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Thread: Canon 7D

  1. #1
    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Canon 7D

    Pretty solid rumors are all aligning on a Canon announcement of the 7D this week...

    - Crop body (1.6x or 1.45x)
    - 18MP
    - Dual Digic IV
    - 8fps
    - new AF system with 19 cross-type sensors
    - new metering system
    - 3" LCD
    - Full HD Video

    This camera will be announced with two new EF-S lenses (15-85, and 15-135) which will utilize the new "hybrid" image stabilization technology that Canon announced about a month ago.

    This might be a nice sports/action camera, if the AF system is responsive.

    Mike
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Not trying to be dense but what market segment is this body aimed at?

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    Re: Canon 7D

    If the specs hold true, then the 7D should be a very good sports/wildlife camera.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Not trying to be dense but what market segment is this body aimed at?
    To me, it seems like Canon uses a one digit name to "enhance" the market position, thereby admitting that the 50D has fallen too far behind the D300 to maintain the double digit names for "premium" cameras. It's a development of what the 50D didn't succeed to be, but should have been. (Nothing wrong with the 50D, but while the D300 changed the game, and still sells at a premium price, the 50D was a rather dull improvement of the 40D, which was a rather dull improvement of the 30D, which... no revolution since the 20D.)

    The 7D looks good to me

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Exactly - the 7D is aimed at the D700. It is also a strong sign of features to come in the 1D Mark IV, although that camera is rumored to have 10fps, DIGIC V, and a whole new 51-point AF system.

    There will also be a 60D at some point, but without all these bells and whistles (single DIGIC processor, 5-6 fps, more simplified AF, etc).
    Mike Hatam
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    Re: Canon 7D

    I just can't imagine it competing with the D700 at a 1.45 or 1.6 crop. With a 7D name it would imply a body style like the 5D which isn't exactly weather sealed which would be important for sports/wildlife. Seems more like D300s competition. Also, with 18mp in a 1.6 crop wouldn't noise start to be a problem? All the rest of the specs seem interesting.

  7. #7
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    7D is aimed at the D300s. They are trying to win on MP. Funny when Canon themselves dropped the resolution on the new G11 and S90. I guess the APS-C division didn't get the memo about high pixel density sucking...

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    Re: Canon 7D

    I waited for Canon's Sept. 1 announcement because I am about to purchase a new body. Spec.'s (although unofficial) look impressive except for the 18 Mega pixel APS-C 1.6/1.45 crop sensor. I had hoped for a full frame to compete with the Sony A850. If it turns out to be FF, I'll probably buy it. If not, I will have to consider switching systems and going with an A850. Maybe Canon will drop the price on the 5d MK II?

    To me, a crop camera has two major drawbacks , the black hole at the wide end and a small/dim viewfinder. A wide end fix calls for an EF-S 10-22 F/3.5-4.5 or equivalent and I really do not want to get into EF-S glass because my eventual goal is FF. The viewfinder issue, for macro and landscape in my case, is helped significantly by live view on a nice LCD. I just don't understand video without an ambidextrous screen. Come to think of it, an ambidextrous screen would be very useful on a still camera. I think the A850 at $2k poses a real problem for Canon; they were always afraid that Sony would get aggressive on price and they would have to try to compete. That has apparently just happened.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Another early review + some video (at 24p):

    http://gizmodo.com/5349829/canon-7d-...video-for-1900

    The addition of 24p (and at this price point ... around $1,700 for the body) is the answer to a lot of indie film-maker's prayers.

  11. #11
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    there are frustrated 5dmk2 owners out there though I personally don't like 24p for the things I shoot. I don't know about 18mp in aps-c - be interesting to see how noise is handled/looks. It does kind of give the D300s a kick in the rear.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Nice camera. If I were a Canon user, I would be all over it...

    Would be a nice camera for my OM lenses... hmmm...

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    Re: Canon 7D

    I think it is a lot more interesting what this model tells us about the Future. It shows us a lot what will come with a 1DsMk4. Like New AF, Video options, leveling, Buttons you can program, and of course resolution. Here I expect the 1DsMk4 to be more towards the 35Mp instead of the full 47. This could leed up to some very nice additional Dynamic Range and high ISO performance. I think it also points into the direction that the 1dMk4 will be FF and no 1.6 crop anymore.


    I think it is quite smart from Canon, testing a new AF system with a lower end model and not pushing everything to the top end, because if it fails there, well we know what happened to the 1DMk3 AF ^^

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    Re: Canon 7D

    This 7d is aimed at the d 300. It will be a nice camera with the 70-200 f4 If you have a 5d mk11 with a 24-105 this will be a very nice 2 camera walk around set up . 24 to 320 with 2 bodies high megapixel count and good low light performance.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Yes that, too but I also think Canon is offering it for people who prefer a cropped sensor for wildlife or sports shooting. I mean there are some benefits. So if Canon goes FF with the 1DMk4 there is another Canon model you could choose from with very high fps.

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Interesting to see Canon doing it's usual thing of putting new features in the low end cameras first.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    Interesting to see Canon doing it's usual thing of putting new features in the low end cameras first.
    It would be interesting to read your definition of "low end".

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post
    Exactly - the 7D is aimed at the D700. It is also a strong sign of features to come in the 1D Mark IV, although that camera is rumored to have 10fps, DIGIC V, and a whole new 51-point AF system.

    There will also be a 60D at some point, but without all these bells and whistles (single DIGIC processor, 5-6 fps, more simplified AF, etc).
    7D is simply an upgrade from 50D, trying to go after 200D/300D

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I think it also points into the direction that the 1dMk4 will be FF and no 1.6 crop anymore.


    I think it is quite smart from Canon, testing a new AF system with a lower end model and not pushing everything to the top end, because if it fails there, well we know what happened to the 1DMk3 AF ^^
    The Canon 1D cameras have always been APS-H sized sensors at 1.3x crop, not 1.6x crop as is found in the APS-C sized sensors of the 10-50D and "Rebel" cameras.

    Aside from the not so great experiment of the new AF in the 1DMkIII when it came out, Canon has usually introduced many of the new controls and changes to cameras below their flagship 1-series bodies before moving them up to that level. So it will be interesting to see if Canon does incorporate a new AF system upwards with any new 1-series body(ies) that may be introduced later. The change in pixel pitch to 4.3u is pretty dramatic also. Still looks to be able to deliver nicely to about ISO 1600 but maybe not so good at ISO 3200 and up due to aggressive NR and increased contrast. If that new pixel size holds up, the 1DsMkIV, if it comes out, could have near 35MP resolution or so. Now that could get interesting.

    LJ

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It would be interesting to read your definition of "low end".
    Anything under the 1D line or any thing that's not a new Leica....

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    Anything under the 1D line or any thing that's not a new Leica....
    Ah... that explains it

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    The Canon 1D cameras have always been APS-H sized sensors at 1.3x crop, not 1.6x crop as is found in the APS-C sized sensors of the 10-50D and "Rebel" cameras.

    Aside from the not so great experiment of the new AF in the 1DMkIII when it came out, Canon has usually introduced many of the new controls and changes to cameras below their flagship 1-series bodies before moving them up to that level. So it will be interesting to see if Canon does incorporate a new AF system upwards with any new 1-series body(ies) that may be introduced later. The change in pixel pitch to 4.3u is pretty dramatic also. Still looks to be able to deliver nicely to about ISO 1600 but maybe not so good at ISO 3200 and up due to aggressive NR and increased contrast. If that new pixel size holds up, the 1DsMkIV, if it comes out, could have near 35MP resolution or so. Now that could get interesting.

    LJ
    If the 7D's new AF system tracks a moving object using the center AF point as well as current 1Dx series cameras then this camera will be a great success with the bird/wildlife and daytime sports photographers. I will be looking to replace my 1d2n for birding which I haven't used much since I got my 1ds3. This will save my 1ds3 from the excessive shutter wear from bird photography and give me the extra 1.6 crop reach which I miss right now.

    The 1D4 will be more for professional sports shooters who need high iso performance for indoor and nightime sporting events. The 1dx has always balanced the need for better high iso performance and thus larger sensor with the need for some crop factor to give sports shooters the extra telephoto focal length reach so they don't have to lug even bigger lenses around. I would think it will stay 1.3 crop unless they feel they are too far behind the high iso performance of the Nikon D3.

    I agree with LJ that this 7D announcement tends to support the rumors of the 1ds4 having 35MP range in the future as it is usually twice the MP of the 1d4 which should be around the same as the 7D. My Leica and Zeiss glass is ready for that 35MP high resolution test hopefully sometime early next year!!! A poor man's S2! Should be interesting to see how close it comes or doesn't.

  23. #23
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    No rumors already on sale from Calumet

    Product Features
    Please Note: The price of $1699.99 is the estimated retail price. If this price changes we will contact you before fullfilling your order.

    The EOS 7D represents a whole new class of camera with a host of brand new features designed to enhance every facet of the photographic process, from still images to video.

    Made to be the tool of choice for serious photographers and semi-professionals, the EOS 7D features an all-new 18.0 Megapixel APS-C size CMOS sensor and Dual DIGIC 4 Image Processors, capturing tremendous images at up to ISO 12800 and speeds of up to 8 fps.

    The Auto Focus of the EOS 7D has a cross-type 19-point AF system with improved AI Servo AF subject tracking and user-selectable AF area selection modes for sharp focus no matter the situation.

    With the Intelligent Viewfinder you'll receive 100% coverage of what you're shooting along with user-selected AF display modes as well as a spot metering circle and on demand grid lines.

    Canon's iFCL metering includes a 63-zone dual-layer metering sensor that reads both illumination and color for consistent results in all lighting conditions, keeping exposure levels stable from shot to shot, even as the light source changes.

    The EOS 7D also captures Full HD video at 30p (29.97 fps), 24p (23.976 fps) and 25p with an array of manual controls, including manual exposure during movie shooting and ISO speed selection.

    Featuring a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles, the 7D is designed to be a "workhorse" for professionals in any photography discipline. Compatible with over 60 EF and EF-S lenses as well as with EOS System accessories, the creative opportunities - not just with stills but also with video - are beyond amazement.

    EOS 7D Features:

    18.0 Megapixel CMOS Sensor and Dual DIGIC 4 Image Processors for high image quality and speed.
    ISO 100-6400 (expandable to 12,800) for shooting from bright to dim light.
    8.0 fps continuous shooting up to 126 Large/JPEGs with UDMA CF card and 15 RAW.
    Advanced movie mode with manual exposure control and selectable frame rates: 1920 x 1080 (Full HD): 30p (29.97) / 24p (23.976) / 25p, 1280 x 720 (HD): 60p (59.94) / 50p, 640 x 480 (SD): 60p (59.94) / 50p.
    Intelligent Viewfinder with 100% field of view, wide viewing angle of 29.4, high magnification of 1.0, intelligent viewfinder with glass pentaprism and an overlaid LCD display in viewfinder supports various shooting styles.
    New 19-point, all cross-type AF system equipped with dual diagonal cross-type sensors in center at f/2.8 and f/5.6 and AF area selection modes to match various shooting situations.
    iFCL Metering with 63 zone dual-layer metering sensor that utilizes AF and color information for optimizing exposure and image quality.
    Magnesium body with shutter durability up to 150,000 cycles and exclusive dust and weather resistance.
    Item Includes:

    EOS 7D Digital SLR Body
    Eyecup Eg (Not Shown)
    Wide Neck Strap EW-EOS7D
    Stereo AV Cable AVC-DC400ST
    USB Interface Cable IFC-200U
    Battery Pack LP-E6
    Battery Charger LC-E6
    EOS Digital Solution Disk
    Software Instruction Manual
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Doing a bit more digging and reading..... The "exclusive dust and weather resistance" mentioned in the above specs is evidently the exact same level that is now on the 5DMkII. They also say: "Featuring a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles, the 7D is designed to be a "workhorse" for professionals in any photography discipline."

    One of the other key items in the press release is "for serious photographers and semi-professionals". So is there PR just trying to capture everybody? A "workhorse" for a professional, especially in sports (outdoor) would probably benefit from a bit more weather sealing than the 5DMkII, ya think? Also, it does have a larger viewfinder than the 40D/50D cameras, and Canon is listing it at "100%".

    Personally, I think this 7D is going to be quite a camera. I would prefer the better weather proofing of the 1-series. The various images posted (Galbraith's forum for one place with some ISO 1600, 3200, 6400 and 12,800 shots, plus comparisons with the 5DMkII at same) are not nearly as bad as one might expect for the tiny pixel size. Still lots of noise, and a bit too much contrast, but that may have been the settings, but otherwise able to get the shots in pretty low light. I would venture to say usable at ISO 1600 and 3200 without a problem; 6400 needs some PP NR to clean it up, and 12,800 is just a bit too ugly for my tastes, but if you need the shot.....

    Not having any real useful experience on the video side (yet), but the 7D seems to offer some very impressive specs and pretty nice looking clips in the reviews. This is going to make the day of a number of folks wanting both all around versatility and good video in something that is pretty affordable. Just my opinions.

    LJ

  25. #25
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    Re: Canon 7D

    18MP and video aside, what exactly is it that the D300 hasn't been?

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by szk71 View Post
    18MP and video aside, what exactly is it that the D300 hasn't been?
    It takes Canon lenses

    Jokes aside, I'm a Nikon user, but I also have a lot of good Zuiko OM lenses that could be used on this camera, so I have studied test shots from several sources thoroughly. What I've found is that:

    It has a lot more resolution than the D300, and more or less the same resolution as the 5DII at low ISO. This sounds obvious, but when it comes to images, only seeing is believing.
    It performs slightly worse than the D300 at high ISO, and a bit more than a stop worse the 5DII.
    It's at least one stop better than the Pentax K7 at high ISO, but doesn't resolve much more at low ISO.

    It's not much smaller than the 5DII, but with the crop factor, and almost as much resolution, smaller telephoto lenses will be sufficient, making the total package smaller as well as lighter.

    My only worry for the OM lenses, is if they are good enough for the pixel density of this camera. From that point of view, a 5DII would probably be better, but for some reason, I like this camera.

    Oh, and the wi-fi grip looks like a very neat piece of equipment.

  27. #27
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    For those who are interested in the movie capabilities of the 7D, there's a rather impressive clip here:

    http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eosd/eosmovie/index.html

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Still think I'd take a D300S, same viewfinder, pro AF and dual card capability. I'm extremely wary of that 18 megapixel chip in the 7D. The 5D mkII has already shown that there is no free lunch in chip design with the shadow pattern noise at low iso's.

    I'm sticking with my 5D mkI's for the forseeable future. Everything tells me that the correct upgrade would be the D700 not a canon if it wasn't for the lenses. If I wasn't in love with cheap, fast focusing and utterly spectacular primes I'd already be there.
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    Re: Canon 7D

    hmmm, as a sports shooter, the mk3 won't focus, the 7D is only 8 fps and cropped. so i vote 5d mkII and shoot golf...but only when the sun is shinning.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    For those who are interested in the movie capabilities of the 7D, there's a rather impressive clip here:

    http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eosd/eosmovie/index.html
    Thanks so much Jorgen. I really enjoyed them--very well done and great capabilities it appears for video in the right hands. I actually watched all of them.

    Diane

  31. #31
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    Re: Canon 7D

    The more results I see from this camera, the more impressed I get. Canon have done a lot of things right here.

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    Re: Canon 7D

    DITTO HERE, don't make up your mind until you see prints from this camera. Downloaded a couple available online and did just that, very impressive. It didn't sound like a good thing to me either when I first heard the specs, but if the final firmware is as good as the previews available, it will make a nice stable mate for my 5D2. JMHO, ymmv.....

    Btw, I had a D700 and fwiw, noise maybe very low, but rez just wasn't enough for me, this looks like the best of both worlds for me, again YMMV

    I will wait for 4-6 mos until the "bugs" are worked out....not that there are any for sure...every time I was an early adopter, I got burned, so NOW I wait...

  33. #33
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    I for one am excited w/ the new prospects. Canon has really only had 2 AF's. PRO in 1D Series. CRAP in everything else. If this is a 3rd option between the 2, then sign me up!

    I figure the 7D will replace my 40D (which will go up on the block in a couple of weeks). I must be the target market because it's exactly what I"m looking for. A bit more MP (than 10/12). Faster FPS. Better AF. All while retaining the APS-C sensor.

    5D2 + 24-70/2.8
    7D + 70-200/4 IS

    Done.

  34. #34
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Ummm... is it possible to have Canon custom make a black 70+200 f/4, or do I have to paint it myself???

    Oh, and btw., is that lens still sharp with an 1.4x TC?

  35. #35
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Ummm... is it possible to have Canon custom make a black 70+200 f/4, or do I have to paint it myself???
    Oh, and btw., is that lens still sharp with an 1.4x TC?
    I really don't know. You tell me:



    Make: Canon Model: Canon EOS 40D
    DateTime: 2008:04:01 20:49:01 ExposureTime: 1/500
    ISOSpeedRatings: 3200 FocalLength: 280/1 (70-200/4 @200 w/ 1.4x)


    Ps. Yes, you'll have to paint it black (or get a lens cover)

  36. #36
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Thanks, Chris.

    Think, think, think....

  37. #37
    Subscriber Member Corlan F.'s Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Any links to the nice sample shots of the 7D?


    P.S. not asking for myself

  38. #38
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Corlan,
    The easiest way is to look at the samples at Imaging Resource and dpReview. There's a jpeg converted from a RAW at IR that is very impressive. The 7D thread on FM has a lot of links as well. One important link is this:

    http://www.bobatkins.com/photography..._review_4.html

    It compares resolution between the 40D and the 50D, also at small apertures. The reason for its importance is that some claim that diffraction will kill resolution for 7D at any apertures smaller than f/5.6. Bob Atkins tests show clearly that this is not the case. Although the test is done with a 50D, it's close enough in resolution (15 vs 18MP) to be relevant.

    The 7D seems to have ended up in a strange position: it's criticized by many Canon users for not being full frame and by Nikon users for being a Canon (and for having too many megapixels on a small sensor, which is of course completely useless, at least until Nikon launches one with 19MP on the same sensor size )

    The way I see it is that:

    - Canon has managed to cram more megapixels into the sensor without worsening the level of noise at high ISO, and the banding seems to be gone.
    - It has most of the functionality that the D300s has
    - The video implementation is completely beyond the competition, and some of the online samples are extremely impressive.
    - It will mount all of my Zuiko OM and my Nikkor lenses.
    - The 70-200mm f/4.0. Unfortunately, it's white, but that's better than the non-existing Nikkor

    To me, this is maybe the most impressive video, since it's very close to what I would like to do:

    http://www.vimeo.com/6487566

    The guy who made it is obviously extremely skilled, but I do see a potential here. "Street video"? Here's a link to a viewfinder attachment to the back LCD. Very useful for video. They make lots of other useful stuff also btw.:

    http://store.zacuto.com/Z-Finder.html

    Disclaimer:
    Obviously, I've only checked out these things for a friend who is unfortunate enough to be a Canon user
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 14th September 2009 at 22:53.

  39. #39
    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    To me, this is maybe the most impressive video, since it's very close to what I would like to do:

    http://www.vimeo.com/6487566

    The guy who made it is obviously extremely skilled, but I do see a potential here. "Street video"? Here's a link to a viewfinder attachment to the back LCD. Very useful for video. They make lots of other useful stuff also btw.:

    http://store.zacuto.com/Z-Finder.html
    Jorgen, thanks for these two links. The video is impressive indeed (and here was I thinking I wasn't the slightest bit interested in video).

  40. #40
    Subscriber Member Corlan F.'s Avatar
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    Re: Canon 7D

    Thanks Jorgen -i was expectig an answer from some reddish fellow seizing any opportunity to snatch a body from the -sunny- yellow world...

    edit: the video is indeed impressive, and more especially in the described loan conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Disclaimer:
    Obviously, I've only checked out these things for a friend who is unfortunate enough to be a Canon user
    As a matter of fact i do.
    Last edited by Corlan F.; 15th September 2009 at 03:40.

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