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Thread: TS-E time

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    TS-E time

    I just bought the 17MM TS-E and the 24MM TS-E for my architectural shooting. I normally shoot Nikon's D600 and D4, but they do not offer equivalent lenses. So I decided for my architectural shooting to move over to the dark side.

    I visited the National Cathedral for some interior shots. Getting used to the controls on the Canon is a little challenging, Nikon has more hard switches and fewer sub-menus, but I'll figure it out quickly, I've owned the 5D and 1Ds Mk III before.

    First thing to mention is that Canon's knobs on the TS-E lenses are bigger and easier to access than Nikon's munchkin knobs. There is also a lock on the tilt position so I can't accidentally move it, screwing up an otherwise good shot. I did that several times with the 24MM PC-E. These two lenses also have the advantage of full rotation in any tilt movement, another BIG bonus.

    There are two views of the pulpit, one shot with the 17, one with the 24, just to show the perspective differential. So far I like what I see, the color rendering is just fine, I'm seeing no barrel distortion in the 17, and resolution is holding well in almost full shift position.
    Last edited by aboudd; 12th February 2013 at 04:27.
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    Re: TS-E time

    Congratulations on your new acquisitions. I own both too. I never had before, film or digital, in any format, lenses with so much wow factor like these two. I use them for arch and interiors. The 24 is my favorite for landscapes.
    Eduardo

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    Re: TS-E time

    I use the 17 ts-e mostly for interior shots. I've never used the tilt function but almost always use the shift-for horizontal and vertical shots. Occasionally, the overhead lights will cause one or more lens flares but they are (usually) easily fixed in ps.
    Last edited by GlenC; 29th December 2012 at 08:12.
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    Re: TS-E time

    Great images gentlemen!.
    I think it is time for me to purchase the Canon TS-E 17mm and 24mm now.
    Of course as soon I purchase the Canon optics, Nikon will probably announce their new versions! lol
    Quote Originally Posted by GlenC View Post
    I use the 17 ts-e mostly for interior shots. I've never used the tilt function but almost always use the shift-for horizontal and vertical shots. Occasionally, the overhead lights will cause one or more lens flares but they are (usually) easily fixed in ps.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by nikonf View Post
    Great images gentlemen!.
    I think it is time for me to purchase the Canon TS-E 17mm and 24mm now.
    Of course as soon I purchase the Canon optics, Nikon will probably announce their new versions! lol
    Thank you- Rumor has it that Canon is coming out with updated versions of their ts-e 45mm and ts-e 90mm in 2013. Should be a good set to have.

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    Re: TS-E time

    I really wish they would design a new 35mm TSE. This was a great focal length that Canon and Nikon discontinued. The Nikon did not have tilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenC View Post
    Thank you- Rumor has it that Canon is coming out with updated versions of their ts-e 45mm and ts-e 90mm in 2013. Should be a good set to have.

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    Re: TS-E time

    I also own the Canon 24 TS-E and use it for both architecture and landscapes, always on a tripod. Of the seven L series Canon lenses I own, the 24mm is probably the sharpest. It brings back fond memories of shooting with a 4x5 view camera. As much as I would like to buy the 17mm TS-E, I cannot justify the cost for the limited amount of use it would get.
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    Re: TS-E time

    I have the 24 II and the 90 and, like Mark, would like to also own the 17 but can't quite justify it. While the 90 hasn't been updated, I'm not sure the lens needs it, at least not in terms of sharpness. Axis rotation would be nice to have, like the 24 II, but I can work without it. The 45, which I had for a couple years, could use an update to deal with its CA and corner performance deficiencies.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Rumors say Canon is coming next year with new 45 and 90 TS's and possibly an all new TS of different FL. I'd love the 90 to get macro capabilities.
    Eduardo
    Last edited by Uaiomex; 30th December 2012 at 12:24. Reason: typo

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    Re: TS-E time

    Tilt/shift lenses are the only type i don't have in my collection, so i really thinking about getting it, but i don't know out of 4 model lenses from Canon, which one to get? I can't get them all or 2 at once, so which one to start with?
    Tareq

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    Re: TS-E time

    The 24 II is a good one to start with, but it really depends what subject matter you are shooting, and hence the fundamental question of which focal length you need!

    The 17 and 24 are both new-ish, and the 45 and 90 are due for an update! At the end of day you really need to ask yourself if you need it, either for architectural subject matter of creative use! I ended up selling my 24 II TSE because I didnt end up using it the way I intended creatively and always opted for my 24mm L II that could autofocus, and this was especially true when I was travelling, usually with family! Just something to consider despite the urge to splurge when you see great use of tilt-shift lenses!
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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    The 24 II is a good one to start with, but it really depends what subject matter you are shooting, and hence the fundamental question of which focal length you need!

    The 17 and 24 are both new-ish, and the 45 and 90 are due for an update! At the end of day you really need to ask yourself if you need it, either for architectural subject matter of creative use! I ended up selling my 24 II TSE because I didnt end up using it the way I intended creatively and always opted for my 24mm L II that could autofocus, and this was especially true when I was travelling, usually with family! Just something to consider despite the urge to splurge when you see great use of tilt-shift lenses!
    Ok, i will see which FL i need most then choose the lens, it is really difficult as i shoot different applications which means i use different FLs, between 16 up to 50mm.
    Tareq

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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    The 17 and 24 are both new-ish, and the 45 and 90 are due for an update!
    Have you shot with the 45 or the 90 ?

    They're going to hard pressed to improve on them. They're both very sharp lenses with few faults. The original 24 was always a soft lens and the 17 took us into new territory. Updates could happen, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the 45 or 90, both are standards in the profession. Shoot the 90 side by side with anything you own that's comparable in focal length, say the updated 100 for example, and you'll see how good it is.

    And updated lenses don't necessarily garner you anything you need. My original 85 1.2 L is doing just fine, the updated version was only marginally improved and in areas that don't matter to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Ok, i will see which FL i need most then choose the lens, it is really difficult as i shoot different applications which means i use different FLs, between 16 up to 50mm.
    You can crop from the 17, and you can use a teleconverter on it to get 23.8mm, it's that sharp. And the 16-35 L zoom, version 1 or 2, is a great lens. So you have options. Whether you really need tilt-shift should be your first question.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Hi Kirk,

    No I haven't shot with the 45 or 90, but I heard they are superb optically, however, I hear they are still up for an update and agree with what you have said. It is either to put them in line with the rest of the lenses, either on an marketing point of view, and subtle updates to coatings used etc. Anybody's guess really! I was really stating their condition with respect to their suggested timeline.

    I'll also add right now the 45 and 90 are at great price points, and as suggested by Kirk they are great lenses optically. If trends are anything to go by I cannot see their replacements being cheap. Seems like newer lenses are reaching $2k price points. Although the question remains if the update is to get ready for their new high MP release and if the current ones are good enough already and IF you need it!
    Last edited by pophoto; 6th January 2013 at 09:09.
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    Re: TS-E time

    TSE-17MM...
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    Re: TS-E time

    I have all the Canon t/s lenses plus the Zeiss and Oly 35 shifts. I would not put the 45 anywhere in the same league as the rest. It's just not very sharp anywhere but the very center and has way too much color fringing. It was an okay lens for occasional film use, but just doesn't cut it in today's hi-res digital realm.

    The 17mm t/s, which no one was expecting when it came out, has proven to be a real game changer for me, allowing images that would have been next to impossible to make prior to its release.

    Here are two shots I've done in the last month for AMS Neve, the mixing console company from the UK. They wanted to show the console, but wanted it prominent, not small in the middle of the room like all their previous images. I shot these with the camera vertical, shifted left, right and center while sliding the body in a RRS clamp to compensate, keeping the lens effectively stationary, then, after blending exposures for each section, finally stitched the three together for final post production. The stitch makes it somewhere around 12-1/2 or 13 mm equivalent.
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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    I have all the Canon t/s lenses plus the Zeiss and Oly 35 shifts. I would not put the 45 anywhere in the same league as the rest. It's just not very sharp anywhere but the very center and has way too much color fringing. It was an okay lens for occasional film use, but just doesn't cut it in today's hi-res digital realm.

    The 17mm t/s, which no one was expecting when it came out, has proven to be a real game changer for me, allowing images that would have been next to impossible to make prior to its release.

    Here are two shots I've done in the last month for AMS Neve, the mixing console company from the UK. They wanted to show the console, but wanted it prominent, not small in the middle of the room like all their previous images. I shot these with the camera vertical, shifted left, right and center while sliding the body in a RRS clamp to compensate, keeping the lens effectively stationary, then, after blending exposures for each section, finally stitched the three together for final post production. The stitch makes it somewhere around 12-1/2 or 13 mm equivalent.
    Very impressive images. Inspirational. Thanks for sharing. Mal

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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    I shot these with the camera vertical, shifted left, right and center while sliding the body in a RRS clamp to compensate, keeping the lens effectively stationary, then, after blending exposures for each section, finally stitched the three together for final post production. The stitch makes it somewhere around 12-1/2 or 13 mm equivalent.
    Would you mind clarifying this for a guy who has a 17 and used to have a 1972 Neve ?

    So you used the RRS rail, slide the camera but didn't use the shift on the lens ? It's the 'effectively stationary' part where you lost me.

    This Neve was made for the BBC as a TV production mixer in 1972. After having it shipped to the U.S. it took 3 weeks to reassemble and re-wire, but the classic British sound was worth it. And yes, that is a 24 track tape deck sitting behind the ProTools rack. Both were sold for 10% of what they cost after just a decade. And like film still looks better than digital, tape still sounds better than digital.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Do my eyes deceive me?
    Looks like you are using some lovely vacuum tube equipment!
    I am still listening to AtmaSphere OTL Monoblocks with Coincidence Tube Preamp and Quad ESL 63 speakers.

    Nice to know others can appreciate real sound!

    All the best and keep the faith,
    Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Candlish View Post
    Would you mind clarifying this for a guy who has a 17 and used to have a 1972 Neve ?

    So you used the RRS rail, slide the camera but didn't use the shift on the lens ? It's the 'effectively stationary' part where you lost me.

    This Neve was made for the BBC as a TV production mixer in 1972. After having it shipped to the U.S. it took 3 weeks to reassemble and re-wire, but the classic British sound was worth it. And yes, that is a 24 track tape deck sitting behind the ProTools rack. Both were sold for 10% of what they cost after just a decade. And like film still looks better than digital, tape still sounds better than digital.

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    Re: TS-E time

    "Would you mind clarifying this for a guy who has a 17 and used to have a 1972 Neve ?

    So you used the RRS rail, slide the camera but didn't use the shift on the lens ? It's the 'effectively stationary' part where you lost me."

    Since there's no way to effectively mount the Canon lens to the tripod and just slide the back (camera), you have to do a little dance with the RRS clamp to accomplish that. You do both - slide the camera AND shift - simultaneously. The RRS clamp already has marks scribed at 12mm left and right of the center, so you start with your camera centered and lens centered, then shift left and slide right, then shoot with everything centered, and finally shift right and slide left 12mm. The effect is that even with the shift, the lens stays in the same spot, eliminating any parallax that would have been caused by simply moving the lens. It's a convoluted way of doing a rear shift on a view or technical camera, and while a bit awkward, is quite effective. Until I (or someone else) comes up with a tripod clamp for the lens, this is going to have to be the solution.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    "
    Since there's no way to effectively mount the Canon lens to the tripod and just slide the back (camera), you have to do a little dance with the RRS clamp to accomplish that. You do both - slide the camera AND shift - simultaneously. The RRS clamp already has marks scribed at 12mm left and right of the center, so you start with your camera centered and lens centered, then shift left and slide right, then shoot with everything centered, and finally shift right and slide left 12mm. The effect is that even with the shift, the lens stays in the same spot, eliminating any parallax that would have been caused by simply moving the lens. It's a convoluted way of doing a rear shift on a view or technical camera, and while a bit awkward, is quite effective. Until I (or someone else) comes up with a tripod clamp for the lens, this is going to have to be the solution.

    Could this be what you're thinking of?
    Canon TSE Tripod Collar

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    Re: TS-E time

    That's funny because it's exactly along the lines I was thinking of designing for myself, but I'm not sure that over 500 Euros is what I had in mind. I'll have to think about that one.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by nikonf View Post
    Do my eyes deceive me?
    Looks like you are using some lovely vacuum tube equipment!
    I now have a matched pair of the VIPRE tube mic preamps, the big black pre in the photo. I sold the Manley, it was nice but nothing special. After working with tape you need tubes in front of ProTools because digital is cold and nasty on it's own. I use Music Reference and Quicksilver amps for playback but don't have enough room for Quads.

    Tubes are like film, they just do a better job. Distortion that's enjoyable and natural sounding. When film looses detail it usually does it with grain you don't mind looking at. Digital noise we spend hours correcting so we don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    Since there's no way to effectively mount the Canon lens to the tripod and just slide the back (camera), you have to do a little dance with the RRS clamp to accomplish that. You do both - slide the camera AND shift - simultaneously....
    Ahhh, now I get it. Thanks!

    I've done the same thing using the RRS macro rail and stitched the images but I wasn't shifting and I didn't shooting anything close enough to have the parallax issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenC View Post
    Could this be what you're thinking of?
    Canon TSE Tripod Collar
    Damn that looks like the way to go.

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    Interior shot with TS-E 24

    Contemporary kitchen with stainless steel counters.
    Last edited by aboudd; 12th February 2013 at 04:27.
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    Re: TS-E time

    I ordered the Hartblei lens collar a few days ago. Unfortunately, you can only buy it directly from Hartblei. Their preferred payment method is a wire transfer which will run you $30 or they will take PayPal. The U.S. price with currency conversion, PayPal fees and shipping came to somewhere around $650.

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    Re: TS-E time

    Here's the setup instructions in English from the actual manufacturer. I think it'll be a good investment. Please do post once you're received it and had a chance to shoot with it.

    http://www.propsolution.de/resources...uction-net.pdf

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    Re: TS-E time

    Okay, I got the Hartblei in the mail yesterday. I guess it took about a week from Germany to L.A. Not bad. It's very well machined and finished and even has an Arca Swiss style foot machined into the base. The base is drilled with 3/8 threads and even though the website said it came with the 1/4 in. bushings, they were nowhere to be seen. Oh well.

    Unfortunately, the Arca Swiss foot built in is NOT compatible with my RRS lever clamp. It's too loose with just a hint of play and you can "walk" the adapter in the clamp if you try. So this probably means another ninety bucks for a new screw clamp head, I guess. Oh well.

    The fit of the adapter to the lens is perfect. No play. No slop. You don't really need the instructions to figure it out and the only ones that came with the unit had only a few word in English, the rest in German. Thankfully, my German is okay.

    The thing that is probably going to bother me the most, and it's only a cosmetic thing, is that after putting it on to my 24 T/S only twice, I can already see very small marring where the adapter slides on to the lens. I don't know if there is any way around that, given the tolerances, but that certainly is a bit of a disappointment. But, since the lens is a tool and one I'm not likely to get rid of any time soon, that will have to part of the price of ownership.

    In the meantime, while I waited for the adapter to arrive, I ended up doing a 24mm T/S product shot in the studio. No tilts or shifts, but thirty-nine focus slices cobbled with Helicon. Thought I'd shoot my new flashlight before it got bunged up.
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    Re: TS-E time

    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    The fit of the adapter to the lens is perfect. No play. No slop. You don't really need the instructions to figure it out and the only ones that came with the unit had only a few word in English, the rest in German. Thankfully, my German is okay.
    Are the English instructions I posted above not correct for the adapter ?

    They're from the manufacturer that Hartblei buys the adapter from.


    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    The thing that is probably going to bother me the most, and it's only a cosmetic thing, is that after putting it on to my 24 T/S only twice, I can already see very small marring where the adapter slides on to the lens. I don't know if there is any way around that, given the tolerances, but that certainly is a bit of a disappointment.
    That is unfortunate but when you think about it the lens would need to have an anodized finish in order to not mar.

    Thank you very much for posting your experience with the adapter. I hope you'll post some images from working with it as well.

    Nice flashlight shot!

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