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Thread: The Capture One Conundrum

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    The Capture One Conundrum

    This comes up regularly in forums and YouTube. I know it sounds like the title for a 'Big Bang' episode but it is one that interests/concerns me as a Fuji user.

    The conundrum is whether as a long-time, skills-invested user of Lightroom (in my case since the free beta version) I should convert or use alongside, Capture One.

    The conundrum has resurfaced in the recent YouTube video by Thomas Heaton, a well followed and somewhat respected 'phoblographer' who has added an X-T3 to his equipment. Like me he is a long-time Lightroom user and also like me, reluctant to change to a new raw processor.

    https://youtu.be/Q9DGXOZOWi0

    See from 14 minutes onwards.

    In his video he is surprised/concerned/impressed that the same landscape shot processed in C1 is vastly improved compared to LR.

    Simple questions: (a) has anyone here moved from LR to C1 (recently) and did they find it worthwhile? (b) I am using both an X-T3 and 50R, is C1 good for both cameras?

    LouisB

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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Question (b): I'm a long time C1 user, never used the Adobe stuff. I think it's fantastic for the 50R. I spent a little over a month in Japan recently with the 50R and I was really stoked with the image quality C1 delivered. I wouldn't even think of changing.

    As for the XT-3...I've never used one, and indeed I'm on my first week of a digital camera with a sensor smaller than the 50R...the XPro3 - so same sensor and same CPU. The jury is still out, however I think that's a combination of my skills, my expectations and the sensor-RAW processor interaction. We'll see over the next couple of weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    [snip]

    Simple questions: (a) has anyone here moved from LR to C1 (recently) and did they find it worthwhile? (b) I am using both an X-T3 and 50R, is C1 good for both cameras?

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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    I use C1 "alongside" Lightroom but mainly for the colour controls on some images with bright reds, greens, yellows or blues. There I find C1 can achieve a better results with better detail separation near the gamut boundaries than I can achieve in Lightroom. Don't know if it's my skills or inherent to the programs. Looking at the video I can see what he is saying but in my opinion a bit more work on the noise reduction/sharpening/detail sliders can bring that Lightroom image a lot closer to the one in C1. Obviously hard to prove and my experience is only on Sony files, so I might be totally wrong.

    For me the main reason to stay with Lightroom (also there since the free Beta) is that I find the whole DAM aspect (Digital Asset Management) aspect of Lightroom so much better than C1. I find C1 less user friendly, has less features and more "buggy" when organising my shots. I wouldn't want to be without C1 for some images but all my images are in Lightroom as a database. C1 for me is just a second raw converter which I would not want to be without but it's not going to be my "end all" solution any time soon.
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Louis,

    Re: Thomas heaton’s video...the monkey image was better with Lightroom!

    What’s that British expression...some of this and some of that!

    The enhanced detail slider in LR is a significant addition.

    The landscape image of Heaton or Andy Mumford can easily be handled well with either sw.
    Seascapes and mountain scapes don’t pose any issue re: converters.
    Or desert scapes for that matter.

    It is only with foliage, I notice C1 to be better.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Louis I think C1 does a better job with colour and starting ICC profiles it applies to camera RAWs. C1 also has its version of layers whereas LR doesn't have any version - for stuff I'm going to print or will be printed by someone - I still need to use Photoshop.

    I think LR ( generally speaking) has better file management - C1's Catalogue and Session choices make it somewhat confusing to new users ( like me) - it is easy to get lost in file management with C1 - it will pay dividends to get on top of all the requirements for good working practise before you get too ambitious - I've wasted a lot of time and energy with C1 - because I was not aware of how one should actually use C1 to import and manage files - I would go so far as to say that company's literature on this important aspect is - poor - file management isn't as easy as their youtube videos suggest - far from it.

    All that aside- I do think C1 is a better raw processor and for a lot of work makes PS - redundant. However Adobe is a bigger company and that might speak to longer term lower risk - or not. I have decided to minimise the risk I take with either of these processors by keeping to a very strict import edit export finished tiff and JPEG File routine - and minimise my dependance on proprietary databases to keep edits and all that stuff- both companies have bugs in their file management routines.
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    There is no such thing as a picture which is great processed in C1, but bad in LR/PS, or vice-versa.

    Having said that, I would use C1 almost exclusively if it a) had a decent DAM and b) supported all cameras and not "everything except the Leica S, Pentax 645, or Hasselblad". Especially since they now support MF Fuji, it's a capricious position which prevents them from being the one-stop-shop. If you never intend to have any "forbidden" pictures, you may not care. I have a few 10's of thousands, so it's annoying.

    The default settings and, more importantly, the range of the controls are quite different between the two systems. I can create a dramatic BW conversion much more easily in LR. I can correct color much more easily in C1.

    Printing and available plugins is another subject altogether.

    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 22nd December 2019 at 12:46.
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    I have used Capture One, Lightroom nd Photoshop for many many years
    My images are stored on external HD as folders by Overall Category/Subfolders by subject/date can be quite complex.

    Handled perfectly by Lightroom and in Capture One Pro 20 with the following comments:
    Synchronizing in Lightroom is more dependable and consistant as well as easier to use than in LR
    I find filtering clearer and better in Capture One.
    I have not yet switched to Capture One as my DAM so I still use LR as my go to catalog and have a Capture One Catalog running parallel to see how dependable it ia

    Sessions work very well for assignments and shoots and can be imported into the Catalog in Capture One

    Raw file development is much better in Capture One 20 than in Lightroom and that applies not only to color editing but also to highlight/shadow/black and white, sharpening and noise reduction, curves and levels and the use of Layers for all the above as well as cloning and healing layers.

    I find the Print Module in Lightroom excellent, easy to use with many possibilities and handling custom profiles which I make perfectly. Results match screen brilliantly.

    I also use the book module in LR to quickly produce and print books.

    Sorry for this long and rambling post which I now realize adds nothing to the discussion.
    maurice da silva solis
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by archiM44 View Post
    I have used Capture One, Lightroom nd Photoshop for many many years
    My images are stored on external HD as folders by Overall Category/Subfolders by subject/date can be quite complex.

    Handled perfectly by Lightroom and in Capture One Pro 20 with the following comments:
    Synchronizing in Lightroom is more dependable and consistant as well as easier to use than in LR
    I find filtering clearer and better in Capture One.
    I have not yet switched to Capture One as my DAM so I still use LR as my go to catalog and have a Capture One Catalog running parallel to see how dependable it ia

    Sessions work very well for assignments and shoots and can be imported into the Catalog in Capture One

    Raw file development is much better in Capture One 20 than in Lightroom and that applies not only to color editing but also to highlight/shadow/black and white, sharpening and noise reduction, curves and levels and the use of Layers for all the above as well as cloning and healing layers.

    I find the Print Module in Lightroom excellent, easy to use with many possibilities and handling custom profiles which I make perfectly. Results match screen brilliantly.

    I also use the book module in LR to quickly produce and print books.

    Sorry for this long and rambling post which I now realize adds nothing to the discussion.
    Interesting how you have decided to store original files by Subject matter rather than date - I like the idea. One 'bug' I've discovered in C1 as DAM is that C1 does not like an empty folder at the top of the tree....

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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Interesting how you have decided to store original files by Subject matter rather than date - I like the idea. One 'bug' I've discovered in C1 as DAM is that C1 does not like an empty folder at the top of the tree....
    I have changed my filing system over the last years to subject matter bcause it worked better for me and Lightroom handles it pergectly when importing from a card.
    If I choose the correct subject subfolder, then LR places it in the correct date.
    example is
    URBAN/Cities and towns/subfolder for each city or town/dates
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Very interesting, all these different ways to achieve the same end-goal, which for us all is finding back the needles in the haystack (in my case a haystack of > 70 k images)
    You always learn new things when you see how others work.

    I've chosen a different filing system which I now have in place since 2006 from when I had my first DSLR and still works well.
    I import (via Lightroom) directly from the card in a folder system which is organised by year/camera/month
    And then subject matter/place/names of people in the shot etc. I handle with keywords
    Longer vacations or more extensive trips/shoots as well as "projects" get their own collection.
    Also the shots I process in C1 go into a collection, so I can easily see that the Lightroom version is not the final edit.

    If I want to search by date I use the library metadata filters, so I see everything taken that date with any camera.
    I also use a lot of manual lenses that don't report to the exif, so all shots where that happens also get a keyword indicating the lens.

    As long as you make all file moves within Lightroom I've not experienced any bugs or had the need for synchronising folders.
    Only time I use the "synchronise folder" command is when I have accidentally deleted or removed images from the database.
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by archiM44 View Post
    I have changed my filing system over the last years to subject matter bcause it worked better for me and Lightroom handles it pergectly when importing from a card.
    If I choose the correct subject subfolder, then LR places it in the correct date.
    example is
    URBAN/Cities and towns/subfolder for each city or town/dates
    and then LR Classic CC has to suddenly update my catalogues and 'poof' all files within each Catalogue are misplaced 20 yrs worth.....

    My 'solution' is now to avoid totally reliance on these amateurish databases which ( both) are imperfect ....by

    1. Raw files
    2. PP = Raw File COnversion > any post processing > save as TIFF and various JPEG into seperate finished fie system

    3. use LR / C1 DAM on just ONE catalogue which is easily replicated ....

    The problem with C1 highlighted above is it only accepts Phase One and Fuji MF raw files.....I have thousands of Hasselblad FFF files...

    On the one hand I dont trust Adobe and on the other C1 is a small company with limitations on what it can and can't do...

    Every other program people mention is a toy in comparison to Photoshop.
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    and then LR Classic CC has to suddenly update my catalogues and 'poof' all files within each Catalogue are misplaced 20 yrs worth.....
    Wow, that's a big bug . Anything on that on the Adobe Lightroom forums? I can't imagine you're the only one experiencing that. I'm actually fortunate I'm stuck on 6.14 at the moment, no updates that create havoc like this.

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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    As a side, ON1 does a lovely job with X-Trans sensors. Try the free trial and give it a go.

    HTH,

    Joel

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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    I've tried LR several times and just never like it. That said I've been using Photoshop since around ver 2 or 3. I am also using C1-12 since they began supporting 64bit and now open everything first in it. I do over 50% of post in C1 before sending it to PCSS where I finish the files there. I've stopped using Phase One several years ago and now use Fuji (first the GFX50 and now the GFX100 and recently the XT3. Sandy uses a Sony and is now up to the A7rIV. I've found using the combination of C1 and PSCC enjoyable.
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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    I only use C1 and never Lightroom. I absolutely hate Lightroom's forced cataloging

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    Re: The Capture One Conundrum

    For the OP, this interesting post popped up today at FredMiranda: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1627989
    I haven't tried the script myself because I'm a happy Lightroom user, but for someone invested in LR who wants to try editing in C1, it might be worth a shot.

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