Giving X-E3 a spin

[iiiNelson]

I will watch that Olympus flagship announcement very, Very, VERY carefully as it will tell me if m43 (Olympus) will just remain my compact system without any further investment or if I will decide to continue investing further in their gear (cameras AND lenses).

A big letdown for me would not only be a to highly priced high end model, but also another fixed super telephoto lens like a 4/400 PRO etc. For me they need to bring at least something like a m43 version of their legendary 90-250 (or similar, maybe a bit slower than 2.8). If that does not happen then the way is open to Nikon Z or Panasonic S or even Olympus E-mount full frame. What I would be pretty sure is if they decide to go FF their camera would exceed any of the Sony A7/A9 models by a huge margin in terms of operability.

Anyway I am relaxed watching where they decide to go.

Maybe... but in testing the actual performance of everything I really haven’t found anything that actually outperforms the generation 3 FE bodies... much less the A9.

 

[raist3d]

As soon as you think about longer telephoto lenses (primes and zooms) the advantage of m43 will always stay. And there are also many people who do no longer want to carry heavy FF equipment around - at least when they travel for leisure - me belonging meanwhile to that group. So when I go on vacation with my family I definitely will prefer a m43 camera with 1 or 2 lenses (for me preferably Olympus PRO zooms) and call it a day. Also for the price of the Z7 alone you could get an EM1.2 with 12-40 AND 40-150 PRO lenses .... so there are obviously many advantages to m43.

For the price of a Z7 yes, but not for the price of a Z6. The Z6 has pretty much everything the Z7 has, but a notch better ISO and still have more resolution than the Olympus model.

I acknowledge the telephoto lens case, but as I said, that's hardly the totality of the market. m43rds has its advantages but the way to play them, is not by making big lenses and big bodies. That's what killed 4/3rds.

Which is what I meant by saying "if Panasonic and Olympus play this right." One may point out "but there's PenF, GX9, etc." Sure, but those cameras do not carry the flagship tier best of m43rds. The ones that do are all big bodies now. They need to stop doing that asap.

We need "the next EM1" to be more like an OMD EM5 MKIII. Panasonic needs a GX9 that is weather sealed, better build for those dials. etc.

But again - I am pretty confident that m43 is not dead, there will be some shifts in m43 land and I guess overall cameras will become cheaper again as more FF mirrorless completion is around - which is finally great for us customers!

No, it's not dead but could die if they don't play this well. There's a minimum price bar and m43rds will be pushed hard. It will become harder and harder to justify a body bigger or as big as a Fuji XT3, and not buying one vs paying more for an EM1 MKII type body.

This is a link to a video where Panasonic clearly states that m43 is here to stay ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKGhYvpDc0

That's nice but that's also a marketing statement. It could be true- or not. Nikon re-iterated the Nikon 1 was here to stay- where's that? We heard some re-assurances in 4/3rds days.. Where is 4/3rds now?

- Ricardo

 

[ptomsu]

For the price of a Z7 yes, but not for the price of a Z6. The Z6 has pretty much everything the Z7 has, but a notch better ISO and still have more resolution than the Olympus model.

I acknowledge the telephoto lens case, but as I said, that's hardly the totality of the market. m43rds has its advantages but the way to play them, is not by making big lenses and big bodies. That's what killed 4/3rds.

Which is what I meant by saying "if Panasonic and Olympus play this right." One may point out "but there's PenF, GX9, etc." Sure, but those cameras do not carry the flagship tier best of m43rds. The ones that do are all big bodies now. They need to stop doing that asap.

We need "the next EM1" to be more like an OMD EM5 MKIII. Panasonic needs a GX9 that is weather sealed, better build for those dials. etc.



No, it's not dead but could die if they don't play this well. There's a minimum price bar and m43rds will be pushed hard. It will become harder and harder to justify a body bigger or as big as a Fuji XT3, and not buying one vs paying more for an EM1 MKII type body.



That's nice but that's also a marketing statement. It could be true- or not. Nikon re-iterated the Nikon 1 was here to stay- where's that? We heard some re-assurances in 4/3rds days.. Where is 4/3rds now?

- Ricardo

Ricardo,

you are right with the big list of abandoned products and I also agree they need to change specifications and pricing of m43 to stay competitive. For example I will not buy that rumoured high end Olympus camera which is rumoured to be introduced in May next year, if the price is too unattractive - say it is in the range of Z6.

But here you find another attempt by Panasonic to assure us that m43 is here to stay:

https://www.43rumors.com/uematsu-fr...rmat-we-plan-to-make-much-more-m4-3-products/

They seem to take arguing this VERY serious at least

Peter

 

[iiiNelson]

I actually have a strong belief that Micro 4/3 isn’t going anywhere. I do believe that the investment into the system is on another plane from 4/3 which makes a difference. Most people saw 4/3 as a value proposition... but they didn’t price it as such. The optics were world class no doubt but the sensors weren’t.

Now the biggest two hurdles to Micro 4/3 is going to be price AND of photographers view it as an either/or proposition versus owning FF AND Micro 4/3. If they adopt the FF AND Micro 4/3 philosophy then it’ll be fine. FF for work and Micro 4/3 for travel and pleasure... or video.

 

[raist3d]

I actually have a strong belief that Micro 4/3 isn’t going anywhere. I do believe that the investment into the system is on another plane from 4/3 which makes a difference. Most people saw 4/3 as a value proposition... but they didn’t price it as such. The optics were world class no doubt but the sensors weren’t.

Doesn't that seem a bit similar to the pricey telephoto primes, and the Olympus 3-prime set plus Panasonic Nocticron and the F1.4 wide angle prime? I don't see much difference there.

To me the real issue is both Panasonic and Olympus not doing the latest tech tier with smaller cameras, and then doing big expensive bodies. That's exactly what killed 4/3rds.

So I do see m43rds has an out but it needs to be played well.

Now the biggest two hurdles to Micro 4/3 is going to be price AND of photographers view it as an either/or proposition versus owning FF AND Micro 4/3. If they adopt the FF AND Micro 4/3 philosophy then it’ll be fine. FF for work and Micro 4/3 for travel and pleasure... or video.

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

Ricardo,

you are right with the big list of abandoned products and I also agree they need to change specifications and pricing of m43 to stay competitive. For example I will not buy that rumoured high end Olympus camera which is rumoured to be introduced in May next year, if the price is too unattractive - say it is in the range of Z6.

But here you find another attempt by Panasonic to assure us that m43 is here to stay:

https://www.43rumors.com/uematsu-fr...rmat-we-plan-to-make-much-more-m4-3-products/

They seem to take arguing this VERY serious at least

Peter

I still stand by what I said about marketing statements. I mean, if you were going to discontinue the line (extreme example, I don't think that's happening)- you would keep re-assuring people to not have sales tank.

That said, it sure helps they are saying this, because it puts Panasonic more and more in the public eye with the promise- and the pressure from marketing fallout to avoid if they broke it.

- Ricardo

 

[iiiNelson]

Doesn't that seem a bit similar to the pricey telephoto primes, and the Olympus 3-prime set plus Panasonic Nocticron and the F1.4 wide angle prime? I don't see much difference there.

To me the real issue is both Panasonic and Olympus not doing the latest tech tier with smaller cameras, and then doing big expensive bodies. That's exactly what killed 4/3rds.

So I do see m43rds has an out but it needs to be played well.




- Ricardo

I don’t disagree with you wholly but the expensive lenses typically have cheaper alternatives available and are still inexpensive compared to FF equivalents. For instance taking the more expensive Panasonic 200mm prime or the Olympus Pro 300mm lens... FF equivalents are $10k+ so in that respect the $2500 price tags seem more “fair” if you need the focal lengths. A person can get a G9 kit with the 12-60/2.8-4 for about $2k but I would agree theylir target flagship numbers needs to be closer to $1500 for a kit sooner rather than later.

 

[4711]

Please do not forhet that most companies are offereing several sensor formats at the same time. I do not understnd why this panic starts now, just because Panasonic wants to to the same thing like everybody else did for decades. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji... Nobody cries there, that there ares APS-C ´systems and fullframne/MF formats from the same brand?

...

The Fuji little primes are fantastic, but once you get to 90+mm equivalent focals the lenses grow up very fast. That said, the new announced Fuji F4 zoom 12-80 (or is it 14-80?) looks like it may cover that for me, as long as it's not too big and is good....

As far as I know the Fuji F4 12-80 will have 72mm filtersize. So this will be a big lens. That is a no-go for me.

Fuji needs to design a small and light 50-150/F4.0 telezoom to be able to compete with the Panasonic Lumix 35.100/F2.8 and a small and light wideangle to compete with the Olympus 9-18mm. If both happens, I could probably live only with Fuji. Oh and a small and light improved 60/2.8 please. Becasue the 50/2.0 WR is not matching the FL of the Pana 42.5/1.7 and for portraits a 90mm equivilant is better than only 75mm.

..

So with the m43rds facing tough times ahead, makes me feel like Maybe I should sell what I have and focus on Fuji, but that choice hasn't been made yet. Most of my shots lately are all GX9.

- Ricardo

Panasonic can relax with MFT, because there are enough lenses available for that system. I can not imagine a lens I miss for my personal use in the MFT lens offerings. I do think that this is one of the reasons, why they start now to develop FF on top of MFT. They only earn more money, if they produce and sell more new lenses. MFT is a cash cow. But no surprises are expected in MFT for further growth.

Do you miss any specific lens in MFT?

 

[raist3d]

Please do not forhet that most companies are offereing several sensor formats at the same time. I do not understnd why this panic starts now, just because Panasonic wants to to the same thing like everybody else did for decades. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Fuji... Nobody cries there, that there ares APS-C ´systems and fullframne/MF formats from the same brand?

Because the other companies have done the apsc and FF since forever. because the other companies have more resources than Olympus or Panasonic. Because Olympus and Panasonic have spent a lot on m43

Anyway. I decided to keep using the gx9 and pretty happy overall. Only issue is read dial has become jumpy/unresponsive. so may have to send for repair or clean under warranty.

As far as I know the Fuji F4 12-80 will have 72mm filtersize. So this will be a big lens. That is a no-go for me.

Fuji needs to design a small and light 50-150/F4.0 telezoom to be able to compete with the Panasonic Lumix 35.100/F2.8 and a small and light wideangle to compete with the Olympus 9-18mm. If both happens, I could probably live only with Fuji. Oh and a small and light improved 60/2.8 please. Becasue the 50/2.0 WR is not matching the FL of the Pana 42.5/1.7 and for portraits a 90mm equivilant is better than only 75mm.

I also would like to see a smaller F4 from fuji.

Panasonic can relax with MFT, because there are enough lenses available for that system. I can not imagine a lens I miss for my personal use in the MFT lens offerings. I do think that this is one of the reasons, why they start now to develop FF on top of MFT. They only earn more money, if they produce and sell more new lenses. MFT is a cash cow. But no surprises are expected in MFT for further growth.

Do you miss any specific lens in MFT?

not exactly. Miss a 25 mm f1.4 at the same level of quality of the nocticron - the current one isn’t. The original 4/3 version is! (using it a bit now)

but what I do miss is a small top tech body. Of Olympus and Panasonic don’t play this well, then I see another 4/3 fate.

- Ricardo

 

[4711]

...
Anyway. I decided to keep using the gx9 and pretty happy overall. ...

I thought that you do a lot of low light photography. Don't you miss than the APS-C advantage of the XE3 vs. GX9? How much does the XE3 differ from the GX9 in dynamic range, colours etc. RAW and ooc Jpeg?

I only use the GX80/85 and XE3. Can not yet convince myself to upgrade to the GX9.

...


I also would like to see a smaller F4 from fuji.


...

The XC50-230 is actually really good. But its size is too big/long. I would love to see something smaller/shorter to fit in my smalles bag. I do not need the additionial focal range between 150-230 really.

...


not exactly. Miss a 25 mm f1.4 at the same level of quality of the nocticron - the current one isn’t. The original 4/3 version is! (using it a bit now)

but what I do miss is a small top tech body. Of Olympus and Panasonic don’t play this well, then I see another 4/3 fate.

- Ricardo

I totally agree. I was disappointed from the PanaLeica 25/1.4 MFT. I gave it back and stick to my Pana 25/1.7. How do you attach the 4/3 version to keep AF? How big does the 4/3 version feels on the GX9 body?


A GM9 with latest tech or a GX10 with latest tech (especially jpeg ooc and AF and built in Mic and better viewfinder). But maybe Panasonic is planning this. Now that they offer also fullframe and now that they already have 3 big pro-bodies in MFT (GH5s, GH5 and G9) for those who need it (i.e. with gloves etc.), they can focus now on the core MFT advantage: smaller size.

 

[raist3d]

I do a lot of low light photography but i never shied away too much from m43 in low light now that photolab 2 came out and supports gx9.

i tried. org and decided that a quieter shutter, tilt lcd and some key focal lenses being smaller was more important to me. though I still like the AF speed of the xe3. need to get rid of it now.

 

[raist3d]

on 4/3 25mm -its a bit big but still ok if you hold the lens with one hand. AF is slow so i pre focus or manual
AF. but the results are amazing.

for a lens that was just sitting there doing nothing this is fantastic

the m43 25mm f1.4 is not bad per se but just doesn’t match this.

 

[raist3d]

I do a lot of low light photography but i never shied away too much from m43 in low light now that photolab 2 came out and supports gx9.

i tried. org and decided that a quieter shutter, tilt lcd and some key focal lenses being smaller was more important to me. though I still like the AF speed of the xe3. need to get rid of it now.

I typed this on a phone so now that I am at the computer....

Basically I never shied away trying m43rds in low light, while the X-E3 sensor is better, the GX9 sensor covers in many situations, more so with DXo's photolab 2 now supporting the GX9 with its PRIME noise reduction.

I tried both cameras and decided that a quieter mechanical shutter and tilt LCD plus some smaller key focal length primes was more important to me right now- though the X-E3 AF overall still seems better. Need to get rid of it now.

- Ricardo