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Thread: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

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    Super Duper
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    I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Well, I have officially cancelled my 1DsMKIII order until a LOT more info is available and a LOT more images are out there for review. My dealer was not happy, but @ $8,000., come on now, you HAVE to be blown away, not left wondering.

    I have to be straight up honest, I took this action because I also am NOT thrilled with the images from the 1DMKIII either ... and I've been working with this camera for some time now shooting thousands of wedding images.

    In truth, my heart sunk when I got home from shooting my first wedding with it. "WTF" came to mind when faced with so many images that needed so much post attention. "Well", I said to myself, "you need to set this all up better, after all it is a different camera". Many months later, much twiddling with settings and post techniques, I'm still NOT a happy guy. Others may be pleased as punch, I am NOT. The stuff is okay, but not what I've come to expect from Canon. There's just a smeary softness to the images shot in low light with fast L glass. Makes me wonder if Canon over AA filtered this camera also? I don't buy into "all is well" because people post nice shots taken in nice light ... with God knows how much post done ... I don't have that luxury.

    I sold my 5D and 1DsMKII in anticipation of these two new cameras, now I have to figure out what to do before next wedding season starts. I need two really fast AF cameras. At least one has to have dual memory card slots for supreme back-up of "one chance" shots.

    The thought of switching back to Nikon makes me cringe. All this L glass sitting there begging for a better camera. It's enough to make you lose your mind.

    Your thoughts?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    I hear you Marc --- smeary softness and not being blown away by IQ, at least not without a lot of post. FWIW, I'm not all that impressed by the D3 files either, so I'm not sure the switch to Nikon would buy you anything. It's too bad you off'd your 5D and 1Ds2 --- if you had them, at least you'd be up and running until this all gets sorted out.

    I'm emailing you a CS aciton to try on your 1D3 files --- it should add some punch at the inter-pixel level. Once you get it tweaked for that camera you can un-check the stops and batch it. It may at least help shorter term, and if so, you could pick up another 5D as back-up to it.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Never did like Canons.

    Play with a D3 if you get a chance.
    Maybe that could make you happier.
    I am afraid that the rush to claims of high iso at low noise may be causing overly-strong AA filters in all of them.
    I have hopes for the D3 though.
    Meanwhile, I am very happy with the IQ on the M8, but I worry about them and their inability to provide good service except to the chosen few.

    Maybe next time I call it should be "Hello, this is Guy Mancuso and I am staying at a friend's house."

    Anyway, I am still waiting and it has been six weeks so far and I have NO information and one body and one lens in New Jersey, and a lens in Germany.

    Nikon has turned around one body and one lens in that time for no charge.

    We will see.
    -bob

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Many thanks Jack. Other than the image quality (duh!), the 1DMKIII camera is amazing ... fast, responsive, stable, etc. But jeeze-o-peezo, all the post work is killing me.

    Look forward to your e-mail and trying the action.

    What's with the D3 stuff? The spec's are impressive, and I figured a full frame @ 12 meg would be a nice balance. Not so huh?

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by rwfreund View Post
    Never did like Canons.

    Play with a D3 if you get a chance.
    Maybe that could make you happier.
    I am afraid that the rush to claims of high iso at low noise may be causing overly-strong AA filters in all of them.
    I have hopes for the D3 though.
    Meanwhile, I am very happy with the IQ on the M8, but I worry about them and their inability to provide good service except to the chosen few.

    Maybe next time I call it should be "Hello, this is Guy Mancuso and I am staying at a friend's house."

    Anyway, I am still waiting and it has been six weeks so far and I have NO information and one body and one lens in New Jersey, and a lens in Germany.

    Nikon has turned around one body and one lens in that time for no charge.

    We will see.
    -bob
    Man, I hear you on that Bob. I have been in technical Hell the last two weeks. I was getting very, very mixed results from my M8s, and finally hired my friend Irakly who reviews equipment for publications to take the whole mess away and bench test everything using his perfect spec M8. Both of my M8 rangefinders were off. 4 of 7 lenses were miss calibrated, and all four were newer purchases. the 50/1.4 ASPH had been back to Leica twice and was worse upon return than when first sent.

    I finally sent a letter to my Leica dealer of 15 years who has intervened on my behalf and in no uncertain terms has gotten their attention at Leica. I put the entire kit in a Lowpro bag, put that in a Pelican case, wrapped it in bubble wrap and boxed it as fragile and sent it at my dealers expense to Leica NJ.

    Now well see what they can do with what I consider a $30,000. paper weight until they fix it all to professional specifications one would expect from Leica.

    To be continued ...

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    I just hope they don't screw up the forthcoming 5Dxx. I have to have a back up to my full frame kit. I thought the 1DsMkIII would be that and a step up but I've not seen it. If the 5Dxx is as soft as the sMkIII and doesn't have a killer 6400, I may just try to get a new old 5D and go with that. i've just got too much L glass to change.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I just hope they don't screw up the forthcoming 5Dxx. I have to have a back up to my full frame kit. I thought the 1DsMkIII would be that and a step up but I've not seen it. If the 5Dxx is as soft as the sMkIII and doesn't have a killer 6400, I may just try to get a new old 5D and go with that. i've just got too much L glass to change.
    Same here ... a ton of L glass, and great interest in the new 200/2 IS when it arrives. I may have to revert to a 5D also, but not happy about it since I hated that camera's handling, sound and response ... good images though.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Just think guys... in about a year we'll have a full frame (or larger) Leica R10 with AF. Whether it is fast AF or not is up in the air. Best part is, smeary images is not what Leica is all about.

    Dealing with what we have today for FF...

    I've played with the D3 a bit, but have not tested it critically or even really taken a good look at the NEF files. One of my customers has been nice enough to loan me his D3 for a little bit so I can get a feel for it. So far I'm very pleased with the camera, but real shooting is necessary to determine IQ.

    David

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Marc - I guess it all gets down to canon's implemented philosophy. It seems that they want to push a 'look' down people's throats based on their interpretation of what photographs should look like.
    I prefer the more neutral files I get from Leica - and I am very happy to sacrifice some megapixels - especially when the standard print size isn't impacted.
    On the other hand - I am very upset to hear of your issues with the M8 and lenses.. I made the decision to stick with an old 50 summilux and a proven 28 - only purchasing a 21mm recently - because of the fact that it will take a while for Leica to get their quality control up to spec - since previous management let so many people go when they were in trouble.

    Marc - you use your gear to make money so every issue is a serious issue - right now for you. I am looking forward to the developments that will come from full frame sensors from Leica over the next couple of years - but in the meantime working pros - have some tricky decisions to make I guess. I do believe that we are seeing a peak in technology in 35mm CaNikon land - and all we are going to get from CaNikon is marginal improvements on the same theme.I say again though that the M8 and lenses experience you are going through is pretty scary.
    As for My Canon outfit - it is all going. Unlike you, I dont have a pro need for fast autofocus - and that is basically the only thing that CaNikon have over Leica - at the moment... the good news is that you should be able to pick up a 1dsmk11 and 5D really cheap -

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    What's with the D3 stuff? The spec's are impressive, and I figured a full frame @ 12 meg would be a nice balance. Not so huh?
    Hi Marc:

    Here is a review by Lloyd Chambers on his blog showing 1Ds3 files directly with D3 files set up with a mouse-over. I know Lloyd, and think he knows how to test DSLR's --- you can bet these were the best he could muster from each camera. Note that they all aren't in bright, high-contrast light Frankly both sets of images make me shake my head... Scroll down a few entries: http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/blog.html

    PS: Did you get the actions I sent?

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Thank you for the link, Jack. I think the difference between the 1Ds MarkIII and D3 is more than obvious and it was to be expected as the Canon with its 21MP is almost double that of the Nikon. I am impressed with the resolving power of the 21MP camera . That A/B comparison shows definitely more than your test did, let's say between the 1Ds MarkIII and the 5D. What could possibly be the cause of that? The 5D is not a better camera than the D3, resolution-wise, is it ? Easy on me here, guys. I am just asking a question and not inviting any flames.

    Joshua

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Hey Jack, no I never got the actions.

    try direct @

    [email protected]

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Joshua:

    I think there are a lot of possible explanations and I don't know for sure what any of them might be. I think that Lloyd's files show about the same performance from the 1Ds3 as mine did. I also suspect BOTH the 1Ds3 and D3 have stronger AA filters AND more aggressive NR routines to accommodate the high-ISO performance. Given those two factors, I would infer the 5D looks better than the D3 at the same approximate sensor resolution due to the AA and or NR, and therefore the 5D also appears closer to the 1Ds3 resolution-wise than the D3 does.
    Jack
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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Well, in the last few minutes a friend sent me some exceptional shots w/ the 1Ds3. Full 21 MP of glory. I'm impressed. Very very impressed. I don't know how much work was put into making them impressive, and I was told there was some additional JPG artifacting that wasn't there in the originals, but WOW.

    Perhaps compared next to something else it would not be as impressive. But next to anything I'm using; I'm very impressed. If I had taken that test image, I'd be quiet pleased.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Marc:

    Here is a review by Lloyd Chambers on his blog showing 1Ds3 files directly with D3 files set up with a mouse-over. I know Lloyd, and think he knows how to test DSLR's --- you can bet these were the best he could muster from each camera. Note that they all aren't in bright, high-contrast light Frankly both sets of images make me shake my head... Scroll down a few entries: http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/blog.html

    PS: Did you get the actions I sent?

    Cheers,
    Jack

    While I generally agree with Lloyd's competency as a tester, in this case he readily admits that he is at the beginning of his discoveries with these cameras and is changing his mind about the outcomes each day. It will be interesting to get his (final?) views when he has completed both his objective testing and much more of his subjective testing. Owning neither camera I have no predisposition towards either so will welcome his review conclusions.

    By the way, for those who have not seen Husbands reviews of the Nikon 14-24 on hia 16-9 website, he used a 5D and raves about the lens. Perhaps equally important for Canon shooters he is going produce his prototype Nikon G lens to EOS adapter so you can control aperture on the 5D or 1Ds. The standard old adapters from companies like Novoflex will not work on the lenses which have only electronic control of aperture.

    Woody Spedden

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Joshua:

    I think there are a lot of possible explanations and I don't know for sure what any of them might be. I think that Lloyd's files show about the same performance from the 1Ds3 as mine did. I also suspect BOTH the 1Ds3 and D3 have stronger AA filters AND more aggressive NR routines to accommodate the high-ISO performance. Given those two factors, I would infer the 5D looks better than the D3 at the same approximate sensor resolution due to the AA and or NR, and therefore the 5D also appears closer to the 1Ds3 resolution-wise than the D3 does.
    Jack

    I would have thought that the primary reason for the Nikon noise performance is the use of the lower noise CMOS sensor. It inherently should have significantly less noise than the previous CCD sensors. I also would have thought that the AA filters would have been less agressive (particularly for the 1DsMkIII) given the increase in pixel density. The D3 of course has the same pixel density as the previous D2X but on a larger sensor thus bigger photosites ergo better signal to noise

    Woody

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    hubsand

    once the 5d adapter shows up, i'm very interested in that nikkor 14-24

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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    hubsand
    once the 5d adapter shows up, i'm very interested in that nikkor 14-24
    ditto! I was contemplating the 16-35II; but the 14-24 makes that choice so much more simple.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Chris, any chance you could get him to post those images here ... or give you permission to post them?

    This is a real dilemma for me since I was really counting on the 1DsMKIII for my wedding kit.

  20. #20
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    I have looked at the raw files from the Los Gatos "Ristorante" test shots from DOP, click here , scroll down, three raw files available. I ran them thru CS3 CR 4.3.1 and found the results very impressive.

    Granted my experience with digital is all Canon, currently 5D and L primes (except 85 1.8), wish I had the same lens and scene shot w/5D for comparison.

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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Chris, any chance you could get him to post those images here ... or give you permission to post them?

    This is a real dilemma for me since I was really counting on the 1DsMKIII for my wedding kit.
    I will ask and get back to you.

  22. #22
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Mac I feel your frustration…

    I’m sure many of the issues with the new cameras will be sorted in due course but that’s no help to those who actually need to work with the stuff immediately. What I find particularly aggravating is that the manufacturers release these products “half finished” and its basically up to the working community to sort out the issues. They should be ready to go right off the bat but I can’t think of any digital platform that has been able to do this.

    I’ve looked hard at Canon for years but have never taken to qualities of the imagery produced. I don’t need high ISO performance nor zippiddy do-dar AF. It comes down to the quality/qualities of the file and I have to say the Canons just do nothing for me. My Hassy rep calls it “paint-by-numbers” photography but he would say that I guess.

    I guess it all gets down to canon's implemented philosophy. It seems that they want to push a 'look' down people's throats based on their interpretation of what photographs should look like.
    Yeah have to agree with that...Canon reps (here at least) have put a lot of effort into “educating” the market as to the look of photographic imagery. Being up front about “photographic softness” as desirable quality in a photograph. I kid you not.

    Coming from an LF and Leica background “smeary softness” never enthused me that much. So Canon have known about the “smeary softness” for years and I don’t hold any belief that they will change their attitude.

    I also don’t for the life of me understand the Canon fetish for bolting on third party optics and going the stop-down route… you might as well shoot a Leicaflex (down Doug down).

    It is nothing short of pathetic that the EF lens range does not fully and adequately support the technology in bodies.

    But lets face it these Cameras are primarily designed for a particular job set where the end product is more often than not printed out at 90 DPI on toilet grade paper.

    I want to be excited buy the results and the MF backs are getting there but the available Camera platforms and dearth of choice leave me cold. As I’m a dials over buttons-and-menu man I did very much like the Contax. Dial controls are just a more human friendly interface and I would argue a more user efficient system.

    ooh sorry for long post we got into rant rant mode

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Hey Jack, no I never got the actions.

    try direct @

    [email protected]
    Ah, had an older email for you... Just resent, so let me know!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post
    Well, in the last few minutes a friend sent me some exceptional shots w/ the 1Ds3. Full 21 MP of glory. I'm impressed. Very very impressed. I don't know how much work was put into making them impressive, and I was told there was some additional JPG artifacting that wasn't there in the originals, but WOW.

    Perhaps compared next to something else it would not be as impressive. But next to anything I'm using; I'm very impressed. If I had taken that test image, I'd be quiet pleased.

    I was very impressed with the file too... Until I compared it critically with the identical image from the 5D and 1Ds2. I think the biggest problem with most of the other posts raving about the 1Ds3 is they are only showing the 1Ds3 files by themselves. Without a comparison to an identical image from known camera it makes it more difficult to draw a meaningful conclusion...

    My .02...
    Jack
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Yep, it is frustrating. I'm unusually crabby because I'm smack in the middle of a big Tsunami of bull-crap right now, and just about every piece of technology I own is conspiring to push me into the loony bin.

    None of my Leica M8 gear works correctly (I traded in my M6s & 7s for this heartache?), The Canon 1DMKIII has to go back for an AF recall (they can't tell me when), The 1DsMKIII is a question mark, my Hasselblad CFE to H camera CF lens adapter stopped working, even the H3D/31 started acting up during today's commercial shoot. The icing on the crap cake is they shipped a Dual Core Mac Pro instead of the Quad Core I ordered.

    LOL : -(

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Ah, had an older email for you... Just resent, so let me know!
    Got them Jack, thank you. Will try them when I next process Canon 1DMKIII files.

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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Chris, any chance you could get him to post those images here ... or give you permission to post them?

    This is a real dilemma for me since I was really counting on the 1DsMKIII for my wedding kit.
    Well, I'm able to get back to you sooner than I thought. The real issue here is file size. I have been given five images and approval to share/send them. The smallest JPG is just under 12 MB. The largest is just under 23 MB. The other 3 are around 20 MB each.

    If your email will take a file that big, I'll happily send it, but I can't post it here on GetDPI (I can't even post my little 20D shot that's 2MB and 3522 x 2348).
    Plus, I'm not sure 5616 x 3744 would display? So I'm open to suggestions on getting the files to you?

    I'll follow it up with, there is some artifacting in the JPG that aren't in the original Tiffs. The smallest file size (and my least favorite image) was shot w/ a 50/1.4 at about f10. The other 4 images are shot in groups of two. First at 14/2.8, and the second at 24/2.8. All were processed w/ lightroom 1.3.1. All with a bit of sharpening in lightroom radius as low as it goes. Then I think about 40-50. They could still use some sharpening in photoshop.

    NOTE: None of the photos were taken by me.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post
    Well, I'm able to get back to you sooner than I thought. The real issue here is file size. I have been given five images and approval to share/send them. The smallest JPG is just under 12 MB. The largest is just under 23 MB. The other 3 are around 20 MB each.

    If your email will take a file that big, I'll happily send it, but I can't post it here on GetDPI (I can't even post my little 20D shot that's 2MB and 3522 x 2348).
    Plus, I'm not sure 5616 x 3744 would display? So I'm open to suggestions on getting the files to you?

    I'll follow it up with, there is some artifacting in the JPG that aren't in the original Tiffs. The smallest file size (and my least favorite image) was shot w/ a 50/1.4 at about f10. The other 4 images are shot in groups of two. First at 14/2.8, and the second at 24/2.8. All were processed w/ lightroom 1.3.1. All with a bit of sharpening in lightroom radius as low as it goes. Then I think about 40-50. They could still use some sharpening in photoshop.

    NOTE: None of the photos were taken by me.
    yousendit.com is a great way to send large files.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post
    Well, I'm able to get back to you sooner than I thought. The real issue here is file size. I have been given five images and approval to share/send them. The smallest JPG is just under 12 MB. The largest is just under 23 MB. The other 3 are around 20 MB each.

    If your email will take a file that big, I'll happily send it, but I can't post it here on GetDPI (I can't even post my little 20D shot that's 2MB and 3522 x 2348).
    Plus, I'm not sure 5616 x 3744 would display? So I'm open to suggestions on getting the files to you?

    I'll follow it up with, there is some artifacting in the JPG that aren't in the original Tiffs. The smallest file size (and my least favorite image) was shot w/ a 50/1.4 at about f10. The other 4 images are shot in groups of two. First at 14/2.8, and the second at 24/2.8. All were processed w/ lightroom 1.3.1. All with a bit of sharpening in lightroom radius as low as it goes. Then I think about 40-50. They could still use some sharpening in photoshop.

    NOTE: None of the photos were taken by me.
    Many thanks Chris !!!!

    Just go to www.SendThisFile.com and send them full sized to me @

    [email protected]

  30. #30
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    BTW, here is a post on LL where a guy posts shots with the M8+21 against 1Ds2 and 1Ds3 with 28 Leica R at f8. (Of course he later compares the 28R to the Canon lens and everybody is surprised at how bad the Canon lens was ) Frankly, I think the M8 shows darn well against twice as many pixels in that first set...

    http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=21553
    Jack
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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I was very impressed with the file too... Until I compared it critically with the identical image from the 5D and 1Ds2. I think the biggest problem with most of the other posts raving about the 1Ds3 is they are only showing the 1Ds3 files by themselves. Without a comparison to an identical image from known camera it makes it more difficult to draw a meaningful conclusion...

    My .02...
    I hear what you are saying. Myself, I see it as two sides to the same coin.
    I feel there are two specific tests to run here.
    1.) How well does it do by itself?
    2.) How well does it do compared to others?

    I may be looking more towards #1 right now, but my thought is that if I'm happy with the image, I'm happy with the image, right?

    [this is my biggest problem w/ post-production and the motivation for a thread I started called, To Sharpen or Not To Sharpen, in the Image Processing forum]

    Don't get me wrong. My first Canon L lens was the 16-35. Comparing it to my lenses of the day, it was incredible! Comparing it to my lens today, I'm ready to drop kick it out the door. It's still the same lens. It did what I needed it to do when I needed it. It doesn't do what I need it to do now. The 1Ds3 has an insane amount of resolution potential (compared to 35mm digital), and with the right lenses looks simply incredible.

    Just something to consider,

    -C
    Last edited by ChrisDauer; 17th December 2007 at 18:21.

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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Many thanks Chris !!!!

    Just go to www.SendThisFile.com and send them full sized to me @

    [email protected]
    You should have 5 very large emails. Please let me know if you have any issue getting them.

    -Chris
    Ps. I reiterate, I took none of the photos in question, but do have permission to share with others.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    I realise thisis slightly OT - but since Marc is having misery right now - I dont want make a big mistake.

    I followed Jack's link to the article on 1dsmk111 files and whilst there searched the site and came across a brief review of the HD3-39. It seems that this man believes his files from Canon 1DMK111 are actually superior to the big boy blad.

    Now I am quite concerned - because I quite like the Leaf files I get from my Aptus 75 - and I certainly see NO COMPARISON between a Leaf 31 megapixel file or my 1dsmk11.

    Is this perhaps the same article that people referred to in teh medium format forum when talking MFDB and criticism of teh big boy blad??

    I have sent the reference to my blad dealer - and look forward to his feedback - before I take reciept of my new 39 megapixel camera - sheesh!!!

  34. #34
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Hey Fotografz,

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the images I sent (win, lose or draw); please post comments!

    -C

  35. #35
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Marc on getting things calibrated on the Leica side I would recommend DAG. Everything that I have sent him came back working flawlessly no matter how off it was before. I had him check my M8's finder as soon as I received it (it was dead on) and every used lens I buy I figure a trip to DAG into the price.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post
    Hey Fotografz,

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the images I sent (win, lose or draw); please post comments!

    -C
    Thanks for sending those Chris. I've been taking my time playing around with them ... my desire was to get my hands on a couple of files and see how they printed ... which is the way to compare, not on the web.

    In my honest opinion it doesn't appear that great a difference from my 1DsMKII files. But it IS only 5 meg more ... I thought maybe the 14 bit would make more difference in IQ. It appears incremental at best.

    Not bad mind you, I used a 1DsMKII for a couple of years with good results.

    I do not subscribe to the use of adapted lenses on these cameras ... if I didn't need the swift AF, fast shooting, and high ISO capabilities of a DSLR I wouldn't even own one of these cameras. I need IQ with-in those perimeters.

    So, evaluation for me has to take into account what else this camera has to offer in terms of speed, flexibility, LCD accuracy, live viewing, etc. I have a general idea of that from using the 1DMKIII now for some months.

    The question comes down to is it worth $8,000.? ... which I've yet to determine.

  37. #37
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I do not subscribe to the use of adapted lenses on these cameras ... if I didn't need the swift AF, fast shooting, and high ISO capabilities of a DSLR I wouldn't even own one of these cameras. I need IQ with-in those perimeters.

    The question comes down to is it worth $8,000.? ... which I've yet to determine.
    Excellent points all. Particularly the point on swift AF, fast shooting, 35mm format, etc.; as there-in lies the questions.

    My own thoughts (for what they are worth).
    $8,000? No.
    Sell the old one for 4-5k, and buy the new one when it's around $7k? Likely.

    But in all things, it's subjective to your needs. If I already owned a 1 series camera (which I do not), I think it would be worth a $2-3k upgrade fee if I use it for 1-3 years of use. But if I came into $8000 of cash suddenly, I'd be more likely to pick up an M8 + 1 lens; because of how much fun I had with the Rangefinder.

    Good luck on your future decision.

  38. #38
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post
    Excellent points all. Particularly the point on swift AF, fast shooting, 35mm format, etc.; as there-in lies the questions.

    My own thoughts (for what they are worth).
    $8,000? No.
    Sell the old one for 4-5k, and buy the new one when it's around $7k? Likely.

    But in all things, it's subjective to your needs. If I already owned a 1 series camera (which I do not), I think it would be worth a $2-3k upgrade fee if I use it for 1-3 years of use. But if I came into $8000 of cash suddenly, I'd be more likely to pick up an M8 + 1 lens; because of how much fun I had with the Rangefinder.

    Good luck on your future decision.
    I think this is more the criteria for a sane evaluation. I HAVE to make a decision because my wedding business fires back up on March 1st and I have to have two DSLRs capable of shooting a black cat in a coal mine at midnight ... which nothing does as well as these type cameras.

    These are not the only cameras I use, but are the main wedding cameras for what I sell. When my M8s come back from Leica service, I'll evaluate if I even need a second DSLR ... at least maybe not one at that price point. maybe just the new 5D replacement will do just fine as a back-up.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Graber View Post
    Marc on getting things calibrated on the Leica side I would recommend DAG. Everything that I have sent him came back working flawlessly no matter how off it was before. I had him check my M8's finder as soon as I received it (it was dead on) and every used lens I buy I figure a trip to DAG into the price.
    Thanks Hank !!! I'm letting Leica take one more crack at all this ... then if that fails DAG will have to be the answer. I will not be a happy camper to shell out more cash on this system, but now I'm in so deep I have to get it spot on.

    My intent was to really get back to M work for my wedding photography like I did with film Ms ... and not have to rely on DSLRs so much, which affected my style in a negative way.

    I have to get this sorted out soon, I have weddings starting up again in early 2008.

  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Marc is your repairs in NJ.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I have to get this sorted out soon, I have weddings starting up again in early 2008.
    Rumor has Canon announcing something Jan 24th.
    But if it IS a 5D replacement, it's unlikely we'd see it until after Weddings Crashers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Season, is in full swing. So your choices will likely be the 1D3, 1Ds3, the old stuff, and the M line-up (plus all your wonderful Medium/Large format gear).

  42. #42
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks Hank !!! I'm letting Leica take one more crack at all this ... then if that fails DAG will have to be the answer. I will not be a happy camper to shell out more cash on this system, but now I'm in so deep I have to get it spot on.

    My intent was to really get back to M work for my wedding photography like I did with film Ms ... and not have to rely on DSLRs so much, which affected my style in a negative way.

    I have to get this sorted out soon, I have weddings starting up again in early 2008.
    With the rebirth of Leica with the M8 not only is Leica service swamped but the good independent guys are backed up as well. Better stay after Leica and if you need DAG for what ever is still not up to snuff call Don at DAG and explain your situation.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Marc is your repairs in NJ.
    Yes. My first M8 never had the hardware fix, so I suppose that'll go off to Germany and take longer. All the rest, my entire kit: 2 M8s and 7 lenses, (except the WATE) is there to be calibrated.

  44. #44
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Marc:

    Just curious as to where you've ended up in the should I or shouldn't I get a 1Ds3 question? I know you want it to be a different camera than it is, but I think my question for you is more like is it going to be better than other alternatives?

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  45. #45
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Marc:

    Just curious as to where you've ended up in the should I or shouldn't I get a 1Ds3 question? I know you want it to be a different camera than it is, but I think my question for you is more like is it going to be better than other alternatives?

    Cheers,
    No answer yet Jack. So, when in doubt, wait.

    My M8s are in Leica Limbo, and I'll wait until they get back to worry about what to do regarding the Canon. I swear, I cannot recall spending so much time on dealing with the means to take photos instead of spending it on taking photos.

    Maybe I'll just dump the whole works for a brace of M7s along with the 203FE and go back to shooting film for weddings ... LOL.

  46. #46
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Waiting isn't bad. Plus, w/ newer firmware releases, some of the issues you may have had might be cleared up. Not likely, but you never know.

    Firmware updates are usually good things, and 1.0.6 was just released for the 1Ds3.

  47. #47
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    My M8s are in Leica Limbo,
    Maybe I'll just dump the whole works.

    Hey Marc,

    You should DEFINITELY dump the M8's. Specifically, around say May of 2008. Clearly they are nothing but problems. Do you have one that's chrome?

    ...and the buzzards begin to circle.

    -C
    Last edited by ChrisDauer; 20th December 2007 at 10:59.

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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Sorry Chris, "Stealth Black" only.

  49. #49
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    LOL ... into the abyss of contradiction I descend.

    My Canon dealer called with an 1DsMKIII offer I couldn't refuse ... and I just can't do a wedding without two DSLRs ... so I went for it ... Hahahahahahahahahahahahah ...

    It's me who has lost his mind, not Canon.

    Will report back on my take (after I secretly write actions to manipulate the files : -)

  50. #50
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: I honestly wonder if Canon has lost their minds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ... My Canon dealer called ...
    Shouldn't that be Canon pusher?

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