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Thread: Xt-4

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    Re: Xt-4

    I'm surprised to see it still has a D-Pad.

    Neil

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Rumors
    It remains the best looking SLR styled mirrorless camera on the market!
    how can a new camera that isn't even out yet remain the best looking .......
    And I'm not even complaining about the highly subjective nature of the statement

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    how can a new camera that isn't even out yet remain the best looking .......
    And I'm not even complaining about the highly subjective nature of the statement
    I agree, sloppy writing and logic. I assume they are referring to the XT series as a whole that have very common styling.
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    Re: Xt-4

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/26/2...ation-vlogging

    "This is the camera that Fuji fans have been waiting for."

    Not all Fuji fans. Is this the death knell for a X-H2?

    Gary
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    Re: Xt-4

    All the details are now out including a preview by Chris and Jordan at Dpreview.

    https://youtu.be/C2qIyjEuRhU

    I really do think that Fuji have a winner here. I'd even say they are in a position to displace the dominance of the GH5/G9 from Panasonic in the video arena.

    I often get asked what camera I recommend to people wanting to migrate from an enthusiast camera or smartphone to something more serious and I've always hesitated in the past to recommend Fuji because of things like the battery life and lack of IBIS but now I would feel a lot more confident to recommend the X-T4.

    The only negative thing I can say from what I've seen so far is that the changes for an existing X-T3 user like me are not compelling enough to immediately migrate. I'll definitely want to handle one before ever making a commitment because I am intrigued to see if in the hand it makes the X-H1 (and by definition a future X-H2) more or less attractive.

    I just hope this is a roaring success for Fuji because it protects existing users future with the camera company and I also hope some of the firmware attributes will find their way into the existing X-T3.

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/26/2...ation-vlogging

    "This is the camera that Fuji fans have been waiting for."

    Not all Fuji fans. Is this the death knell for a X-H2?

    Gary
    I don't think the chances of an X-H2 have diminished. They have taken away the headphone jack, many of the exposure tools that Panasonic offers are lacking etc. My guess is that the X-H2 will be higher end than the X-H1 was.

    It's a very interesting camera. For me, the question now will be what the next Panasonic(s) will look like. The GH5 is 3 years old.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Well my XT-3 has the same processor and chip as the XT-4 and a lot of improvement in XT-4 are as much (if not more) video related inclding IBIS /longer life batteries a teh cost of a larbger body...I have no interest in video and IBIS on 26MP (for me) is not a big deal since I shoot with the 16/1.4 mostly...

    What IS very exciting is the firmware update that sees two things of particular interest to me :

    1. better autofocus including eye detection; and
    2. camera processed TIFF files which is a huge thing (for me) since that means FUJI's ACTUAL film emulations can be transferred into PP - instead of LR and C1's "best attempts at replication" of the film emulations....in a better than JPG file format.

    Now the 'test' will be whether Fuji actually provides the firmware major upgrade to XT-3 owners - if they don't that will be a major shift away from user friendliness and customer care - since that is the 'promise' that has been consistently marketed to Fuji users - constant and meaningful updates to camera. TBH - I am not that confident that they will.

    In this context, it will be interesting how Fuji also handles the GFX100 firmware update with regards to these things as well since the GFX also shares the same processor if not chip...if they can improve autofocus in the GFX series cameras ( especially the GFX100) - that will push them even further ahead of any competition.

    re the XH-2 - I suspect that the next iteration probably next year- will house a totally new chip/processor combination - they really goofed releasing the XT-3 with 'better stuff' for video makers...ahead of the XH-2...
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    Re: Xt-4

    One other point worth making with respect to the new battery is one can finally say goodbye to the optional battery grip. I rarely if ever use it on my X-T3 as it is not needed for boost mode but I do have to keep a keen eye on the battery usage and I am adept now at fast battery changes! Without a battery grip as a wildlife camera the whole system is a lot lighter and easier to walk with.

    LouisB

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    Re: Xt-4

    This looks like a more or less ideal camera for me, and probably many other travel photographers:

    - IBIS
    - Good battery capacity, with up to 3 batteries onboard
    - Dual battery charger (very convenient when travelling since charging time is often limited)
    - Great video
    - Fully articulated LCD
    - Etc.

    Panasonic will have to come up with a very special replacement for the GH5/G9 to compete. My dilemma will be all the great MFT lenses for sale at low prices locally. I suspect that those are from photographers who have anticipated this camera and are changing from MFT to Fuji.

    Here's Mr. Rask, my favourite Fuji photographer:

    https://jonasraskphotography.com/202...chnical-bliss/

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    Re: Xt-4

    I'm a bit like you on this Peter. I really want the better autofocus algorithms. I can't see the business case for Fuji upgrading the XT-3 - this is the replacement after all. However I'm hoping that the X-Pro 3 gets the updates - it's new, it's a parallel camera line for them and they must still need it to succeed in the market. Here's hoping!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    [snip]
    What IS very exciting is the firmware update that sees two things of particular interest to me :

    1. better autofocus including eye detection; and
    2. camera processed TIFF files which is a huge thing (for me) since that means FUJI's ACTUAL film emulations can be transferred into PP - instead of LR and C1's "best attempts at replication" of the film emulations....in a better than JPG file format.

    Now the 'test' will be whether Fuji actually provides the firmware major upgrade to XT-3 owners - if they don't that will be a major shift away from user friendliness and customer care - since that is the 'promise' that has been consistently marketed to Fuji users - constant and meaningful updates to camera. TBH - I am not that confident that they will.

    [snip]

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    I'm a bit like you on this Peter. I really want the better autofocus algorithms. I can't see the business case for Fuji upgrading the XT-3 - this is the replacement after all. However I'm hoping that the X-Pro 3 gets the updates - it's new, it's a parallel camera line for them and they must still need it to succeed in the market. Here's hoping!
    Well the business case (as I've suggested) was actually made by Fuji themselves- firmware upgradeable cameras that . were actually improved in functionality - I think this kind of stuff used to be called 'customer service'. Lets see what they do or don't do - will be a significant test AFAIC - I've become a modern customer - they get one chance to fail and then poof bye bye Pete
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    Re: Xt-4

    Looks great except I don't like the flippy screen. Keeping the X-T3

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Looks great except I don't like the flippy screen. Keeping the X-T3
    Which is one reason why they will probably present as many improvements of the X-T3 as possible with firmware upgrades. They know that many don't like the fully articulated screen. The X-T3 might continue together with the X-T4 until the X-T5 or something else is released.

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    Re: Xt-4

    In camera 16 bit tiffs? I've done a few in my Pro3. 161mb files!!!! And to be able to keep Fuji's in camera implementations of profiles and Clarity etc, very cool. Very LARGE.

    There a a few Xt-4 things I hope jump to the Pro3. I would guess what the add to the Xt-3 would/should be less extensive bumps than that what the Pro3 gets. Gotta keep the food chain in order ya'know.

    Neil

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    2. camera processed TIFF files which is a huge thing (for me) since that means FUJI's ACTUAL film emulations can be transferred into PP - instead of LR and C1's "best attempts at replication" of the film emulations....in a better than JPG file format.
    I agree, and it would be a huge thing for me too. Although the WB adjustments options would be limited in ACR, I'll be very interested in trying to process a few of those TIFF files to see what is possible to get out of them. I'm currently working on medium format film (Ektar) scanned to TIFF, and I'm surprised how much leeway I have, particularly with regards to shadow detail and colour information. It's a totaly different animal compared to jpeg.

    As for file size, memory is cheap, and TIFF is mostly easier for the computer to process since there's no compression to handle.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by neilss View Post
    In camera 16 bit tiffs? I've done a few in my Pro3. 161mb files!!!! And to be able to keep Fuji's in camera implementations of profiles and Clarity etc, very cool. Very LARGE.

    There a a few Xt-4 things I hope jump to the Pro3. I would guess what the add to the Xt-3 would/should be less extensive bumps than that what the Pro3 gets. Gotta keep the food chain in order ya'know.

    Neil
    Well 'food chain' wasn't part of Fuji's promise and I am not a buyer of the argument either. The XT-3 has the same chip and processor as the XPro-3 and XT-4 - no excuses Fuji. Actually I am really happy to be in the position - because I haven't over invested in Fuji X and have deliberately held off after seeing their goof up with XH-1 - won't take much for me to exit - i've got too may cameras as it is.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This looks like a more or less ideal camera for me, and probably many other travel photographers:

    - IBIS
    - Good battery capacity, with up to 3 batteries onboard
    - Dual battery charger (very convenient when travelling since charging time is often limited)
    - Great video
    - Fully articulated LCD
    - Etc.

    Panasonic will have to come up with a very special replacement for the GH5/G9 to compete. My dilemma will be all the great MFT lenses for sale at low prices locally. I suspect that those are from photographers who have anticipated this camera and are changing from MFT to Fuji.

    Here's Mr. Rask, my favourite Fuji photographer:

    https://jonasraskphotography.com/202...chnical-bliss/
    All welcome upgrades in the X-T4 and I would have liked to see them much sooner -maybe with the x-T3.

    Now I am heavily invested in m43 and the used prices of this system are pretty down - you get €420.- for a good second hand EM1.2 - official Olympus price for taking the camera back, which they do in Europe.

    WRT X-T4 - I see this X system meanwhile pretty problematic because one can get FF for around €1900.- - Sony A73, Nikon Z6 or even Canon R. So hard to decide to get into APSC today, especially since great new FF glass is also available for interesting prices (except Canon RF).

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    Now I am heavily invested in m43 and the used prices of this system are pretty down - you get €420.- for a good second hand EM1.2 - official Olympus price for taking the camera back, which they do in Europe.

    WRT X-T4 - I see this X system meanwhile pretty problematic because one can get FF for around €1900.- - Sony A73, Nikon Z6 or even Canon R. So hard to decide to get into APSC today, especially since great new FF glass is also available for interesting prices (except Canon RF).
    With the Fuji X-T4, the Nikon Z6 and the Olympus EM1.3 bodies all at about the same price, size and weight,
    I cannot see much of a reason (if starting from scratch) to buy into anything else either than a FF body.

    BUT ...... MY dilemma for travel, is that I want to travel light and I also want to carry a long zoom .

    IIRC in the UK, a store was offering 600 in p/ex for the EM1.2. But that's still a 1000 difference for the joy of a joystick .
    Ian.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    With the Fuji X-T4, the Nikon Z6 and the Olympus EM1.3 bodies all at about the same price, size and weight,
    I cannot see much of a reason (if starting from scratch) to buy into anything else either than a FF body.

    BUT ...... MY dilemma for travel, is that I want to travel light and I also want to carry a long zoom .

    IIRC in the UK, a store was offering 600 in p/ex for the EM1.2. But that's still a 1000 difference for the joy of a joystick .
    To be honest I do no longer see much reason why to buy into any crop sensor camera at the current prices. Think about Z6 that has a MUCH better high ISO performance than any crop sensor camera and add that kit zoom 4/24-70 and you have a pretty light travel combo for around €2000.- Even WRT DOF the FF sensor wins at F4 compared to a Olympus 2.8/12-40 that results in best case as F5.6 and for the Fuji 2.8/16-55 it is something about F4 equivalent. And you always can crank up the ISO of the Z6 without any issue up to ISO 25000 and still get better noise than the crop counterparts.

    Long telezoom - for travel - there is that new Nikon Z 24-200/F4-6.3 VR .... that sounds really great and should solve lot of your problems and is a decent priced lens as well.

    I also think that crop sensors are currently at the edge of what can be achieved with resolution as well as DR and high ISO. A 24MP FF sensor is lightyears above all these sensors and hence another killing argument for me to go with anything crop.
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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Looks great except I don't like the flippy screen. Keeping the X-T3
    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    To be honest I do no longer see much reason why to buy into any crop sensor camera at the current prices.
    All down to personal preference. I really miss the flippy screen I had on the G9. So, a winner for me.

    I agree about the apparent better value of the Nikon FF system. HOWEVER like many Fuji users I am so heavily invested in glass now that to go to another system is a bind.

    As you know, I have been very tempted by the the Z6+pf500 for wildlife. I am still thinking about it. More so that the Olympus EM1X+300/4. I've looked at a lot of work with the Oly and it just about matches the X-T3 up to about iso1600 but not beyond. I regularly shoot the X-T3 at iso6400 for wildlife and pull out great photos.

    To protect my investment in Fuji I really need a cheaper alternative to the ridiculously priced 200/2, e.g. 300/4. I just hope this is one of the 3 lenses that Fuji are teasing us about adding to their roadmap.

    Incidentally, if you order the X-T3 in the UK, you can claim GBP500 off the 200/2. But we're still taking about an outlay of about GBP6400. For that kind of cost the Z6+pf500 is a frickin' bargain!

    Just my two cents

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    All down to personal preference. I really miss the flippy screen I had on the G9. So, a winner for me.

    I agree about the apparent better value of the Nikon FF system. HOWEVER like many Fuji users I am so heavily invested in glass now that to go to another system is a bind.

    As you know, I have been very tempted by the the Z6+pf500 for wildlife. I am still thinking about it. More so that the Olympus EM1X+300/4. I've looked at a lot of work with the Oly and it just about matches the X-T3 up to about iso1600 but not beyond. I regularly shoot the X-T3 at iso6400 for wildlife and pull out great photos.

    To protect my investment in Fuji I really need a cheaper alternative to the ridiculously priced 200/2, e.g. 300/4. I just hope this is one of the 3 lenses that Fuji are teasing us about adding to their roadmap.

    Incidentally, if you order the X-T3 in the UK, you can claim GBP500 off the 200/2. But we're still taking about an outlay of about GBP6400. For that kind of cost the Z6+pf500 is a frickin' bargain!

    Just my two cents

    LouisB
    I still would go with the 100-400 if I were you. I know you did not like this lens but for me it worked miracles even and especially at the long end with my X-T2.

    As you mention price of the complete system might be the only reason to go for either m43 or X system compared to FF. As soon as one starts lusting after long zoom capable FF lenses it soon gets pretty expensive.

    But for me, I could just add the EM1.3 to my existing m43 glass and call it a day - maybe I will even do so. But then I start calculating how much more I could get if I invest into Nikon FF Z system with current prices I am getting hesitant again to invest into smaller sensors any further. As I said earlier, if the X-T3 had IBIS and longer battery life when it came out it would have been a no brainer for me, but meanwhile the photography landscape changed significantly making decisions to stay in crop sensor land much harder - at least for me.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Peter

    I agree. We are both invested in different systems and while the grass may seem greener somewhere else the fact is that for most practical purposes either of our systems will work fine.

    As you know, I only reluctantly moved from m43rds because the Panasonic DFD system (which users of the new FF Pannys are now discovering is sub-par) was pretty much useless for moving wildlife. The Fuji is streets better and it now sounds like the X-T4 improves on that. I suspect side-by-side it is only at the top end of iso (e.g. 3200+) that the Fuji has an edge over the new 1.3 or the EM1X.

    Louis

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    With the Fuji X-T4, the Nikon Z6 and the Olympus EM1.3 bodies all at about the same price, size and weight,
    I cannot see much of a reason (if starting from scratch) to buy into anything else either than a FF body.
    Are the systems the same size, price, and weight? What lenses would you buy?

    And the most important reason - which one do you like using?

    Matt

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Are the systems the same size, price, and weight? What lenses would you buy?

    And the most important reason - which one do you like using?

    Matt
    Those are my two lemmas; as I have already said: "MY dilemma for travel, is that I want to travel light and I also want to carry a long zoom".

    but importantly finding out which systems I like using, without comparative commitment is not easy.

    I spent about 30 years as a pro lugging about the most ridiculous amount of equipment and when I retired,
    micro four thirds suited me down to the ground, it was an easy decision, it was as far away from my paid photography as I wanted to go.

    But now, the rise of mirrorless into other larger formats has narrowed the size/weight gap and opened up these choices for me,
    BUT I can't really justify a big spend getting it wrong, especially as cameras no longer earn me money - I have other expensive hobbies too (and it's SO nice not to have cupboards full of little used gear!).

    I have to wait anyway, as the XT-4 is not yet available and neither is the Nikon Z 24-200 which could directly replace my beloved 12-100 Olympus M4/3 travel lens.
    Ian.
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    Re: Xt-4

    When I don't take photos, particularly when sitting in front of a computer, I want a new camera. I want the latest, greatest, the X-T4, the Nikon D6 and the panasonic S1R. When I take photos, I couldn't care less. I use whatever I have, my GH1 still works fine, and I look at the photos and think that I have to improve... not my camera, but my eyes and my brain.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    When I don't take photos, particularly when sitting in front of a computer, I want a new camera. I want the latest, greatest, the X-T4, the Nikon D6 and the panasonic S1R. When I take photos, I couldn't care less. I use whatever I have, my GH1 still works fine, and I look at the photos and think that I have to improve... not my camera, but my eyes and my brain.
    I expected to be much more intrigued by that Fuji X-T4 - finally larger battery, IBIS and lot of other improvements .... but hey when I see that price and the price where other great FF mirrorless offerings are like Z6, A73 and EOS R then suddenly all of that excitement vanishes in a second.

    So here you have it, interesting camera, but I seem to be no longer interested in that all singing and dancing non-FF cameras (Olympus and m43 included) when there are these great FF offerings and prices. The price of that X-T4 should not have been over /$ 1500.-

    I think many will fell the same way and that might be the biggest danger for cropped sensor cameras and their manufacturers.
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    Re: Xt-4

    A camera body does not a system make.

    If you want to compare systems, pick what lenses you would want to use, and compare their total size, weight, and price. And even THEN, feeling in the hand will matter more.

    I'm using an X-H1. For everything except AF, it ticks all my boxes. Since I manually check the focus on anything static, the AF deficiencies don't kill it for me. The X-T4 is better on paper in every way, but if I don't like handling it, I won't upgrade. The lenses are a bigger investment than any one (or three) bodies.

    Matt
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    Re: Xt-4

    For me the big advantage of cropped sensors is especially in cases you want reach that a smaller sensor makes your lenses a lot smaller. Price of the body is not so relevant for me, it's more how easy the system is in use and to carry around. In the end don't we all spend too much money anyway on this hobby while it's actually about enjoying to go out and take photo's

    FF certainly has advantages especially when it comes to IQ and low light capabilities, but physics determines that for the same FOV the lenses are a lot bigger.

    In that regard the current Sony and Nikon mirrorless offerings with one mount for APS-C and FF have a little advantage in my mind, with one lens you get more reach when using the crop sensor while you still get some other FF advantages when that's not needed. Fuji, Canon and Panasonic also have different sensor sizes but different mounts between them. No problem if you're happy with one sensor size but less flexible in that regard.

    Still the XT-4 seems to be a very nice camera and a good further evolution for Fuji APS-C shooters.
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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    For me the big advantage of cropped sensors is especially in cases you want reach that a smaller sensor makes your lenses a lot smaller. Price of the body is not so relevant for me, it's more how easy the system is in use and to carry around. In the end don't we all spend too much money anyway on this hobby while it's actually about enjoying to go out and take photo's

    FF certainly has advantages especially when it comes to IQ and low light capabilities, but physics determines that for the same FOV the lenses are a lot bigger.

    In that regard the current Sony and Nikon mirrorless offerings with one mount for APS-C and FF have a little advantage in my mind, with one lens you get more reach when using the crop sensor while you still get some other FF advantages when that's not needed. Fuji, Canon and Panasonic also have different sensor sizes but different mounts between them. No problem if you're happy with one sensor size but less flexible in that regard.

    Still the XT-4 seems to be a very nice camera and a good further evolution for Fuji APS-C shooters.
    Well for reach I have Olympus m43 and BTW Olympus IBIS is still lightyears above Fuji

    So for me this latest Fuji offering does not look appealing and hence better move on to whatever kind of FF mirrorless. Time will tell

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    Re: Xt-4

    I agree Peter, being invested in Olympus M4/3 gives you reach at a reasonable size/weight.

    So if you don't mind to add a completely different system with its own set of lenses and a different mount for the FF IQ that's certainly a possibility.
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    Re: Xt-4

    Looks like a great camera for the average person that wants a system they won’t soon outgrow. There is a logical argument that APS-C provides the best balance between system size, weight, and performance. It’s not to say that FF isn’t potentially more capable for most but I’m not so sure it’s the answer for most any longer.

    Really the only thing I don’t care for in this camera is the articulating screen. I prefer the screen that Fuji has always used. I also prefer the body style of the XH1. Frankly if they would’ve introduced the XH1 in this price range with the updated video specs and fewer of the manufacturing issues - it would likely be the camera I recommended to most people that were concerned with size AND performance.
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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well for reach I have Olympus m43 and BTW Olympus IBIS is still lightyears above Fuji
    No, not apparently after X-T4.

    So for me this latest Fuji offering does not look appealing and hence better move on to whatever kind of FF mirrorless. Time will tell
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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    For me the big advantage of cropped sensors is especially in cases you want reach that a smaller sensor makes your lenses a lot smaller. Price of the body is not so relevant for me, it's more how easy the system is in use and to carry around. In the end don't we all spend too much money anyway on this hobby while it's actually about enjoying to go out and take photo's

    FF certainly has advantages especially when it comes to IQ and low light capabilities, but physics determines that for the same FOV the lenses are a lot bigger.

    In that regard the current Sony and Nikon mirrorless offerings with one mount for APS-C and FF have a little advantage in my mind, with one lens you get more reach when using the crop sensor while you still get some other FF advantages when that's not needed. Fuji, Canon and Panasonic also have different sensor sizes but different mounts between them. No problem if you're happy with one sensor size but less flexible in that regard.

    Still the XT-4 seems to be a very nice camera and a good further evolution for Fuji APS-C shooters.

    There's a huge overlap between Fuji and m43rds in size/weight on a range of popular focal lengths. From wide to about 100-120ish. It's in 150+ that m43rds still shows a clear advantage. but not anymore at the shorter focals.

    Check the Fuji small primes and compare. And all the Olympus F1.2 Pro primes that so many like for bokeh in m43rds are pretty big. AT that point you an compare with many Fuji primes.

    This is why I wanted both Olympus and Panasonic to keep the concept of a pro small m43rds camera alive. Olympus did a bit with the Em5.3 but really, we should be seen a "GM10" and a "semi-pro" EPL-11.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    No, not apparently after X-T4.



    - Ricardo
    Well I do not know what is really your reference point but in practical use and even on data sheet (6.5 stops versus 7.5 stops) Olympus IBIS is superior.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well I do not know what is really your reference point but in practical use and even on data sheet (6.5 stops versus 7.5 stops) Olympus IBIS is superior.
    Since IBIS is a statistical game and just increases the probability of a sharp shot the number on the spec sheet is irrelevant without quoting what percentage of sharp shots can still be expected. Maybe Olympus goes for 50% and Fuji 70%, or vice versa. Who knows but without testing the cameras in the same manner (the same hand) I think the difference between 6.5 stops and 7.5 stops on the specsheet is insignificant and I certainly would not call it "lightyears" difference.

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    Re: Xt-4

    ...
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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Since IBIS is a statistical game and just increases the probability of a sharp shot the number on the spec sheet is irrelevant without quoting what percentage of sharp shots can still be expected. Maybe Olympus goes for 50% and Fuji 70%, or vice versa. Who knows but without testing the cameras in the same manner (the same hand) I think the difference between 6.5 stops and 7.5 stops on the specsheet is insignificant and I certainly would not call it "lightyears" difference.
    Well, the knowledge how to build IBIS is still lightyears ahead when it comes to Olympus compared to all other brands. This was also acknowledged by almost all youtube videos about IBIS in different camera brands - so I believe the numbers are pretty correct.

    But of course you always can start by stating someone's opinion and knowledge is wrong and thus ignore reality. Anyway good luck with that.

    For me both - Olympus as well as Fuji have pretty much lost their credibility with that latest camera releases and according pricing - although I must admit Olympus much more compared to Fuji. But in both cases I had expected more (much more) that finally did not materialise. But then trying to sell these cameras at the current high price points is simply not serious. At least for me. So I sincerely suggest both should go back to the drawing boards and also rethink their pricing model in a world where FF mirrorless became as cheap and as portable as it is today.

    So finally it is not if Olympus or Fuji IBIS are better but that both companies are staring to p*** o** their clients and customers increasingly and this is what I hate. Hence I am looking elsewhere.

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    Re: Xt-4

    And as far as youtubes go, I usually don't find those very useful, too long and boring. I would much rather see a statistical relevant test that Jim Kasson did on a few cameras with IBIS a few years ago, but since those are not available for Olympus vs. Fuji I will believe your claim that Olympus has the best IBIS of all brands. However even if Olympus is 1 or even 2 stops better I'd leave it at that and wouldn't call it "lightyears" ahead. Maybe it's just me but I just don't like internet amplifications.
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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    And as far as youtubes go, I usually don't find those very useful, too long and boring. I would much rather see a statistical relevant test that Jim Kasson did on a few cameras with IBIS a few years ago, but since those are not available for Olympus vs. Fuji I will believe your claim that Olympus has the best IBIS of all brands. However even if Olympus is 1 or even 2 stops better I'd leave it at that and wouldn't call it "lightyears" ahead. Maybe it's just me but I just don't like internet amplifications.
    Well, you can call it what else you want, but having shot with Olympus for the past 10 years besides a number of other brands I do know that olympus is still leading in the IBIS area. What i really hate about all that buzz of IBIS in the X-T4 is that it is 3 years late IMO and that they are marketing it as the greatest invention ever - come on

    Ok I think we should leave it at this

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    What i really hate about all that buzz of IBIS in the X-T4 is that it is 3 years late IMO and that they are marketing it as the greatest invention ever - come on
    I agree, but I think that's not only a Fuji problem. If you read the Nikon and Canon marketing campaigns when they launched the Z and R series you might even start to believe that they invented Full Frame mirrorless

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    Re: Xt-4

    Well, now I need to revise my latest posts - just have seen this last video from Max Yuryev and he compares the IBIS of the X-T4 to A73 and Nikon Z6 - and guess what? The Fuji clearly wins.

    This does unfortunately not allow to see how the X-T4 compares to Olympus but I have to say now that Fuji obviously does a very nice job finally with IBIS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvytGuUEQeU&t=14s

    SO the X-T4 gets higher on my wish list again - never say never again
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    Re: Xt-4

    Well I've been reading along. I am not really the Xt4 customer at this time but hey, why not comment. Size vs FF options.......I've had Z6/7 cameras in hand and an XH1 is pretty much the same size as a friend who owns a Z7 can attest, that is until you add a lens. The F2 primes from Fuji obviously win here as I can load an XH or a Pro3 into my winter coat pocket with any of those primes fitted. The FF options are great till you add a lens. The Fuji gives you the option of using small lenses or the larger zooms and primes. A Z Nikon in my coat with a lens? Can't.

    I did a test shoot with the Z7 owning friend. We had his Z7, a rental Z6, my XH (no Pro3 released yet) and my D4S Nikon. I shot a portrait of him with each camera from ISO 200 to 25,600 (Fuji to 12,800). We lit the shot with an LED Godox head in a 30 year old Chimera bank.

    We used the default for each in LR. The defaults add some NR as ISO's climb it seemed but we left them on for the time being.

    The D4S crushed all for noise and crap at hi ISO's. Things got a little rough at ISO 25k but it was an easy cleanup and in the end looked like Extachrome 400 from years past, maybe. The Z6/7 were nearly identical at all ISO's so that was kind of a surprise. The XH1 was a real surprise. Where the D4 had zero color noise in the shadows the Z6/7 had plenty of noise, freakin rainbow of noise and the XH1 barely a hint of color noise. The Fuji looked better at 3200 than the Z6/7.

    Again this is the defaults that LR loads in on import. The Fuji wasn't without noise but it was Luminence not so much color.

    So that is kind of an overview of that test. For decades I made a living with my cameras and I owned and shot many formats. Back then the large cameras were (not counting 4x5) the medium formats. I also had Nikon and the Leica was the small go everywhere device. Now the Nikon is the large one and the Fuji the small one. The biggest reason I don't yet have a Z Nikon is it can't be small. I already have a Nikon that is large so why have another. Yes I am ignoring the vast difference between a D4S and a Z6 in theory and design. Plus my Z would have that adapter on most of the time making it all even bigger.

    Yes there may be less expensive more "feature" packed alternatives to the Fuji line. What good are they if they are large enough I don't take them out of the house enough?

    Neil
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    Re: Xt-4

    From the discussion above the only point I would pick up on is the comment that an advantage of the APS-C system and therefore Fuji is in lens size.

    In my experience this is quite variable. For example, the XF 23/2 is truly tiny and reminds me a great deal of my 35/2 Summicron. However, my XF 80 macro is a big lump of glass and very similar in size and heft to the Sony 90 macro which I thought ridiculously big on my Sony Alpha bodies.

    An even more dramatic comparison is the 100-400 which Matthieu Gasquet points out is not much lighter or smaller than the FF Canon 100-400.

    In fact, my GF 45/2.8 in weight is very similar to the XF 10-24 or XF 16/1.4 which means either it is a very light lens for an MF system or that the XF lenses are heavy.

    I prefer the Fuji system over my m43rds system that it replaced but the only truly compact, lightweight system is Panasonic or Olympus m43rds (or perhaps the Leica DRFs + lenses) if size/weight is a concern, imho.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I prefer the Fuji system over my m43rds system that it replaced but the only truly compact, lightweight system is Panasonic or Olympus m43rds (or perhaps the Leica DRFs + lenses) if size/weight is a concern, imho.

    LouisB
    This is exactly the reason why I still stay in m43 and will most likely update to the EM1.3 (you note the special wording - update instead of upgrade as I feel it is more an update) and continue using this system.

    But what I most probably will do is to add some FF mirrorless body (system) with selected lenses as soon as I can get hold of a great offer - most likely Nikon or Canon form what I can see today and what directions these 2 are evolving their mirrorless systems.

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    Re: Xt-4

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    An even more dramatic comparison is the 100-400 which Matthieu Gasquet points out is not much lighter or smaller than the FF Canon 100-400.
    Only comment I would make is that I think to do a fair comparison you should really look at equivalent "field of view" or reach. So the Fuji APS-C100-400 should really be compared sizewise with a FF Canon 150-600 (don't know if such a lens exists) or alternatively the FF Canon 100-400 should be compared with something like a Fuji APS-C 70-300.
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    Re: Xt-4

    Hmmm...

    All I can say is I am waiting for a quantum physicist to measure the force fields between the up/down quarks or whatever between these 3 compared cameras’ photons to allow me to determine which is better!

    Till that time, I shall reserve judgment as I only print at A3 maximum and view on screen at a max mag of 50%.

    Of course, with the usual caveat that YYMV.

    Get ‘ Real ‘ folks!

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    Re: Xt-4

    Oh it's very true that some Fuji lenses are large. Some of the large ones I want. The 50-140 is superb, the 90 is great. They are almost DSLR large. But I have the option with the Fuji of the 23/35/50 tiny lens set. I HAVE that option. The other systems?, my Nikon?, no such option. As I said the Fuji mi my instance is supposed to be the small system.

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