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Thread: Canon 5D Mark II

  1. #101
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    ...I was commenting that the first file linked by LCT had an extremely shallow DOF to the point that the eyebrows were OOF just as the eyelashes were starting to come into focus. And the model' right eye is not fully inside the plane of focus, from what I can tell. Therefore, most of the skin one is looking at is OOF, so it should have a smoother look that some see as "plastic". Just my thoughts on this. In the second shot, more things are in focus, and when you look at things at 100%, you can see some of the details, especially around the base of her nose. So, folks may still think all of it has a "plastic" look to it, and that is fine. I just wanted to understand what they were looking at to make those conclusions. I agree that the razor edge sharpness seems a bit smooth, but not sure what is glass, what is sensor, what is processing, what is lighting, what is shooter influenced...
    Just tweaked the pics with iCorrect (WB) and Nikon CS Pro (low to medium USM). All 100% crops.
    What do you think?
    Pic 1: 50/1.2 f/2
    Pic 2: 50/1.2 f/3.5
    Pic 3: 85/1.2 f/1.8

  2. #102
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    LCT,
    The images you are asking about are not loading for some reason. They look to be links to your mac.com posting, but I keep getting asked to log in to share your iDisk or something. Might just be my browser (Safari), but cannot comment on things as they are not posting or linking properly.

    LJ

  3. #103
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    ...The images you are asking about are not loading for some reason...
    Oops sorry it is not my own site i wonder what's happening.
    Another try:

    50/1.2 f/2:

    50/1.2 f/3.5:


    85/1.2 f/1.8:

  4. #104
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    LCT it was working when you first posted it, now it just prompts password all the time.

    mazor

  5. #105
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    LCT it was working when you first posted it, now it just prompts password all the time.

    mazor
    Ditto, idisk.mac or whatever comes up three times, asking for login and passwords.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

  6. #106
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    LCT, your image links are also creating a load error on our page, so I am deleting the links. Try using the actual full url for the images themselves and not the tiny urls...
    Jack
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  7. #107
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Ditto, idisk.mac or whatever comes up three times, asking for login and passwords.
    Sorry guys it is not my iDisk and i don't now what happens. Better attach the files directly:

  8. #108
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    DPReview has a whole sample gallery up on line that can be downloaded. They are all jpeg as there are no RAW developers yet.

  9. #109
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Yes, just had a look at those images. the high ISO images there seem a bit better, but then, taking pictures of cameras with controlled light source can be handy. at ISO 25600 the banding on the image is so bad, it can only be used for web publishing. I have some images taken with the 5D with pushed ISO 25600 approx. they look about the same.

    So far from the JPGs we have seen, the high ISO performance seems very similar to the 5D, although it is not what Canon claimed the 5D mk ii would be and should be better than than the 5D. But giving consideration for the much higher resolution sensor, I think this can be excused.

    The London Tower bridge pic taken at low ISO 200 i think, shows amazing resolution and detail, but then looking closer, the bricks on the tower, as super smooth. ie have no texture, and seems super clean. where the towers hit the water, the green moss growing on it, seems like it is painted on. It seems, Canon may have pushed noise reduction even at lower ISOs giving an exceptionally smooth image. Even the battle ship in the image, although extremely detailed appears super smooth and clean. Was this really like this. who knows.

    Mazor

  10. #110
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    check these out

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/erikfiv...7607357934354/

    Quite interesting comparing D700 at ISO6400 vs 5dmk ii at ISO6400

    Mazor

  11. #111
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    The London Tower bridge pic taken at low ISO 200 i think, shows amazing resolution and detail, but then looking closer, the bricks on the tower, as super smooth. ie have no texture, and seems super clean. where the towers hit the water, the green moss growing on it, seems like it is painted on. It seems, Canon may have pushed noise reduction even at lower ISOs giving an exceptionally smooth image. Even the battle ship in the image, although extremely detailed appears super smooth and clean. Was this really like this. who knows.

    Mazor
    I sharpened it up a bit, the detail becomes sharper but there is little more detail apparent as usually happens with a 5D image, the noise reduction is set to 'standard' and at least on smooth areas there does seem to be smoothing. On the other hand it is likely to be the sharpening alogorithm for the jpg's which ignores smooth areas, it does look like they are using a basic edge sharpening, I really don't think we can come to any conclusions until we see the RAW's.
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  12. #112
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    check these out

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/erikfiv...7607357934354/

    Quite interesting comparing D700 at ISO6400 vs 5dmk ii at ISO6400

    Mazor
    How is it interesting?

  13. #113
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Ben,

    Just thinking about how we analyze things and the conclusions we sometimes draw from those analyses.

    LJ
    It's not brain surgery. If one has extensively used other preceding Canon cameras (in all sorts of conditions) that produced the smoothing waxy look, and then sees examples of that same look on a new Canon camera ... it's natural to be suspicious and skeptical. At one time there wasn't many other choices, Canon had a lock on the FF DSLR ... that time has passed.

  14. #114
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    How is it interesting?
    A good point to elaborate on. Why do folks post a new camera's internal jpeg against their own camera's raw? I mean if you can't or don't want to convert the new camera raw, shoot your own camera in jpeg mode; at least this way we are comparing something we can draw comparisons from.

    However, that said, I want to thank Mazor for sharing the link as I think it is interesting to see just the additional jpegs; more data never hurts
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  15. #115
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It's not brain surgery. If one has extensively used other preceding Canon cameras (in all sorts of conditions) that produced the smoothing waxy look, and then sees examples of that same look on a new Canon camera ... it's natural to be suspicious and skeptical. At one time there wasn't many other choices, Canon had a lock on the FF DSLR ... that time has passed.
    Marc,
    Not disagreeing with you, but I do think that the context of experience you describe does have an influence. If you shoot a lot of people shots, and you consistently see what you describe as a waxy look, then this sort of comment for the 5DMkII may be more apropos. I shoot a lot of people also, but most are not close-up portraits, so the waxy issue never really comes into play. And I do not see it in other non-people things, so that makes it a bit harder to pin down. (Macro shots in good lighting of something like flowers or plants does not render them waxy looking, from my experience. All shots do tend to require more sharpening, and maybe that is the element that strikes me more.)

    Further, my biases against Canon is more around some colors, and whenever I see files, that tends to capture my attention faster. (A good example, even from off-hand shots linked to above comparing the 5DMkII and the D700 jump right out at me.) I think I understand what you are interpreting. For whatever reason, it does not seem quite as obvious to my eyes, and some of the initial observations were more influenced by OOF areas. Not saying that there was not a more aggressive smoothing, as there probably is, and that can create that more lifeless look at times.

    Again, I am not trying to defend the look from these shots, or from Canon in general. As you point out, for the longest time they were the only real game going. For a lot of my shooting, I was happy to be able to get rather decent shots in extremely challenging lighting conditions. Whenever NR was applied, things did get more lifeless or waxy looking, and much more so with the Canon files than anything else, so that could be an underlying quality of the files and how things break down. The resolution starts out good. Once you start to pull out luminance noise, details start to break down to a very smoothed look, more than I see with other files. Perhaps that is what is going on, and why I thought it worth looking at RAW files.

    LJ

    P.S. LCT's reposts look more than acceptable to me. They do not have the pore etching look one may get from shooting the same model with stronger sidelight and a more "clinical" rendering lens, like a Zeiss, but the softened skin looks more like what beauty retouchers tend to prefer, I think.

  16. #116
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Yes, just had a look at those images. the high ISO images there seem a bit better, but then, taking pictures of cameras with controlled light source can be handy. at ISO 25600 the banding on the image is so bad, it can only be used for web publishing. I have some images taken with the 5D with pushed ISO 25600 approx. they look about the same.

    So far from the JPGs we have seen, the high ISO performance seems very similar to the 5D, although it is not what Canon claimed the 5D mk ii would be and should be better than than the 5D. But giving consideration for the much higher resolution sensor, I think this can be excused.

    The London Tower bridge pic taken at low ISO 200 i think, shows amazing resolution and detail, but then looking closer, the bricks on the tower, as super smooth. ie have no texture, and seems super clean. where the towers hit the water, the green moss growing on it, seems like it is painted on. It seems, Canon may have pushed noise reduction even at lower ISOs giving an exceptionally smooth image. Even the battle ship in the image, although extremely detailed appears super smooth and clean. Was this really like this. who knows.

    Mazor
    Just looked through those images. I agree that they do not look too bad. Not as impressed with the ISO 25600 as I maybe was hoping. The ISO 12800 is not bad, and could serve well for some snaps....just not critical work.

    Overall, for whatever reason, most of the images looked somewhat "flat" to me. Maybe that is the contrast, saturation, sharpening defaults, or whatever, but none of the images seemed to sparkle or jump. The resolution looks good, but everything just looks too flat to me. (This is not about DOF, but more about edge sharpness and color transitions. Both look too smooth and somewhat boring. Not sure how much life can be brought back with a bit of processing magic, but initial looks are detailed bland to me.)

    Just my first impressions of JPEGs posted to the Web and viewed under all the compression and other uglies

    LJ

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    The flat look could be additional DR with the added bit depth, (which needs a steeper curve to get the pop back in the file) and that could be a good thing

    Cheers,
    Jack
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  18. #118
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The flat look could be additional DR with the added bit depth, (which needs a steeper curve to get the pop back in the file) and that could be a good thing

    Cheers,
    Good point, Jack. I had not thought about the impact of higher DR. There is a lot of detail in the shadows of several of the shots, so it could be that the overall DR is noticeably higher, therefore creating that more "flat" look. As you say, if that is the case, it is a good thing, as one can always bring stuff out as needed. At first blush, the initial JPEGs posted just looked like they needed something to make them pop a bit more. Plenty of detail, and that is good also.

    LJ

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Guys,

    I totally understand the new 5Dii isn't for all types of shooters and may lack some key features that are in the D700 which those type shooters need.

    However, I for one need the extra Mpixels. For what I shoot (landscapes with trees or bushes) and how I print (canvas), 12MP only gets me to about 20x30 with my best exposures. I am hoping 21MP gets me to 24x36 with more exposures. I don't need super weather sealing because I'm not shooting in those conditions. Better AF doesn't help me much because I'm shooting mostly manual focus lenses. Different strokes ... as they say ... the 5Dii has what was on my list (20+MP, live view, better LCD, dust system) for a very competitive price and I suspect there are many others like me.

    So, lets do some serious and fair comparison of the image quality which is what the big news of this camera ... and we need the 5Dii raw files to do that and the same lens used on both bodies.

    Also, whereas the extra pixels may not help us all but helps only some ... where it can help us all is putting additional pressure on the MF vendors to reduce their prices. If the 20MP+ in 35mm gets us closer to the MF look, that will both allow folks who can't afford a MF system to get closer to it with 35mm and drop the MF prices.

  20. #120
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboring View Post
    (...) So, lets do some serious and fair comparison of the image quality which is what the big news of this camera ... and we need the 5Dii raw files to do that and the same lens used on both bodies. (...)
    I for one fully agree, Jon, it simply doesn't make all that much sense to judge Image Quality from jpeg files out of a high end camera. Too many silly discussions in the past about exactly that topic.
    In fact I'm convinced everybody here can agree on that, and I suppose we are just smalltalking about the initial jpegs out of plain curiousity while waiting for a RAW converter that understands the 5DII RAW files.

    Btw. I've always wondered why DSLR beta testers are so often not equipped with the native software that comes along with a new DSLR camera model even if the ultimate and final software profile for the camera is not yet quite ready ?
    /Steen

  21. #121
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboring View Post
    I don't need super weather sealing because I'm not shooting in those conditions. Better AF doesn't help me much because I'm shooting mostly manual focus lenses. Different strokes ... as they say ... the 5Dii has what was on my list (20+MP, live view, better LCD, dust system) for a very competitive price and I suspect there are many others like me.

    I'd agree, though I don't know how useful live view will be. And if you crop a lot, the extra MP are valuable.
    SlŠinte

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Just redone my maths, to switch entirely to Nikon with a brace of D700's, 3 flash units, whole bunch of lenses, etc would cost me after the sale of my canon gear exactly £2300 which interestingly enough is the price of the 5D mkII! Now how's that for ironic!
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Just redone my maths, to switch entirely to Nikon with a brace of D700's, 3 flash units, whole bunch of lenses, etc would cost me after the sale of my canon gear exactly £2300 which interestingly enough is the price of the 5D mkII! Now how's that for ironic!
    But would you though. the way Canon makes their controls is somewhat different from Nikon. Guess one could get used to a different system.

    D700 seems to be the in camera, with excellent weather sealing, slightly faster default 5fps upgradeable to 8fps by adding a vertical grip and batteries. The only thing really lacking from the D700 is the ultimate resolution that the 5D mk ii offers, and of course 1080p recording, which for some will not really come into the equation.

    MAzor

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    I'd agree, though I don't know how useful live view will be. And if you crop a lot, the extra MP are valuable.
    Some say the art of photography is to be able to frame images without post cropping, ie. frame it while shooting. But I guess in reality, some find it easier to recompose on the PC. So this in turn would suit that kind of photographer.

    Mazor

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Others such as Model have said the art if finding the picture in the negative.

    I think both work. It was easy the recompose in the darkroom also as long as you didn't think there was something sacred about the diamissions of the paper. However, a variable framing easel and/or paper cutter fixed that.

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  26. #126
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    Others such as Model have said the art if finding the picture in the negative.

    I think both work. It was easy the recompose in the darkroom also as long as you didn't think there was something sacred about the diamissions of the paper. However, a variable framing easel and/or paper cutter fixed that.
    Indeed,

    Mabe in the future, we can just carry say a 50mm lens, and use super high resolution sensors, which we can crop in to simulate 400mm super zooms .

    Another term for cropping in images could be considered as digital zoom found in some mobile phone camera optics.

    MAzor

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Why not? Remember "Blowup"? Reality is what you make it.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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  28. #128
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    The thing is that you do have to crop when shooting with primes, at least for weddings which is what I do, you are shooting moments and can't always have an exact composition in the way that you can with a zoom. On the other hand there is so much resolution and sharpness shooting a 5D and primes that as long as all the necessary detail has been resolved, you just don't need any more and you have plenty room to crop before you reach that buffer in most cases. One thing that I've learned is that shooting with top primes will bring a huge boost in resolution compared to even top L zooms. Shooting group shots with my cheap 50mm f1.4 at f5.6 absolutely creams my 24-70L for detail and contrast (and I've owned 3 copies of the zoom!) and my 85mm 1.8 is much better than that even.

    It does of course boil down to your needs, if you are shooting in a controllable enviroment then you shouldn't need to crop, it's not a problem to get everything right in the viewfinder. If you're shooting in an uncontrollable situation then there is little that needs that level of resolved detail.

    I do think that 12-13 megapixels is the sweet spot for a 35mm form factor DSLR, big pixels with great DR, easy to work with files and providing good glass, enough resolution to satisfy the vast majority of needs.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 22nd September 2008 at 02:48.
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    hehe true. Will be good to see if the dynamic range from the new 5d mk ii will be improved. With 14 bit, theoretically this a supposed to be the case.

    Mazor

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    I didn't notice this link posted here: Canon 5D mkII High ISO Pictures

    Clicking the images will load a large version. Apologies if this was posted here and I missed it.

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    I didn't notice this link posted here: Canon 5D mkII High ISO Pictures

    Clicking the images will load a large version. Apologies if this was posted here and I missed it.
    Some nice samples! I like the grain of the face that ISO1600 puts on the subjects face. Cannot see much chroma noise either. That said, the images taken at high ISOs seems alot softer than the ISO800 shot, but still very usable. I have noticed though on the ISO800 shot, the hair has become water colored. Personally I would prefer noise grain over this.

    Mabe Canon will see this and correct it in the final release 5d mk ii

    Mazor

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II


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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Terry is just trying to plug her old city

    But thanks for the links all the same

  34. #134
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Chris. The irony in your comment is that for one week every year most New Yorkers wish we didn't live here and this is that week. The UN General Assembly is in session and we have all the world leaders with their staff and security trying to get around the city. Charming!
    Last edited by Terry; 23rd September 2008 at 07:05.

  35. #135
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Terry - been in NYC during such UN sessions - nothing but commuting hell.

  36. #136
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Truly impressive!

    It cannot be downloaded any longer

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    I have searched and have not found what I need to know.

    After thinking about it. I may be able to use the video part of this camera more than I originally thought.
    Does anyone know if you can shoot unlimited amounts of video or is this a 30 second clip camera??

    Thanks

    Steven

  38. #138
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Steven:

    Somebody will surely have the exact spec, but I think I remember reading it's 4 GB chunks which translate to roughly 3 minutes or so of full res video at one time... So a 16G card and you could basically have 12 minutes of video.
    Jack
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Steven:

    Some of the details are addressed Here. Michael R. mentions a 13 minute limit due to the 4GB FAT 32 file size limitation. I suppose that firmware updates may address this. His remarks pertain to a pre-production sample of the camera.

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    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Thanks Jack and Dale..
    I checked out the review and sample vid he had up.

    I think it will be fine for shooting what I need it to. I do some weddings with the Canon GL2 so this would make a good companion camera and it would be way easier to use on location shoots. 1 less camera bag to cart around and keep track of..
    Looks like i'll be getting one as soon as I can. I guess I also need to upgrade my computer to handle the file size when editing..
    And being able to plug the card into the card reader is a lot easier than transferring form the camera.

  41. #141
    asabet
    Guest

    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Here's an ISO 800 JPEG from Romy Ocon that shows off the image quality pretty well -> http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/ima...12263/original

  42. #142
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Canon 5D Mark II

    Here is a link to all the images he has from this test day.

    Some interesting stuff here. The screen grabs and the 3200 ISO image. Very interesting..

    http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/5dm2

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