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Thread: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    With respect to Anders Uschold's comments with respect to IS or not - he wasn't comparing IS and non IS lenses, but talking about inevitable corner degredation if you design IS into lenses - he could be wrong of course, but his reports seem to be about as technical as it's possible to get!
    Whether it's significant or not, I don't know.
    I certainly approve of IS in general (use it most of the time on the E3 for instance).

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    The built-in thing affecting corner performance is a misnomer as it depends on how you implement it, and here Canon implements it differently than Nikon. It also works differently between IF lenses and conventional "group focus" designs...

    I have tested a wide variety of Canon IS lenses against their non-IS counterparts and can confirm that in all but a few select cases, the IS versions are superior, and I mean corner to corner across the image.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Fair enough, Jono. I too was "reading" your comments as Amin may have interpreted them, about IS versus non-IS lens lens performance. So if I am reading your comments correctly now, Anders is saying that the overall initial design of IS into a lens may create some corner degradation. That may or may not become an issue for some lenses. My thinking is that longer glass will have less of and issue, and that is sort of why I never think much about IS on shorter lenses anyway.

    And, as you mention, it may not be significant for other reasons too, such as the fact that I, like many, have to crop the final image somewhat, especially for publication and printing formats, so any issues that could exist at the corners get lopped off anyway. Canon, and Nikon for that matter, have never had stellar corner performance on most of their shorter glass anyway, so how does one separate IS/VR issues from others anyway? (I do understand what Anders is postulating/suggesting, but it seems that any of those issues are already overwhelmed by the glass resolving issues before IS/VR might get designed in to start. Not saying it is O.K., just that most shorter glass, and probably all zooms could benefit from an even more rigorous design and quality build in both Nikon and Canon lines, with or without VR/IS.)

    As I commented before, IS/VR can be a great thing in the right setting and under conditions where it works best, but I still do not think it needs to be on all lenses or used all the time.

    LJ

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post

    I have tested a wide variety of Canon IS lenses against their non-IS counterparts and can confirm that in all but a few select cases, the IS versions are superior, and I mean corner to corner across the image.

    Cheers,
    Without having done the more rigorous tests Jack is discussing, I have found his conclusions to be the same as my use observations. That is why I tend to buy an IS lens, even though I know I may not be using the IS as much.

    LJ

    P.S. The above being said, I still believe that IS is NOT needed on a lot of lenses, such as most wide angles. I think it does tend to help the zoom lenses a lot more at the shorter end, and that may include the 24-70, if that came to pass and the design actually "helped" as Jack points out. I do not like the extra weight nor costs, but it does tend to deliver better results, so that makes it worth it, in my opinion.
    Last edited by LJL; 6th September 2008 at 10:29.

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by rexyinc View Post
    Just spoke to one of the engineers ( his a mate and client of mine ) of the upcoming 3d & 7d's ( the 5d replacements ) he said they will look into adding HD video to the next generation.. ie: way too late now to add a major feature like this to the units pitty as I had a whole list of 'must haves' I wanted added to the video feature.. and the res is about 16mps. just relax for another two weeks okays.
    Tony
    I must admit that I don't believe a word of this

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by rexyinc View Post
    Just spoke to one of the engineers ( his a mate and client of mine ) of the upcoming 3d & 7d's ( the 5d replacements ) he said they will look into adding HD video to the next generation.. ie: way too late now to add a major feature like this to the units pitty as I had a whole list of 'must haves' I wanted added to the video feature.. and the res is about 16mps. just relax for another two weeks okays.

    Tony
    Video and pop-up flash are my list of MUST NOT HAVE.

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Why? You don't have to use them...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    Video and pop-up flash are my list of MUST NOT HAVE.
    Would love to hear your rationale on the no flash. I barely use flash but just this weekend I did find a use for it. Not sure what the downside to having it on the camera would be.

    In terms of video, I think in the not too distant future you will not be able to avoid it. The original live view cameras the "point and shoots" all have it and with all new models coming out with live view it is only a matter of time.

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by pcunite View Post
    I must admit that I don't believe a word of this
    well, truth is I do have a long list of functions I'd love to see on the rig.. why is that hard to believe?.. the fact is nikons feature set here i feel falls short but is a excellent start, but is reason enough for us to place a order ten of them for my workshops for my students to use... just adding HD video to my photography workshops adds a few more interesting possibilities to our students and workshop business..

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Why? You don't have to use them...
    adding more failure points for software and hardware.

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Would love to hear your rationale on the no flash. I barely use flash but just this weekend I did find a use for it. Not sure what the downside to having it on the camera would be.

    In terms of video, I think in the not too distant future you will not be able to avoid it. The original live view cameras the "point and shoots" all have it and with all new models coming out with live view it is only a matter of time.
    No Flash = Noctilux or Canon 50/1.0 or Canon 50/0.95

    As for video, video has a very different 'grammar' than still images.
    Give Grammar of the Film Language by Daniel Arijon a read and then read Photography Theory edited by James Elkins.
    Then compare and contrast to see how very different film/video and still photography are. For a bonus give Wim Wenders: On Film: Essays and Conversations by Wim Wenders, both a great film maker and still photographer a read for insights into the differences.


    We've had live view for all most as long we have had cameras. It was called a ground glass screen.
    Last edited by johnastovall; 7th September 2008 at 06:53.

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Coming back to the IS / VR discussion - I have used IS and non IS glass, as well as VR and non VR glass in several incarnations - I always found the quality of the IS / VR versions equal or superior to the non-IS/VR versions.

    Plus you get the additional stops.

    Higher ISO is great, especially the ISO in the D3, but if you look careful, then you will see that ISO above 3200 brings less IQ, so I prefer IS /VR. Also in glass like the 24-70.

    @jonoslack - I have no idea why you can say that IS/VR reduces IQ. This is a typical argument of people who are against all new technologies. Absolutely wrong and cannot be proved to be true! Sorry.

    But if you really prefer glass without IS/VR, well there is equipment on the market, which will satisfy your needs. But PLEASE - let the others just get what they want Thanks!

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    @jonoslack - I have no idea why you can say that IS/VR reduces IQ. This is a typical argument of people who are against all new technologies. Absolutely wrong and cannot be proved to be true! Sorry.

    But if you really prefer glass without IS/VR, well there is equipment on the market, which will satisfy your needs. But PLEASE - let the others just get what they want Thanks!
    Hi Peter
    It wasn't me that said it, it was Anders Uschold in the British Journal of Photography, after a big survey of different lenses - very techy, and very detailed survey.

    I like IS, although I find it more useful on longer lenses, and I think I prefer it on the sensor (as in the Olympus E3).

    I never meant to be luddite about this - but I'm not quite convinced how useful it would be on the 24-70 . . and actually, I suppose I could say

    "If you really want IS/VR on a lens like the 24-70 there is lots of equipment on the market which will satisfy your needs. but PLEASE - let those who like it without . . . "

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Peter
    It wasn't me that said it, it was Anders Uschold in the British Journal of Photography, after a big survey of different lenses - very techy, and very detailed survey.

    I like IS, although I find it more useful on longer lenses, and I think I prefer it on the sensor (as in the Olympus E3).

    I never meant to be luddite about this - but I'm not quite convinced how useful it would be on the 24-70 . . and actually, I suppose I could say

    "If you really want IS/VR on a lens like the 24-70 there is lots of equipment on the market which will satisfy your needs. but PLEASE - let those who like it without . . . "
    Ok, got you

    BTW - for real photography I have my M system and these lenses do not come close to any of these modern things like IS/VR or AF ....

    And for real real photography I use my M Leica's - this makes still a very big difference. But it takes time, which most of us, including myself, do obviously no longer have.

    And guess what - I still can make photos as good or even better than with my Canons or Nikons. But if I decide for one of these brands, I at least want to have all technical possibilities supported and available today. Period.

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Ok, got you

    BTW - for real photography I have my M system and these lenses do not come close to any of these modern things like IS/VR or AF ....

    And for real real photography I use my M Leica's - this makes still a very big difference. But it takes time, which most of us, including myself, do obviously no longer have.

    And guess what - I still can make photos as good or even better than with my Canons or Nikons. But if I decide for one of these brands, I at least want to have all technical possibilities supported and available today. Period.

    Quite right - I also have the M system and lenses - and the Nikon lenses, grand though they are, are no match. I agree we want all the technological possibilities, but there are always trade-offs - I'm just not certain that it would be worth it with that lens . . .

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    Quite right - I also have the M system and lenses - and the Nikon lenses, grand though they are, are no match. I agree we want all the technological possibilities, but there are always trade-offs - I'm just not certain that it would be worth it with that lens . . .
    You are right, the 24-70 is already a really good lens. But ..

    Reminds me on what could be think a new Noctilux 0.95/50 with Image Stabilization

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    Re: The 5D replacement rumor mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    adding more failure points for software and hardware.
    Oh and don't forget the most important thing.. Cost...

    Let them have all that stuff but offer you and I a version of the camera without it for $2000 less..

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