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Thread: Fun with the Fuji X10

  1. #201
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    I am afraid this it the sensor (maybe even pixels leaking light to the side). Shot with which settings. Did you set Highlights to soft?
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  2. #202
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Thanks Jono - wow, what lens will you be using with the NEX7?

    You're right though... I too have waaaay too many cameras and I'm not using any of them enough right now!

    Hope you're well

    Brian
    Hi Brian
    Fab thanks - a bit busy though - hope you're good too.
    NEX7 lenses eh - well, from my experience with the 5n I'd say:
    E mount 18-200 (better than any mega zoom deserves to be)
    Leica R mount 28 - 90 f2.8/f4.5 (I think I'm in love)
    Leica 180 f2.8 APO (is also gorgeous)
    E mount 16mm - I've got it, and it's better than it's reports (mine is anyway)
    . . . hovering over the Zeiss 24 f1.8 but we'll see!

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  3. #203
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    Re: Jono...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post
    It's probably best you held off on the X10.. it does have one glaring wart, see my review of the issue at http://www.boxedlight.com/x10

    It seems to have an issue with handling specular highlights.. some of have indicated this is caused by operator error but I am not so sure. At any rate the camera is a pleasure to use and works quite well for what and how I shoot. Love the feel of the thing and the form factor.

    I had a chance to handle the NEX-7 in Austin, Texas several weeks ago and was, at the time, considering it, the form factor put me off. It just did not feel comfortable in my hands. I look forward to seeing what you get from it.
    Hi Jim
    My - as others say - what a bunch of great photos you have . . . . I'm not naive enough to think it's the camera (or at least, not just the camera).
    I haven't been lucky enough to play with a NEX7, but I've spent enough time with the 5n to know that I can manage the odd interface. Sounds like it may be the new year before they turn up though.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  4. #204
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: Jono...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Jim
    My - as others say - what a bunch of great photos you have . . . . I'm not naive enough to think it's the camera (or at least, not just the camera).
    I haven't been lucky enough to play with a NEX7, but I've spent enough time with the 5n to know that I can manage the odd interface. Sounds like it may be the new year before they turn up though.

    all the best
    Thanks, Jono and all of those on the X10 page were shot over a 14 day period I believe.. I finally had some free time and it's no longer 105 degrees in the shade.

    The NEX7 will be just like the NEX5 in handling.. my son and I went to a camera show in Austin a couple of weeks ago and they had one for people to play with, Fuji was there as well.. not a bad show for a city like Austin.

    I just felt uncomfortable holding it.. but that's just me.
    Jim Radcliffe
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  5. #205
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I am afraid this it the sensor (maybe even pixels leaking light to the side). Shot with which settings. Did you set Highlights to soft?
    No, I made no adjustments to the highlights settings.. just camera default.

    I am guessing this is a characteristic of the sensor design.. much like how the Foveon sensor in the DP1 tended to smear highlights. If that is the case, I am not sure how they could fix it with firmware.

    I will probably keep the X10.. as I said in a post on DPReview, it does too many things well for the one thing it doesn't do well to cause me to return it.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Guys we got some half-official comment from Fuji Germany about the issue, on another forum.

    Word is, that Fuji Japan is looking into the issue and will release a statement within a week, or two.

    Jim , I agree with you.
    The camera is a great tool, overall.
    Will keep it, too.
    My Flickr

  7. #207
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    One from tonight... went out for Chinese... and this shot is another reason I don't want to part with the X10. Dinner was good too.

    Jim Radcliffe
    www.boxedlight.com

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Interesting that the specular highlight off the hanging wok didn't create a blob nor did the high hat lights cause a problem for the sensor. Finally one other spot that could have been problematic is the metal for the exhaust hood behind the wok.

    The only spot I've seen the problem seems to be very harsh highlight bouncing off of metal outdoors.

    Unless you photoshopped out problems LOL

  9. #209
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Interesting that the specular highlight off the hanging wok didn't create a blob nor did the high hat lights cause a problem for the sensor. Finally one other spot that could have been problematic is the metal for the exhaust hood behind the wok.

    The only spot I've seen the problem seems to be very harsh highlight bouncing off of metal outdoors.

    Unless you photoshopped out problems LOL
    Nope.. I did not see a single Orb in this shot and because all of the light is indirect.. not head on, there are no blobs of light... also the intensity was not high enough to cause an issue.... No Photoshop involved.

    The problem does exist. I've proven it to my own satisfaction.. if you've not been to my X10 section on my website, please visit.. took a water shot today and the results are as I expected.. pretty ugly.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Oh, I've seen your blog and know that it happens and that is why I made the comments I did. I will go back and look and see if you have problem pictures on water and I will go back and look at some of my pictures that have shiny bits in bright sun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post
    Nope.. I did not see a single Orb in this shot and because all of the light is indirect.. not head on, there are no blobs of light... also the intensity was not high enough to cause an issue.... No Photoshop involved.

    The problem does exist. I've proven it to my own satisfaction.. if you've not been to my X10 section on my website, please visit.. took a water shot today and the results are as I expected.. pretty ugly.

  11. #211
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    I took a look at the threads at dpreview, and to me it seems that the orb thing is a software/firmware problem. Some sample shots have orbs of different size - sun reflections in water - and I cannot see how a hardware problem could create perfectly round orbs of different sizes. Admittedly I'm no expert but I think there is reason to hope for the possibility of a firmware fix from Fuji.

    Further guessing: Different size orbs would indicate that orb size is related to intensity of specular highlight. I could see how Fuji engineered its EXR tone mapping to let high intensity bloom into neighboring pixels, and for some scenes it could perhaps work well but in the case of high intensity specular highlights it obviously gets quite unattractive.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  12. #212
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    The white blobs should render as "stars", points of light with rays radiating out from the center point of the specular highlight.. IF proper exposure is set up before the shot is taken. That is what everyone wants the camera to render, star-like specular highlights.

    There is just no telling if this is sensor related or in-camera processing related or a combination of both. I wish the problem did not exist but I believe I can live with it for what and how I shoot.

    One thing I want to try...
    One thing I want to try to do is set the camera to manual focus and try shooting something like a bit of chrome on an automobile which has specular highlights.. when you begin to use the fine focus wheel on the X10 it magnifys the image. This should allow me to see if the LCD displays the "Orbs" or not. If the orbs are not visible on the LCD then it might be a processing issue "after" the shutter is tripped. If the orbs are visible on the LCD then it might appear to be a sensor issue... but then who knows how much processing is going on prior to the scene being displayed on the LCD?

    Bottom line is that if the orbs do not appear in the LCD and they do appear in the captured image then we might have a better handle on what is the root cause of the orbs or at least where the problem begins, before or after the shot is taken. I'll try to find time to do this today.

    I have already decided that I am going to keep the X10 as, for me, the issue is not going to interfere with much of what I shoot.. but, I'm sure I will be bothered by it when it does.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Jim,
    If you are in the testing mode and have a spot where you can produce a blob, perhaps you could also try the soft highlight setting the Uwe suggested. I'm not hopeful but worth a try. Also, has anyone yet looked at the raw files?

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Is my understanding correct that the X10's max shutter speed in aperture priority mode is 1/1000 only, which requires stopping down quite a bit in good light. And in sunlight does this require stopping down to levels where one has to deal with lens diffraction? This does sound like a design flaw to me, as the max. shutter speed is higher in other modes.

  15. #215
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    The problem is it shows also with Raw files
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Jim I just looked at the X10 water shot you referred to. Yeah, that's no goo but looking at how those dots are I think the key is to "make them work." I can see that working for a shot that looks more like a Japanese painting or the like… somehow it probably works. But that's a specific case, certainly.

    I thought the X10 spot bright thing was one of these super rare things but now that you show it, seems like it can happen relatively commonly in any shot with bright spots. I would still like to check out the X10 one last time but looks like I am keeping the Q.

    - Raist

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    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Just finished my test...

    I just returned from my lunch hour (spent hunting orbs) and they DO show up in the LCD as well as on the image captured. So, what you see is what you get as far as the X10 is concerned. Conclusion? I have none. I was hoping the orbs/blobs would not appear on the LCD so that it might be an internal processing issue which could be rectified with a firmware fix of some sort... and that still may be the case.

    I certainly understand those who will return the camera due to this issue/fault and also understand those, like myself, who will keep their X10 and why. For me, when it really counts, I would be using my K5 rather than the X10 anyway. It was not purchased to be my main camera and I can live with this issue.

    The X10, in the two and a half weeks I have used it, has produced some great images and it is quite versatile when you consider all the features it offers. Maybe Fuji was aware of the issue prior to going to production, maybe not. At any rate, I will keep mine because it is so good on a number of levels and it is fun to use.

    I am probably done "testing" the X10 in regards to the orbs/blobs and will hope that Fuji will find a way to handle the issue. For now I will use and enjoy the X10 for what it can do very well.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    @Jim

    Want to make clear I am not suggesting the x10 is bad or anything
    Nor me choosing a Q over the X should imply one camera worse than the other. If I had an x10 I would try to make the "defect" work for Me.


    As for showing in the LCD, yeah it should. It's the image data. Wouldn't be surprised of it was firmware fixable or not, 50/50.

    Raist

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    Re: Just finished my test...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post
    I am probably done "testing" the X10 in regards to the orbs/blobs and will hope that Fuji will find a way to handle the issue. For now I will use and enjoy the X10 for what it can do very well.
    Indeed - quite right too - It's possible there's a camera without some sort of a glitch . . . but it's also possible there isn't

    A time comes when it's better to simply make a decision and then enjoy what it does well (or get rid of it)

    You seem to be getting great shots from yours - enjoy!

    Just this guy you know

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Also a good question to ask: Would the image be very nice with proper specular highlight rendering. Most of the time specular highlights are a PITA.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Ok, to me this is a bit more concerning for the kind of photography I do:

    More orbs, to me this is a real life situation:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=39966934

    I would still like to give the X10 one last test drive before committing with a final choice to the Q.

    - Raist

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    There is another design flaw with the X10 which would bother me. Max shutter speed is capped at 1/1000 with the lens fully open and increase gradually as one stops down the lens. The only exception seems to be in M mode. As the camera has no ND filter build in, unlike the Q, under very bright conditions (sunny day on the slopes) one could be forced to stop down to levels were lens diffraction starts to become an issue.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    There is another design flaw with the X10 which would bother me. Max shutter speed is capped at 1/1000 with the lens fully open and increase gradually as one stops down the lens. The only exception seems to be in M mode. As the camera has no ND filter build in, unlike the Q, under very bright conditions (sunny day on the slopes) one could be forced to stop down to levels were lens diffraction starts to become an issue.
    Well, you cannot have everything in a point and shoot. Many P&S cameras of days gone by didn't even have 1/500th... and some of them still don't.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    There is another design flaw with the X10 which would bother me. Max shutter speed is capped at 1/1000 with the lens fully open and increase gradually as one stops down the lens. The only exception seems to be in M mode. As the camera has no ND filter build in, unlike the Q, under very bright conditions (sunny day on the slopes) one could be forced to stop down to levels were lens diffraction starts to become an issue.
    I have an ND filter mounted on the filter adapter.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    Well, you cannot have everything in a point and shoot. Many P&S cameras of days gone by didn't even have 1/500th... and some of them still don't.
    The shutter speed is true but the point is those don't need it. Their aperture is f3.5/f4.0 and slower. Basically the point is if you have lens speed as a feature it's good that the camera provides an n filter so you can use it in brighter light.

    The Olympus xz-1 has one, the fuji own x100 has one, the Pentax q has one when use with the prime or telephoto (the toy lenses don't need it as they are slower apertures). The q can actually do 1/8000th shutter speeds with the prime lens or telephoto.

    I want to make clear I am not dissing the x10, but putting this in context.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I have an ND filter mounted on the filter adapter.
    Certainly one can mount and Nd filter on the x10. But for reference and comparison this means portability goes down a notch, and you have to add te price of the adapter plus Nd filter.

    Again viable options but more considerations. All of a sudden the q price seems not too much higher for those who are comparing how the q stands price wise.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Certainly one can mount and Nd filter on the x10. But for reference and comparison this means portability goes down a notch, and you have to add te price of the adapter plus Nd filter.

    Again viable options but more considerations. All of a sudden the q price seems not too much higher for those who are comparing how the q stands price wise.
    True, but in my case I already owned the filter and putting it in my pocket when I'm out in really bright conditions is of little consequence.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    @Terry

    Well yeah. I mean if it works for you great. Just stating it more in general. The fuji adapter alone at amazon runs $68 USD. A good Nd filter easily goes to the $80+ range. Thats $150 us more.

    Biggest irony: the Q in the uk at Jessops right now is a toal of $548 USD equivalent here after their cash back offer.

    Also the x10 with the filter wouldn't fit in my pocket anymore. Though I would
    Imagine it's not to hard to take of and put back.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    And that Q price is including VAT, I believe. So if they were to ship to the US, the price excl VAT would be even lower.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    @Terry

    Well yeah. I mean if it works for you great. Just stating it more in general. The fuji adapter alone at amazon runs $68 USD. A good Nd filter easily goes to the $80+ range. Thats $150 us more.

    Biggest irony: the Q in the uk at Jessops right now is a toal of $548 USD equivalent here after their cash back offer.

    Also the x10 with the filter wouldn't fit in my pocket anymore. Though I would
    Imagine it's not to hard to take of and put back.
    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    Well, you cannot have everything in a point and shoot. Many P&S cameras of days gone by didn't even have 1/500th... and some of them still don't.
    Funny argument. Many things did not exist "of days gone by". With respect of max shutter speed/ND filter on board, the X10 is not at the standard of its older competitors, a pitty, since its slightly larger sensor and relatively fast zoom would invite for some dof control creativity, including in daylight. The Q has an electronic shutter with max speed of 1/8000 (and ND filter on board), the Nikon V1 a max speed of 1/16000 (no typo!). These two show what is technically possible in 2011/12. I'm not trying to bash the X10 as I think it is a very interesting camera producing impressive files for a point and shoot and I'm still on the fence whether or not to buy one. But Fuji made a few strange design decisions with this one.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    For those of you who may have missed it, Raw Developer (Iridient Digital) is now available for processing raw files from the X10.

    I use Raw Developer and have used it for a number of years. I have no affiliation with them other than as a user.

    Woody

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Uwe Steinmueller
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  33. #233
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Hello people
    I read and appreciate your posts and the high level pictures i see on this pages.
    Allow me to modestly join you with one that will look a
    exotic!
    This little compact camera delivers amazing jpeg. What will be raw files?
    Cheers.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Pierrico View Post
    Hello people
    I read and appreciate your posts and the high level pictures i see on this pages.
    Allow me to modestly join you with one that will look a
    exotic!
    This little compact camera delivers amazing jpeg. What will be raw files?
    Cheers.
    Pierrico,

    Wonderful shot! I'm very smitten with the color palette. What was the ISO?

    Thanks,

    Don Bryant
    Last edited by donbga; 4th December 2011 at 11:47. Reason: Ah. Re-read your post and it is a JPEG.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    And that Q price is including VAT, I believe. So if they were to ship to the US, the price excl VAT would be even lower.
    What camera does the 'Q' refer to?

    And does anyone know if an L bracket is available for the X10?

    Thanks,

    Don Bryant

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by donbga View Post
    What camera does the 'Q' refer to?

    And does anyone know if an L bracket is available for the X10?

    Thanks,

    Don Bryant
    It's the Pentax Q.

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by donbga View Post
    What camera does the 'Q' refer to?

    And does anyone know if an L bracket is available for the X10?

    Thanks,

    Don Bryant
    I had a prototype arca swiss L bracket for the NEX which happens to perfectly fit the X10. The issue will be that it uses the Arca Slide Fix size plate and therefore you need a clamp that takes that size. Read this as it works but isn't standard unless you standardize on Arca brackets that can take slide fix.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...light=Arca+nex

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I had a prototype arca swiss L bracket for the NEX which happens to perfectly fit the X10. The issue will be that it uses the Arca Slide Fix size plate and therefore you need a clamp that takes that size. Read this as it works but isn't standard unless you standardize on Arca brackets that can take slide fix.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...light=Arca+nex
    Looks like Kirk Enterprises has a similar solution.

    http://www.kirkphoto.com/Universal_Q...L-Bracket.html

    http://www.kirkphoto.com/Camera_Plate_for_Fuji_X10.html

    RRS is not showing a camera plate yet for the X10 but I'm sure they will eventually.

    Thanks.

  39. #239
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    I'm not defending the X10, as this highlight blob thing is real and is a problem. Furthermore, I have no plans to buy an X10.

    However:
    -I have seen a lot of great images taken with this camera.
    -I have not seen a single picture affect by the blobs that wasn't bad already (without the blobs).

    Just saying...

  40. #240
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by donbga View Post
    Pierrico,

    Wonderful shot! I'm very smitten with the color palette. What was the ISO?

    Thanks,

    Don Bryant
    Thanks Donbga

    The shot was 1250 iso without EXR. Couldn't see noise.

  41. #241
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I'm not defending the X10, as this highlight blob thing is real and is a problem. Furthermore, I have no plans to buy an X10.

    However:
    -I have seen a lot of great images taken with this camera.
    -I have not seen a single picture affect by the blobs that wasn't bad already (without the blobs).

    Just saying...
    Yeah, but the great images are from those who could produce great output even with a shoebox, such as Jim R or Uwe S. Haven't seen a bad picture from these guys with any of the cameras they tested. Just saying……

  42. #242
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10


    First outing with the Fuji X10 von oliverleschke auf Flickr

    At first I wasn't sure, if the X10 is small enough as my everyday camera.
    Now I know, it surely is.
    My Flickr

  43. #243
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Superb Oliver!

    I hope to get out and do something serious with my X10 before long, but it has already saved the day with its unique qualities when I stupidly didn't take my tripod, thus rendering my M9 useless in low light.



    the image is of 'Cucklet Church', at Eyam in Derbyshire (UK) where church services were held during the Great Plague of 1665/1666. It is a natural limestone cavern just outside the village.

    Steve

  44. #244
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    So looks like the blobs is indeed caused by characteristics of the sensor. Fuji confirms it:

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/12...mplansfirmware

    They are working on a firmware patch to try address the issue. First bravo for Fuji to come clean on this and try to address as much as they can the issue in firmware. Second, I must admit I am a bit surprised that blooming is the reason for this sensor. I thought a sensor with good DR like the Fuji has wouldn't be prone to this. First time I see it.

    But then there can be so many factors.

    Personally if I had one and they weren't showing in my photography (that means, those of you who have one, and you rarely seem them), I wouldn't worry about it.

    - Ricardo

  45. #245
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    I've been reviewing the accessories for the X10 and I didn't see a shutter release listed.

    Does the X10 have an electronic shutter release for hands free exposure?

  46. #246
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by donbga View Post
    I've been reviewing the accessories for the X10 and I didn't see a shutter release listed.

    Does the X10 have an electronic shutter release for hands free exposure?
    It has the usual self timer, 2 or 10 seconds, and it takes a standard cable release.

    Steve

  47. #247
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    and it takes a standard cable release.

    Steve
    Bummer! That's a retro feature I could do without.

  48. #248
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    X10: One From The Swamp

    Here is a shot I took the other day using the X10. There is a small swamp close by where birds tend to hangout in the winter because it is somewhat sheltered from the wind. I was attempting to get closer when the birds' Human Alarm evidently went off and they took to the air. I should have had the X10 in burst mode rather than single image.

    X10 was in Aperture Mode, 12MP, ISO 400, FL 28.4mm, 1/420s f/4.5
    Regular mode, not EXR
    Matrix Metering

    Last edited by Jim Radcliffe; 11th December 2011 at 07:42.
    Jim Radcliffe
    www.boxedlight.com

  49. #249
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X10

    Jim this could be a classic, beautiful.

  50. #250
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    Re: X10: One From The Swamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post
    Here is a shot I took the other day using the X10. There is a small swamp close by where birds tend to hangout in the winter because it is somewhat sheltered from the wind. I was attempting to get closer when the birds' Human Alarm evidently went off and they took to the air. I should have had the X10 in burst mode rather than single image.

    X10 was in Aperture Mode, 12MP, ISO 400, FL 28.4mm, 1/420s f/4.5
    Regular mode, not EXR
    Matrix Metering
    Boy Jim, the more work you show here in this thread the more I'm enticed to purchase this camera. Great work once again.

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