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Thread: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

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    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
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    Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    We know the 1Ds Mark III is coming but which lens would you anticipate to bring the magic out of this sensor? I am planing to put the Distagon T* 2.8/21 and the Leica Apo-Summicron-R 2.0/180 on it.
    Last edited by PSon; 8th November 2007 at 21:36. Reason: for clarity
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Son.. I realize that there is some gain in the non canon lenses at the focal lengths about 50mm... but for me their weakness is still wide angle. Therefore, I think the 21mm distagon and 35mm PC are the two I will keep for that system. One exception may be the 100mm macro. I still think this lens is so much better than canon macro lens options. Since most macro is Manual focus anyway-- why s tick with canon here. Of course for me I want to really see the difference between the 1DsmkIII and my Medium format set up. I am seriously considering going back exclusively to 35mm format for now.
    Mark

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Mark i really think there will be a lot of issue's with the new 1dsMKIII and many of the Canon lenses will not match the the sensor. I think it is a wise decision to hold onto the Zeiss glass you have today. I also suggested on another site until i got the boot again that folks may want to start building there Leica glass for the canon because when the leica R10 comes out they have another option to use there glass. Zeiss as we know is a one way street so folks need to think ahead a little and make some choices for the future with leica coming down the path. This whole DSLR arena is going to change in a drastic way i predict and a lot more aimed directly at the MF backs. It will certainly be interesting to see what unfolds here.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Let me guess the 28mm R... I liked that leica lens. Have you ever used the Leica 28mm PC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Mark i really think there will be a lot of issue's with the new 1dsMKIII and many of the Canon lenses will not match the the sensor. I think it is a wise decision to hold onto the Zeiss glass you have today. I also suggested on another site until i got the boot again that folks may want to start building there Leica glass for the canon because when the leica R10 comes out they have another option to use there glass. Zeiss as we know is a one way street so folks need to think ahead a little and make some choices for the future with leica coming down the path. This whole DSLR arena is going to change in a drastic way i predict and a lot more aimed directly at the MF backs. It will certainly be interesting to see what unfolds here.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    "This whole DSLR arena is going to change in a drastic way i predict and a lot more aimed directly at the MF backs."

    This reminds me of the car ad where all the competition shoots arrows directly at the new model ... and all of them miss : -)

    Real Estate is real Estate. Whatever happens in sensor technology, happens on a larger scale with MF digital. It's just physics.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    LOL very true Marc but the prices need to come down on MF, you know this as well as anyone. Your pocket must go on fire as soon as a upgrade is announced
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Well, the most recent Leaf Aptus 75s upgrade was $3,000. The new Canon is $8,000. less what you can get for an existing 1DsMKII now that everyone knows the new one's here : -)

    No doubt, in terms of initial investment the MF backs are killer, but I've sunk almost as much into 1 series Canon DSLRs as the Leaf and two rounds of upgrades both of which were completly new units in exchange for the old ones.

    The difference is that I've been able to charge a digital capture fee (rental) based on going rental house rates for the MF back(s) that the Art Directors and buyers demand for a lot of the work we do. The cost of the Canons just comes off the bottom line for weddings, event and corporate PR work.

    In terms of ROI, that has evened the playing field to a great degree.

    But it really depends on what kind of work you do, and how versatile those applications are. The backs are used in studio on a Rollei Xact, in the field on the H camera, occassionally include the use of film backs on the H camera, and even for some high end wedding work where ultimate clarity is required ... like shooting 200 people in one shot.

    Once you use a back ... it's hard to go back : -)

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    I am not holding my breath for the high end MFDB's to come down in price. But the Mamiya ZD is relatively affordable. Probably can get into that back and an RZ Pro IID for close to the same price as the new Canon. Of course they are entirely different kits but the Mamiya glass is top notch. Having both the Aptus 75S and the ZD (please, don't ask), I can honestly say that the Mamiya is a far better value for the money.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    I am not holding my breath for the high end MFDB's to come down in price. But the Mamiya ZD is relatively affordable. Probably can get into that back and an RZ Pro IID for close to the same price as the new Canon. Of course they are entirely different kits but the Mamiya glass is top notch. Having both the Aptus 75S and the ZD (please, don't ask), I can honestly say that the Mamiya is a far better value for the money.
    Hi, I would be interested to know why you are suggesting the RZ Pro and not the 645?
    Thanks
    Volker

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    Son.. I realize that there is some gain in the non canon lenses at the focal lengths about 50mm... but for me their weakness is still wide angle. Therefore, I think the 21mm distagon and 35mm PC are the two I will keep for that system. One exception may be the 100mm macro. I still think this lens is so much better than canon macro lens options. Since most macro is Manual focus anyway-- why s tick with canon here. Of course for me I want to really see the difference between the 1DsmkIII and my Medium format set up. I am seriously considering going back exclusively to 35mm format for now.
    Mark
    Dr. Kay, I agree with you that the alternative wide angle lens are the key to the Canon system in full frame.
    Son
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    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by volkerhopf View Post
    Hi, I would be interested to know why you are suggesting the RZ Pro and not the 645?
    Thanks
    Volker
    Volker,
    Not to speak for David, but he has too many systems already including the Contax 645 system and thus he does not need to get the Mamiya 645 system. The Mamiya 645 system is a nice setup with 2 exceptions that drive me crazy: 1. the mirror dampening, 2. the lens working distance is not close enough for me and 3. No waist level finder to do facilitate landscape and macro/copy work with the auto bellows system. However, this system is such a bargain and it is great for folks to try out medium format.
    -Son
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Regarding to the comments on upgrading in the medium format system: I know a few photographers choose not to upgrade their medium format backs because they are extremely happy with the current backs. The newer back offer higher ISO and speed but not too much on the IQ than the current or older version backs. Instead of upgrading in each cycle, they choose to skip every other cycle in their upgrade. Thus, the cost for upgrading is lower than one would suggested. On the other hand the 135 mm system, an upgrade is almost a must since the IQ is still behind the MFDB system. Remember, the Gold Standard is what need to be reached and if you are close enough you do not need to upgrade but if you are still far away shorten the reach to the standard is almost a must.
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Hi Son,
    Do you see the mirror dampening just as a noise problem or do you think there is an effect on picture quality. If it is a picture quality problem from what speed on would you see a quality deterioration?
    Regards
    Volker

  14. #14
    DougDolde
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    There must be some Canon L lenses that would work well on this camera. The question is which ones?

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    There must be some Canon L lenses that would work well on this camera. The question is which ones?
    My top picks: Any white prime (L telephoto), the 135 L, 200 L and 90 TSE. After that, you're going to need Leica or Zeiss glass to eek the best this camera has to offer. After that, the 35L, 50's 45 TSE, 85 and 100 will probably be at least in the very good category. None of Canon's zooms or shorter focals will do the sensor FULL justice, and you'll be essentially as well off with a 1Ds2 or 5D IMO...
    Jack
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    My top picks: Any white prime (L telephoto), the 135 L, 200 L and 90 TSE. After that, you're going to need Leica or Zeiss glass to eek the best this camera has to offer. After that, the 35L, 50's 45 TSE, 85 and 100 will probably be at least in the very good category. None of Canon's zooms or shorter focals will do the sensor FULL justice, and you'll be essentially as well off with a 1Ds2 or 5D IMO...
    Wait until Husband has perfected the engineering on the G to EOS converter then for wides go with the fabulous Nikon 14-24 2.8 and the 24-70 2.8. Along with the older 70-200 2.8 and a 1.4 teleconverter you have all the kit you need for 98% of your shooting. If you do a lot of macro I would vote for the 200 4.0 (The latest version, not the original!) While the kit seems large the working distance at the 200mm focal length is such that it won't seem a bother.

    Just MHO. YMMV

    Woody

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    workingcamera
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    When one hankers for a workable Nikkor G glass to EOS adaptor its time to buy a Nikon FX D. (rhetorical rant)

    Nikon have done some nice work on their lens range.

    Its almost heresy to say this out loud but I can’t help wondering that Canon have for quite some time been sitting on their laurels neglecting the optical side in their professional offerings.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by workingcamera View Post
    When one hankers for a workable Nikkor G glass to EOS adaptor its time to buy a Nikon FX D. (rhetorical rant)

    Nikon have done some nice work on their lens range.

    Its almost heresy to say this out loud but I can’t help wondering that Canon have for quite some time been sitting on their laurels neglecting the optical side in their professional offerings.
    That is what competition is for.

    Canon has done a decent job on a scant few lenses ... like the new 14mm ... the 16-35/2.8L-II was incremental at best (something is better than nothing), and the 50/1.2 was less than incremental ( tons better than the old 50/1.0 especially in flare suppression, but no Zeiss 50/1.2 that's for sure).

    Hey Canon, wake up !! Take your fast glass like the 24/1.4, 35/1.4 and make it the best in the world ... that'd do it for me since I'm not a fan of slow zooms anyway.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    That has been the issue Marc is there glass and it has been for a long time. I know many people bolt on different lenses of leica , Zeiss , Olympus and others. Hell i started it but we should NOT have to do that to get good results. Now this Nikon zoom folks are buying to bolt on. I am sitting here early Sunday morning to unwrap a 5D. Trust me there is no excitement in opening the box at all. That is bad since we all know how much I like gear.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That has been the issue Marc is there glass and it has been for a long time. I know many people bolt on different lenses of leica , Zeiss , Olympus and others. Hell i started it but we should NOT have to do that to get good results. Now this Nikon zoom folks are buying to bolt on. I am sitting here early Sunday morning to unwrap a 5D. Trust me there is no excitement in opening the box at all. That is bad since we all know how much I like gear.
    I know the feeling. Drop a wad of cash on a camera, and it's like unloading a skid of shingles for a new roof ... when you're done the problem is fixed, but it's still the same roof as before.

    There is a look to Leica images that's difficult to quantify scientifically, but since I'm not a scientist or engineer I don't have to try. I just go with what my eyes tell me. For me, both Canon and Nikon have been good workhorse tools ... but frankly, there's no real joy in the tools themselves ... not as much connection. Even if they fixed the Canon lenses, I doubt I'd connect ... they'd just be a better workhorse.

    If the R10 is any where near what's being predicted, Canon will be history in my gear box, and not one tear of remorse will be shed.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    I think you have hit the nail squarely.....the Canons and Nikons are very good "workhorses" as cameras go. The good thing about them compared to many others is the fact that they are so widespread, and if you need one in a hurry, that is possible. They work most of the time without problems. (Let's set aside some of the newest issues with the Canon 1DMkIII, as that is still a bit of a problem for many.)

    They are not terribly exciting as toys go, but they can do the job that few others can on a very regular basis. The latest D3 looks to finally bring some much needed updating, improvement, capability and maybe excitement to Nikonians, as well as gear flippers. On the Canon side, the 1DsMkIII still looks to be an incredible fairly high resolution do-almost-all-of-it camera. The glass for both lines used to be a strength, but is now more of a compromise. Nikon has updated and released some new and exciting lenses, and Canon has been working on several themselves. That is the good part. The less good part is that so much of the rest of their lines of glass are left wanting, maybe with the exception of the super-telephotos.

    I still have my several 1-series bodies (2x 1DMkII and a 1DsMkII), and use them extensively for my workhorse work. They never fail. They also rarely excite. They are still more capable for the widest range of capture of anything. Not all of that capture is going to be outstanding, such as the ultra-wide end of things, but they get the job done. I just find it very hard to pick any of them up for any pleasure or artistic shooting anymore. The M8 fills that bill. Will an R10 supplant my Canon stuff when it arrives? Probably not, as if and when the Canons break or have problems, I can get them fixed in a few days, or get a loaner very easily, thus allowing work to go on. So far, Leica has shown itself to be terribly underperforming there.

    I am not bashing Leica, but really putting a working perspective on things. The Nikons I shot for 25+ years were workhorses. The Canons I have been shooting the past 5+ years are workhorses. The M8 is a more fragile, finicky machine, but a total pleasure to shoot and allows me the workhorse escape for creativity and such. I really cannot do without it at this point, but I also cannot count on it to deliver most of what I need the workhorses for. Just the nature of my shooting. I would hope for an R10 that could deliver the fun and excitement and image quality or better of the M8, but until it proves itself in the field, it will only be an added camera to the kit, and not the "grab it when you absolutely have to get the shot" camera.

    LJ

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    If the R10 is any where near what's being predicted, Canon will be history in my gear box, and not one tear of remorse will be shed.
    Amen to that! But I want at 2 of those those 24 new lenses to be STELLAR tilt-shift lenses (28 and 90)
    Jack
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    Super Duper
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    I think you have hit the nail squarely.....the Canons and Nikons are very good "workhorses" as cameras go. the nature of my shooting. I would hope for an R10 that could deliver the fun and excitement and image quality or better of the M8, but until it proves itself in the field, it will only be an added camera to the kit, and not the "grab it when you absolutely have to get the shot" camera.

    LJ
    IMO, they need to get to that point in order for the R line to survive long term. While most certainly not for everyone, Leica R was used by more Pro shooters in rugged and hostile conditions than it is now. Leica needs to gain some of that back with a Flagship digital R.

    Some people have shown a desire for a $4,000. to $5,000. R10 ... not me. If so many photographers were willing to shell out $7,000 -$8,000. for a Canon 1Ds, 1DsMKII, and now a 1DsMKIII ... why not a R10 that could stand toe-to-toe with those "workhorses" but kill them on the optical end?

    But, man, you are right, Pros who's reputations are as stake need tools that work, and need stellar service when they don't.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    ...I am not bashing Leica, but really putting a working perspective on things. ...
    LJ
    That's the thing isn't it, a working perspective.

    I used Leica R full time for about 5 years and eventually decidied to dump it for Canon (film, not digital) because of a string of minor things which all added up to a significant issue. Such as difficulty using filters on wide angles, inability to hire gear, manual focus eventually became an issue so going to AF was a bonus (although 99% of my work is done manually anyway), cost of zooms such as the 70-180/2.8, and a few other practical issues.

    Canon and Nikon are 'systems' designed to make the pro's life as easy as possible. Of course image quality is often not as good, but from a working perspective IQ is not the main criteria.

    JJ

  25. #25
    workingcamera
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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    if and when the Canons break or have problems, I can get them fixed in a few days, or get a loaner very easily, thus allowing work to go on. So far, Leica has shown itself to be terribly underperforming there.

    LJ
    So true…its no secret

    Leica AG cannot provide the level of backup service in-the-field shooters require.

    the lean years have taken a toll

    All too often its the dealers (not Leica) who often keep the ball rolling providing loan and rental gear when need.

    Its an area Leica AG need to address

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    Re: Canon 1Ds Mark III and Optics

    I've sold off my Canon gear for a while now and really don't miss it. Once I stopped shooting the long glass, which is where they really excel, it just didn't float my boat any longer. There are times though where I really could use the high ISO performance and fast AF... just not enough to warrant having the gear.

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