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Thread: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

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    1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    I did some more comparisons today. I used the canon 1DsmkIII with the leica 100mm macro and compared against the Hasselblad H2/leaf aptus 65 with the 120mm HC macro. I moved the camera to try to get the image area to be the same. The images were shot mirror lockup, with a remote shutter release, f16, iso 100. I processed both in CS3 the same way except that for sharpening I used 0.25/0.5/0.25 for the leaf files and 0.5/0.5/0.5 for the ctanon. I did a very minimal levels adjustment to both and as the very last step I did a smart sharpen of 100/0.3 to both. The area of focus is just above the center green X I placed on the rock. The apparent DOF will be a little different due to moving the camera and the image size. First, I show both fields resized.The second images are 100% crops. If you have any issues with this test please I am not easily offended.

    Leaf field of view

    Canon field of view

    Leaf crop

    Canon crop
    Last edited by mark1958; 16th December 2007 at 17:48.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Mark

    You should try to get a copy of the latest Photo Techniques Magazine in which Mark Dubovoy compares the 1DsMkIII with the Hassy h3D and Fuji lens, the Hassy H2D with the same lens but the Phase One P45+ back, and the Linhof monorail 5x4 with P45+ back and Rodenstock lens. very interesting indeed

    Woody Spedden

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Okay, perhaps I'm a simple neophyte; but these both look really good to me.

    As for test and testing styles and standards; there are so many and to each their own.

    Myself, I like all test to be based on two things.
    Straight out of the camera, what do I get?
    Post Processing, what is the very best image I can get?

    Basically it boils down to wanting to know, at the end of the day, what is the best possible image produced from each machine. And how much effort does it take to get there.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    The Leica lens seems to do a better job.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    I have no idea how to evaluate this comparison.

    The subject matter is difficult to view with an eye toward determining ... ah ... what?

    In the end, to constantly try to justify one camera by comparing it to another when the spec's are so out of whack seems weird to me.

    Both may be 22 meg, but the sensor size of the Aptus is much larger, is 16 bit, and doesn't employ an AA filter. I did the same whacky test between a Canon 16 meg 1DsMKII and a lowly 16 meg Kodak Proback on a 555ELD, and the Hasselblad murdered the Canon in IQ ... which was a real disappointment since I seriously hoped to avoid upgrading digital backs. Plus, I have to be honest, when I got my first Aptus is was a 22 meg version and it murdered the ProBack in IQ.

    The Canon 1DsMKIII isn't a miracle worker and just isn't going to defy physics. Yes there can be mitigating factors like the use of Leica's excellent 100/2.8 Macro ... so use a Zeiss Macro on the H camera if you think the H/C lens isn't up to snuff ( which I personally seriously doubt ).

    The Canon MKIII has increased it's meg count by 5+ meg., has gone to 14 bit and improved it's internal workings .... which should provide an incremental improvement from the MKII version ... if the AA filter doesn't equalize or lessen them. Additional operational and functional aspects should further make it an incrementally improved camera compared to the previous model.

    It's value is in the using for what it was designed to do ( horses for courses) ... tough, weather sealed, fast operation, high enough quality images to allow cropping if desired, lower light candid work, and so on. In these areas of photography, I do not confuse my H3 cameras with my Canons any more than I confuse my Canons with the H3s when it comes to my commercial advertising photography.

    If the primary subject is to be static objects like rocks , logs or buildings I can think of a myriad choices other than an $8,000. Canon.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    If you have any issues with this test please I am not easily offended.
    Hi Mark
    Interesting and difficult comparison - my only question is that (as I understand it) diffraction will set in with the 1DsmkIII at a much wider aperture than f16 (I'd have thought that even f8 was questionable).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Mark:

    I noticed your Hassy and Leaf back on sale on Photo.Net, so I asume you made your decision... Good luck with your sale and keep us posted on your prgress with the new Canon!

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Canon MKIII has increased it's meg count by 5+ meg., has gone to 14 bit and improved it's internal workings .... which should provide an incremental improvement from the MKII version ... if the AA filter doesn't equalize or lessen them. Additional operational and functional aspects should further make it an incrementally improved camera compared to the previous model.
    I know the last thing you want to do after blowing 8 G's on a camera is turn around and spend another $400-500 more; but if the AA filter is you biggest concern, why not have it removed?

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Marc.. I know my testing of the petrified wood was not the best to test a number of different issues related to IQ. I did this because I was interested in the resolution differences using the best glass on both cameras. The leica 100mm.2.8 macro is the best 35mm I have used in this focal range. I think that many of the tests posted on the internet have used sub-standard L glass in their comparisons. Jack used the 135mm/2.0, which is one of canon's best albeit I do not think quite as good as the 85/1.2 in terms of resolving power but perhaps I am wrong. I also like to do macros so I feel this is a reasonable comparison for the intended purpose of the test. When i did some comparison shooting there is no doubt, the color accuracy and DR was better with the leaf back and hasselblad H2. I also think the skin tones are better with the leaf. However, I will say that my initial dislike for the canon on skin tones is not as severe as I originally thought but they still have too much red. I was using my laptop and someone had messed up my monitor profile when they used my computer for a ppt presentation. I have since re-calibrated and all is well. BTW, the aptus back I was using is 27 megapixels. I agree that there are so many parameters that make up IQ but for this last test, I had one intent in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I have no idea how to evaluate this comparison.

    The subject matter is difficult to view with an eye toward determining ... ah ... what?

    In the end, to constantly try to justify one camera by comparing it to another when the spec's are so out of whack seems weird to me.

    Both may be 22 meg, but the sensor size of the Aptus is much larger, is 16 bit, and doesn't employ an AA filter. I did the same whacky test between a Canon 16 meg 1DsMKII and a lowly 16 meg Kodak Proback on a 555ELD, and the Hasselblad murdered the Canon in IQ ... which was a real disappointment since I seriously hoped to avoid upgrading digital backs. Plus, I have to be honest, when I got my first Aptus is was a 22 meg version and it murdered the ProBack in IQ.

    The Canon 1DsMKIII isn't a miracle worker and just isn't going to defy physics. Yes there can be mitigating factors like the use of Leica's excellent 100/2.8 Macro ... so use a Zeiss Macro on the H camera if you think the H/C lens isn't up to snuff ( which I personally seriously doubt ).

    The Canon MKIII has increased it's meg count by 5+ meg., has gone to 14 bit and improved it's internal workings .... which should provide an incremental improvement from the MKII version ... if the AA filter doesn't equalize or lessen them. Additional operational and functional aspects should further make it an incrementally improved camera compared to the previous model.

    It's value is in the using for what it was designed to do ( horses for courses) ... tough, weather sealed, fast operation, high enough quality images to allow cropping if desired, lower light candid work, and so on. In these areas of photography, I do not confuse my H3 cameras with my Canons any more than I confuse my Canons with the H3s when it comes to my commercial advertising photography.

    If the primary subject is to be static objects like rocks , logs or buildings I can think of a myriad choices other than an $8,000. Canon.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Mark:

    I noticed your Hassy and Leaf back on sale on Photo.Net, so I asume you made your decision... Good luck with your sale and keep us posted on your prgress with the new Canon!

    ,
    Yes, good luck with your new camera Mark. All the best.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    I can say that DPP makes a huge difference. I am shocked. I had not used DPP in some time because not only was the interface horrible but the result was not too good.. Now only the interface sucks.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Mark

    You should try to get a copy of the latest Photo Techniques Magazine in which Mark Dubovoy compares the 1DsMkIII with the Hassy h3D and Fuji lens, the Hassy H2D with the same lens but the Phase One P45+ back, and the Linhof monorail 5x4 with P45+ back and Rodenstock lens. very interesting indeed

    Woody Spedden
    I would second the recommendation to see this article. While the results were predictable it was obvious that sensor technology is ahead of the optics ..with the exception of the Rodenstock lenses which were the deciding factor. I am hopeful that Leica will give the sensor to match the optics in the R10.

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    Re: 1dsmkIII&leica R vs Hassy/Leaf macro

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    I would second the recommendation to see this article. While the results were predictable it was obvious that sensor technology is ahead of the optics ..with the exception of the Rodenstock lenses which were the deciding factor. I am hopeful that Leica will give the sensor to match the optics in the R10.
    Roger

    The other thing I found fascinating was how much better the H2D and P45+ back was compared to the H3D with the Hassy 39Mpx back. I wouldn't have predicted this at all. For the most part it sounds like Phase One is doing things right with these new + backs.

    Woody

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