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Thread: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    While I was about to bemoan the lack of large sensor compacts, according to rumours it looks like Fuji is about to release the X70.
    APSC 28mm equivalent compact.
    The non telescoping lens design is welcome as is the tilt screen.

    Its tough to judge the size but it seems is may be not too small, not too big.

    I like it but doubt it will supplant the GR.
    Thoughts on this.

    Fujifilm X70 Photos and Specs Leaked: Touchscreen Has Arrived

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    As a GR user, I really like it. I think the touch screen on this type of camera will come in really handy.

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    It looks good, looks "flat",
    maybe just a variation on the X100 but more choices are nice.

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative


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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    There is quite a glowing review here http://jonasraskphotography.com/2016...lm-x70-review/

    I am rather taken with the clarity and sharpness this little camera can manage.
    Check out the eye image in the link above. Its every bit as good as the GR perhaps even better.
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    There is quite a glowing review here http://jonasraskphotography.com/2016...lm-x70-review/

    I am rather taken with the clarity and sharpness this little camera can manage.
    Check out the eye image in the link above. Its every bit as good as the GR perhaps even better.
    The reviewer says it is made for street photography. Why a teensy flash instead of a Sony like pop up EVF?

    (i would have been happy without the flash, even if there was no EVF)
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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The reviewer says it is made for street photography. Why a teensy flash instead of a Sony like pop up EVF?

    (i would have been happy without the flash, even if there was no EVF)
    I do agree.

    If without a flash and EVF, use the space for an active AF module or something useful.

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Looks like the real Leica X1 successor, a jacket or belt pouch sized aps-c compact with good user interface and plenty of manual controls. If I did not own a GR this one would be tempting. Better jpegs, high iso, touch screen, manual controls speak for the X70. Size, weight, battery life, ergonomics for the GR.
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative


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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Fujinon 18.5/2.8 seems to be identical to the one in Ricoh GR according to the lens specs, e.g. 7 elements in 5 groups with 2 aspherical elements, 0.1m MFD, 9-blades. Though their MTFs are different. Wonder which one has a better optical distortion control. Ricoh GR can do high speed sync of 1/2500s at all aperture values, x70 - only up to 1/1000s. I'm curious how good is continuous AF hit rate at 8fps for moving subjects.

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Over on DPReview is a test chart showing results from the GR and X100T. No X70 yet, so this is all a bit useless... except there is one bit of interest there...

    Have a look here - Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

    --- where the GR at center is not quite as good as the X100, move the target to the mid center, to the green leaves and its better than all.
    I looked though the Jonas Rask samples and cannot quite get over the tack sharpness of the eye image - The Fujifilm X70 Review | jonasrask|photography

    If the Fuji can focus accurate and first time in low light it may have an advantage.
    I have a feeling I am not going to get over the X70 until I buy and try.

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    I'm in a market for a compact 28mm camera with a flash sync speed over 1/1000s.
    If x70 lens is as sharp across the field as the one in Ricoh GR, x70 IQ will have an edge with no aliasing artefacts. If continuous drive and tracking AF-C modes work well together insuring a high hit rate, I'll have no doubts of which camera to choose.
    2x Olympic gold medalist Pete Reed shoots with x70 already
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIyliQMCcEw

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    I'm in a market for a compact 28mm camera with a flash sync speed over 1/1000s.
    Interesting question. It does reportedly have a leaf shutter. I heard some reviewer say it had a high flash sync. I think I heard also that there is an electronic shutter?

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Tim, x70 does have a leaf shutter. Jonas Rask mentioned in a comment reply that it syncs with flashes as x100 does at all apertures at 1/1000s. It does go up to max sync speed of 1/4000.
    I'm curious why none of the P&S manufactures (Sony, Fuji, Ricoh, Sigma) promote the leaf shutter high sync speed feature? They don't even mention the max x-sync speed in the camera specs, while it's among the major selling points for P1 & Leica S.
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Replacing my GR seems almost unthinkable, but the X70 is pretty compelling. I always regretted no tilt screen on the GR and the Fuji has it. Plus, judging from my experience with X-Trans, there should be a stop or so better ISO performance. Ergonomics and everything else with the GR are about perfect. I look forward to handling the X70 when my local store has one.

    One thing for sure, Ricoh need to keep moving forward. They can't just stick a "II" on an existing model, no matter how good it is.

    John
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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    One thing for sure, Ricoh need to keep moving forward. They can't just stick a "II" on an existing model, no matter how good it is.

    John
    You are so right, if the X70 does anything for a locked in GR user, that will be to push Ricoh to "up their game".
    In this case competition could be good.

    For those who are obsessed with that camera sizer like I sometimes am, the X70 has made it to their list.

    Here's some to compare with - Compact Camera Meter

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    x70 user manual is now available: http://fujifilm-dsc.com/en/manual/x7..._EN_S_F_02.pdf
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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Tim, x70 does have a leaf shutter. Jonas Rask mentioned in a comment reply that it syncs with flashes as x100 does at all apertures at 1/1000s. It does go up to max sync speed of 1/4000.
    I'm curious why none of the P&S manufactures (Sony, Fuji, Ricoh, Sigma) promote the leaf shutter high sync speed feature? They don't even mention the max x-sync speed in the camera specs, while it's among the major selling points for P1 & Leica S.

    The manual that you posted above shows on page 47 that the shutter will sync at speeds of 1/2000 or slower.
    I hope I am not misunderstanding this.

    Page 149 also mentions that "Flash turns off when ELECTRONIC SHUTTER is selected for SHUTTER TYPE"
    So I assume flash can't be used with Electronic shutter.

    The restrictions chart on P148 is awesome.

    You are quite correct that other manufacturers don't mention this feature.
    I looked through the Ricoh GR manual and can find no mention of the sync speed with its leaf shutter.
    There is a brief article here about the GR sync ability - diglloyd Mirrorless - Ricoh GR - Leaf Shutter in Lens: Shutter Speed + Flash Sync (diglloyd.com excerpt)

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Fuji mentioned x-sync speed in the manual. 1/2000s is great and most likely applies to all aperture values. Max x-sync might raise up to 1/4000s with aperture stopped down (I hope). Sigma DPMs work in a similar fashion and sync with flash up to 1/2000s from f/5.6 and smaller.
    That's the first Fuji user manual I read, and was pleasantly surprised by a number of described limitations, e.g. focus point selection and flash operation in burst mode.
    This way you don't get frustrated when you learn camera operation limitations by yourself, because a manufacturer didn't mention them in a manual.
    BTW, there is no field-of-view crop in Movie mode
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Bjorn Moerman photo-diary with the Fujifilm X70: http://bjornmoerman.blogspot.ae/2016...-my-photo.html
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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Some real world samples by dpreview here: Fujifilm X70 Real-world Samples: Digital Photography Review
    The camera used was production quality so would give an initial idea of IQ
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    I honestly don't see this camera as a clear advantage over the GR. Here are the main things I see:
    - Fuji JPEG simulation
    - Xtrans better resilience to color moire
    - Fuji handling of aperture/exposure dials
    - Articulated LCD

    After that I see one thing that to me is a bit of an omission
    - No built in ND filter
    - No snap focus (though you can certainly play toggling AF/MF)
    - The Ricoh GR is more pocketable
    - The Ricoh GR has a faster leaf shutter
    - at least in USA, Ricoh GR is $50-$100 USD less

    The first to me for street life is a bit of an omission if you wanted to shoot wide open. The fuji does have an electronic shutter option- but that will create some serious rolling shutter artifacts if you are moderately panning around (per my experience with XT10).

    As for sharpness I am not seeing at least for JPEG any shots so far that best the Ricoh GR lens. I am sure the Fuji is pretty sharp too but the Ricoh is pretty sharp also.

    Resilience to color moire would be to me the big Fuji advantage if you do your work in color.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Color pallet differences would be a difference maker to me.

    For those of you who have both a GR and a Fuji X-trans sensor camera, I'd like to know if the colors... flesh tones specifically... are better on one than the other.

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Eric Kim's review of the X70 from a street perspective. - Review of the Fujifilm X70 For Street Photography


    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    I honestly don't see this camera as a clear advantage over the GR. Here are the main things I see:
    - Fuji JPEG simulation
    - Xtrans better resilience to color moire
    - Fuji handling of aperture/exposure dials
    - Articulated LCD

    After that I see one thing that to me is a bit of an omission
    - No built in ND filter
    - No snap focus (though you can certainly play toggling AF/MF)
    - The Ricoh GR is more pocketable
    - The Ricoh GR has a faster leaf shutter
    - at least in USA, Ricoh GR is $50-$100 USD less

    The first to me for street life is a bit of an omission if you wanted to shoot wide open. The fuji does have an electronic shutter option- but that will create some serious rolling shutter artifacts if you are moderately panning around (per my experience with XT10).

    As for sharpness I am not seeing at least for JPEG any shots so far that best the Ricoh GR lens. I am sure the Fuji is pretty sharp too but the Ricoh is pretty sharp also.

    Resilience to color moire would be to me the big Fuji advantage if you do your work in color.

    - Ricardo
    I think you have nailed most of the main points.

    I've probably said this too many times but for a GR user the X70 does give Ricoh some incentive to improve with the GR III.
    They have competition again, since the Nikon A was discontinued.

    The fixed focal length quality compact is sparsely populated. The more the merrier for me.
    We really only have the GR, X70, Leica X1/X2, Nikon A and maybe the Sony RX1 group but even the RX1 are not a flat package.
    I was hoping that Fuji's rumoured MF camera may have been a HQ compact fixed lens like their 645 film series but I read its likely to be ICL.

    I plan on giving the X70 a try. I won't part with the GR even if I keep the X70.
    If I had a X70 and broke my GR I would buy a GRII, that is how much I like them.

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Fuji X-70 now in stock at B&H

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    Re: New X70, a Ricoh GR or Coolpix A alternative

    Just tried one for a few hours. I think the GR wins on ergonomics hands down. It was tough holding the x70 one handed, and having a removable lens cap isn't so great. Also, the weight difference is very noticeable.

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