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Thread: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    But this is what I'm seeing Carl - not that bad perhaps, but it's the same thing. Horrid - and in my mind it makes it unusable.

    I find it incomprehensible that everyone seems to think the files are so great. Personally, I'm not sure where to go next!
    Gosh, it's been 2 years since the XPro 1, and the same issue exists, albeit slightly tamed. As great as the XT-1 seems in all other regards, IQ issues seem unresolved.... Jono, how do you find the files, in comparison to the A7?

    Ultimately, the XTrans 2 sensor doesn't appear to be much of an evolution from the original x-trans, save the addition of phase detect pixels. At times, the IQ is amazing. At other times, smudge factory....the inconsistency killed my desire to shoot with the camera...and I gave it a year of regular use...love what Fuji does in evolving their cameras, but the IQ issue is a problem....

    In my mind, the XPro-1 was always best with it's own JPEG engine, but that really limites processing and creativity offered by RAW files. Now if Fuji offered out of camera TIFF's, using whatever engine that drives the JPEG production, or at least shared what RAW conversion they have with Adobe or Apple, then we'd have something...

    Sadly for me, IQ is king, and these issues essentially obviate much of the greatness that exists in the XT-1....I have been sorely tempted to hit the "Buy" button, but I know this IQ, and I took my departure over a year ago, thanks to the smudge/water color effects. I had hoped that a year had resolved issues, but it doesn't seem that it has...bummer...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post

    Sadly for me, IQ is king, and these issues essentially obviate much of the greatness that exists in the XT-1....I have been sorely tempted to hit the "Buy" button, but I know this IQ, and I took my departure over a year ago, thanks to the smudge/water color effects. I had hoped that a year had resolved issues, but it doesn't seem that it has...bummer...
    I understand... but I guess I see more value, even with the faults. You know how and what I shoot and these Fuji cameras work for me. My X-T1 arrives tomorrow morning just in time for my annual trek to New Orleans for Mardi Gras. Perfect timing to put it through a few hoops and tests in the real world. If it doesn't perform.. it goes back.. but based on the work I have seen from a number of pros who had access to it, I don't anticipate a return on this one.

    I have the X-Pro 1 and the E-X2 but the X-T1 will be a bit of a game changer for me with the new EVF, fps and tracking.

    As the Rolling Stones songs goes...

    "You can't always get what you want
    But if you try sometimes well you might find
    You get what you need."
    Jim Radcliffe
    www.boxedlight.com
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm sure it's just the EXIF header info. They'll add the X-T1 soon enough I'm sure. As an alternative you could try one of the EXIF header modification apps and relabel the X-T1 files with an X-E2 header. That's what the Canon and Nikon folks often do until the converters catch up.
    Graham, do you have a windows app in mind for this?

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Gosh, it's been 2 years since the XPro 1, and the same issue exists, albeit slightly tamed. As great as the XT-1 seems in all other regards, IQ issues seem unresolved.... Jono, how do you find the files, in comparison to the A7?

    Ultimately, the XTrans 2 sensor doesn't appear to be much of an evolution from the original x-trans, save the addition of phase detect pixels. At times, the IQ is amazing. At other times, smudge factory....the inconsistency killed my desire to shoot with the camera...and I gave it a year of regular use...love what Fuji does in evolving their cameras, but the IQ issue is a problem....

    In my mind, the XPro-1 was always best with it's own JPEG engine, but that really limites processing and creativity offered by RAW files. Now if Fuji offered out of camera TIFF's, using whatever engine that drives the JPEG production, or at least shared what RAW conversion they have with Adobe or Apple, then we'd have something...

    Sadly for me, IQ is king, and these issues essentially obviate much of the greatness that exists in the XT-1....I have been sorely tempted to hit the "Buy" button, but I know this IQ, and I took my departure over a year ago, thanks to the smudge/water color effects. I had hoped that a year had resolved issues, but it doesn't seem that it has...bummer...
    Doesn't this seem a bit premature based on two images from Jono and in advance of full raw support across the board? It kind of smacks of finding flaws that you wanted to find ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    I don't want to create a flame war but;
    what the hell Ashwin?

    I have been shooting cams to 30 years, professionally for 20.
    Until just recently my go to cam was a Cambo RS with a combo of Aptus 65s and Credo back. I spent most of 2013 in a hospital and wheelchair and now have a restriction on how much weight I can carry for the next 5 years. This forced me to make a change to continue to do what I love.

    I researched the crap out of what was available and made an informed decision to use the Fuji mirroless; the deciding factor was THE IMAGE QUALITY AVAILABLE ON THE X-TRANS SENSOR.

    I have used the highest resolution backs with the (arguably) best lens (large format technical). I didn't make the choice for the Fuji as some hipster wanabe looking for a camera to match my goatee.

    I am highly qualified to make educated opinions on image quality.

    I am communicating on this thread to help Jono with an issue she found on her new camera.

    I didn't realize that suddenly made this a forum for non Fuji users to bash what they haven't used recently or perhaps don't understand how to get the best from.
    I get tired of reading people rehashing negatives that have nothing to do with this wonderful camera. Try it in Capture One, learn to work the raws; then make an informed comment.

    On the subject ACTUALLY POSTED;
    I did a couple more experiments and found;
    Green smear seems to sometimes appear in jpgs with the 18-55 at 18 with the automatic barrel distortion being applied by the camera.
    A jpg of the same scene with the correction turned off in camera resulted in much cleaner image across the entire shot.
    The same scene in Photo Ninja with barrel correction resulted in distortion correction without smearing.

    This is all on an x-e2 as I am waiting for delivery on my x-t1.

    As it uses the same sensor; I am assuming that a similar result may occur on the x-t1.

    I hope some of this information helps Jono.

    Jon

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post
    I understand... but I guess I see more value, even with the faults. You know how and what I shoot and these Fuji cameras work for me.
    Truth is you and Ashwin do not share the same proclivities in how you shoot...
    the drawbacks that he mentions are rarely encountered by you as you focus on those very intimate aspects of photography and do not usually do the large grand landscape....if you do it is usually centered on a center point of interest and as such allows a bit of room to let exposure and sharpness rolloff without objection.

    And it works for you ... fabulously!

    The rest of us will struggle with the wonky colors, strange artifacts, and weird sharpness issues in the XTrans...or will move to a different sensor until Fuji resolves this....

    All of this angst about small sensor cameras has me looking again at MFDB and larger cameras...I would rather schlep a bit more weight than spend my time trying to resolve errors at capture....

    A shame really as the X100 was a nice camera...the X-T1 looks to be a wonderful ride if they would just address the IQ issue for us grand landscape folks. Apologize for the rant....just too much froth over the new new thing....

    Looking forward to seeing the new NO posts on Boxed Light.....always a treat.

    Regards,

    Bob
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    I don't want to create a flame war but;
    what the hell Ashwin?
    the deciding factor was THE IMAGE QUALITY AVAILABLE ON THE X-TRANS SENSOR.

    I am communicating on this thread to help Jono with an issue she found on her new camera.

    I didn't realize that suddenly made this a forum for non Fuji users to bash what they haven't used recently or perhaps don't understand how to get the best from.
    I get tired of reading people rehashing negatives that have nothing to do with this wonderful camera. Try it in Capture One, learn to work the raws; then make an informed comment.



    Jon
    Jon,

    Not that you started a flame war but you seem to be relatively new here so a few facts....

    Jono is a guy...great guy at that. He seems to find the most cogent problems with any camera out there and can quickly correct it or dismiss the camera and move on...we have been following his posts since the photo.net days....Nikon D2s at that point.

    Ashwin has extensive knowledge and use of most every camera out there...he has used the Fuji...written about it and made a personal decision to move on...as have some of the rest of us...all hoping these issues would be solved...and I for one will state that it looks like they have not been completely corrected.

    You like the Fuji...great enjoy it.

    The key with GETDPI is to realize that no one else really cares if you like the Holga best...they expect you to conduct your posts as a friend, a gentleman, and a person of integrity and one who can take someone else's viewpoint not as an attack on your personhood but as their own view....nothing else.

    So when Ashwin says it don't look good...most of us listen as he has a long track record of calling it as he sees it and his calling it usually is pretty persuasive.

    Me.... I have been doing this since 1970 ... 35, MF, LF ... Imacon scanning, recent Phase P20, H3d II 39, Leica S2-P...and a short term affair with the original X100....keep looking at Fuji hoping to return.

    Truth is I normally shoot landscapes in the late fall, winter and very early spring as I hate greens...yellows not far behind. Rather see a tree without leaves than a green one. So the green speckles are particularly a struggle for my way of viewing landscapes and while Astia in 4x5 and 8x10 worked...Velvia never did...probably why I preferred Acros and APX 25....

    But I digress....

    Jono has called out a problem that may be a deal breaker for a lot of folks....hope it can be resolved but I assume this can be done without disparaging others as we resolve it.

    Regards,

    Bob
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Doesn't this seem a bit premature based on two images from Jono and in advance of full raw support across the board? It kind of smacks of finding flaws that you wanted to find ...


    Sure, I guess so..Trust me, I was just about to hit "Buy" today after seeing the Chris Nichols and Kai Man Wong videos and hearing many many folks heap praise. I actually really liked my year with the XPro-1. I found Fuji colors to be supreme, but the camera's AF was laggy at the time, and I was never satisfied with the smearing that I saw in LR conversions.

    I am totally a LR guy, and I am hearing many of the same comments that I saw nearly 2 years ago, when the camera was fresh and full of promise.

    I suspect that there's just something about X-trans that folks haven't figured out yet (at Adobe/Apple) yet. Clearly, Fuji's JPEG engine can mostly get it right, and so that leaves me puzzled...why other's can't do it, or why Fuji hasn't provided the keys to that kingdom. They have responded in many other ways, and have provided a true shooter's camera in the XT-1....

    All of that said, I am plenty happy at the moment with the A7, which also has its flaws....

    We are all in search of a perfect camera....Fuji is close, but for me, until the IQ issues are tidied up in LR, I would struggle with it....plus, I really trust what Jono sees in things, as we see much in the same light....
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    By the way, I reserve the right to take it all back and join the crowd LOL...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Jon,

    Not that you started a flame war but you seem to be relatively new here so a few facts....

    Ashwin has extensive knowledge and use of most every camera out there...he has used the Fuji...written about it and made a personal decision to move on...as have some of the rest of us...all hoping these issues would be solved...and I for one will state that it looks like they have not been completely corrected.

    You like the Fuji...great enjoy it.

    The key with GETDPI is to realize that no one else really cares if you like the Holga best...they expect you to conduct your posts as a friend, a gentleman, and a person of integrity and one who can take someone else's viewpoint not as an attack on your personhood but as their own view....nothing else.

    So when Ashwin says it don't look good...most of us listen as he has a long track record of calling it as he sees it and his calling it usually is pretty persuasive.





    Regards,

    Bob
    Thanks for the support, Bob. You have represented my intent better than I could so do. I think GetDPI offers a safe environment by which to share and debate opinions. I am not trying to flame anyone, by any means, and I only state my opinion, based on the comments posted and my own year long experience with the XPro-1 (and much shorter time with the XE-1)....both which are reported to have a sensor that's very close to the present X-Trans II, save the phase detect sensors embedded in the chip and whatever software magic is going on behind the scenes......

    Truth be told, I am a HUGE Fuji fan. They actually listen to us bozos here in forum land, and they tweak their cameras, even ones no longer in production, to try to make it right. Each firmware seems to bring improvements, and no other camera maker does it with such alpomb....I actually really love the colors coming from the X-Trans, along with the detail thanks to the lack of an AA filter. Their array is really innovative, as it allows both a lack of AA filter and minimal moire, due to the design of the sensors color pixel array...Really cool...What I find...um...not cool, is the water color effects. I remember stumbiling accross those when the first LR RAW profile came out, and I was somewhat jarred. I ended up mainly shooting my X-Pro1 as a JPEG camera, which is very atypical for me. I edit heavily, and prefer using RAW files to explore my creative interests in more depth. If, from what I have read, the XT-1 produces heavy reds and detail smearing, then this is an issue. It was an issue. i was hoping it would no longer be...and that the only compromise was a slightly smaller sensor, with so much more to gain...but like I said, pixel peeping IQ matters to me...for better or for worse. Just my $0.02. Don't mean to flame at all, so please don't take it that way...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    I don't want to create a flame war but;
    what the hell Ashwin?

    I have been shooting cams to 30 years, professionally for 20.
    Until just recently my go to cam was a Cambo RS with a combo of Aptus 65s and Credo back. I spent most of 2013 in a hospital and wheelchair and now have a restriction on how much weight I can carry for the next 5 years. This forced me to make a change to continue to do what I love.

    I researched the crap out of what was available and made an informed decision to use the Fuji mirroless; the deciding factor was THE IMAGE QUALITY AVAILABLE ON THE X-TRANS SENSOR.

    I have used the highest resolution backs with the (arguably) best lens (large format technical). I didn't make the choice for the Fuji as some hipster wanabe looking for a camera to match my goatee.

    I am highly qualified to make educated opinions on image quality.

    I am communicating on this thread to help Jono with an issue she found on her new camera.

    I didn't realize that suddenly made this a forum for non Fuji users to bash what they haven't used recently or perhaps don't understand how to get the best from.
    I get tired of reading people rehashing negatives that have nothing to do with this wonderful camera. Try it in Capture One, learn to work the raws; then make an informed comment.

    On the subject ACTUALLY POSTED;
    I did a couple more experiments and found;
    Green smear seems to sometimes appear in jpgs with the 18-55 at 18 with the automatic barrel distortion being applied by the camera.
    A jpg of the same scene with the correction turned off in camera resulted in much cleaner image across the entire shot.
    The same scene in Photo Ninja with barrel correction resulted in distortion correction without smearing.

    This is all on an x-e2 as I am waiting for delivery on my x-t1.

    As it uses the same sensor; I am assuming that a similar result may occur on the x-t1.

    I hope some of this information helps Jono.

    Jon
    See my post, above...a couple of issues, though

    1. Jono is a male...just figured I'd clear that up off the bat
    2. You have nice gear.
    3. We are all entitled to opinions. Yours and mine are equally valid...we just see value in different aspects of the same issue.
    4. Sorry to hear about your health issues. I am glad that you are back on your feet, and have adjusted to maintain the passion that you love...a passion that I share. As a health care provider caring for injured athletes trying to get back to their activity, I very much appreciate your quandry and the change that you made.
    5. I am not bashing...just expressing my own opinion, based on extensive experience with the X-system, which I do really love... Smashing lenses, incredible color, detailed files (except where there's smearing in LR at least...I have a totally LR work flow, so using another converter wouldn't work for me...my own limitation). Capture one is not an option given my present work flow and commitment to LR5 (my library has far too many images to be proud of lol)
    6. I am very informed....but I am entitled to my opinion...and that's really all it is...

    Okay, I'll pipe down now, but you managed to get my attention
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post

    As the Rolling Stones songs goes...

    "You can't always get what you want
    But if you try sometimes well you might find
    You get what you need."
    Well stated, Jim. And truth be told, you make magic with anything you shoot...Leica, Canon, Pentax, Fuji, I doesn't matter....Are you still using the Pentax K5II (or K3, for that matter)? Lovely that we have so many options from which to choose and by which to adapt to...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    I guess if you want to call when I first joined dpi in 2011 new; so be it.
    I am definitely new to the Fuji forum.
    The only area I was in for most of my time was the Dante's.

    This was not an attack on Ashwin, I don't know you or your work.
    I am informed you are very knowledgeable and that's great.
    The original post just appeared to be piling on when Jono reported an issue.

    docmore; I will be shooting more greens when greens finally reappear from under the damn snow. Now that I know Jono is a guy, great. I apologize for the inadvertent gender swap.

    I don't usually post unless there is something I can add or help with.

    I am not in the habit of bashing gear unless it cost me money in the past (waiting for the IQ backs to finally activate the usb 3 function. never arrived in time for me dang it.)

    I have tried every bloody raw processor on the planet tying to get the x-trans images the way I want and finally have them printing large and beautiful (to me) with capture one and photo ninja.

    Heaven knows what I saved in cash from Digital Back to Mirrorless more than covers the cost of software but for goodness sake, it would be nice to have cross the board great results with all the raw processors.

    So just relax everyone, if you feel it is necessary to chastise me, have a great time.
    Don't condescend to me. Don't write me off as a newbie. I may mistake your gender. I may take umbrage with a comment. I will always try to help if it is within my skill set. I will not call you names (sticks and stone and all that.). I will continue to enjoy GetDPI.

    And if anyone else has an x-t1;
    if you have time for a couple of quick shots, I would be interested if the jpgs follow the same pattern I found with the x-e2 and the effect on image quality in green foliage with the lens correction turned on for in camera processing.

    Regards,
    Jon

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Nobody commented on the samples I posted with the X-T1.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Truth is you and Ashwin do not share the same proclivities in how you shoot...
    the drawbacks that he mentions are rarely encountered by you as you focus on those very intimate aspects of photography and do not usually do the large grand landscape....if you do it is usually centered on a center point of interest and as such allows a bit of room to let exposure and sharpness rolloff without objection.

    And it works for you ... fabulously!

    All of this angst about small sensor cameras has me looking again at MFDB and larger cameras...I would rather schlep a bit more weight than spend my time trying to resolve errors at capture....

    A shame really as the X100 was a nice camera...the X-T1 looks to be a wonderful ride if they would just address the IQ issue for us grand landscape folks. Apologize for the rant....just too much froth over the new new thing....

    Looking forward to seeing the new NO posts on Boxed Light.....always a treat.

    Regards,

    Bob
    Thanks, Bob... You are correct. Ashwin and I do shoot differently. I was not suggesting that the Fujis are not without a few warts. It seems they do just keep getting better and better and the lens lineup continues to grow.. and bang for the buck.. they are hard to beat.

    It seems there are always two camps that form when a new camera (of any brand) comes out. Those that like it and those that don't... maybe a third camp that just likes to find fault with every little thing.. button size, ergonomics, AF speed, noise.. you name it.. there is always someone willing to make and issue over something they deem less than perfect.. and so it will always be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Well stated, Jim. And truth be told, you make magic with anything you shoot...Leica, Canon, Pentax, Fuji, I doesn't matter....Are you still using the Pentax K5II (or K3, for that matter)? Lovely that we have so many options from which to choose and by which to adapt to...
    Thanks, Ashwin... the lyrics ring true for me with the Fujis.. they are not perfect but damn they are very good.

    I bought the K3 and returned it within 24 hours. I essentially would have been paying major bucks for what (in my opinion) was a minor upgrade of the K5 IIs I already owned. I was disappointed with high ISO performance and noise.. seems that is what you get when you cram more MP in the same space.

    Yes, I still use the K5 IIs.. very good camera on so many levels.. it will also make the trip to New Orleans with me... but the X-T1 will be the primary on this trip. The Pentax is just for backup, should I need it for any reason.

    Yes, we have so many choices and I often wonder why some people are so dogmatic about their choice of cameras. I have never pointed out perceived weaknesses or faults in chosen brands of others. Really, what's the point? Live and let live. We are all kindred spirits in this world of photography. Why some insist on fighting/bitching/arguing over which is a better camera always amazes me.

    As for Jono.. maybe a little more time and a better lens will have a calming effect on him. If he returns it, then good for him. No use in using a camera you are not comfortable with. He'll sort it out one way or the other.

    I am not saying there are not issues with the X-Trans sensor but those issues also seem to be amplified by the companies that produce the RAW support software.. they just haven't yet gotten it right.. so I would not place all the blame on Fuji.

    The X-Pro 1 and E-X2 have been a lot of fun and their output often stunning with very little required in post.. and I'm just talking about the JPGs. In a few hours I will have my third Fuji in my hands.. Bad Jim.. bad boy... but I think the third time will be the charm.. as they say. What each of the other cameras lacked all seems to be in place with the X-T1.. at least for me.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Hi there
    Thanks for your efforts Jon, as Bob says, I've been around the block a bit and everyone else for chipping in. Graham, quite right, no time to give in.
    I've not given up yet, although I will say, in the final analysis I won't be changing raw processor for a camera (despite being experienced with both LR and C1 Aperture is my poison).,
    So in the final analysis it seems to hinge on how Aperture handles the camera.

    In the meantime it seems to me I have two overlapping issues
    1. Lens corrections creating smearing (especially using DNGs created from Adobe DNG converter in Lightroom.
    2. Some residual strangeness in greens
    Perhaps also 3 some OSS/lens issues.

    I'm thinking these two/three issues are combining to exacerbate the situation. So I'll do some more testing when it stops raining

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Btw, if anyone comes across the perfect camera please let us all know

    Still looking ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Btw, if anyone comes across the perfect camera please let us all know

    Still looking ...
    Oh boy, would this be boring.....
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Also in fairness to folks trying the Fuji, if you're an Aperture, LR or other user, it doesn't matter how great the camera is if you have to use rinky dinky soft v23 beta 4 to get images acceptable to you - for all intents and purposes the images don't work (actually I was going to say suck) because you can't use your preferred workflow. I'm lucky because Capture One is my preferred solution for all of my cameras but if I were forced to use another converter that I didn't like, such as from Adobe or Silkypix or Irrident or <fill in blank>, then I'd also not be a fan of the Fuji either.

    It has to work for you and be a comfortable, usable system and if it isn't, for whatever reason, no amount of brow beating will change that.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Well, I must say I am seriously beginning to question whether I should have gotten the kit. I may have to send it back and get in line for a body only.

    Jono, I am definitely looking forward to your further experiences. I have gone back through a number of my x-e2 rental's shots and been satisfied with those, but they were all manual lenses on a speed booster adapter.

    Doug

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    WRT kit lens I only can reiterate I meanwhile have my 2nd copy (sold the first one with my XPro1) 2 and I am more than satisfied. Maybe there are bad samples ....

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Ditto - my two (don't ask) 18-55 kit lenses have been just fine. Actually, excellent in fact.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    Oh boy, would this be boring.....
    There would be the sound of chirping crickets on all GetDPI and other fora that's for sure!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    I'm beginning to think I actually have a faulty camera.......unless I'm being really stupid. Please could you check your camera ( those who have it)

    1. My rear thumb dial does nothing, either in A/P/or M mode
    2. The AE lock button does nothing in any mode
    3. The AF lock button does nothing in any mode
    4. The metering type switch (under the shutter speed dial) does nothing either

    Am I doing something wrong? Am I going mad? Or is it back to the shop with it?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Hi Graham
    Quite agree about software. My plan was to use the jpg files until Aperture support came along. Still my plan actually. I'll be happy to use something else for the odd shot if desirable (I have capture 1 and I'll get hold of a copy of Photo Ninja)

    I hope you're not getting me wrong. I want this to work, and I've learned a lot from this thread ( not least from your contributions ). Hopefully others will as well.

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Jono, you are not alone, but it does seem to be a Fuji trait

    Fuji X100s Review

    and in this recent review of the X100S the posterised smearing is described. For what its worth I had the compact X10 and sold it within ten days because of exactly the same thing, the RAW files were unusable because of the blocking of colour with just the smallest adjustment. JPEGs were great out of the box though.

    Steve

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I'm beginning to think I actually have a faulty camera.......unless I'm being really stupid. Please could you check your camera ( those who have it)

    1. My rear thumb dial does nothing, either in A/P/or M mode
    2. The AE lock button does nothing in any mode
    3. The AF lock button does nothing in any mode
    4. The metering type switch (under the shutter speed dial) does nothing either

    Am I doing something wrong? Am I going mad? Or is it back to the shop with it?
    All my buttons work as they're supposed to. Looks like you might actually have a bad sample of the camera there. Sounds like a trip back to the shop is in order.

    Bill
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Okay, this is serious. Really nasty smudginess, but not just in JPG files, also in DNG files created from Adobe DNG converter and viewed in Lightroom. Grass is the worst culprit, but it also happens in hair - seems to be everywhere.

    Iridient is better, but there are still smudgy greens and strangely patterned road surfaces



    Any suggestions please?
    Adobe/Lightroom are not good for converting Xtrans with good detail. I find the best overall is Capture One and also Iridient. Aperture is pretty good, but may not get the finest detail.

    I don't have much issue with JPEGS but Adobe stuff is still no good compared to the other options. Also the included Silky Pix at this point is not bad either if you know how to play with its settings.

    If you must use a raw converter that may not get the best out of Xtrans then maybe this camera is not for you.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there David
    I'm not a serious pixel peeper myself, but these look awful, artifacts everywhere on Iridient and smudginess in LR. Comparing them to E-M1 files isn't funny.
    You may want to play with the different varied settings Iridient provides because as far as detail goes, Iridient with Xtrans is pretty darn good.

    Maybe Aperture will do better....... But when? I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and have a try with Silkypix .
    I've emailed Fuji, I can't believe that this isn't going to be a really big deal, so maybe they'll sort it with a firmware update. I hope I can find a solution because I really love the camera!
    Thank you for the offer! I'll keep it in mind, but I'm not in a hurry. One thing is that I won't be buying any more lenses yet.
    This is a solved problem. The issue is to pick the right raw converter and the right settings. This is not new, unless there's a major bug for the JPEG engine for the XT1 but it's the first time I hear it. Quite frankly I find the Fuji image quality better than anything m4/3rds has, though that shouldn't read that I think m4/3rds doesn't have good excellent quality options at this point.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Everyone
    Many thanks for all the input - I think it's something worth bottoming out. I have to say I'm wondering about the OIS on the lens - (it was switched on), and I agree the second shot looks out of focus . . . but not everywhere- so I don't think it's just that.
    Quite frankly the 2nd shot looks like out of focus to me. Some parts will be in focus as the distance from lens vary.
    []

    All the best[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    All my buttons work as they're supposed to. Looks like you might actually have a bad sample of the camera there. Sounds like a trip back to the shop is in order.

    Bill
    hi Bill
    thanks for that. . . . . and if they aren't working, what else?

    the guy in the shop is talking to Fuji, and I'll take it back in tomorrow. I was offered a refund, but I don't give up that easily! Hopefully they can get a replacement before too long.

    Ricardo, thanks for that, I'd read all about RAW converters before I began, and was planning to use Aperture, concentrating on JPG until RAF is supported (hopefully before too long)

    Jim - thanks for chipping in, to be honest, your splendid photos were a strong incentive to get the camera (the colour).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    I have true sympathy with you Jono.
    This morning I am exhausted,
    I had a dreadful night,
    endless turbulent anxiety dreams of how I could solve the mushy green JPEG problem ......




    ...... and I don't even own an X sensor camera!
    Ian.
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Thanks Ian
    I'm rather exhausted too!
    I haven't given up though. this saga will continue!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Sure, I guess so..Trust me, I was just about to hit "Buy" today after seeing the Chris Nichols and Kai Man Wong videos and hearing many many folks heap praise. I actually really liked my year with the XPro-1. I found Fuji colors to be supreme, but the camera's AF was laggy at the time, and I was never satisfied with the smearing that I saw in LR conversions.

    I am totally a LR guy, and I am hearing many of the same comments that I saw nearly 2 years ago, when the camera was fresh and full of promise.

    I suspect that there's just something about X-trans that folks haven't figured out yet (at Adobe/Apple) yet. Clearly, Fuji's JPEG engine can mostly get it right, and so that leaves me puzzled...why other's can't do it, or why Fuji hasn't provided the keys to that kingdom. They have responded in many other ways, and have provided a true shooter's camera in the XT-1....

    All of that said, I am plenty happy at the moment with the A7, which also has its flaws....

    We are all in search of a perfect camera....Fuji is close, but for me, until the IQ issues are tidied up in LR, I would struggle with it....plus, I really trust what Jono sees in things, as we see much in the same light....
    I am sorry but I can't agree with you at all on the Xtrans image quality. And you do mention you use precisely raw converters that do not make the best of it. Yes, if you must use Adobe, and that has to be your workflow, then look elsewhere. But that doesn't mean Xtrans is bad, it just means Adobe hasn't done their homework yet.

    - Ricardo

    PS: Everyone is talking about greens and what nots. Think about this- Xtrans has *more green* photo sensors than Bayer. It's supposed to resolve *more*- not less, detail in leaves, greenery. It's also better for extracting B&W detail and is what the human eye responds the most to for luminance.

    As someone who uses now regularly an AAless Bayer camera (Ricoh GR) I can vouch that the Xtrans does keep a lot of the "bite" of not having an AA (particularly in B&W) while making the output very resilient to color moire. I have even shot veils on mannequins that are perfect shots to show moire and while you can still get it with an Xtrans it's pretty darn rare compared to an AAless Bayer.
    Last edited by raist3d; 27th February 2014 at 02:40.
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thanks Ian
    I'm rather exhausted too!
    I haven't given up though. this saga will continue!
    So I downloaded the first shot and put it through Iridient and I don't have much problem recovering lots of detail. If the mushy area is the upper left, I suggest you take the exact same shot with a Bayer camera- take your pick (EM1) and compare because I think what's going on here is simply there's grass cut, at lower to the ground and a lot of little leaves in the distance which will make the whole thing prone to mush.

    The trees and leaves in the distance look quite detailed. Same with the green leaves in the front. Capture One 7 doesn't support the XT1 AFAIK yet so can't try that at the moment but they will certainly add it soon as they already figured out the de-mosaicing.

    Here's one 100% crops - left is the JPEG you uploaded and the right is a conversion in Iridient. Sharpness and noise reduction can be further tweaked to taste. The files are being compared side to side using Lightroom 4.3, and no processing is used for Lightroom. Screenshot taken and saved as PNG to keep what the monitor shows me here 100% intact and lossless.

    http://raist3d.typepad.com/files/scr...2.29.56-am.png

    To me this is a solved problem, but Adobe needs to up their game. I am not going to try to convert the 2nd shot because the 2nd shot to me has obvious focus and/or blooming problems of some sort, and certainly not the super sharp typical results I get with the same lens on my X-E1.


    - Ricardo
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Here's another crop comparison. I am going to take the liberty of posting this one in the thread directly as it is about 1MB.

    Original uploaded JPEG left, Iridient right.



    - Ricardo

    PS: If you look hard enough YOU WILL notice at some point or another a minor artifact. Bayer cameras *also* have artifacts. Just keep that in mind.
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Couple of shots with greens and 100% crops from each image. X-E1 with 18-55 "0" sharpening.
    If I were Jono, with the other cameras he has, I think I'd get a refund and continue with what he has which give him results he's not happy with. So I am impressed he's pursuing the issue
    David
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Here's another crop comparison. I am going to take the liberty of posting this one in the thread directly as it is about 1MB.

    Original uploaded JPEG left, Iridient right.



    - Ricardo

    PS: If you look hard enough YOU WILL notice at some point or another a minor artifact. Bayer cameras *also* have artifacts. Just keep that in mind.
    Ricardo, may I ask you which settings you have used in Iridient? I have tried myself and with the default settings I get a lot o reddish/purplish artifacts on the bark of the tree and very few also on the grass; to remove them completely I have to push to the far right the ChromAdaptive slider and a bit also the Chromalogic (5) recovering then some sharpness with RL Deconvolution (0.4 - 16). I am sure there are also better combinations but this is what I found in 10 minutes.
    Ario
    www.arioarioldi.net
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    I guess if you want to call when I first joined dpi in 2011 new; so be it.
    I am definitely new to the Fuji forum.
    The only area I was in for most of my time was the Dante's.

    This was not an attack on Ashwin, I don't know you or your work.
    I am informed you are very knowledgeable and that's great.
    The original post just appeared to be piling on when Jono reported an issue.

    docmore; I will be shooting more greens when greens finally reappear from under the damn snow. Now that I know Jono is a guy, great. I apologize for the inadvertent gender swap.

    I don't usually post unless there is something I can add or help with.


    I have tried every bloody raw processor on the planet tying to get the x-trans images the way I want and finally have them printing large and beautiful (to me) with capture one and photo ninja.

    So just relax everyone, if you feel it is necessary to chastise me, have a great time.
    Don't condescend to me. Don't write me off as a newbie. I may mistake your gender. I may take umbrage with a comment. I will always try to help if it is within my skill set. I will not call you names (sticks and stone and all that.). I will continue to enjoy GetDPI.


    Regards,
    Jon
    Jon,

    Let me apologize for the rather brusque response to your post...not typical from me and in the light of day seems harsh...again not the best wording.

    This is a great place to learn about equipment from folks who stress it to an amazing extent in shooting and post process. An occasional wonky piece of gear can lead to a lot of handwringing and bandwidth. But overall we learn what works and what to avoid.

    I so want to find a Fuji product that will answer all of my petty desires and "needs" - IQ like my Alpa TC and Rodenstocks, color like my S2-P, ease of carry and use like my Mamiya 7 (NO scanning please...) Fuji glass is great and this sensor is - like the Sigma - an attempt to improve on a kludge that the Bayer sensors have in common. Did I say battery life....and should I mention I have 8 batteries for my Df 5 for my A7r and 4 for the Leica M-E.

    Small size, dead on accurate AF and a VF that mimics the Nikon F3HP.

    Oh I would like to swim with it occasionally....

    Fuji glass is wonderful and inexpensive, colors are fabulous ...

    And I should admit I would be in the midst of this had either of my local camera stores not sold out of the X-T1 in less than two days...no one on their pre-order lists backed out...all previous Fuji owners.

    I look forward to this resolving and admit I am a bit surprised that two years into the X-Trans most of the big players are still chasing Fuji OOC JPGs...

    I too spent a lot of time in the MF forum but when my Epson 4900 died I realized that all of the expense for an occasional 11x17 was unwarranted...

    Now ... just need to find one camera that will allow me to do all the above...got to be one out there!

    Again, no offense was intended and look forward to your input.

    Regards,

    Bob
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Here's another crop comparison. I am going to take the liberty of posting this one in the thread directly as it is about 1MB.

    Original uploaded JPEG left, Iridient right.



    - Ricardo

    PS: If you look hard enough YOU WILL notice at some point or another a minor artifact. Bayer cameras *also* have artifacts. Just keep that in mind.
    It is not just the greens that have improved. The entire image is sharper and more "life like" plowed field, buildings in background, trees in background.

    John
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    After converting the 1st image to a dng, I then was able to use LR 5.3.

    Actually I don't see a lot of problems in the grass. May be my eyes. The trick I have found to greens in LR or ACR is don't load up on the sharpening while in LR or ACR, instead just do enough to make things being to show the effect. Later on in CS I will use focus magic to finish.

    LR/ACR seems OK in the crops I have added on the greens, however the 2nd crop shows the tree buds against the blue sky and here you see a issue that I have noticed since day one with LR. It can't handle the light tree buds against the blue sky and creates a strange effect. This happens for me with any bare trees or winter trees with leaves. C1 will do a better job here, but I don't think it will open a dng? I am not able to find a exif converter than will work on the raf extension, if anyone knows of one that works in windows, please let me know.

    Paul C.
    Paul Caldwell
    [email protected]
    www.photosofarkansas.com
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Jono,

    here are four shot with green in it, all OOC JPEGs from the XE2, all imported in Aperture and exported for reducing size.

    I cannot see any artifacts, maybe you do? I can of course also send you the original JPEGs if you want to try.

    Peter
    NICE PHOTO

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Here's another crop comparison. I am going to take the liberty of posting this one in the thread directly as it is about 1MB.

    - Ricardo

    PS: If you look hard enough YOU WILL notice at some point or another a minor artifact. Bayer cameras *also* have artifacts. Just keep that in mind.
    HI There Ricardo
    Many thanks for your efforts - I had tried Iridient, but I was having difficulty with colour artefacts (as Ario mentioned).

    Anyway, you encouraged me to carry on. Basically what I did was:

    1. turn off the lens corrections (may need them sometimes, but not all the time)

    Then I set the detail tab like this:



    I then saved a 16 bit tiff and compared with the jpg in Aperture (my poison).

    Here is the comparison:
    JPG vs Iridient Tiff

    (like you, it's a big png file so I've linked to it).

    To me it's like chalk and cheese - it's not often I'll need it, but it does the job (happy now).


    Now all I have to do is get the camera replaced because the the AE lock, AF lock and exposure mode controls aren't working :face smack: But that's a whole different thing!

    All the very best - and thank you again. I've bought Iridient

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Jono,
    Cool that irridient is going to work out for you when you need it.

    All,
    Here is a test from a scene that I found issues with. The default processing in LR definitely looked icky (technical term) to me. I reprocessed the file the way I normally would in LR and compared that versus the file processed in Irridient, and here is the result. This is a 100% crop. Just for fun, unscientific poll, which is which and which is better? (For the record, I see a difference).

    Doug


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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidL View Post
    Couple of shots with greens and 100% crops from each image. X-E1 with 18-55 "0" sharpening.
    If I were Jono, with the other cameras he has, I think I'd get a refund and continue with what he has which give him results he's not happy with. So I am impressed he's pursuing the issue
    David
    Hi There David
    I really want to make the right decision about which mirrorless system to use, but the only way to do this is to get to grips with each of them. So I have an A7, an E-M1 and the Fuji - I won't finally decide until the Weather resistant Fuji lenses appear, but there isn't much point in giving up too soon.

    I have the kit lens with each - and I certainly have good versions of the Sony and Olympus lenses - I haven't really tested the Fuji lens yet, but if the kit needs to go back because of the non-buttons, then I suppose the lens will be changed as well.

    Personally this thread has been really useful, if time consuming. I tried Photo Ninja (don't like the software or the results) and also Iridient - which I think is a lovely simple and intuitive program. Hopefully it will have helped others as well.

    Do you want a cat?

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Whew! After reading this thread, and the related expert and anecdotal opinions,
    I thought my Fuji camera/s were a bum purchase.

    The I remembered..The grass is greener etc. etc..

    Green..not with envy, but thankful. Real thankful

    I do not have to deal ( except very rarely ) with green grass and foliage.

    I am lucky, if I find green around here.

    The browns seem perfect for me. My kind of browns.

    I think I shall take something else when visiting greener pastures, and use Fujis
    around the desert.

    Sky and sand dunes. Fuji colour. I am sure Fuji know something about colour.

    Now, where is that expensive Leica Lux 35 that cannot focus correctly past f 1.4.
    I keep it as a momento of that great brand.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Jono

    Sad to see your angst but hopefully being resolved. I have the original X100 and found the JPEGs to be so good that I could rarely better them in RAW. When I bought the X-Pro two years ago (at vast expense) I was very disappointed with the JPEG quality for detail rendering and still am. At the time there wasn't much available for RAWs, apart from Silkypix, RPP and then Accuraw. The first LR attempts were dire. It was some time before C1, Iridient and Photo Ninja gave us some salvation!

    During last summer I even went for a m/43 camera again in frustration but found that the Fuji images from RAW were better in almost every way, in spite of the 'foliage issue'. So I sold that camera and got myself a nice 14mm for my Fuji instead! I believe that the latest versions of LR are now pretty good, actually, and have almost decided to just go with LR as a default and then may be pop out to Iridient or Photo Ninja when I really need to.

    I have tried your first RAW image in Iriridient, Photo Ninja and the latest ACR beta via a trial version of Photoshop CC and it looks good in all of them.

    So, I think the moral of the story is not to rely on JPEG as a measure of X-trans landscape quality and to make sure you use an up to date version of RAW conversion software that supports it.

    My remaining issue with the Fuji system is purely due to the fact that I also have a collection of Sigma DP Merrills. Now there's a camera if you really want to see what blades of grass and foliage and sky and water etc look like …

    Lee

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Jono

    Sad to see your angst but hopefully being resolved.
    snip
    My remaining issue with the Fuji system is purely due to the fact that I also have a collection of Sigma DP Merrills. Now there's a camera if you really want to see what blades of grass and foliage and sky and water etc look like

    Lee
    Hi There Lee
    Well - it's no final decision, just not a final no.

    I don't do the Merrills, just like I don't do Medium Format, because I just can't be bothered with a camera which gets in my way . . . The reason for persevering with the Fuji is because it really doesn't!

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Whew! After reading this thread, and the related expert and anecdotal opinions,
    I thought my Fuji camera/s were a bum purchase.

    The I remembered..The grass is greener etc. etc..

    Green..not with envy, but thankful. Real thankful
    Hi Ray
    I hope you didn't read it all. . . but the truth is that the Fuji does lovely greens . . . it's the detail that's the issue!

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There David
    I really want to make the right decision about which mirrorless system to use, but the only way to do this is to get to grips with each of them. So I have an A7, an E-M1 and the Fuji - I won't finally decide until the Weather resistant Fuji lenses appear, but there isn't much point in giving up too soon.

    I have the kit lens with each - and I certainly have good versions of the Sony and Olympus lenses - I haven't really tested the Fuji lens yet, but if the kit needs to go back because of the non-buttons, then I suppose the lens will be changed as well.

    Personally this thread has been really useful, if time consuming. I tried Photo Ninja (don't like the software or the results) and also Iridient - which I think is a lovely simple and intuitive program. Hopefully it will have helped others as well.

    Do you want a cat?
    How is the cat cooked?

    Sorry - it was a joke. I am owned by two cats and they would laugh. Actually, this is perhaps appropriate: Sad Cat Diary - YouTube

    Funny, because I went to my local shop to check out the XT1. I haven't liked the ergos of any of the previous Fuji bodies, but have admired some of the shots. I love my A7r, and the RX1r works when I need a quiet camera, but would be good to have something a bit more flexible. I've migrated away from u4/3, so having an APS-C for shooting longer could be good.

    Anywho, I found the shutter on the XT1 to be quiet enough that it could replace the RX1r for silent shooting. Win. The EVF on the XT1 is nice - a tad bigger and brighter than the A7r. And I really need an EVF with my aging eyes (another strike against the RX1r unless I want to give sony another $450). Win.

    But then I brought the jpg shots home to look at and wasn't really impressed. No green grass as it was inside a store, but instead blown highlights that I couldn't recover in LR. By contrast, the raw files of the same scene from the A7r held up just fine. Part of that is just physics I guess. I used to shoot my Oly at -0.3 or -0.7 to preserve highlights - maybe that is necessary with the XT1?

    I'd really love to love this camera, as the 18-55, 55-200, and 56/1.2 would be a great general purpose system. But I fear I may have been spoiled by the Sony FF files...

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