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Thread: Fun with the Fuji X10

  1. #51
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Not too sure where to post this, but I've got mine. I managed to squeeze some tests out before I had to charge the battery.
    Initial thoughts, very positive. I had the Canon G9 and G10 and the X10 is a different league
    The viewfinder is big and bright and reminds you of some of the best film cameras of the past. Its easy to focus using the center of the finder, half press the button and recompose. In fact, that is what you do with a rangefinder camera, but here you don't worry about aligning the patches - much faster than my Epson RD-1. You can easily see the focus confirmation button when you look through the finder.
    EXR is only available in jpeg as far as I can see. My test images look good, but I haven't done any raw yet. Build and finish are top notch, about the same as my GXR.

    Keith
    Hi Keith
    congratulations! The optical viewfinder is a real lure . . and after my rather grumpy response to Ricardo I feel it's only right to make a positive response to a new acquisition!

    I'll be fascinated to see how you get on with the RAW files.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Jono - the viewfinder really is a refreshing change.

    For my "urban landscape" stuff I use my GXR and usually one of the Ricoh small zooms. The Ricoh EVF is ok but not an "immediate" experience like the Fuji (I hope to try the Sony Nex EVF when I replace my 3C with a 5N) I think the X10 will be great for what I need after a bit of practice as it really is a new kind of camera in this class.
    I shoot usually 4:3 or 1:1 and the X10 has this capability. But you have to be careful as the viewfinder always shows the same frame aspect ratio - best then to switch to the LCD if you need square.
    The zoom linkage to the viewfinder is really good - no lag and it feels nicely mechanical.
    Haven't had much of a chance to test the IQ yet, the weather is not cooperating.

    Here is a pic of my two Fuji "rangefinder" cameras. The film camera still gets lots of use

    Keith

    Last edited by woodmancy; 3rd November 2011 at 18:07.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Hmmm . . . . . I'm not too familiar with Silkypix, but it doesn't seem to want to recognize the X10 raw files. Has anyone else tried it?

    Keith
    Whoops . . . . I loaded an old version of Silkypix

    Keith

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Here is part of an unprocessed raw image exported as a tiff from Silkypix (about 25% of the actual image)

    ISO 640, 1/400s, f5.6

    Keith


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    Re: Fuji X10

    Battery is charging after I played for a little bit. Impressed with the build quality. Basic operation seems very straight forward. All the extra stuff will take some time in reading the manual and asking questions here.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    My cameras always seem to come while I'm at work and my first shots are always in the dark.

    Self Portrait:
    ISO 1000 jpeg. No processing.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Just had a chance to play with the X10 so here are a few thoughts on my impressions:

    Good:

    - High ISO performance of this camera is best in class. I would say it's probably about a stop and a half over an LX5 as the ISO goes up
    - The fact the camera could take an ISO 12800 shot and still keep overall tone and color is just phenomenal. It's not perfect but it works for many situations like web, etc.
    - The two dials are stiff and click, good feel
    - Camera is pretty solid
    - The lens seems to me phenomenal. Again, best in class. It seems to have this "micro contrast" thing going on that captures tones well and on mildly resized shots that are even higher ISO, the shots have this DSLR aspect to them.
    - As always, Fujifilm JPEG engine is best in class and they exceeded what I have seen them do with the EXR sensor when shooting at native resolution where it tends to become a bit of a resolution softness.
    - The camera to me does pass the camera in jeans pocket test. Maybe a tight fit sitting down but it does.

    Less good:

    - I honestly found the camera complicated interface wise and I think I need to explain a bit- I don't mean "oh I am only using it for five minutes complicated". I mean like the whole usability of the UI/buttons combined with the attempt at retro feels mixed. I believe the X100 was commented by some for the same.

    Personally I think Fuji in going retro to basics should have done a more basic barebones interface and set of options. I honestly find the Pentax Q ergonomics far more photographer centric. Another example would be the Sigma DPx series. The Sigma in particular is very to the point.

    - Raist

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Here is a jpeg straight from the camera. EXR mode "Dynamic Range" setting (6MP).

    f5.6, 1/105s/ ISO 640

    Colors are good. Could use some more sharpening, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. Interface is different to what I'm used to.

    Keith


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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post

    Less good:

    - I honestly found the camera complicated interface wise and I think I need to explain a bit- I don't mean "oh I am only using it for five minutes complicated". I mean like the whole usability of the UI/buttons combined with the attempt at retro feels mixed. I believe the X100 was commented by some for the same.


    - Raist
    I think using the camera in Aperture/Shutter Priority or Manual mode is dead easy. I like the controls good detents and the upper control wheel moves easily but in a very controlled way. I have ISO on the fn button on the top deck for right now.

    So, that means ISO, EV, A or S, AE/AF lock, move the AF area, change the drive mode, change the exposure (spot/multi) are all simple and intuitive. That is 99% the way I shoot.

    What will take a bunch of time and is confusing are the different EXR type modes and how to in a simple way take advantage of them. I'm going to try and save two of those as the custom modes.

    So, as people figure out (what I consider) the confusing stuff, please post it here.

    p.s. it will take me a short while to program my brain to remember to use the +/- keys to enlarge a shot. I've had other cameras like this before and liked it that way.

    The camera is all aspects feels faster than the X100.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    EXR mode "DR" setting, 1/200s, f2, ISO 100. Jpeg straight from camera.

    In the very harsh early morning fall light the DR mode works really well

    Keith


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    Re: Fuji X10

    Unprocessed raw image: f5.6, 1/2000s, IS0 640

    shadow detail is nice - hope you can see it.

    Keith


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    Re: Fuji X10

    Kai at DigitalRev has his review posted. Entertaining as usual.

    I later a link that isn't working. Will edit again when I get home.

    In the meantime you can get to it this way:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=39772065

  13. #63
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    Re: Fuji X10

    I just posted the rest of the ISO test images in this subforum.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Kai at DigitalRev has his review posted. Entertaining as usual.

    I later a link that isn't working. Will edit again when I get home.

    In the meantime you can get to it this way:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=39772065
    He got the DR mode wrong! But then it seems complicated to me to set that right :-)

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji X10

    It just occured to me how the manual zoom affects the handling of this camera. Whereas mainstream compacts can be used one-handed even if you want to change focal length, the X10 is more of a two-handed camera. Not necessarily a bad thing, and it ties in with using the OVF.

    Question to owners: How is the viewfinder so far? Keith can you compare to Canon G9/G10? I have this sour relationship with my G11, still sorely disappointed over the OVF. If I would sell it then now is the time as I get a better price in Europe, moving to California in three weeks.
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Lars

    The x10 OVF is a very positive experience after the G9/G10. With the Canons the OVF was so bad I found myself not using it. I guess that after 3 days of use I am using the OVF most of the time

    It's a similar experience to the classic fixed lens rangefinder such as the Canonet QL17, which I have in front of me. The X10 OVF is a titch smaller but much brighter.

    This is one of the main reasons I bought the camera. I'm not a "hold the cam at arms length to focus and frame" kind of person. I use an EVF on my other cameras, and this Fuji is more immediate, even though it doesn't show any information.

    Keith

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Yep I only used the G11 finder once.

    One advantage (in theory) with using an OVF over arms-length shooting style is stability in terms of holding camera against your eyebrow, I'm sure it's possible to gain one to three stops in long-exposure stability. Another advantage with (an adjustable) OVF is no need for reading glasses when shooting.
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    Re: Fuji X10

    I've just come back from a walk with the camera. I found this method of framing and focusing very useful.

    Use the OVF to do a rough frame and adjust the zoom (the camera will be against your eye). Bring the camera away from your face a bit so you can see the LCD - the central focus square will be quite easy to see. Move the camera to get the square on your focus point - then half press and listen for the beep. Bring back to your eye, do the final frame and shoot. After a few tries I found this to be very quick.

    Of course you don't need this refinement if the subject is big enough to gauge accurately through the OVF center point.

    Keith

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    Re: Fuji X10

    I used this focusing method on the horizontal log in this image taken at f2.8. Might have been difficult with the OVF alone.

    f2.8, 1/600s, ISO 400 EXR DR mode

    Keith


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    Re: Fuji X10

    Had the first time to shoot the X10 (owned by a fiend). Did not use Raw so far.



    Initial impressions:

    - feels solid
    - AEB is very fast
    - Have A-Priority and here handling is easy
    - OVF is nice and bright yet not precise
    - ISO not bad
    - Fuji has one winner more (I was not a fan of the X100 mainly due to the lens limitation)



    Last edited by ustein; 6th November 2011 at 14:55.
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Just lovely Uwe---need I say 'as always'.. I've been thinking of this one to replace my husband's G9 (and I could borrow it LOL).

    Diane

  22. #72
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    Luminous Landscape review of the X10

    Michael Reichmann is impressed, had only a few minor criticisms: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...ressions.shtml. He is, understandably, waiting for the next version of Lightroom before shooting RAW.

    He misses the lack of focus confirmation in the viewfinder, but I think if one listens to the beep that should overcome the problem.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    >201110_Chase_United_personal

    The X10 is in a different league.

    >He misses the lack of focus confirmation in the viewfinder, but I think if one listens to the beep that should overcome the problem.

    This + some basic info. But overall I am impressed too. If Fuji puts this experience into their mirror-less camera that will be something. I will buy the X10 and can see it the last P&S camera for a long time. The experience starts with a great feel.

    Some more images can be found here:

    http://outbackphoto.smugmug.com/DOPF...0-Field-Tests/
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    Re: Fuji X10

    So, a good replacement for the LX3/DLUX4, anyone?

    Still like my DLUX4 a lot, I must say.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    I had the DLux4 for a while. Reviewing those images, the IQ of the X10 is better (less noise)
    The X10 is a different shooting experience. The optical viewfinder will mean that you can get images easily in bright sun - I had trouble with the DLux4 LCD in bright sun. Also you can assume a normal viewing stance with the camera up to the eye.
    I prefer the manual zoom (also larger zoom range) and ergonomics, but the X10 is significantly larger, you may want to try it before you buy. Build quality about the same.

    Although the DLux4 is lovely, I would take the X10 given a choice

    Good luck

    Keith

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    Re: Fuji X10

    G11 sold will get a replacement after the holidays. Whether that is an X10 or perhaps one of the m43 models remains to be seen - I'm sure I am willing to sacrifice some pocketability for better photography experience.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Thanks for that! Any comment on video performance?

    I will keep my eye on this little camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I had the DLux4 for a while. Reviewing those images, the IQ of the X10 is better (less noise)
    The X10 is a different shooting experience. The optical viewfinder will mean that you can get images easily in bright sun - I had trouble with the DLux4 LCD in bright sun. Also you can assume a normal viewing stance with the camera up to the eye.
    I prefer the manual zoom (also larger zoom range) and ergonomics, but the X10 is significantly larger, you may want to try it before you buy. Build quality about the same.

    Although the DLux4 is lovely, I would take the X10 given a choice

    Good luck

    Keith

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I think using the camera in Aperture/Shutter Priority or Manual mode is dead easy. I like the controls good detents and the upper control wheel moves easily but in a very controlled way. I have ISO on the fn button on the top deck for right now.

    So, that means ISO, EV, A or S, AE/AF lock, move the AF area, change the drive mode, change the exposure (spot/multi) are all simple and intuitive. That is 99% the way I shoot.

    What will take a bunch of time and is confusing are the different EXR type modes and how to in a simple way take advantage of them. I'm going to try and save two of those as the custom modes.

    So, as people figure out (what I consider) the confusing stuff, please post it here.
    What I mean by that for example is, in the brief moment I used it we couldn't figure out what was going on with the EXR modes. And I have to say I am not happy with the vertical column of left buttons and then that dreaded Canon PowerShotTM dial. That interface just has to die. But ok.

    - Raist

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    What I mean by that for example is, in the brief moment I used it we couldn't figure out what was going on with the EXR modes. And I have to say I am not happy with the vertical column of left buttons and then that dreaded Canon PowerShotTM dial. That interface just has to die. But ok.

    - Raist
    Agree that EXR modes are not straight forward and the manual doesn't help. "The Fuji Guys" are apparently working on a set of videos so hopefully they will cover what I need.

    I love the left buttons....perhaps because I'm left handed and they feel like they are in a great spot for me.

    I really have no idea what the issue is with the PowerShot dial. That dial is truly only used if you want it to be used. I've just gone back and looked at the manual again and i can confirm that the top command dial and the sub command dial can be used interchangeably. I went through every instance that the sub command dial is mentioned in the manual and can confirm the only time you use that dial is for manual focus. I haven't yet used the dial you hate except to manually focus but this is really not a manual focus camera.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Terry, what I hate about that dial (in all its forms, and that means all cameras that have it) is that you have a cross of buttons (four) and then the dial. In pretty much all the cameras that have said dial if you press the buttons you get a tactile feel of spinning that wheel.

    And if you spin the wheel you may press a button. When you don't, it just feels as if you are walking on the edge of pressing the other. It's just an interface I think it's not really ideal. Fuji is hardly the only one.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Fair enough.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    I'm normally not one for buying newly released gear, but this time I couldn't help myself. My X10 should be here tomorrow.

    I've taken more than a year off from photography and have found myself reluctant to pick up the film Leica gear again - the workflow is more trouble than it's worth and I have no intention of setting up a wet darkroom again. (I've been shooting BW400CN or XP2, having it scanned commercially, and then post at home.)

    I can't justify or afford an M9, M8, RD or even an X100 right now, so I'm going to give this little box a try for my urban stuff. I think it'll work out fine.
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    I'm normally not one for buying newly released gear, but this time I couldn't help myself. My X10 should be here tomorrow.

    I've taken more than a year off from photography and have found myself reluctant to pick up the film Leica gear again - the workflow is more trouble than it's worth and I have no intention of setting up a wet darkroom again. (I've been shooting BW400CN or XP2, having it scanned commercially, and then post at home.)

    I can't justify or afford an M9, M8, RD or even an X100 right now, so I'm going to give this little box a try for my urban stuff. I think it'll work out fine.
    Have fun with it. Certainly more fun than scanning.....I shot a little bit with jpegs set to B&W with a red filter and liked what I was getting.

  34. #84
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Adobe has release candidates up for ACR and LR and they don't support X10 RAW files.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Fuji X10

    >is that you have a cross of buttons (four) and then the dial. In pretty much all the cameras that have said dial if you press the buttons you get a tactile feel of spinning that wheel.

    Don't like this either but live with it :-)

    >Adobe has release candidates up for ACR and LR and they don't support X10 RAW files.

    Too bad. This is also often a sign how well a company works with Adobe (getting them a camera and specs).
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >Adobe has release candidates up for ACR and LR and they don't support X10 RAW files.

    Too bad. This is also often a sign how well a company works with Adobe (getting them a camera and specs).
    I suspect this may have something to do with the nature of the EXR concept. It might simply require more work from Adobe's side. With the old Super CCD from Fuji, they were never up to the kind of results that could be obtained with Fuji's own software.

  37. #87
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    Re: Fuji X10

    As far as i recall from building raw converters a few years ago, SuperCCD raw files have a diagonal layout that the raw converter has to handle in a different way than a straight Bayer layout.
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    As far as i recall from building raw converters a few years ago, SuperCCD raw files have a diagonal layout that the raw converter has to handle in a different way than a straight Bayer layout.
    The diagrams showing the details of the EXR sensor indeed point out that it is different.

    You can see the layout in the LuLa review

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...ressions.shtml

  39. #89
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    Re: Fuji X10

    The two sensor types have in common that in high DR mode, two sets of sensor cells are exposed differently to achieve the extra DR.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Don't like this either but live with it :-)
    Haha.. well if I get the X10, yes, I will put up with it ;-) But my god I hate it. The first cameras that had this if I remember correctly where the Canons.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Adobe has release candidates up for ACR and LR and they don't support X10 RAW files.
    The X10 is just coming out. It's new. Adobe not always has the RAW support ready to go like that on a brand new model.

    - Raist

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Haha.. well if I get the X10, yes, I will put up with it ;-) But my god I hate it. The first cameras that had this if I remember correctly where the Canons.

    - Ricardo
    Watch out you are starting to sound like me and my undying love for the Oly UI .

  43. #93
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    Re: Fuji X10

    I've just sold all my small sensor cameras on ebay.
    It's like a weight off my mind, now I don't have to feel guilty about not using them anymore.

    . . . . if I get tempted again, I'll just compare the size with a NEX 5n!

    NEX 5n compared to X10

    Hooray!

    p.s. thanks Terry for setting me freeeeeeeeeeee

    Just this guy you know

  44. #94
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Watch out you are starting to sound like me and my undying love for the Oly UI .
    Oh yeah :-) Keep in mind, this put me off the E-PL3… because… drum roll - it has that wheel! :-)

    On the X10 then you get the vertical row of buttons on the left. The problem: hard to hold the camera without touching on *some* buttons, and if you are touching on that wheel, ay.

    I may still go for it, but still mulling this. Or maybe just wait. Next year the successor of the LX5 should be interesting (unless Panasonic screws up), and Pentax is to announce something new next year to "plug a hole" in the line.

    My fear is that that could be either a FF camera (I doubt it), or a built in lens, larger sensor camera - which is fine but if it doesn't fit in a pocket, it's a no go.

    I was surprised the X10 does. That's huge ++ for it.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I've just sold all my small sensor cameras on ebay.
    It's like a weight off my mind, now I don't have to feel guilty about not using them anymore.

    . . . . if I get tempted again, I'll just compare the size with a NEX 5n!

    NEX 5n compared to X10

    Hooray!

    p.s. thanks Terry for setting me freeeeeeeeeeee
    Big applause on selling equipment. It will help you keep more focused on your photography and like you said, it does take a weight off.

    I have a nice collection of 4/3rd lenses and I have been ever wondering what to do with them.

    - Raist

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Interesting thought of the day:

    Could you shoot a wedding on an X10? I am getting a hunch you could. The only huge cons I am seeing in it is that battery life (which means just carry a load of them). And if you could do that, could I be happy selling my Pentax and keep only ONE camera.. the X10?

    This is my latest crazy thought.

    - Ricardo

  47. #97
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I've just sold all my small sensor cameras on ebay.
    It's like a weight off my mind, now I don't have to feel guilty about not using them anymore.

    . . . . if I get tempted again, I'll just compare the size with a NEX 5n!

    NEX 5n compared to X10

    Hooray!

    p.s. thanks Terry for setting me freeeeeeeeeeee
    The problem of the Nex 5n in this comparison is the lenses. When Sony makes high quality optical pancakes, I think they have a win. Until then…


    (a win for the small, excellent quality camera).

    - Ricardo

  48. #98
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Oh yeah :-)
    On the X10 then you get the vertical row of buttons on the left. The problem: hard to hold the camera without touching on *some* buttons, and if you are touching on that wheel, ay.


    - Ricardo
    Shooting my left hand is on the lens.
    Review it is on the camera - right where all the playback controls are conveniently located

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Have fun with it. Certainly more fun than scanning.....I shot a little bit with jpegs set to B&W with a red filter and liked what I was getting.
    I'm actually hoping that setting it up for RAW + JPEG with the 'pegs in one of the B&W modes will be a great visualization tool. I'm horribly out of practice...
    ---
    Ken

  50. #100
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    Re: Fuji X10

    I thought about looking on brandon's Blog to see what he has done with the X10 but just hadn't gotten there until now. He works for Fuji and had a lot of good blog entries when the X100 came out. He was also able to answer some questions on the X100 forum. I can't link directly to the blog you need to go to the main site and select it. His last 5 plus entries cover his shooting with the X10

    http://www.brandonremler.com/

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