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FS Hasselblad H3DII-39

fotografz

Well-known member
Or read before buying....
Actually, there IS some wisdom in this as a cautionary tale.

While I do not agree that the reason NOT to buy this very expensive MF digital equipment is that it somehow affects creativity ... there are considerations to be made before entering the "arms race" that permeates the category. This is not the same cost as 35mm digital leap frogs in technology.

If you delight in having the biggest and baddest MFD gear without a ROI, you WILL go broke at some point unless you have endless discretionary wealth.

IMO, you just can't bring a truck driver's appetite to the gourmet MFD restaurant. And this forum IS the restaurant ... where ALL of it is displayed in one place ... with advocates for each one, and beautiful results displayed daily.

Personally, when some new MFD development strikes my fancy, and I rationally know that I really don't need it, I sometimes bleed the desire by adding to my studio capabilities. First off, it eliminates a portion of the investment cash I may have ... making it impossible to get the latest thing announced ;) And lighting tools last in terms of functionality ... I still have lights I bought well over a decade ago that are still in service.:thumbup:

As example, consider that for the price of one exotic MF AF lens for a Hy6, or H3D, or even now some Mamiya 645 digital glass, you can buy a nifty professional lighting kit (not that studio lighting is for everyone, it's just an example.) I'd venture to say that something like this ...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/482380-REG/Hensel_7023512_Pro_Mini_1200AS_Generator.html

Or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/239611-REG/Profoto_501_031_Acute_2R_2_Head.html

Or this super deal:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/220652-REG/Dyna_Lite_M123E_PS_M123E_PS_Two_Pack_Three.html

... may have more of an impact on your photography, provide more new challenges to master, and yield expanded horizons ... than more megs, or yet another lens.

I've personally used every one of the systems listed above, and can assure you they will be around working when my current digital cameras are in the dust bin of history :D

Just a thought based on experience, and not meant to be a lecture in any way.
 

David K

Workshop Member
WOW - I go away for some business for a few days and come back to a thread like this!...I am so glad Jack put his point of view to you - you have just avoided a seriously bad case of WHIPLASH my friend.

Other's advice regarding doing some project work - paid or not is excellent.

Phew!

I just dropped my M8 onto a concrete pavement smashed the 35 lux i bought from you as well as the M8 itself - rangefinder totally stuffed, framelines stuffed top smashed in camera ..totaled - I laughed...I was glad I got a few precious shots of her with her father and my daughter having breakfast in a hippy joint in Canberra this morning!..

As my good wife said - that is the camera you used the most - and if you didnt use it it wouldn't have broken - so just get another one if you want to..

yeah she is a good girl -:) and no I dont think i will get 'another one'..but I figure the $10K I just totaled was money well spent.
Pete.
Ouch and double Ouch Peter. That really does suck and you have my condolences...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
As my good wife said - that is the camera you used the most - and if you didnt use it it wouldn't have broken - so just get another one if you want to..

and no I dont think i will get 'another one'..
Pete:

Just curious, but if it's the camera you used the most, and if it generated once in a lifetime memories, why on earth would you NOT get another one?

Cheers,
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Good question Jack!

If Leica ever bring out a nice full frame M digi - I will consider it as the only thing that bugged me about the M8 was crop factor. In the meantime, will keep shooting Leica M in film as I have a couple of MP bodies - also love shooting film on XPAN.

Tell you the truth - I don't have much interest in 35mm digi land. Sold my Canon and Leica R kits. Gave the D3 to my wife. Nothing against the cameras - just my Hasselblad kit does everything better.

Am thinking about a CFV11 kit - because I want to have a MF film body and I like the files that the fat boy pixel chip delivers- so a nice cheap back up system for around same cost as a new M8 and 35 lux replacement.

Any thoughts Jack?

Pete


















Pete:

Just curious, but if it's the camera you used the most, and if it generated once in a lifetime memories, why on earth would you NOT get another one?

Cheers,
 

woodyspedden

New member
WOW - I go away for some business for a few days and come back to a thread like this!...I am so glad Jack put his point of view to you - you have just avoided a seriously bad case of WHIPLASH my friend.

Other's advice regarding doing some project work - paid or not is excellent.

Phew!

I just dropped my M8 onto a concrete pavement smashed the 35 lux i bought from you as well as the M8 itself - rangefinder totally stuffed, framelines stuffed top smashed in camera ..totaled - I laughed...I was glad I got a few precious shots of her with her father and my daughter having breakfast in a hippy joint in Canberra this morning!..

As my good wife said - that is the camera you used the most - and if you didnt use it it wouldn't have broken - so just get another one if you want to..

yeah she is a good girl -:) and no I dont think i will get 'another one'..but I figure the $10K I just totaled was money well spent.
Pete.
Wow Peter

Sorry about your luck, especially as to the 35 Lux. This was apparently one of the few that did not have focus problems. Of course you can easily replace the M8 but finding another chrome silver 35 Lux that works correctly may be a lot more difficult.

Woody
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Any thoughts Jack?

Pete
Here are my thoughts...

I like the look of film, I have a nostalgic connection to it and I love using a view camera with movements. I don't even mind the workflow EXCEPT for the fact that having MF or LF film processed requires a custom lab, and almost all the custom labs have gone out of business, and the few that remain have priced themselves into the realm of artisan services.

That said, I keep a 35mm film scanner and a 35mm film body for when the nostalgic mood hits, and have a few film backs for my Mamiya AFD2 and 3 bodies. But even waiting the day for the one-hour lab to process the roll of 35 eats me up, as does not being able to change ISO or emulsion mid roll. Oh, and let's not forgert chimping :) (FWIW, I have sold my LF gear because of the time and processing costs.)

In the end, the 100% digital workflow is so convenient it's hard to ignore -- but no doubt, the entry costs can be high. The time-averaged costs are not much different than film though, so my thinking is digital is the way to go for those that can afford paying for it up front. OTOH, if one already has a wet darkroom, loves the medium and wants to continue to shoot it, I say good on them.

Now to you specifically, and you probably know where I'm going... Consider your total TIME investment, or more accurately, the value of it to you. Do you want to spend your free time scanning film, or processing the files you had more time to shoot? You want to shoot film, grab a 35 body or slap a film back on your MF rig.

As re 35 digi. I hear you, I can do everything I need to with MF and no longer own a DSLR either. But for travel or casual family outing shooting, MF is heavy, and I much carrying the tiny M8s and host (or few) of equally tiny lenses. (And the crop is irrelevant to me -- I wouldn't feed the need for a full-frame digi-M myself.) And of course if I still shot sports or wildlife, I'd own a DSLR and some long, fast glass -- but I don't.

Nuff said I suspect and only my .02 :D,
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Your logic is impeccable - ( being such similar thinkers on these matters of utility and time ) - but I feel like a rejected lover - dumped by an accident of fate and time - as well as the dicky Leica shoulder strap slipping and me seeing my M8 fall , crash, and then roll down a flight of concrete steps then over the side on to concrete pavement 10' below. It hurt!:cry::cry:

Would it be proper of me to replace her now so soon? Shouldn't I wait for a bigger busted longer legged better shutter and scratch proof glass version to come along? :bugeyes:all these thoughts cascading through my battered psyche - hence my current position - likely to change at any time.

However I hear the Siren song of a second digi backcalling - two sisters - CVF11 and P25+ calling to me through the crashing waves of my despair - wanting me to give them a twirl..

with apologies to Homer.:D
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Your logic is impeccable - ( being such similar thinkers on these matters of utility and time ) - but I feel like a rejected lover - dumped by an accident of fate and time - as well as the dicky Leica shoulder strap slipping and me seeing my M8 fall , crash, and then roll down a flight of concrete steps then over the side on to concrete pavement 10' below. It hurt!:cry::cry:

Would it be proper of me to replace her now so soon? Shouldn't I wait for a bigger busted longer legged better shutter and scratch proof glass version to come along? :bugeyes:all these thoughts cascading through my battered psyche - hence my current position - likely to change at any time.

However I hear the Siren song of a second digi backcalling - two sisters - CVF11 and P25+ calling to me through the crashing waves of my despair - wanting me to give them a twirl..

with apologies to Homer.:D
So buy my M8 I just listed here and wipe away your tears ;)
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
However I hear the Siren song of a second digi backcalling - two sisters - CVF11 and P25+ calling to me through the crashing waves of my despair - wanting me to give them a twirl..

with apologies to Homer.:D
TOO funny! :ROTFL:
~~~

Seriously, I think you can make a good case for those two digi backs AND an M8. Though I would get the P25+ and M8 first -- the M8 is still the more compact carry-around-at-family-events and travel camera -- then only add the CVF11 AFTER the P if you still really felt you needed it...

I actually pulled my second M8 body from the B&S because I decided I needed (wanted) two of them for travel. But that's me. And let's not forget you already have M glass and that's the hardest part of getting into the M... (And makes the second body seem economical :D)

Cheers,
 

woodyspedden

New member
Jack

I am basically with you on the M8 situation. You need two bodies so you are not constantly changing lenses, or you want one dedicated to color and the other to B&W, or you just realize that the M8 is a somewhat fragile beast and having a backup body is a really good thing. This from one who fried a shutter and now awaits the return of his beloved with bated breath. Sure wish I had my second body,(which I sold to TEBNewYork) so I was still able to shoot with this system. I think I will probably end up selling my D300 and my arsenal of Nikon lenses to get the second body and perhaps a new 35 1.4. We'll see.

Woody
 

woodyspedden

New member
Actually, there IS some wisdom in this as a cautionary tale.

While I do not agree that the reason NOT to buy this very expensive MF digital equipment is that it somehow affects creativity ... there are considerations to be made before entering the "arms race" that permeates the category. This is not the same cost as 35mm digital leap frogs in technology.

If you delight in having the biggest and baddest MFD gear without a ROI, you WILL go broke at some point unless you have endless discretionary wealth.

IMO, you just can't bring a truck driver's appetite to the gourmet MFD restaurant. And this forum IS the restaurant ... where ALL of it is displayed in one place ... with advocates for each one, and beautiful results displayed daily.

Personally, when some new MFD development strikes my fancy, and I rationally know that I really don't need it, I sometimes bleed the desire by adding to my studio capabilities. First off, it eliminates a portion of the investment cash I may have ... making it impossible to get the latest thing announced ;) And lighting tools last in terms of functionality ... I still have lights I bought well over a decade ago that are still in service.:thumbup:

As example, consider that for the price of one exotic MF AF lens for a Hy6, or H3D, or even now some Mamiya 645 digital glass, you can buy a nifty professional lighting kit (not that studio lighting is for everyone, it's just an example.) I'd venture to say that something like this ...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/482380-REG/Hensel_7023512_Pro_Mini_1200AS_Generator.html

Or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/239611-REG/Profoto_501_031_Acute_2R_2_Head.html

Or this super deal:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/220652-REG/Dyna_Lite_M123E_PS_M123E_PS_Two_Pack_Three.html

... may have more of an impact on your photography, provide more new challenges to master, and yield expanded horizons ... than more megs, or yet another lens.

I've personally used every one of the systems listed above, and can assure you they will be around working when my current digital cameras are in the dust bin of history :D

Just a thought based on experience, and not meant to be a lecture in any way.
Marc

I am sure you are right in this analysis. As soon as I have completed the lighting workshop, and have a much better understanding of what I need in a lighting rig, I am going in that direction in terms of funding yet other aspects of my hobby.

When I started shooting product shots of yarn for my daughter, I realized how primitive was my knowledge of such things. So I can't wait to understand how to professionally do this kind of shooting and then go find good used lighting gear to meet my needs. I look at what you accomplish and say, this is where I want to be. When I know how to get where I want to be, then pull the trigger on the lighting system and the product stands which make the whole thing work.

To me, this is half the fun with this hobby. Learning how to achieve what you see achieved by the pros (and Marc you are at the top of the list of the pros in my book).

Woody
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Well Jack,

it jut so happens that I was "accidentally" passing by a friend's place ( which happens to be a rather large camera shop) and he kindly offered to send my M8 off to Leica and swap me into a demo M8 of his ..so I am happy to have one back soon..also looked at a 40mmfrom 'Voigtlander' which woudl give me my favourite 50 length ..nearly..
sadly he reckons teh cost of fixing teh 35 lux isnt orth the effort..:(

as for the Phase - well still waiting for you know who to get back to me on prices.. :)

pete
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Woody - my daughter ( after she had stopped laughing) suggested that all I had to do was place the strap over my neck - rather than shoulder.

As you can imagine I really thanked her for her advice! :)
 
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