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Thread: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

  1. #101
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Victor also I have not corrected anything for 200 here as well. Certainly that can be done in your processing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  2. #102
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Lets see here on DR

    ISO 50 Full



    ISO 100

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  3. #103
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    I think 50 wins. But its pretty close. I think you would see more in fat light compared to this.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  4. #104
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Guy, thanks so much for all this info and testing. Very useful..

    Now if only my own IQ would turn up.....

    Bill

  5. #105
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    I need to go cleanup. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #106
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Guy, thanks so much for all this info and testing. Very useful..

    Now if only my own IQ would turn up.....

    Bill
    Thanks Bill. Fingers crossed its real soon for you.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Guy do you use all those spray for your hair?

    Shots looking good tough so.

    BlasR

  8. #108
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Lol my daughter is a hair stylist. Have more product around here than I can count. Afraid to light a match. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  9. #109
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Lets go Sensor Plus same subject and these are 15mpx shots with Sensor Plus.
    Again these are at default for noise for 200 and 400 than i did 800,1600,320 both at default and corrected for noise. These are again 100 percent crops

    here we go

    ISO 200 crop default



    ISO 400 crop default




    ISO 800 default noise followed by corrected noise



    ISO 800 corrected for noise




    ISO 1600 default than followed with correction



    ISO 1600 corrected for noise. Killer good here folks




    ISO 3200 default than corrected



    ISO 3200 correct for noise

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  10. #110
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Great I blew up the server
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #111
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Victor also I have not corrected anything for 200 here as well. Certainly that can be done in your processing
    yup
    processed files do seem to clean up, without much loss of detail

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Guy, how long does it take to fire up the camera and back before taking a shot?

  13. #113
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    About three/ four seconds. Needs to read your card so size may matter. I use 16gb Sandisk extreme pros
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  14. #114
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Have to say the high ISO 1600 is killer good and maybe better than what I have seen out of the P65+. If anything like normal Phase does improve this stuff in C1 without our knowledge sometimes, which is a good thing. I'm thrilled and can't wait to shoot in NY about 5K images with it on Sensor Plus. I will post those images
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  15. #115
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    here is a full ISO 1600 sensor plus shot with my corrections . Now lets compare it to ISO 50 full res.


    ISO 1600 corrected



    ISO 50 Full resolution image

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  16. #116
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Pretty dang good folks. Obviously the 1600 will be noisier and some loss of detail but at these sizes pretty hard to tell. I have to give Phase credit here on Sensor Plus. They got this nailed
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  17. #117
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    I think I am done testing the IQ 160 now. Need to get to work today. LOL

    I hope this helps as it helps me understand what I have in my hands so i know what to expect and learn the workarounds to get the best results. Also helps me teach this on workshops.

    Hate to say it but this also proves as I learned a long time ago with sensor plus it really can help eliminate the need for a DSLR in a lot of cases.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  18. #118
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    Guy, how long does it take to fire up the camera and back before taking a shot?
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    About three/ four seconds. Needs to read your card so size may matter. I use 16gb Sandisk extreme pros
    Note that you can turn card checking OFF in the back and then initial start up is much faster.
    Jack
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  19. #119
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Great point Jack that would speed things up for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  20. #120
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Dear Guy

    really nice rundown on the noise issue with the IQ160. Seems like, even with the same sensor as the P65+ Phase has lowered the noise, or upped the processing. Overall, real encouraging.

    NOWW, Jack, and chance you and Guy can get together to see what the 160 vs 180 looks like? Phase implies the noise isn't any different, maybe better even with the smaller photosite size. Would really help to see the difference. (not that I would switch from the 180; looks like a really nice back to use for YEARS to come....
    if it ever comes
    Victor

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Victor,

    I can't comment on the 160 but I have the 180 and from the looks of what I've seen from Guy the backs seem to be VERY similar. I would think that noise wise they are identical. I approach noise a little differently than Guy as I prefer to use other noise correction software instead of P1..... I have found iso 200 to be very usable for landscape with any noise corrected with Noise Ninja. Iso 400 is still very usable but, for me, that is the limit. This is much better than the P45 world I came from but nowhere near the world of a 5DII. Regardless the files from my 180 are remarkably smooth with lots of fine detail. The LCD is a dream for focus checking (I use a MF Loupe). I find the LS lenses a MUST as reliance on the Focal Plane shutter causes smearing at lower shutter speeds. You will be very happy with your 180. Well worth the wait!

    Victor

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    I was shooting a childrens dance performance a few weeks back, no flash allowed and ended up at ISO 3200 plus taking lots of rapid fire shots, leaning heavily on Nikons AF. I think I have maybe 3-4 events per year which nessecitate a DSLR but that's about it, these backs could handle everything else. (work with me here, I'm trying hard to justify buying one, please send me the support number for lost souls, mobiles do work in the inferno right?)

  23. #123
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Victor,
    I find the LS lenses a MUST as reliance on the Focal Plane shutter causes smearing at lower shutter speeds. You will be very happy with your 180. Well worth the wait!

    Victor
    Could you expand on that Victor? Do you mean that this is the case even with a tripod? My glass is mostly not LS... so I am curious to know the situation...

    Best
    Tim

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Tim,

    The smearing I mentioned is really shutter slap and I'm surprised that it isn't discussed more often. I switched from an H2 to the DF body and wondered, to myself, if the focal plane shutter in the DF caused camera shake. On the two brand new bodies I had it did! It will manifest itself more on the longer lenses but it made my 150mm totally unusable under 1/200th. That made the lens unusable to me and it went back to my dealer. My two LS lenses (80mm, 110mm) are tack sharp at any speed. I tested the shutter slap further by using the 110 with only the focal plane shutter and got the same results as the 150mm - unusable under 1/200th because of shake. This is on a GT3541 with only the upper two legs extended using an Arca Swiss plate on a Z1 Ball Head - mirror up and 10 second delay. I won't shoot anything except LS lenses or a tech camera.

    Victor

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    I tested this awhile back with a 300mm 1/30 and 1/40 are shutter speeds to avoid as I did get vibrations. The rest seemed okay though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  26. #126
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    I can do that test again if someone really wants me too. Have 300 here

    BTW I'm done and satisfied with tests I have done so far but will run something specific if I see a need.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Unfortunately, with the DF body you still get shutter slap with the LS lenses at 1/20th to 1/40th. The sequence with mirror up and self-timer is, 1) press shutter; 2) Mirror goes up, LS shutter closes, and self-timer countdown starts; 3) at exposure, FP curtain opens, LS fires, FP curtain closes, LS opens for viewing.

    It is my gut, though I've seen no spec, that the FP shutter operates at about 1/30th when the LS shutter is enabled -- the LS shutter of course firing completely while the FP shutter is open. Would have been awesome if they could have gotten the FP shutter to open with mirror up too -- would have solved the DF's "motion" issue in the 1/20th to 1/40th range...
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    We did indeed discuss this here when the LS lenses first appeared and what Jack says is correct - the darn FP shutter still fires and messes things up, even with mirror up. I'm hoping they will fix this when the new Phase body appears - that would sell a lot of Schneider glass for them. I did see written somewhere about using the LS lenses in "LS - only" mode - was I just dreaming, or exactly what does that mean? Seems like it was part of Phase's literature somewhere.

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    [QUOTE=Jack Flesher;329603]Unfortunately, with the DF body you still get shutter slap with the LS lenses at 1/20th to 1/40th. The sequence with mirror up and self-timer is, 1) press shutter; 2) Mirror goes up, LS shutter closes, and self-timer countdown starts; 3) at exposure, FP curtain opens, LS fires, FP curtain closes, LS opens for viewing.

    Yes Jack, you are correct in the sequence but I have not noticed any camera movement at those shutter speeds on the 110 so I'm a happy camper at that focal length. But, the 150mm smeared even at 1/160th making it unusable. Hopefully the new body will eliminate this - if it even has a focal plane shutter!

    Victor

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    gotta love that little shutter "snick" of the compurs

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    gotta love that little shutter "snick" of the compurs
    Absolutely! However, no 'tweener speeds
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    BTW I did get a Cambo/Mamiya plate from CI to use so i can test the 28mm schneider on the 160. It will be done early next week.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Victor - I'm wondering why the 110 LS seems to lack the shutter slap smearing if the FP shutter still slaps when the exposure is made?

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Just a small update I have been shooting sensor plus all week about 3k in images so far and everything is just about instant, focus mask, highlight and preview itself. I can get off about 5 frames if i really wanted too with a model walking down a runway. Comfortable 3 and it is working very fast. I really have less and less need for a 35mm but still have one as backup and for some PR stuff. Shooting mostly ISO 1600 and 800 on tungsten and noise looks very good. This thing is rocking my world and not sure what others think but AF works a charm on continuous focus. With a 300mm no less
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    OMG now I will be hated by the IQ 180 folks and YES folks I GUESSED correctly. Shot to preview INSTANT. To Focus mask less than 3 seconds the 180 is a good 5 seconds. Zoom to 100 percent full render 2 to 3 seconds. Shooting speed full res. as fast as continuous will go. Obviously if you shoot 10 frames it will keep up with the shooting but the buffer will take a bit to clear to write everything.

    Looks like I have 1.19 firmware dated May 26th. So right now I will assume my Extreme Pro cards are not supported which for both 180 and 160 could speed things up more
    I am one of those 'IQ18 folks' you mention and no, I don't hate you. On the contrary, I'm writing to say I think your reasoning is very sound. You are running a photography business and ROI is a VERY important consideration as is the suitability of the gear you choose. If you buy the fanciest toys without adequately weighting ROI and performance in your decision making process, you probably won't remain in business for long.
    Grahams remarks earlier are spot-on. {BTW, he's an expectant father today too - I hear speak of his new Aptus 12 being in Dubai customs as I write this}
    Enjoy, Guy. You made a wise decision.
    Cheers,
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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ernst View Post
    Victor - I'm wondering why the 110 LS seems to lack the shutter slap smearing if the FP shutter still slaps when the exposure is made?
    The sequence is timed differently. The curtain opens and then the leaf shutter opens and closes and finally the curtain closes. So there is only the chance of vibration on the opening of the curtain which for me, so far, has been non existent.

    Victor

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    Re: IQ 160 Impending Arrival

    Thanks Victor. I was thinking about that conversation just last night The FC curtain opening certainly does cause a vibration, but it looks like that vibration has died down by the time the LS opens and the picture is taken. The only real issue I see now is that this extra opening of the FC curtain causes a delay in the photo being taken - not much of an issue for me but shutter lag is one thing we've all been trying to make shorter ever since digital was born. It would just be so much easier if the FC curtain opened when the mirror was locked up manually, then no vibrations at all and nearly instant picture with no lag - seems so simple!

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