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Thread: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

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    Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Hi There
    I thought that these articles might be of interest from Sandy at ChromaSoft (cornerfix, PhotoRaw etc.)

    ChromaSoft: Demosaicing the Fuji X-Pro1 and its X-Trans CMOS sensor

    ChromaSoft: Demosaicing the Fuji X-Pro1 Part 2

    ChromaSoft: Demosaicing the Fuji X-Pro1 Part 3

    I'm not sure how much this amounts to in the real world, but I thought it was an interesting read.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member Braeside's Avatar
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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Yes Sandy knows his stuff. His PhotoRaw app for iOS does a really good job even with the oddball X-Pro 1 files, better than LR4.1 IMO. I did ask if he would consider a Mac version!
    David Anderson

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Quote Originally Posted by Braeside View Post
    Yes Sandy knows his stuff. His PhotoRaw app for iOS does a really good job even with the oddball X-Pro 1 files, better than LR4.1 IMO. I did ask if he would consider a Mac version!
    +1, Perhaps now that he has seen just how bad LR4.1 is he will reconsider and make us a Mac version of PhotoRaw.
    Carl
    Gallery

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, and a Mac version of PhotoRaw is an interesting idea, but there are already a whole lot of raw converters in that space - Aperture, LR, C1 SILKYPIX in the commercial space, RPP, RT, etc in the free/open source space. I don't think that PhotoRaw for the Mac would really get any "share of mind".

    Sandy

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    David - I think your recent misty Scottish posts are really lovely!
    Carl - It's interesting that in the discussions over the Leica MM files it became clear that even when demosaicing isn't required LR4 seems to be able to add stair stepping aliasing to the files by unnecessary input sharpening

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Quote Originally Posted by sandymc View Post
    Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, and a Mac version of PhotoRaw is an interesting idea, but there are already a whole lot of raw converters in that space - Aperture, LR, C1 SILKYPIX in the commercial space, RPP, RT, etc in the free/open source space. I don't think that PhotoRaw for the Mac would really get any "share of mind".

    Sandy
    Sadly I think you're right - for those of us who like to use a DAM, we seem to be caught between the Rock of LR4, and the Hard Place of Apple being so slow with new camera support in Aperture.

    I hadn't even realised that PhotoRaw was your baby - (I'm just off to get a copy now! MM support?

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I hadn't even realised that PhotoRaw was your baby - (I'm just off to get a copy now! MM support?
    Jono,

    No MM support yet. I'm toying with the idea of a special MM version but either way there probably won't be support till production versions of the MM ship.

    Suggest you try PhotoRaw Lite before buying - raw conversion on the iPad is not everybody's cup of tea.

    However, something I can tell is that the next version of PhotoRaw, due in about two weeks time, will be very substantial improvement - imports will be a full twice as fast. aka an import that takes 30 seconds now will go down to 15 seconds.

    Regards,

    Sandy
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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    I'm looking forward to that! Thanks Sandy!

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    David - I think your recent misty Scottish posts are really lovely!
    Carl - It's interesting that in the discussions over the Leica MM files it became clear that even when demosaicing isn't required LR4 seems to be able to add stair stepping aliasing to the files by unnecessary input sharpening
    Jono,

    Yes, Adobe also seems to be getting away from providing lens profiles, which the user could turn on/off as desired. Now they simply apply the lens corrections automatically on image import (along with whatever sharpening and noise reduction they deem necessary). I may go back to using Aperture as my primary image cataloging/processing tool.
    Carl
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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Taking a lunch break in my drive to the South Land ... Ah the joy of 3G service and an iPad! Die Gelbe Gefahr is a fantastic cruise missile: set it to 75 mph, have some nice music on the iPhone, keep the environment cool and comfy, and it just soaks up miles. Fuel consumption is nicely reduced from my day to day in town driving too. :-)

    Got the Leica on the floor next to me, but haven't been inspired to stop and make any photographs yet. I did snap a couple with the iPhone.

    But I digress.

    Lightroom's default sharpening (and all other parameter) settings are configurable. I don't get any sharpening induced stair stepping with my AA-less cameras (E-5, M9, GXR-M) because I configured the defaults to eliminate all input sharpening as a starting point with these cameras.

    The Fuji sensor presents different difficulties. To me, based on the info that Sandy has posted, I'm very unsure whether their fancy sensor has any real advantage over the long term.

    I do think there's a small market for specialized, higher quality raw conversion apps still, like RPP, but Lightroom is really darn good and takes the lion's share of the market now. Aperture is somewhat behind the bleeding edge and even I don't have any idea what the plan for its future might be. One thing I do know for sure is that I don't get along with its user interface design at all—I greatly prefer Lightroom's layout, tool design, and workflow. It just makes more sense to me.

    The one thing NOT to do, Sandy, if you do think about producing an OS X version of PhotoRAW is to not do what Nik did. Snapseed is brought as close to the entire iOS UI design directly into OS X and, frankly, it just doesn't work very well at all. On iOS it's brilliant, on OS X I can barely get it to work.

    Far as I understand it, Adobe only automatically applies lens corrections for cameras that the manufacturers' intent is to design the lens correction into the raw conversion as part of the lens design, like the Micro-FourThirds spec defines. Lens corrections are supplied in files for specific lenses and switched on and off by user for camera systems which do not include this type of design, such as Pentax, Nikon, Olympus, and Canon DSLRs. They also provide tools for these systems so that you can evaluate and install your own lens correction files.

    I don't know what Fuji or Sony do with their systems, but if the raw data contains lens correction information provided by the manufacturer, then Adobe will likely apply those corrections automatically. This has nothing to do with default input sharpening settings.

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    +1, Perhaps now that he has seen just how bad LR4.1 is he will reconsider and make us a Mac version of PhotoRaw.
    This makes me feel better about not being able to afford the X-Pro1. I really don't want to use anything other than Lightroom. Hopefully Adobe will get it together by the time a nice used X-Pro1 comes my way.

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Jono: Honestly the JPGs are so nice from this camera, that I only rarely have need of raw processing, and SilkyPix will do for that for now. Aperture support would be great though, its what I am happiest with from a user point of view. I'm the opposite to Godfrey in this, I don't like LR at all and find Aperture easy and sensible in layout. Each to his own!

    Thanks for nice comments on the misty photos, incidentally all out of camera JPG.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Capture One Pro is my poison for raw processing but so far no support for the XP1. I have used the C1 software for a long time now and I trust them so that when and if they ever support this camera, it will be good!

    In the mean time, ACR raw in CS6 does a good enough job for the odd time that I may b*lls up my exposure compensation and/or WB as the ooc JPEGS are so good from this little gem.
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    A question for the experts please.
    I hung about waiting for the RAW support like most, and hoped that I wasn't required to upgrade my LR3.6 to LR4 just to be able to open the Fuji files. Looks like I have no choice, sort of. In a round about way I tried the Adobe DNG converter, and converted the RAF files to DNG, so my older LR (and PhotoShop) could open and talk to the files. So far so good.
    Without looking too hard though I noticed more chromatic aberration than I was happy with, and for some reason I zoomed to 200% on one of the RAF-DNG files. Whoa, there are black dots everywhere, in a very tight and neat pattern, all over the image. All of the converted images have this. Why? So I opened the same image in SilkyPix, and converted it to a TIFF. Opened in LR (or CS4) the TIFF is as clean as, where the DNG is "dotted".
    Any ideas? I'm not blaming anyone, it will be pure operator error I am sure, but it would be nice to know what I did wrong.
    While I have avoided SilkyPix until now, I'm faced with a mandatory upgrade, railroaded is a better way of describing it, or stick with SilkyPix to convert. Right now the grumpy not happy with railroading side says I'll stick with SilkyPix.
    I've done my best to attach crops of both. Same base image, the first being from the DNG conversion, the second from the TIFF conversion.
    Gary
    Last edited by Gbealnz; 16th July 2013 at 16:44.

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    This apparently a known issue - some references to it here:

    Xpro 1 and Lightroom: SUPPORTED! - Fuji X Forum

    and a possible solution:

    http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php...post__p__51094

    Lee

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Did a test today that I have been meaning to try since I got the XP1.

    Comparison of the Fujifilm XPro 1 with 35/1.4 and the Ricoh GXR A12 Mount with CV 35/2.5:

    Both shot at ISO 200 at f5.6

    All 100% crops
    Top left: XP1 JPG
    Top Right: XP1 RAW (Silkypix)
    Bottom: Ricoh RAW (Aperture)



    Comments, more detail in the 12MP GXR.
    More noise in GXR.

    Moiré on the fence with XPro 1!
    Last edited by Braeside; 3rd June 2012 at 06:51. Reason: Corrected grammar
    David Anderson

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Quote Originally Posted by Gbealnz View Post
    A question for the experts please.
    I hung about waiting for the RAW support like most, and hoped that I wasn't required to upgrade my LR3.6 to LR4 just to be able to open the Fuji files.
    Gary
    There is such a HUGE difference in processing LR files from LR3 to LR4 that I would recommend upgrading period. It helps all cameras.

    Watch some videos on the develop module or at least download a trial version of LR4, take a file that you were happy with in LR3 and reprocess it with the new engine.

    Also, LR has dropped in price and the upgrade got cheaper as well.

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    I'll do that Terry, your last sentence especially appealed to the Scrooge in me.
    Gary

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Terry,
    where did you see the cost being reduced for the upgrade? I downloaded LR4, and the cost of the upgrade is listed as AU$98.75. Was it more expensive than this previously??
    As an aside, the "black-dot" effect is gone with LR4.
    Gary

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Dang - I think it is an Aussie thing. Pretty sure we are $79 in the US.

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Might be right, and with the Oz/US$ comparison similar, you'd think that it would be the same price. I'll enquire. And I'm not even in Oz either.
    Thanks again,
    Gary

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    It is £60.57 in the UK , that's about $93 US.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Yep, might just have to bite the bullet.
    Thanks all.
    Gary

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    I suggest reading this latest post on the subject in Sandy?s blog:
    ChromaSoft

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Just had an email from Andrey:

    There is new beta for RPP with new color profile for X-Pro1. You can publish this link if you want to and we need feedback. Color accuracy should be much improved.

    http://www.raw-photo-processor.com/R...4_1557Beta.zip

    Regards,
    Andrey

    I haven't tried it yet ...

    Lee
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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Thanks, I'll try it

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    ... don't forget if looking at images you have already processed RPP will remember your previous settings so you may need to set Profile back to Default as well as other parameters you had changed.

    Lee

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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Another beta from Andrey, I think this one using sample files kindly provided by Carl:

    From Andrey:

    The important part is that color is good, but the profile itself is very troubled in few key aspects.
    We've made a new one based on that one:
    http://www.raw-photo...64_1559Beta.zip

    This one is not as punchy and goes more along regular RPP lines. Compressed exposure 0.7 and Black Point 0.3 should give good start and more balanced image, film profiles like TC4 and K64 should also work well now.

    Regards,
    Andrey


    Lee
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    Re: Demosaicing the Fuji Xpro-1

    Latest production RPP has been released with X-Pro 1 support that we have been enjoying in beta:

    Version 4.6.0 released

    Lee

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