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Thread: Fuji XM-1

  1. #1
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    Smile Fuji XM-1

    Now, all the leaks are in place regarding this and the new lenses.

    Looks like this is the camera (and the 27/2.8) that will get me in to the Fuji X system.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Help me understand why such a camera and lenses?

    Disappointing move from Fuji to low quality and cheap

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    I don't like they took away the aperture rings on those lenses, but for street life this camera looks great. It also in a way is a "Pen-5 killer" model (not quite, but some).

    - Raist

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Pretty clear what their strategy is here, and it's probably a good one. Considering the rumors say its the same sensor, it's a bit of a stretch to conclude that the quality is lower. It's just a way for them compete in a different price point with a similarly featured camera, with a much better sensor and IQ.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Help me understand why such a camera and lenses?

    Disappointing move from Fuji to low quality and cheap

    I can only tell why I am interested-

    1. Tilt LCD.
    2. Size.
    3. Price.

    For me it is similar to NEX-5N in many ways but with a X-trans sensor. Size does matter for some applications.

    If the XM-1 lasts for 1 year then it is a winner.

    I also think that it is a good move on Fuji's part.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I can only tell why I am interested-

    1. Tilt LCD.
    2. Size.
    3. Price.

    For me it is similar to NEX-5N in many ways but with a X-trans sensor. Size does matter for some applications.

    If the XM-1 lasts for 1 year then it is a winner.

    I also think that it is a good move on Fuji's part.
    Hope you really will like it!

    I would have loved to see an XPro2 instead with much improved AF!

    Peter

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    I'm sure this will happen too, just a matter of time.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Help me understand why such a camera and lenses?

    Disappointing move from Fuji to low quality and cheap
    \

    Yeah, it is so disappointing when a company releases a camera that will allow them to make more money in a different segment.

    You're disappointed because they didn't release your dream camera?

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Hope you really will like it!

    I would have loved to see an XPro2 instead with much improved AF!

    Peter
    What makes you think the XPro2 is not coming? Moreover the X-M1 does have improved AF also.

    I think the X-M1 will sell like hotcakes. Small, fast and the quality of Xtrans + system of lenses with it. It looks like a street life camera winner.

    - Raist

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    What makes you think the XPro2 is not coming? Moreover the X-M1 does have improved AF also.

    - Raist
    Maybe the XPro2 could have come earlier without the XM1 ....

    I overlooked that the XM1 has already improved AF, basically I concluded it has the old AF from XE1 or XPro1, as it shares their sensor from what I read and not the advanced sensor of the X100s.

    Pointers would be appreciated

    Thanks, Peter

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Fuji just completes it's X-System with the XM1 in the lower segmet while keeping the IQ and manual control at a high level. Very smart.

    Fuji attracts with this new potential costumers, who are not willing to spend more money for a camera and who do not need a viewfinder.

    At least 30% of them will sooner or later upgrade within the X-System. This is a cash cow longterm strategy.

    For sure there will be within the next 6-8 montsh a X-Pro2 and probably also a XE-2. Maybe even another X-camera (X30 with APS-C sensor?)

    Look what Nikon, Canon etc. are offering. Just because there is a Nikon J1, they did not forget to release a Nikon D7100 or D800

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Fuji just completes it's X-System with the XM1 in the lower segmet while keeping the IQ and manual control at a high level. Very smart.

    Fuji attracts with this new potential costumers, who are not willing to spend more money for a camera and who do not need a viewfinder.

    At least 30% of them will sooner or later upgrade within the X-System. This is a cash cow longterm strategy.

    For sure there will be within the next 6-8 montsh a X-Pro2 and probably also a XE-2. Maybe even another X-camera (X30 with APS-C sensor?)

    Look what Nikon, Canon etc. are offering. Just because there is a Nikon J1, they did not forget to release a Nikon D7100 or D800
    Smart for Fuji, but a camera without any option for an EVF is nothing for me. Otherwise I would sure consider it as a pure P&S.

    Yes it is smart move from Fuji, but the difference to CaNikon is that these have much bigger development teams for their cameras, so spending time on a new version or product line is less affecting their core developments. I fear that Fuji's camera division is more comparable to Leica size wise, so any distraction developing another product is really slowing down their high end pro line.

    I really hope the XPro2 will come in 6 months and they better have a much improved sensor (no longer just 16MP) with integrated PDAF + CDAF and much faster AF. Plus a much higher resolution EVF (at least 2.4MP). Also I would like to see an upgraded lens lineup as for example the 1.4/35 which is optically outstanding but mechanically and AF wise rather sucks.

    So obviously lot to do in the Pro area of their X line and I hope they stop now trying to expand marketing wise their whole camera lineup and rather concentrate on Pro.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Possibly, well actually is, selfish, but I'm sort of hoping that the XM-1's release will drive down the price of the X20
    david

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Maybe the XPro2 could have come earlier without the XM1 ....

    I overlooked that the XM1 has already improved AF, basically I concluded it has the old AF from XE1 or XPro1, as it shares their sensor from what I read and not the advanced sensor of the X100s.

    Pointers would be appreciated

    Thanks, Peter
    Read the dpreview review. It does have the same sensor, of the X-E1/X-Pro1, but has the new processor of the X100s.

    Regardless, all in due time. Fuji is coming out with an end of July firmware upgrade to speed up the AF of the X-E1/Pro1 *and* add focus peaking.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Fuji just completes it's X-System with the XM1 in the lower segmet while keeping the IQ and manual control at a high level. Very smart.
    Just a note: the IQ of the XM1 should be the same as the X-E1/Xpro1.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Smart for Fuji, but a camera without any option for an EVF is nothing for me. Otherwise I would sure consider it as a pure P&S.
    That basically means the X-M1 is not for you. Why is it such a bad thing?

    Yes it is smart move from Fuji, but the difference to CaNikon is that these have much bigger development teams for their cameras, so spending time on a new version or product line is less affecting their core developments. I fear that Fuji's camera division is more comparable to Leica size wise, so any distraction developing another product is really slowing down their high end pro line.
    Remember: Fuji also needs to make a profit or no more camera division. Besides that, I still think the X-M1 works great as a street photographer's camera.

    I really hope the XPro2 will come in 6 months and they better have a much improved sensor (no longer just 16MP) with integrated PDAF + CDAF and much faster AF. Plus a much higher resolution EVF (at least 2.4MP). Also I would like to see an upgraded lens lineup as for example the 1.4/35 which is optically outstanding but mechanically and AF wise rather sucks.

    So obviously lot to do in the Pro area of their X line and I hope they stop now trying to expand marketing wise their whole camera lineup and rather concentrate on Pro.
    The cameras you mention are in the pipeline. How often do they need to upgrade theirs? It's hardly a necessity like that.

    - Ricardo

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    The cameras you mention are in the pipeline. How often do they need to upgrade theirs? It's hardly a necessity like that.

    - Ricardo
    Ricardo,

    I hardly can believe that the new July 2013 FW will improve AF significantly. This is why I am looking for at least an XPro1s, same improvements as the X100s showed, or of course even better an XPro2 adding also further improvements I mentioned in my previous post.

    We cannot to anything about product/marketing strategy of specific companies except everyone of us can decide how long to stay patient or jump ships.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    >I hardly can believe that the new July 2013 FW will improve AF significantly.

    I don't think either, the motors are are quite slow for some lenses. I use the X-P1 when I don't need fast AF (often actually).
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >I hardly can believe that the new July 2013 FW will improve AF significantly.

    I don't think either, the motors are are quite slow for some lenses. I use the X-P1 when I don't need fast AF (often actually).
    Agree, I also like the XP1 very much!

    But as mentioned AF is one of the key issues this camera has for me. If dreaming is allowed, I would like AF speed from the OMG/EP5 and accuracy of Nikon D800. Well one at least can dream.

    But honestly, I do think that Fuji also needs to improve some lenses (actually means new lenses as this means new AF motors foe example) to really get there.

    And this is my whole concern that I would have liked to see this happening instead of trying to see more mass market satisfaction - aka XM1.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Let's step back from our own individual wish list and look more objective into it.

    Everything that gives Fuji more cash is good. The more cash Fuji has, the more they can afford to put into R&D for the high segment, which has at the moment surely not a great margin, if you consider the quantiities they are able to sell compared with development costs of the X-Pro.

    So the more cheaper models they sell, the more money is left for further developmenets of a X-Pro2 and x-Pro3.

    Secondly, if you look at all the different models, each one introduce new features and improvements.

    The XM1 has now a tilt screen. It is very likely, that the future X-Pro2 will have that too. So they test new features with all models and as soon as they are good enough in it, they will offer this in other models too.

    The X-Pro will obvioulsy have at least an EVF as good as in the X-E1/X100s. Maybe even better. We will see.

    The AF of the X-Pro1 will probbay only improve slightly with a FW update. Similar step as with the X100. But the X-Pro2 will surely have a bigger step in the right direction regarding AF speed. I do believe the x-Pro2 will be significant better than the X100s for AF speed. There is still enough time to develop new AF-ides for Fuji in that model.

    So try to be patient. You can not make significant steps on a weekly basis. Either you want to have a real improvement, or you want to have as fast as possible a new model-number. But both at the same time is not possible if you are aware how much time R&D needs in advance before something new is released for production.

    None of the efforts of Fuji with smaller models is wasted. It is not an either/or. It is a learning curve for them with each new feature in each new model, of which every model afterwards will benefit from.
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    @4711

    I am surprised how well you are informed about Fuji internals - are you working for them

    What you say is all clear and no further discussion necessary.

    Fact is if someone has requirements now and a product cannot fulfill, then to bad, this one will leave to another product and even jump ships.

    No need for more discussion from my side!

    Thanks

    Peter

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    I can`t say I am disappointed but I was expecting more. I was watching the review and it seems like a nice product with great design especially the screen but other than that I dont se anything special that would make me buy it.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    So, don't buy it and wait for what you want/need. My XP1 is what I need now.

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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    As an early buyer into the XP1, I was on the verge of selling it but the XM-1 has changed my mind. Definitely more the size I'm looking for and the tilt screen is a big plus. Wish there was a VF option but who knows what coming except Fuji.
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Ricardo,

    I hardly can believe that the new July 2013 FW will improve AF significantly. This is why I am looking for at least an XPro1s, same improvements as the X100s showed, or of course even better an XPro2 adding also further improvements I mentioned in my previous post.
    I am not expecting a major improvement either but an improvement over what they have isn't all that bad- at least with the standard zoom.

    We cannot to anything about product/marketing strategy of specific companies except everyone of us can decide how long to stay patient or jump ships.
    Then jump! The xpro1 isn't that old and still works great. If its not a match for you then jump. A company can have many reasons to not come up with it yet. You dont want to wait? Then jump.

    I am only looking at the xm1 mainly for the size. I have wondered at times If I should just keep using my still haven't put for sale k-5 and Q only for my love of the Q. I like the x-e1 a lot and "got it" pretty quick though I like even smaller. Even if the xm1 improved on nothing else I like still consider it for me.

    Ricardo
    Last edited by raist3d; 30th June 2013 at 21:51.
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    Re: Fuji XM-1

    Well looks like the AF has improved significantly for the XF35 with the new firmware upgrade for X-E1/XPro1. The kit zoom the improvement is milder but that lens was already reasonably fast. But there's still an improvement.

    Also focus lock rates and accuracy. Check it out!

    - Ricardo

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