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Rayyan, you must be dumb.

rayyan

Well-known member
I have now used the Fuji x-pro 2 extensively. In most parts around the world.
The last outing Was on Feb/2018 in the Philippines, in the highlands.

One of the reasons was to test it out on extensive and dense variable foliage..from the mountain top into the valley and then across another mountain. With tropical vegetation.

What follows is my subjective opinion. The results I got in this scenario have not convinced me that the x-trans is a viable option for me for dense foliage.
That might be due to my incompetence, incorrect usage of the camera/lens combos, or incorrect choice or usage of post post processing software.

As far as sw goes, I am very very reluctant to learn new sw besides adobe or c1 Pro. Although I have bought others and tried 1.

For everything else,the x-pro 2 is more than adequate for me. No, it is excellent.

Maybe I am paranoid about mushy and watery effects and worms over my images..but that is the way it is for me.

As such, I am seriously recosidering my impulse decision to go for the Fuji xh-1.

Same sensor. Not for me for tropical or dense forests, where one wants a clean image front, middle and back.

Of course, as my wife says...Rayyan you are dumb. After so many years, you still
Cannot photograph trees! She must have a point.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Rayyan,

you are not the first complaining about these issues coming from the X-Trans sensor - many have already done this in this forum and elsewhere ...

Having said that - I used the X-T2 extensively for almost 1.5 years (before I sold it last autumn to go fully Olympus m43), but I never ever had to complain about such issues. I am also using LR and C1 and the image results were always to my liking - no matter what I photographed.

I had different issues with my X-T2, too small batteries, battery grip loosing electrical contact with camera during shooting (which was not fun being on Safari in Africa and suddenly see there is only 1 in camera battery left instead of 3 batteries with the grip, etc., etc.) that finally made me leave Fuji - at least for now.

I must say if the X-H1 would have had bigger batteries I would definitely have gone back to Fuji as otherwise I was very happy with that system.

Best

Peter
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Peter, I do not doubt your experience and results with the x-trans, in the least.

Was just posting my thoughts, based on the results I got.

Just like you, I shall take my time about a final decision re: the xh-1.

I shall put in more effort with the x-trans files and my camera...while I make a decision.

Thank you for your input and my warmest regards.
 

Rand47

Active member
Iridient Xtransformer plug-in for Lightroom. Simple to use to demosaic the raw, then use Lightroom controls as normal sans much if any sharpening.

Rand
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
I'm not sure how the XH1 would change anything other than adding IBIS, which generates heat which equates to noise. That camera is really geared for video and doesn't add much for stills imo. The Fuji X cameras are great for many things, but foliage and skin tones have been noted in many reviews. Using in camera settings, such as turning down NR can mitigate most of those mentioned. Perhaps, you should wait for the XT3 which will have a different sensor technology. Fuji rumors is a good site for info too.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I'm not sure how the XH1 would change anything other than adding IBIS, which generates heat which equates to noise. That camera is really geared for video and doesn't add much for stills imo. The Fuji X cameras are great for many things, but foliage and skin tones have been noted in many reviews. Using in camera settings, such as turning down NR can mitigate most of those mentioned. Perhaps, you should wait for the XT3 which will have a different sensor technology. Fuji rumors is a good site for info too.
What different type of sensor tech did you hear of for the XT3 except more MP? Maybe it is still too early for a organic sensor :scry:
 

krist8

Member
XH1 has become bigger. What do you think of the new Sony A7III? 24 mp ff. Battery lasts for more than 700 pics.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
XH1 has become bigger. What do you think of the new Sony A7III? 24 mp ff. Battery lasts for more than 700 pics.
This SONY A7III would be my choice, but I hear that it has still an AA filter - a fact if true that definitely turns me 100 percent off. Anybody can confirm if it has an AA filter or not?
 

Satrycon

Well-known member
from ken rockwells review >>

"Sony never mentions if it has an anti-alias filter or not, and my observations confirm the pixel-to-pixel sharpness as being so high that it doesn't appear to have an anti-alias filter. Just look at the camera-original ISO 100 sample images which were shot as JPGs in-camera: they are insanely sharp; I've never seen sharper JPGs come from any camera. My tests on other cameras that were sold in versions both with and without these filters (very slight difference between Nikon D800 and D800E and no visible difference between Canon 5DS and 5DSR) has shown little to no difference even when camera makers charge for taking out the filter, so don't worry about it."


This SONY A7III would be my choice, but I hear that it has still an AA filter - a fact if true that definitely turns me 100 percent off. Anybody can confirm if it has an AA filter or not?
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
The XTrans sensor is precisely the reason why I'd never buy a Fuji again.

Not all innovative ideas are actually successful. Better results with much more consistent image processing options are to be had from nearly any other current sensor on the market, IMO.

It's not you, Rayyan.

G
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Not all innovative ideas are actually successful. Better results with much more consistent image processing options are to be had from nearly any other current sensor on the market, IMO.
G
Although I see it a bit different (as I never had issues with X-Trans) I need to agree on the ideas part - but not on the second part ....

But what do I know ;)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Fuji digital small sensor cameras with "special" sensors have always had problems with repeated small detail, like in foliage and hair. It's clearly not their priority. Colours are, and the total impression an image gives seen from a normal viewing distance. I believe it's a processing problem as much as it is a sensor problem. There's simply not enough processing power available to render all the fine detail correctly.

Interestingly, early m4/3 cameras had a similar problem when lenses needing extensive in-camera distortion correction were used. I saw it with the GH1/2/3 when using the Pana 7-14mm, a lens that is more or less a fisheye zoom corrected by in-camera software (uncorrected, that lens shows a distortion of 5.2% at 7mm), on foliage, where areas of the image could suddenly look "mushy". The lens was perfectly sharp when there wasn't too much detail and with the newer cameras, there are no problems at all.

Since some Fuji lenses, typically wide-angle zooms, are probably also heavily corrected in-camera, my guess is that the problem is more prominent with those lenses than with a macro or a telephoto prime. It would be interesting to see a test of this.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
This SONY A7III would be my choice, but I hear that it has still an AA filter - a fact if true that definitely turns me 100 percent off. Anybody can confirm if it has an AA filter or not?
Dpreview claims that there is one and it is quite weak.

You may also be interested in the Rx1R II. It has one but it is tunable. None or weak or high.
 

Norm N

Member
This is a very interesting discussion, and one that I have a horse in, since I sold my K1 to fund the purchase of an X-H1. (Which I received yesterday.) How will the X-H1 do for landscape? I don't know yet, and I very much respect Ray Yan's opinion. Here is a Photo:

WhiteHouseDNG-2631.jpg

This was taken with an X-E3 and the 16-50mm (cheapo) zoom lens. I am a Fuji fan, and appreciate the quality of their color science and the filmic look of the files. This photo has a lot of foliage. The question is, is it good enough? I've sharpened about as far as i can go with this particular photo. I could go further with a landscape photo. I'll post another photo soon looking into the mid-distance foliage.
 

Norm N

Member
An area of the foliage:

WhiteHouseDNG-2631-2.jpg

So we can see into the foliage now. The original photo was post processed from raw with the current version of LR. I admit to making the house little edgier than I would normally do. The X-H1 is now my do everything camera. One of the first outings will be for landscape.

Comments appreciated.

Norm
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Hard to say if green foliage would be reproduced better with another camera - needs actually a side by side comparison.

If I am really picky - greens are difficult to reproduce for most sensors (cameras) I used. I had difficulties with the D800E, not so much with the D810, the Sony A900 many years back, but also with the Olympus Em1.1 and EM1.2.

IMHO the Fuji X-Trans results do not stand out in either way .... at least for me.

Just my 5c.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Folks, I would like to than each and everyone of you for your informed, experienced and expert thoughts.
I respect the knowledge and in-field experience of the posters that have responded.

Thanks :salute:

I am learning a lot from this discussion...


.raf image converted through to .jpg, cropped and saved at maximum quality. I used ACR, Iridient transformer, Ci pro 11.? with all settings turned off. I also compared with in camera .jpg file.
The above file is very approximately what I captured.

Am I seeing things that don't exist? I have actually processed this file multiple times thru the raw processors I have, including Exposure X3. Still I am seeing things!

Thanks once again for your kind and valued inputs.

p.s. I even thought of cloud formation interferences!!

link to the raw...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu4z6263k05kex6/Getdpi-1.RAF?dl=0
 

Norm N

Member
Rayyan thank you for making the raw of your Philippines landscape available. Here are the results of my sharpening using only the current version of LR:

RayyanLndScp-1.jpg

RayyanLndScpPt2-1.jpg

To tell you the truth, I was, to use the English phrase, Gobsmacked, by the quality and detail of the greens, and the overall level of detail from a 24 megapixel camera. Since our two files look quite similar, your standards must be very high indeed.

Norm
 
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