff for a huge range of different work from in-studio and location commercial assignments to 8 hr hectic stints shooting weddings):

    Nothing in the 35mm DSLR world equals the image quality of just about any MF digital back ... nor do I believe it ever will.

    IMO, many of the experiences concerning MF operational functionality is based on old tech. My Mamiya AFD-II and Aptus back was a bit slower than a Hasselblad H3D/31 or Hy6 ... the latter 2 being more integrated and operationally 35mm DSLR like (remains to be seen how the new Phase One/Mamiya AFD-III does in this area.) I can say that for some functions my Hasselblad H3D/31 is easier to control than my 1DMKII or 1DsMKIII. The ergonomics are simply better thought out once you familiarize yourself with them. The H flash control is miles ahead of the Canon.

    If John at Pebble Place seeks more integration and operational functionality to mimic a 35mm DSLR, the idea of a old tech Contax 645 and Phase back is counter to that. For one thing, my previous Contax 645s were like a sedated turtle carried by blind snails compared to the AF speed of the Hasselblad H3D (which I now own), and Hy6 cameras (which I've tested.)

    Using the base ISO as the point of measure is misleading. One of the main drives of all the MF digital back makers has been to better maximize the abilities of their systems with continual integrated hardware, firmware and software advances.

    The result has been quantum leaps forward in IQ at higher ISOs and mind boggling automatic CA and distortion corrections based on integrated data communications from the specific "mapped" lens, body and digital back. While modern DSLRs are touted as epitome of integration, it escapes me why Canon has not implemented these concepts to correct their less than stellar wide-angle optics. This concept is standard on my Hasselblads and is like a miracle solution. The Aptus 75s I just sold produced phenomenal images @ ISO 800 ... once Leaf updated the firmware and software, and one learned how to use it (this is one of my pet peeves, since it requires really in-depth emersion into a new software to grasp how to squeeze everything possible out of a big file.)

    I do agree that it is a mistake to confuse a 35mm DSLR like the Canon 1DsMKIII with an integrated MF digital camera ... depending on what you tend to shoot and how you shoot. The AF is faster (depending on the lens) with a modern 1 Series camera ... and acceptable files can be produced at ISO 1600 or even 3200 in the right light. However, in all the stuff I shoot there is very little I cannot shoot with the H3D/31 and the 100/2.2 which focuses faster than the 85/1.2-IIL on the Canon 1DsMKIII. I would not necessarily shoot a Soccer game or Grand Prix with a H3D, where the Canon would better suited ... but I shoot neither, so it's a moot point in my case.

    My experiences with the 1DsMKII is that it's worth the money IF the functional additions are something you would use. It is much improved in the area of control/speed, and the new LCD is great ... the live view is a God sent for many things I shoot ... like shooting wedding formals on a tripod where I can compose on screen, then zoom in on the live view to check focus and immediately shoot without zooming back out.

    The overall look of the files is as Jack said "a touch plastic" ... but that's also true for the 5D and 1DsMKII IMO. What has mitigated that to some degree has been the use of higher contrast Contax and Zeiss lenses. I now use a fully automated AF 24-85/3.5 Contax N zoom which has provided snapper looking files. That, and working with the Canon sMKIII files longer now, has resulted in better stuff than with my previous sMKII ... none of which hold a candle to my MF digital backs ... and never will.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Thanks very much for your considered, highly informative and detailed reply. It is very helpful and certainly places a lid on expectations in regard to what an upgrade might bring. There is much to ponder in it.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Mark, did you get a chance to handle the H3D/31-II? All I can tell you is that camera is FAST. I've been using it (H3D/31) now for some time and it seriously put a crimp in the use of my Canon 1DsMKII at weddings. I do a lot of lower light candid work with it using on camera flash with a light modifier,
    and the files are WOW! ISO 800 is very good, and the new software/firmware will push my H3D/31 to 1600.

    The Canon still is the go to high ISO solution and lightening quick AF, but quite frankly I personally don't need an $8,000. camera for that task.

    If you get that H3D/31-II, you are in for a serious shock as to what it can do compared to a 35mm DSLR.

    Here's a marginal example ... marginal because I used an ambitiously slow shutter speed that recorded wind movement .... stuff like that really shows up due to the tendency to print these files really large ... because you can : -)
    I'm a little confused by this shot; how can the figures be in focus and both in front and back NOT be. It looks frankly like a cut in. It looks too good to be true, maybe it is.

    Itherwise these are the most steady models in history, while all around them is quaking in the wind.

    Anyway, can someone explain? Did you have stobes on the figures and drag? Very clever whatever it was! "Hats off"

    Victor
    Last edited by gogopix; 11th April 2008 at 14:24.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    I'm a little confused by this shot; how can the figures be in focus and both in front and back NOT be. It looks frankly like a cut in. It looks too good to be true, maybe it is.

    Itherwise these are the most steady models in history, while all around them is quaking in the wind.

    Anyway, can someone explain? Did you have stobes on the figures and drag? Very clever whatever it was! "Hats off"

    Victor
    Excellent eye Victor. 2 quick exposures in sequence ... one because the lighting was directly on them in the opening, so the forest went quite dark, then another to open up the forest which produced wind movement ... then merged in PS using layers and history brush.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Very nice!!figured there was some neat action going on.

    I must watch for similar oppotunities. So you were able to blend from ambient, without strobes. The overall effect comes out quite natural looking, a great improvement on just using studio cut ins.

    Now, about that H3D. Why did you go that route rather than staying H2 and leaving open other backs? A big question will be whether the new H2F has an open system (in which case I may consider switching my P45+ to an H2 mount if that exists, and using Contax for film, or even getting a P30+ which I have been lloking at.

    The more these other people raise issue the more I see some of the restrictions in even a mount that takes all the hassey Contax AND some Leica lenses.

    Also, the Fuji versions of the hasselblad seem every bit as good as the Kyocera versions of the Zeiss. And I assume that ALL V lenses would work on both the H2 and H3 lines.

    The alterantive is to add a Sinar and the Hy6 with Rollei AF.

    I need to take some time to test this stuff. NY is so great, Wsahington DC is like the boonies by comparison.

    regards
    Victor

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Very nice!!figured there was some neat action going on.

    I must watch for similar oppotunities. So you were able to blend from ambient, without strobes. The overall effect comes out quite natural looking, a great improvement on just using studio cut ins.

    Now, about that H3D. Why did you go that route rather than staying H2 and leaving open other backs? A big question will be whether the new H2F has an open system (in which case I may consider switching my P45+ to an H2 mount if that exists, and using Contax for film, or even getting a P30+ which I have been lloking at.

    The more these other people raise issue the more I see some of the restrictions in even a mount that takes all the hassey Contax AND some Leica lenses.

    Also, the Fuji versions of the hasselblad seem every bit as good as the Kyocera versions of the Zeiss. And I assume that ALL V lenses would work on both the H2 and H3 lines.

    The alterantive is to add a Sinar and the Hy6 with Rollei AF.

    I need to take some time to test this stuff. NY is so great, Wsahington DC is like the boonies by comparison.

    regards
    Victor
    Victor, it is rumored that the H2F will accept other backs, but that hasn't been confirmed yet. It will accept the CF line. The V lenses work on any H camera with the CF adapter.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Marc

    Is there a CF adapter for V lenses to the H1?

    Thanks

    Woody

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Marc

    Is there a CF adapter for V lenses to the H1?

    Thanks

    Woody
    I am pretty sure you can use the CF adapter on any H camera, film or digital. But I'd check with Hasselblad Tech on that just to be safe.

    It's a pretty ingenious device. Because the CF lenses are mechanical, there is a lever on the left side that you use to cock the lens after each shot. Hasselblad designed it so you push it up with your left thumb which is actually faster than winding a 500. If you don't cock it, the H camera won't fire, and "Cock The Lens" shows up on the grip LCD.

    If you mount any CFE lens the camera automatically knows what lens it is for metering and TTL flash control. With other lenses you use the grip menu to tell the camera which lens is mounted ... the list includes all the lenses and extenders. You do NOT have to stop down meter.

    What's really cool is that there is focus confirmation in the viewfinder ... really helpful with those wide angle optics in lower light. You also have full TTL flash control in the camera with any Metz flash and the proper H module. In those ways, it's actually better than the 500 camera.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Marc
    what happened to that great shot? actually the H3D II is on my short list.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I am pretty sure you can use the CF adapter on any H camera, film or digital. But I'd check with Hasselblad Tech on that just to be safe.

    It's a pretty ingenious device. Because the CF lenses are mechanical, there is a lever on the left side that you use to cock the lens after each shot. Hasselblad designed it so you push it up with your left thumb which is actually faster than winding a 500. If you don't cock it, the H camera won't fire, and "Cock The Lens" shows up on the grip LCD.

    If you mount any CFE lens the camera automatically knows what lens it is for metering and TTL flash control. With other lenses you use the grip menu to tell the camera which lens is mounted ... the list includes all the lenses and extenders. You do NOT have to stop down meter.

    What's really cool is that there is focus confirmation in the viewfinder ... really helpful with those wide angle optics in lower light. You also have full TTL flash control in the camera with any Metz flash and the proper H module. In those ways, it's actually better than the 500 camera.

    Slick, very slick.

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    Re: 1Ds MK III test!

    Wow, what an excellent test Jack Flesher. It really does show that the 5D really is still a usable camera. Even with its not so good focus points, the smaller size of the 5D makes it an ideal high quality only full frame Canon travel DSLR.

    It is also good to see that the 1ds mk3 does exhibit more resolution that the 1ds mk 2 and 5D. But the margin is not by much. I suspect like others have said, that this slight resolution advantage may be handy for post cropping of images.

    Mazor

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