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Thread: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Now that C1Pro7 handles the X-Trans (and this processor was well reviewed recently by Sean Reid), surely some intrepid person will do this?

    I do not consider myself sufficiently well versed in capture one pro to do this kind of comparison but I would be very very interested in results.

    My 'seat-of-the-pants' comparison of hundreds of images from both cameras suggests that, at the pixel level, the DP2M still has the wood on the X-E1, but it will not make any difference to printed images, and the DP2M will still have that look that many of us like. Additionally, I was really happy with skin tones from the X-E1 when processed by capture one pro, and the results out of C1Pro7 with very little tweaking were definitely better than the jpegs SOOC—which up until then had wowed me, and many others!

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Now that C1Pro7 handles the X-Trans (and this processor was well reviewed recently by Sean Reid), surely some intrepid person will do this?

    I do not consider myself sufficiently well versed in capture one pro to do this kind of comparison but I would be very very interested in results.

    My 'seat-of-the-pants' comparison of hundreds of images from both cameras suggests that, at the pixel level, the DP2M still has the wood on the X-E1, but it will not make any difference to printed images, and the DP2M will still have that look that many of us like. Additionally, I was really happy with skin tones from the X-E1 when processed by capture one pro, and the results out of C1Pro7 with very little tweaking were definitely better than the jpegs SOOC—which up until then had wowed me, and many others!
    Hi Kit,

    I just picked up a Fuji X-E1 with 18-55 for travel/walkabout shooting. You can get close to the Sigma DP2M in terms of detail resolution IF you stay away from LR4.3 for conversion and use Sandy's AccuRaw app (still in beta 0.9.8, so not finalized yet). C1(7) is also OK, but can't quite match AccuRaw for detail. I set the Luma slider to zero in AccuRaw to max the detail and didn't have any significant artifact problems with my files. Just batch them all to tifs with AccuRaw and finish processing in LR.

    Here are links to a couple of 100% crop comparison images to look at.
    AccuRaw vs Lightroom
    Fuji X-E1 vs Sigma DP2M
    Carl
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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Carl: massive difference between AccuRaw and Lightroom! And that DP2M images is better, isn't it, than the X-E1 one.

    AccuRaw: what will be the cost of the full version; I could not see that. I will check the manual out now. Have you used earlier versions of AccuRaw? I will look for reviews of it too. Thanks sincerely for posting these images.

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Carl: massive difference between AccuRaw and Lightroom! And that DP2M images is better, isn't it, than the X-E1 one.

    AccuRaw: what will be the cost of the full version; I could not see that. I will check the manual out now. Have you used earlier versions of AccuRaw? I will look for reviews of it too. Thanks sincerely for posting these images.
    Yes, Lightroom (ACR) does not play well with the Fuji X-E1 raw files. It also has an annoying bug (LR and ACR) that crops the raws to 16:9 aspect ratio when imported. You can recover full size, but you need to go into the develop module to re-set the crop. I used Sandy's PhotoRaw app previously when I had my X-Pro1, but this is my first trial with AccuRaw.
    Carl
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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    The X-E1 image is taken with the zoom - couldn' that make a difference?
    maurice da silva solis

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Good to see you back in X-trans hand, Carl. I too think that AccuRaw could well be the answer and have also been testing it with excellent results. As to the title question of this thread, I tried to do exactly this last week but the X-Pro shots were so soft compared to the equivalent Merrill ones that I only concluded that I had missed focus (several times). I have just upgraded to the latest firmware so will be attempting to test again, next time with a tripod. I also really need to get some prints done and see how they compare.

    I think the Merrill is great but I still really want to be on good terms with my X-Pro as it is a great camera with great lenses.

    My comment on Carl's comparison - the Merrill shot does just look more 'real', more 'photographic' to me.

    Lee

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Hello Lee,

    I agree with you totally re. 'real', and 'photographic', and I love the DP2M, but it is a limited system in many ways. Personally, I was very pleased with what C1 pro does with the X-Trans sensor files. Not as good as AccuRaw at the pixel though, I agree. Luckily, I have not bought into LR; I use Aperture plus other converters at present.

    re. firmware: I updated my X-E1 body and the 35 and 60 lenses, and shot some images tonight; will process tomorrow and report back. I might even download the beta AccuRaw!

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Kit

    I do not have C1, though I did partake in the beta test and supplied sample images. I am an LR user. Had Accuraw not appeared on the scene I may well have purchased C1 but it's a lot of extra money (I know, people will argue if you can afford the X-Pro then just go with it!) and to be honest I just prefer LR for everything else. I was very pleasantly surprised by how Accuraw rendered the images and to my eyes was better than C1 at the pixel level.

    I do recommend that you contact Sandy for the Accuraw beta. What was becoming clear for me was that in spite of the DP2M being overall sharper, and in spite of the 'foliage' issues with the X-Pro, in general my X-Pro images seemed better in most ways than any of my previous cameras, including the X100. That may well be a sweeping statement, and I got my X100 out the other day for a play, boy what a gorgeous camera that is !

    I guess we are lucky to have so many good choices now ...

    Lee

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Quote Originally Posted by archiM44 View Post
    The X-E1 image is taken with the zoom - couldn' that make a difference?
    Possibly, there could be some lens factor involved. The DP2M has an excellent 30mm lens and I had nothing else comparable near that focal length. However, the Fujinon 18-55 is also a very good lens. Has anyone compared it with the Fujinon 35, which I no longer own?
    Carl
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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Good to see you back in X-trans hand, Carl. I too think that AccuRaw could well be the answer and have also been testing it with excellent results. As to the title question of this thread, I tried to do exactly this last week but the X-Pro shots were so soft compared to the equivalent Merrill ones that I only concluded that I had missed focus (several times). I have just upgraded to the latest firmware so will be attempting to test again, next time with a tripod. I also really need to get some prints done and see how they compare.

    I think the Merrill is great but I still really want to be on good terms with my X-Pro as it is a great camera with great lenses.

    My comment on Carl's comparison - the Merrill shot does just look more 'real', more 'photographic' to me.

    Lee
    Thanks Lee. The X-E1 is just the right size for my little travel bag and so far I really like the image quality. A good companion to the DP2M and Leica M9. I'll look forward to seeing your comparison shots.
    Carl
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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    I have now shot both of these (a DP2M and an X-E1) for about 6 weeks. Granted, I have never taken them both out at the same time, and I think that speaks to their strengths and weaknesses. Besides the detail and ISO differences, I think color is the biggest difference between the sensors. Fuji's color palette is just so... different than the Foveon sensor. In film terms, it's like comparing Astia to Velvia 100F.

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    corposant: that captures the difference perfectly, I feel, even though it's been a LONG time since I shot film (I was a 'Chome 64 kind of guy).

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    Just saw this comparison.

    I think the resolution difference is not as high as you might think from this comparison. The fuji shot is considerably undersharpened compared to the DP2m. I have only paint.net on the laptop I'm using, but by sharpening the left image amount 4 using paint.net's crude sharpening tool, most of the gross differences disappear. DP2m definitely has more resolution but not by a huge amount.

    The bigger problem for me is that strange look of the fuji file. It reminds me of looking at images from my old Kodak. There are patches of detail that have a "water colour" look and there weird artefacts everywhere. It looks a bit like (but not quite like) maze demosaic artefacts bursting out all over. There are these strange short white lines like a faint canvas pattern.

    I'm not sure what is causing all this (some mix of luminance aliasing, noise reduction, demosaic errors would be my guess) but at pixel level a bit of sharpening really exposes a lot of artefacts.

    I'm really not sure the xtrans array is such a good idea looking at this. I wonder if they might not have been better off with a conventional approach. This is definitely work in progress at the moment. I was getting keen on this camera but seeing this has put me off a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Hello Lee,

    I agree with you totally re. 'real', and 'photographic', and I love the DP2M, but it is a limited system in many ways. Personally, I was very pleased with what C1 pro does with the X-Trans sensor files. Not as good as AccuRaw at the pixel though, I agree. Luckily, I have not bought into LR; I use Aperture plus other converters at present.

    re. firmware: I updated my X-E1 body and the 35 and 60 lenses, and shot some images tonight; will process tomorrow and report back. I might even download the beta AccuRaw!

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    Re: has anyone done a side-by-side comparison DP2 M and X-Trans?

    I've just been looking at the Xpro 1 samples on Imaging resource (jpegs). They don't seem to show this artefacted look. Maybe it's the raw converter at fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by davemillier View Post
    Just saw this comparison.

    I think the resolution difference is not as high as you might think from this comparison. The fuji shot is considerably undersharpened compared to the DP2m. I have only paint.net on the laptop I'm using, but by sharpening the left image amount 4 using paint.net's crude sharpening tool, most of the gross differences disappear. DP2m definitely has more resolution but not by a huge amount.

    The bigger problem for me is that strange look of the fuji file. It reminds me of looking at images from my old Kodak. There are patches of detail that have a "water colour" look and there weird artefacts everywhere. It looks a bit like (but not quite like) maze demosaic artefacts bursting out all over. There are these strange short white lines like a faint canvas pattern.

    I'm not sure what is causing all this (some mix of luminance aliasing, noise reduction, demosaic errors would be my guess) but at pixel level a bit of sharpening really exposes a lot of artefacts.

    I'm really not sure the xtrans array is such a good idea looking at this. I wonder if they might not have been better off with a conventional approach. This is definitely work in progress at the moment. I was getting keen on this camera but seeing this has put me off a bit.

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