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Thread: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

  1. #201
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    iPhone is worse than me at spelling . That's bad
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cs750 View Post
    Gareth, my best response is that I do not for a second reqret the upgrade; there is an indescribeable beauty of the images which I rarely was able to get with the P65+...
    Jack, I am a bit surprised by this comment on the image quality of the IQ180. I had the impression from your earlier commentary that any image quality improvements that you saw in the IQ180 files compared to the P65 were quite subtle and incremental.
    I do hope you are right, though!
    Howard,

    Please note you quoted cs750's comment on image quality differences and NOT mine! I stand by my earlier comments -- the P65+ delivers outstanding image quality. The IQ180 does improve that a notch, a subtle, yet definitely visible and tangible notch. As I said earlier, the best way I can describe it is it's about the same incremental level of increase we got moving from the P45+ to the P65+.

    Hope that clarifies!
    Jack
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Howard,

    Please note you quoted cs750's comment on image quality differences and NOT mine! I stand by my earlier comments -- the P65+ delivers outstanding image quality. The IQ180 does improve that a notch, a subtle, yet definitely visible and tangible notch. As I said earlier, the best way I can describe it is it's about the same incremental level of increase we got moving from the P45+ to the P65+.

    Hope that clarifies!
    Thanks, Jack. My mistake. I was hoping your images from your Yosemite trip had blown you away and prompted you to reset the bar... [G]

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Thanks, Jack. My mistake. I was hoping your images from your Yosemite trip had blown you away and prompted you to reset the bar... [G]
    While Jacks shot is totally amazing I think a good eye and mother nature has a lot more to do with it than the IQ180.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    While Jacks shot is totally amazing I think a good eye and mother nature has a lot more to do with it than the IQ180.
    All I can say is even in this small jpeg the detail is incredible

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quality Issues: P65+ vs. IQ180 Please don't use anything I said to undermine the quality of P65 images. I agree with Jack's statement that the P65+ delivers outstanding quality images, and the IQ180 steps that up a notch. I have no doubt the more experienced and capable the user...the more quality images the user can obtain with either. Charles

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    I know it is tempting to judge picture detail from web versions, so here is a small section of Jack's Yosemite picture rescaled back to 80mp. I hope this gives an idea about how much detail is lost downscaling for the web!


    Jack, I hope it's OK to do this to your beautiful picture. If not, let me know and I'll destroy all copies.

    Best,

    Matt

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    No, it's fine -- but just let's make sure everybody knows that up-rezzing that much does NOT work the same way downrezzing does -- fact of physics. Anyway, here is an actual crop from the image, this is the tip of first sister just above and left of Bridal Veil Falls:




    Note in the downsized web version, you can still tell there are trees in that spot:



    What you can see in the crop that you cannot see in the web version is the incredible tonal separation in the fogged trees on the ridge behind the sister, and that tonality does show up in even a small 8x10 print.
    Jack
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Amazing details. I cant wait for mine soon

    Speaking of landscape, which lens is in must have list? I have 28mm, 80 LS, 110LS, and 150 so far. I was thinking to get the 300mm but it is 1.4KG ouch.

    I am a small guy I cant carry too much stuff

    Thanks

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Santoso View Post
    Amazing details. I cant wait for mine soon

    Speaking of landscape, which lens is in must have list? I have 28mm, 80 LS, 110LS, and 150 so far. I was thinking to get the 300mm but it is 1.4KG ouch.

    I am a small guy I cant carry too much stuff

    Thanks
    If I could only carry one lens for landscape, it would be the 55LS. Second one would be the 110LS.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    No, it's fine -- but just let's make sure everybody knows that up-rezzing that much does NOT work the same way downrezzing does -- fact of physics.
    Yep, not having the original to compare with, I had no choice. The point was to show how much detail is lost in downrezzing without screaming "web images are useless"

    Matt

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    why is that? what are you reason? no 28mm?

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    So is that mean only IQ180 can give you the best details out of all other digital backs in the world and can't be matched?
    Tareq

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    So is that mean only IQ180 can give you the best details out of all other digital backs in the world and can't be matched?
    I think an IQ-180 vs Aptus II 12 face off is needed to answer that one. IQ certainly has the latest technology for the user interface at least but I haven't seen any actual image comparisons between the two backs. I'm sure that each has it's own special image/look sauce.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    I'm pretty sure there won't be a difference. Perhaps in DR and color, but not in Res. I really like what I have in the IQ180, but honestly I don't see much difference when it comes to resolution between the 80 and 60Mp, for me the step from the P45 to the P65 was a lot more. Or to say it better more visible when it comes to resolution

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Santoso View Post
    Amazing details. I cant wait for mine soon

    Speaking of landscape, which lens is in must have list? I have 28mm, 80 LS, 110LS, and 150 so far. I was thinking to get the 300mm but it is 1.4KG ouch.

    I am a small guy I cant carry too much stuff

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    If I could only carry one lens for landscape, it would be the 55LS. Second one would be the 110LS.
    Indeed. I couldn't agree more! I don't see nearly enough talks about the 55 LS, but it's an amazing lens and a very useful focal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Santoso View Post
    why is that? what are you reason? no 28mm?
    ...28 is great in confined spaces, but not necessarily very useful for landscapes, especially if you are at some distance; I am not saying you'll not use it nor need it, you will indeed at times, but my one lens kit would be 55 LS or 80 LS, two lens 55 - 110 or 150, three lens 55 - 80 - 150, four lens 28 - 55 - 80 - 150, 5 lens 28, 55, 80, 110, 150 (which is the easiest kit to figure: just bring'em all! )
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    I'm down to 35d new, 55ls, 80 LS, 110ls, 300 and may have just added 210. Landscape I use 110 more than the rest followed closely by the 55. But end of day I use every lens in my bag. Things may change slightly in use with FF now
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    For landscape there are only two lenses for me. 40 and 90

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Santoso View Post
    why is that? what are you reason? no 28mm?
    Your original question was "Which lens is a must have on my list" and your list did not include a 55, so that's the question I answered --- if you don't like the answer, I'm sorry. Fact is, I use my 55, 110 and 80 in that order most of the time for landscapes. I regularly a 35 and 105-210 to cover the other ends. I keep the 300 in the car mostly. I do not shoot ultra wide very often, so sold my 28 when I got a very good copy of the 35. Also, for the few times I may want really wide, I can stitch two or more 55 or even 80 frames and get the effect of the 28 or even wider.

    Hope that helps,
    Jack
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    So is that mean only IQ180 can give you the best details out of all other digital backs in the world and can't be matched?
    Who said that? What I said is that the IQ180 is at a new level for performance on both resolution and DR compared to my previous cameras. I have not been offered one to test, but I suspect the 80MP Aptus 12 is very near the same -- it could even be better on one or the other or both...
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    For landscape there are only two lenses for me. 40 and 90
    When I get my tech camera, my three lenses will be the 43, 72 and 120 Schneiders. If I went with Rodies, it would be 40, 70 and 120. If I could only get two, it would probably be a 43 and 90 or 100.
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    It depends on the landscapes you shoot, i am a landscape photographer but unfortunately i don't live in a landscape country or region, so i have to travel for that, and if i can make an equivalent of MF to 35mm then my most landscapes shots were between 16mm and 30mm, so i think that means i need something wider than 55mm, i can say that 35-40 will be adequate, but i used 28mm more these days and i really love it even with distortion, i just something a bit longer than 28 and wider than 55 and i am set.
    I used 120 macro on desert and i found out it does a great job except i need to focus manually, and my 80mm is my most used lens on my H body, so i can't finalize that what is fine with me should be too for you, i really don't know what is that 55mm on MFD equivalent to 35mm format.
    Tareq

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    , i really don't know what is that 55mm on MFD equivalent to 35mm format.
    On full-frame MF, a 55 lens is about equivalent to a 32 in 35mm terms; a 28 is about a 19; a 35 is about a 23; an 80 is about a 53, and a 110 is about a 65; and a 150 is about a 100; and a 210 is about a 140... However, if you correct distortions, you "loose" about 10% of the net focal, so they get effectively longer by about 10%...
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    On full-frame MF, a 55 lens is about equivalent to a 32 in 35mm terms; a 28 is about a 19; a 35 is about a 23; an 80 is about a 53, and a 110 is about a 65; and a 150 is about a 100; and a 210 is about a 140... However, if you correct distortions, you "loose" about 10% of the net focal, so they get effectively longer by about 10%...
    So that i said i do something between 16mm up to 30mm, but my most most focal length i use almost like 80% is 24mm, what is that equivalent to MF[FF or crop]??? 35mm i think???
    Tareq

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Correct the 35 is about a 22/23 lens in 35. Nice focal length
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Correct the 35 is about a 22/23 lens in 35. Nice focal length
    Well, just to clarify, it is if you are shooting a full frame MFDB like an IQ160/180, Aptus II 10/12 or similar. With a typical crop sensor such as a P40+ you would use a 28mm for the same FoV.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Thanks guys u r not making it easier haha.

    might have to get the 55LS now or the 300mm.

    with 55LS focal length I can crop from my 28mm lens

    but i dont have anything longer than 150mm now

    think think think

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    The 300 is a nice lens but I will replace it with the new 240ls when it comes out. But I have been very successful with the 300 even wide open or 5.6 doing stage work. Focuses very fast and has nice contrast and look. They are not really that expensive either around 1800. But the 55 is like a must have no matter what you shoot. My goal is all the Schneider glass I can get. Like the look of them. I'm after look more than anything.
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Well, just to clarify, it is if you are shooting a full frame MFDB like an IQ160/180, Aptus II 10/12 or similar. With a typical crop sensor such as a P40+ you would use a 28mm for the same FoV.
    I was using 28mm on H3D 39, it was nice wide, but now on H4D-60, it is crazy damn wide, so if i don't like it i better go with 35mm, not sure if that 50mm will suit better, but i am that guy who go to wider side more than longer for outdoors/landscapes.
    Tareq

  30. #230
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post


    Hey Jack... are those hot-pixels or sharpening artifacts or jpeg artifacts throughout the pic (or what?)?

    When present, I'd expect to see hot-pixels in all the shadow areas, and I don't always, so I'm a bit perplexed. I guess they could actually be small areas of snow, but they look like they are quite a bit brighter than the snow surrounding them. Jpeg junk? Is this sharpened for print (ie, too much for screen).

    As impressive as it is, this 100% crop looks very "digital" to me...

    No negativity here, just a bit of confusion. Care to clarify? Thanks!

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Shelby, that is snow on the upward exposed edges of the jagged rock -- it was snowing while I captured this shot. There is no single pixel noise and moreover, there is no pixel in this image at over a 98L value, or about 250 in 8-bit pixel parlance.
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Shelby, that is snow on the upward exposed edges of the jagged rock -- it was snowing while I captured this shot. There is no single pixel noise and moreover, there is no pixel in this image at over a 98L value, or about 250 in 8-bit pixel parlance.
    Well... I trust you Jack, so there it is.

    Thanks. It's scary, then, just how much detail this thing is capturing. Really scary.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Yes, it is scary and that is the point --- if you look at a map of the valley, that particular spire behind Bridalveil falls is about 2 *MILES* as the crow flies away from the tunnel view overlook, and this frame was taken with a moderate wideangle 55mm lens...
    Jack
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Thanks Guy.

    Forgot bout the 240LS 55LS path then for me

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Btw the 300 is somewhat big so keep that in mind
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    And the 240LS is not likely to be small
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    No, it's fine -- but just let's make sure everybody knows that up-rezzing that much does NOT work the same way downrezzing does -- fact of physics. Anyway, here is an actual crop from the image, this is the tip of first sister just above and left of Bridal Veil Falls:

    What you can see in the crop that you cannot see in the web version is the incredible tonal separation in the fogged trees on the ridge behind the sister, and that tonality does show up in even a small 8x10 print.
    Sweet! My IQ180 arrives on Monday and it is a good thing, all this gloating is driving me nuts.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    When I get my tech camera, my three lenses will be the 43, 72 and 120 Schneiders. If I went with Rodies, it would be 40, 70 and 120. If I could only get two, it would probably be a 43 and 90 or 100.
    My tech camera lenses are 28 (Rode), 47, 90 & 180 (all Schneider). Mostly the 28 is for interior though, while I sometimes bring it along too I found that I use it very very sparsely on landscape - 47 is wide enough in 98% of the cases. Plus the 28 is quite large & heavy, tough to filter, and with a sliding adapter the 47 covers almost the same area of the 28 (add a little camera rotation and you are easily there).
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    What is the current IQ180 firmware number ?

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    I just got my Iq180, nice Screen

    I played around for 4 mins and I cant find the IIQ S setting ( no option for it)

    Does anyone else experience this?

    Thanks

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    my firmware 1.02.0

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    What you can see in the crop that you cannot see in the web version is the incredible tonal separation in the fogged trees on the ridge behind the sister, and that tonality does show up in even a small 8x10 print.
    Incredible detail and tonality indeed! As possibly the last P45+ user around, what am I to do now?

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by nightfire View Post
    Incredible detail and tonality indeed! As possibly the last P45+ user around, what am I to do now?
    Take 20 minute exposures, post them, and poo poo all the poor non 45+ users that can't match it! :-)

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by nightfire View Post
    Incredible detail and tonality indeed! As possibly the last P45+ user around, what am I to do now?
    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Take 20 minute exposures, post them, and poo poo all the poor non 45+ users that can't match it! :-)
    Or you could just buy the IQ180 and keep the P45+, thus having the ultimates in all worlds and making me insanely jealous!

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    I need to come back and elaborate one more point that while insignificant for many may be important to a few: monochrome conversions.

    Typically with digital, a monochrome conversion is somewhat lacking when compared to a traditional wet, large negative B&W. That has improved steadily, especially as resolutions have gone up in MF backs -- and got to a very acceptable level for myself and many other traditionalists with the P65+. However if you are a B&W shooter, I think I am safe saying the IQ180 takes monochrome print output to a new, higher level. While still not equivalent to a perfectly implemented 4x5 or 5x7 B&W, it is pushing in pretty close. Accutance is easily there in print and IMHO even better now; and a very similar "depth and roundness" is now present too. The traditional highlight "glow" while somewhat more perceptible as well, is probably the one factor not yet in the same league as wet, LF silver. All in all, I am impressed with how well the IQ180 mono conversions print off my Epson 7900 printer and coated art papers. Offered FWIW...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The traditional highlight "glow" while somewhat more perceptible as well, is probably the one factor not yet in the same league as wet, LF silver. Offered FWIW...
    Spot on Jack, I have been trying several techniques to imitate that glow and felt like the P65+ was almost getting it. Even to the point of printing silver halide lightjet prints and different lighting approaches. The look I am getting is a "missed it by that much" frustration - almost but not quite the magic.

    I won't have time to really work the IQ180 for a few weeks but your comments have me itching to get some quality shooting time in.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Well, looks like the P1/M mount backs are shipping. Anybody get a back yet that was NOT for a Phase camera?
    I missed it for the Italy trip...I hope it makes it for my France trip....in september!

    Victor

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    No, it's fine -- but just let's make sure everybody knows that up-rezzing that much does NOT work the same way downrezzing does -- fact of physics. Anyway, here is an actual crop from the image, this is the tip of first sister just above and left of Bridal Veil Falls:




    Note in the downsized web version, you can still tell there are trees in that spot:



    What you can see in the crop that you cannot see in the web version is the incredible tonal separation in the fogged trees on the ridge behind the sister, and that tonality does show up in even a small 8x10 print.
    Hi Jack

    The print you made for me of this image just arrived. All I can say is WOW!

    Tonality is just fabulous......DR is very special.....Composition spot on.

    This one is going to become a classic. You heard it here first

    Best

    Woody

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Shelby, that is snow on the upward exposed edges of the jagged rock -- it was snowing while I captured this shot. There is no single pixel noise and moreover, there is no pixel in this image at over a 98L value, or about 250 in 8-bit pixel parlance.
    Dear Jack

    Sorry to hark back to your original images (we've been abroad for a few weeks) but I have a question on the 100% crops. In the crown moulding (blue) and in the brass of the clock there seems to be b lotchiness. I assume this is jpg artifacts due to the colors being close and thus creating a KIND of noise? It could also be due to the pulling at 35 ISO, but just wondered what the processed tiffs showed.

    What's incredible is the DR of the sign in the cab of the middle picture. This is clearly an improvement over the P+ backs.

    Anyway nice review...just the thing to make me ask WHERE"S MY IQ180 ("C" mount

    Victor

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 Initial Review and Impressions (With pics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Hi Jack

    The print you made for me of this image just arrived. All I can say is WOW!

    Tonality is just fabulous......DR is very special.....Composition spot on.

    This one is going to become a classic. You heard it here first

    Best

    Woody
    Woody,

    Thank you very much -- and really happy you enjoy the print!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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