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Thread: Fun with the Fuji X10

  1. #101
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Here's some interesting math: at widest setting the X10 lens has a 3.55 mm max aperture, and at longest setting the max aperture is 10.1 mm.

    Compare this to a typical m43 kit zoom lens like the Panasonic 14-42/3.5-5.6, with 4 mm aperture at widest and 7.5 mm aperture at longest focal length.

    Two conclusions from this (ignoring the fact that wide and tele ends have a bit different angles of view):
    - X10 lens is able to defocus to at least the same degree as a m43 kit lens;
    - X10 lens captures at least as much light as a m43 kit lens, which despite difference in sensor size should be reflected in sensitivity and noise levels being comparable. In theory, that is - for a given shutter speed a lower ISO can be used on X10.

    I think that's what people are seeing in actual use?
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Here's some interesting math: at widest setting the X10 lens has a 3.55 mm max aperture, and at longest setting the max aperture is 10.1 mm.

    Compare this to a typical m43 kit zoom lens like the Panasonic 14-42/3.5-5.6, with 4 mm aperture at widest and 7.5 mm aperture at longest focal length.

    Two conclusions from this (ignoring the fact that wide and tele ends have a bit different angles of view):
    - X10 lens is able to defocus to at least the same degree as a m43 kit lens;
    - X10 lens captures at least as much light as a m43 kit lens, which despite difference in sensor size should be reflected in sensitivity and noise levels being comparable. In theory, that is.

    I think that's what people are seeing in actual use?
    That is definitely what I am seeing, and its getting me completely fuddled (mixed up and baffled).

    The obvious differences in IQ between categories of sensor sizes, camera types, sizes etc are getting smeared with these new products we have seen in the past year.

    If you use a GRX it becomes even more of an enigma because I can use my M-mount with a Leica lens and get images up to par with, dare I say it (but read the reviews) the M8 and in some respects the M9. I then go out with my P10 module plugged in and do those nice gritty black and white shots like the ones that I admire so much from Daido Moriyama . . . and I am using the same camera body and user interface.

    I have a couple of M4/3 kits, a Sony a55 DSLR, a GRX with four modules and now an x10. I also do a lot of 35 film. I find I am using the GRX and my film cameras most of the time, and the x10.

    I think for the people like me who don't do humongous prints the new era of Small Is Beautiful is here. I've just bought a beautiful Maxxum 7D, probably, the largest and heaviest camera I have, with a dazzling 6MP to match those on the EXR mode of my x10.

    Keith

  3. #103
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Fun with X10

    Got now my own one (shot in JPEG).







    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fun with X10

    Just very nice Uwe. From all I read it seems a number of reviewers see it in a different class from P&S. Where do you feel it falls? Maybe you aren't ready to make that assessment until you shoot with it more but I'll be interested in your thoughts.

    Diane

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    Re: Fun with X10

    >rom all I read it seems a number of reviewers see it in a different class from P&S.

    Very different in many aspects:

    - ISO 400 and 800 can be usable
    - Nice rangefinder viewer
    - Fast AEB bracketing
    - fast zoom (like XZ1)
    - Manual zoom
    - well built
    - amazing image quality for a small sensor
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  6. #106
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with X10

    Nice work, beautifully presented as always Uwe... thanks for sharing.

    Brian

  7. #107
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with X10

    Thanks.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  8. #108
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    Re: Fun with X10

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Thanks.
    Hello Uve,
    My X10 arrived Yesterday and today i made some test shots,
    may i ask you which raw converter do you use? (if you use one)

  9. #109
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    Re: Fun with X10

    >may i ask you which raw converter do you use? (if you use one)

    All shots derived from JPEGs.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  10. #110
    New Member anfrve's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with X10

    Thanks !

    waiting for a good one (or Lightroom update)...

  11. #111
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    Re: Fun with X10

    I normally use only Raw but these JPEGs are not bad. Somewhat clipped in the shadows though.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  12. #112
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    Re: Fun with X10

    ISO 800, f/2.8, 1/13 sec (handheld) in a very dark room. Have shot it many times and don't think the other pics were better.

    Uwe Steinmueller
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  13. #113
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    Re: Fuji X10

    I went for a walk at the Ferry Terminal market this morning.

    I tried a number of different settings, including face detection so I could use the viewfinder without having o focus and recompose. I had some mixed results....some being user error. I did shoot bracketed and still managed to blow a bunch of highlights so I do await RAW files. I didn't use EXR dynamic range but will try that.

    Here are number of quick shots. I really like the color. I used some fill and recovery but didn't touch any colors.


















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    Re: Fuji X10

    Fuji colors are so nice. The roasting meat, Swiss chard and peppers look exactly as they do in my world LOL.

  15. #115
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    Re: Fuji X10

    >The roasting meat and peppers look exactly as they do in my world

    Think so too.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fuji X10

    The roasting meat is delicious but not really at 10AM.

    Got an message from a friend today. He was at a camera show in Austin.
    Fuji rep was there, and had a sample of the hood and leather case. The hood will cost $50 but no estimate on when it is going to be available.
    Also, Precision Camera in Austin apparently has about 15 of the X10's in stock.

  17. #117
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Today we shot some well known scenes in overcast (love it). All images are based on camera JPEGs.









    We like the results. Let alone from a P&S small sensor camera.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  18. #118
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    Re: Fuji X10





    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Uwe - these all look good.

  20. #120
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Decided to start seeing what the EXR modes can do....nothing like starting with a torture test.


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    Re: Fun with X10

    Nice shots, Uwe. I drove from Dallas to Austin today to pick up an X10 from Precision Camera.. they had 16 left after I bought mine. Charging batteries now and reading the manual.. will try it out tomorrow and see if it will work for me. First impressions are positive.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: Fun with X10

    Jim,

    very interested what you get out of the X10. Like your style of photography a lot.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  23. #123
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    Re: Fuji X10

    >these all look good.

    I like them.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  24. #124
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Hi folks, I merged the thread running in Small Sensor Forum and Fuji Forums. Lodged it all in the Fuji forum.

    Sorry if a few things look out of order.

  25. #125
    Allan Ostling
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Decided to start seeing what the EXR modes can do....nothing like starting with a torture test.
    Sunset, over the Sutro Baths. That brings back memories – as a kid I swam in that saltwater pool. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutro_Baths

    It looks like the shadows need more of a boost. Of course that can be done in Lightroom.

  26. #126
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Ostling View Post
    Sunset, over the Sutro Baths. That brings back memories as a kid I swam in that salt-water pool.

    It looks like the shadows need more of a boost. Of course that can be done in Lightroom.
    I gave them a little boost but I'm working with a smallish jpeg there. I want to see what I can do when I can get my hands on a preferred RAW converter.

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    Re: Fuji X10

    It seems the EXR capabilities are available even when not in the EXR switched mode - I found this blog very useful (thank you Serious Compacts)

    http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009...t-it-mkii.html

    Keith

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    It seems the EXR capabilities are available even when not in the EXR switched mode - I found this blog very useful (thank you Serious Compacts)

    http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009...t-it-mkii.html

    Keith
    I have C2 set up as a medium jpeg, DR 400, RAW+jpeg
    When shooting this way you get a smaller jpeg + a raw that is the same size as a full sized shot but with the reduced pixel dimensions. I took some shots side by side with this setting and EXR dynamic range. I will compare them when I get RAW supports.

    I did find it interesting that you can still do a bracketed exposure with EXR selected.

  29. #129
    Allan Ostling
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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I gave them a little boost but I'm working with a smallish jpeg there. I want to see what I can do when I can get my hands on a preferred RAW converter.
    Yes, I forgot that in EXR mode you are dealing with only 6 megapixels.

    Another mode which I've not seen examples of is Pro Low-Light, selected by turning the mode dial to Adv. From the manual:

    Each time the shutter button is pressed, the camera makes four exposures an combines them into a single photograph. Use to reduce noise and blur whn photographing poorly lit subject or static subjects at high zoom rates.

  30. #130
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    I agree about the colours - fab - lovely pics Uwe and Terry.
    Still not tempted though

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    @Uwe/Terry -

    I think what the X10 really has going for it is that at these picture sizes, the shots look chock full of detail and having that "DSLR presence" that a good lens will give you matched to a reasonable sensor.

    On the highlights blown- yes Terry, EXR 400% should take care of that. Those modes should be excellent for dealing with that and it is *the point* of the EXR sensor. I personally don't care it's 6 megapixels, that's enough for an 8x10 print or anything you want to do on the web.

    I also think this is probably one of if not the very best JPEG engine Fuji has ever done in any of its cameras (and I am including here the S3/S5 Pro DSLR's though those had the benefit of having an SLR SR class sensor).

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    I'm trying to remember what you have 😊😊😊. Did I understand you have sworn off and sold all your small cams??


    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I agree about the colours - fab - lovely pics Uwe and Terry.
    Still not tempted though

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    i agree Ricardo. I'm following this thread because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    @Uwe/Terry -

    I think what the X10 really has going for it is that at these picture sizes, the shots look chock full of detail and having that "DSLR presence" that a good lens will give you matched to a reasonable sensor.

    sensor).

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Decided to start seeing what the EXR modes can do....nothing like starting with a torture test.

    Nothing like the baths in the evening though I like the view from lower
    -bob

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    Re: Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Nothing like the baths in the evening though I like the view from lower
    -bob
    Yeah I thought about going down lower yesterday but there were so many people that they would have been more prominent in the photos and the sunset wasn't looking all the promising with very little in the way of clouds to bounce around some pretty light. Looking forward to the rougher higher winter tides that seem to merge the view of the baths and ocean a little bit more.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I'm trying to remember what you have 😊😊😊. Did I understand you have sworn off and sold all your small cams??
    HI Diane
    No - the Nex 5N is smaller than anything except the Pentax Q
    But yes - I've got rid of all my small sensor cameras, nothing less than APS/c. It's not that there's anything wrong with them . . just that I didn't use them!

    Just this guy you know

  37. #137
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    JPEG in EXR mode (Evening sun light on the tower)



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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    All kidding aside, the tonality and 3D feel to the picture is cool. You really feel like you can reach out and touch it.

  40. #140
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Actually the Phone is hanging outdoors in the air as shown. The background is a house wall.
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10






    Last edited by ustein; 14th November 2011 at 20:19.
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Uwe:

    Any special pp in your Fort Ord image. The wood texture is great.

    Martin
    Last edited by Martin S; 15th November 2011 at 04:56.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    No question about it. The X10 is a must have, at least for me. Excellent for travel in this part of the world, particularly in combination with a film body (for bw). There's a waiting list at my local pusher's. I should probably sign up on that and at the same time ask him to sell a couple of obsolete bodies.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    >Any special pp in your Fort Ord image. The wood texture is great.

    I have published my usual workflow here:

    http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_...ion/index.html

    Here mostly my Tonality Master script was used because the camera sharpens already (too) much.
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    If you use camera JPEG images the in camera Picture Style settings are crucial.
    Here are our Picture Style settings (for JPEGs):
    Image Size: Large
    Dynamic Range: 200%
    Film Simulation: STD
    Color: MID
    Sharpness: M-SOFT (to avoid over sharpening with halos)
    Highlight Tone: M-SOFT
    Shadow Tone: SOFT (shows more open shadows)
    Noise Reduction: LOW
    These settings are made to allow the most options in your post processing. Blocked shadows and clipped highlights cannot be undone later.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Uwe, the problem with you and your pictures are that they say very little about a camera. The tonality which you manage to show in all your images, from whatever camera, is never short of incredible, helped by your general soft rendering style. The tonality you show I've only ever seen in my own images from what to me has always been my benchmark of tonality, the 1Ds3. You manage it from a P&S!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Thanks. Not really hard.

    Now with the shadows set to "SOFT" it should actually improve.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  48. #148
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Thanks to Uwe for the suggested JPEG settings - I will give them a try.

    Note that not all combinations of settings are available: e.g. if the ISO is set to Auto(1600), or even direct 1600, the SOFT option is not available for Shadow Tone - only STANDARD, MEDIUM HARD, and HARD (ISO must be 800 or lower, and the camera can not be in Program Mode for MEDIUM SOFT or SOFT to be available for Shadow Tone). In a bit of playing with settings, a couple of times I noticed that changing one setting resulted in another setting being changed or re-set. My brief perusal of the manual did not find any documentation of these restrictions.
    Last edited by Arjuna; 15th November 2011 at 19:09. Reason: Additional information.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    Thanks to Uwe for the suggested JPEG settings - I will give them a try.

    Note that not all combinations of settings are available: e.g. if the ISO is set to Auto(1600), or even direct 1600, the SOFT option is not available for Shadow Tone - only STANDARD, MEDIUM HARD, and HARD (ISO must be 800 or lower, and the camera can not be in Program Mode for MEDIUM SOFT or SOFT to be available for Shadow Tone). In a bit of playing with settings, a couple of times I noticed that changing one setting resulted in another setting being changed or re-set. My brief perusal of the manual did not find any documentation of these restrictions.
    Yup, I just found the ISO 1600 SOFT incompatibility. The good news on the settings changes is that the camera alerts you that it is making the change by showing the function in yellow.

    I think I just figured out what is going to go on my C2 setting! I think it will be my high ISO emergency settings. This way I won't change ISO in my regular aperture priority thereby resetting the SOFT setting.

    Now we know what the camera is doing in high ISOs....crushing the shadows "look ma, no noise".

  50. #150
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    >the ISO 1600 SOFT incompatibility.

    Not a big deal as ISO 1600 should be just used in emergencies. The camera can use f/2-2.8 in low light and this helps already.
    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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