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Canon 5D Mark II
- Thread starter Chuck Jones
- Start date
Chuck Jones
Subscriber Member
Heck, today you got to keep up with the Mancusos! The Jones clan went broke a couple years ago trying to keep up with technology :ROTFL::ROTFL:I'm getting one too... gotta keep up with the Jones's
Ben Rubinstein
Active member
Mike, have a read:
http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/resolution.shtml
The idea is that the more pixels you squeeze into a smaller space the faster diffraction becomes a problem when stopping down. My 5D isn't diffraction limited at f11, the 1Ds mkIII is.
http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/resolution.shtml
The idea is that the more pixels you squeeze into a smaller space the faster diffraction becomes a problem when stopping down. My 5D isn't diffraction limited at f11, the 1Ds mkIII is.
A
asabet
Guest
True, but at no f-stop will diffraction will ever bring your 1Ds III resolution down to below your 5D resolution. The reason your 5D isn't limited by diffraction at f/11 is that its big, clumsy pixels aren't perceiving enough detail to record the fact that the lens is resolving less detail at f/11 than it was at f/8. It is only because the 1Ds III is capturing such fine detail that lens diffraction (which is the same whether the lens is on a 5D or on a 1Ds III) becomes the weakest link.
Assuming it lives up to spec and there are no 'gotchas' anywhere, the camera offers a lot of iQ for the $$ - as it should as the costs/MP for the electronics drop year/year. Same pricing model as computers - more bang for relatively speaking the same $$$ with each product cycle.
That said, everyone has different needs/wants. I'll sacrifice some MP for a clean VF and more D700-D300 like body/sealing. Assuming the 5DII will have the same variable mfg tolerances as the 5D did (they have to cut costs somewhere), I'd give up some MP for the knowledge that I don't have to juggle shims everytime I change focus screens, etc. YMMV.
On the some of us are 1/2 empty vs 1/2 full; if the 'wait until we see images' request were to be adhered to by those who think some of us are 1/2 empty, we should ALL be saying NOTHING praising or critiquing the body until the right tests are done. However, that is in an ideal world ;>. Our responses are based on what we see on paper so far - they may change (one way or the other) as things move fwd in real world tests.
For me, it's a mixed bag. For others, obviously not. Horses for Courses. I never buy new anyway, so I'm looking fwd to seeing some 'early adopter' experiences.
That said, everyone has different needs/wants. I'll sacrifice some MP for a clean VF and more D700-D300 like body/sealing. Assuming the 5DII will have the same variable mfg tolerances as the 5D did (they have to cut costs somewhere), I'd give up some MP for the knowledge that I don't have to juggle shims everytime I change focus screens, etc. YMMV.
On the some of us are 1/2 empty vs 1/2 full; if the 'wait until we see images' request were to be adhered to by those who think some of us are 1/2 empty, we should ALL be saying NOTHING praising or critiquing the body until the right tests are done. However, that is in an ideal world ;>. Our responses are based on what we see on paper so far - they may change (one way or the other) as things move fwd in real world tests.
For me, it's a mixed bag. For others, obviously not. Horses for Courses. I never buy new anyway, so I'm looking fwd to seeing some 'early adopter' experiences.
Mike Hatam
Senior Subscriber Member
Ben - I guess if you shoot mainly at f11 or higher, it could be a concern. In that case, you're probably shooting landscapes, architecture, or critical macro work. In any of those cases, I would think that the extra megapixels would far outweigh the situations where diffraction limitations would come in to play.
Rob,
Rightly or not, I will take that barb since I did mention the "half empty" in my comments. However, I made those comments precisely because so many folks seem to be trashing a camera from which none of us have seen any real images yet. So, I agree with you, in part, that those that are unhappy or pessimistic about Canon's new offering are entitled to their opinions and thoughts, they should wait to see the images before tossing the baby with the bathwater on this camera. It could be a dud, but it could also amaze some folks, just as the 5D did when it was introduced. I guess I just do not understand what it is that people are wanting or expecting from some of these tools. Most already provide more than the majority of users will ever be able to realize. And for that small group of much more discerning folks with special needs, there are or will be other tools. None of any of these cameras can do it all to everyone's needs. Canon, and Nikon, have been pretty good at trying to create offerings that they think will appeal to a very large customer base they target, and it does seem to work. I just think it is great to see how rapidly things keep advancing, and how some of these tools are really incredible. Sure, lots more to come, and we keep hoping and wishing, which is fine, but a lot of what is out there now exceeds the capabilities of an awful lot of users already.
LJ
P.S. For the record....a fair amount of my stuff gets printed pretty big from crops of my lowly 8MP 1DMkII camera, and nobody seems to complain about that. The also now defunct 1DsMkII produces even more stunning stuff for printing. I never bought into the 5D because I did not see it doing anything for my shooting needs. This new camera may not either, but I am pretty sure it will do a lot more for an awful lot of folks unless its images totally suck. So, we should wait to see the images, as you comment, but there appears to be a lot to like about this offering.
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LJ - no barb intended. Please don't think otherwise.
As long as we ALL keep things in perspective and realize that everyone's wants/needs/ perceptions are different, such discussions stay fun and a intellectually stimulating.
I agree - the pace of advancement is startling - and I think skewing our perspectives.
I think Jono S said it well in a post some threads ago (I'll summize) - the camera doesn't matter, the the subject captured and the story/emotions imparted is ALL that matters..
The best pictures in history were captured with gear that some of us now would relegate to the back of our closets...
As long as we ALL keep things in perspective and realize that everyone's wants/needs/ perceptions are different, such discussions stay fun and a intellectually stimulating.
I agree - the pace of advancement is startling - and I think skewing our perspectives.
I think Jono S said it well in a post some threads ago (I'll summize) - the camera doesn't matter, the the subject captured and the story/emotions imparted is ALL that matters..
The best pictures in history were captured with gear that some of us now would relegate to the back of our closets...
LCT
Member
5DII skin tones look somewhat placticy so far. Any comment?
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/2864152009_e5acf93b84_o.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/IMG_0309.JPG
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/2864152009_e5acf93b84_o.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/IMG_0309.JPG
Rob,
I was not offended at all. As I had commented, it is amusing to watch the ebb and flow of emotions and comments over something that was just announced and almost nobody has used. To see how a camera's capability and performance were being judged by a press release (complete with questionable accuracies, confusing wording, and flat out mis-reading by some), when there was nothing else to go on.
Many of us may have lived through the M8 release....I have, and despite all the glitches, problems, screw-ups, etc., that 10MP camera with NO AF, NO 98% viewfinder, low ISO capabilities, etc., etc., still is capable of capturing images of quality that are hard to match. It is so far from perfect that it is worth laughing about, but it does things that few others can, despite all its flaws and warts. The present 5D has its own things, some significantly improved with the 5DMkII....at least in spec, others maybe not so much. But I would wager that it too will be able to do an outstanding job in the hands of somebody that can use it for what they shoot.
Let's see some good images to see just how good or not this thing is :thumbs:
LJ
Boy, way too hard to tell what you mean here. If the "plasticy" look is being attributed to the large OOF areas that cove most of these very shallow DOF shots..... The stuff that is in sharp focus does not look like plastic to my eyes.
Guess it helps to understand what part of the image one wants to critique.
LJ
woodyspedden
New member
As I have stated many times, and I think most folks agree, if you are not printing really large you just don't need this many pixels, particularly if making the pixels smaller degrades image quality.
Having said that, I am constantly impressed with what wonderful technology has been brought to bear to have cameras that work really well at pixel dimensions we would not have dreamed possible only two or three years earlier.
Although I am primarily a Nikon shooter, I used a 5D with great success for several years with my Contax and Leica R glass. I finally gave up, not because of any flaws in the 5D but rather that I got sick of stop down metering etc.
So now Canon has virtually doubled the pixel count and one could hardly see any features whereby they went backwards in terms of functionality or quality. Yes the AF is not the modern state of the art but it is no worse than the current 5D. And other features are at least as good as the old 5D and the other features such as pixel count is a clear step upward.
As always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The only way to judge the image quality of the Mark II is to take pictures and see. It won't take long, using a first rate lens, to determine if the sensor is not in the league of the 1DSMkIII. If not, the 5D has been rushed to market to take on the losses being incurred by the presence of the D700, and sales will simply plummet.
We'll see
Just my thoughts
Woody
Having said that, I am constantly impressed with what wonderful technology has been brought to bear to have cameras that work really well at pixel dimensions we would not have dreamed possible only two or three years earlier.
Although I am primarily a Nikon shooter, I used a 5D with great success for several years with my Contax and Leica R glass. I finally gave up, not because of any flaws in the 5D but rather that I got sick of stop down metering etc.
So now Canon has virtually doubled the pixel count and one could hardly see any features whereby they went backwards in terms of functionality or quality. Yes the AF is not the modern state of the art but it is no worse than the current 5D. And other features are at least as good as the old 5D and the other features such as pixel count is a clear step upward.
As always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The only way to judge the image quality of the Mark II is to take pictures and see. It won't take long, using a first rate lens, to determine if the sensor is not in the league of the 1DSMkIII. If not, the 5D has been rushed to market to take on the losses being incurred by the presence of the D700, and sales will simply plummet.
We'll see
Just my thoughts
Woody
Personally I'm tired of getting chased by the depreciation dragon (even buying used) - no interest in moving 'up' to any new DSLR. Also very tired of the endless new DSLR techno-comparisons and debates. My 1Ds2 renders amazing pics with Zeiss, Leica CV and Hassy, Mamiya glass - LV and auto ISO would be nice, but I'll live.
I may move laterally to a used M8 + basic cropped DSLR kit to shake things up a bit - or just simply stand pat, settle my glass down to a SMALL handful of lenses and concentrate on my B&W conversion techniques and printing. When I get REALLY tired of stop-down I'll think of Zeiss ZE - or an entirely different approach.
As much as I think the new 5DII was a yawn, that is also how I treat ANY new DSLR announcement of late - with a big mental shrug. Same, #$%^, more MP, different day. Must be getting old.
I may move laterally to a used M8 + basic cropped DSLR kit to shake things up a bit - or just simply stand pat, settle my glass down to a SMALL handful of lenses and concentrate on my B&W conversion techniques and printing. When I get REALLY tired of stop-down I'll think of Zeiss ZE - or an entirely different approach.
As much as I think the new 5DII was a yawn, that is also how I treat ANY new DSLR announcement of late - with a big mental shrug. Same, #$%^, more MP, different day. Must be getting old.
I like to think of it as finally getting more wisdom and ability to be discerning.
Like you, although there are some great new toys out there and more on the way, nothing is really shaking me from the rafters, and with a bit of effort, I can probably make my aging DSLRs keep delivering for me too.LJ
johnastovall
Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
To me the 5DII is a big deal as I can now have a backup for my 5D. I'm slowly building up a business and worry about not having one. In a pinch the RD-1 can backup up the M8 but nothing since I got ride of the 20D on the dSLR front I've been exposed.
And ISO 25600, handheld by moonlight now? I love shooting in the darkness and this with the Canon 50/1.0 can be whole new world.
And ISO 25600, handheld by moonlight now? I love shooting in the darkness and this with the Canon 50/1.0 can be whole new world.
Mark Gowin
Member
I remember back when the original 5D was announced, the forums were filled negative opinions. In fact, I recall more negative than positive prognosticators. in a rare moment of extra disposable income and good timing, I bought a 5D the day the became available and grew to love the camera immediately. I wasn't alone - it wasn't long after 5D made into public hands that the it was gaining praises from most everyone.
The 5DmkII specs look impressive to me and I will get one if it has an updated focus system as good as the 40D. I find the 40D focuses much faster and more accurate than the original 5D. I do not want a 3 year old focus system in a new camera.
Mark
The 5DmkII specs look impressive to me and I will get one if it has an updated focus system as good as the 40D. I find the 40D focuses much faster and more accurate than the original 5D. I do not want a 3 year old focus system in a new camera.
Mark
johnastovall
Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
The power management looks interesting but new batteries and chargers. Lets see I now carry two chargers for the 5D, one for the M8, one for the RD-1 and one for the GR-DII. So I'll be up to seven chargers now and 15 batteries.
C
carbonmetrictree
Guest
Even if I sold my 1dsMk3, I'm still pissed! LOL. The specs are really great, don't get me wrong. It's just that I feel like even if I did rebuy Canon gear, the next model would come out in a few months, not even giving anytime for the market to saturate themselves with the new cameras. I remember purchasing a 20D for $1600 back in 2004 and I waited...who knows how long until the 5D came out.
Plus, on a side note. I am going to graduate soon with my BFA degree and when Canon came to Art Center for a vendor fair, I asked all of the reps if they had educational pricing. They said "No, we don't do that kind of stuff here, ever". But a few months later, a friend pulled up an official PDF from Canon with educational prices. Companies don't have to be transparent, but I would at least appreciate it if they didn't lie to their consumers.
Plus, on a side note. I am going to graduate soon with my BFA degree and when Canon came to Art Center for a vendor fair, I asked all of the reps if they had educational pricing. They said "No, we don't do that kind of stuff here, ever". But a few months later, a friend pulled up an official PDF from Canon with educational prices. Companies don't have to be transparent, but I would at least appreciate it if they didn't lie to their consumers.
So did I Andrew! I however am waiting a few more hours to see if the new 5D specs and pricing really are all that... If so, I'll probably own it as soon as it's available; 21 MP, ISO 25,600 and $2600 US is pretty darn compelling
But yeah, I don't like them much as a company either,
ChrisDauer
Workshop Member
Am I the only one who thinks that they put the gapless microlen technology into their 1Ds4? Which may be out sooner than we think? And given what I've heard re: 50D specs -> full frame = 31-35 MP? Plus whatever other goodies they are throwing into the mix.
(myself, it's all about the self cleaning sensor!!!) Everything else is just a bonus.
(myself, it's all about the self cleaning sensor!!!) Everything else is just a bonus.
ChrisDauer
Workshop Member
My current favorite aspect of my 20D (converted to IR), 40D, and 5D. I can swap 6 batteries between 3 cameras. And I usually bring 2 charges + power strip, so I can recharge 2 Canon batteries and 1 leica M8 battery from a single wall outlet.